1.5 Impression, - discuss, post opinions - |
1.5 Impression, - discuss, post opinions - |
1 Oct 2009, 2:45
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#1
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Group: Project Leader Posts: 892 Joined: 8 June 2009 From: Cynopolies Member No.: 97 |
Since there is no topic like this opened yet, i'll be the first to post. Discuss opinions about 1.5, what you like, what you don't like etc. I'll go first as i'm the topic starter .
After playing a few days of rotr 1.5 here is my view of it. 1. Tier system - while the whole tier system is really interesting i find some of the ingame aspects a bit odd, and some really odd. - the current defense tier system feels really strange imo - the usa protector requires tier 2 while the firebase tier one. what is the point of the howitzer upgrade with this system. Imo the protector should be the T1 defense, while the firebase the T2 one, as it can garrison 4 infantry and upgrade with the howitzer and all of this without any power req. The Tower Component system also feels really odd - imo the RPG tower should be T1 and tesla/air raid sirene ones T2. - the MBT system also feels out of place and way to RA3-ish. 2. USA Detention Camp - i dunno exactly what plan's are for this structure, but it's current design is the oddest one ingame. A jail that can research high tech upgrades... ? I know realism is not something rotr aim's for, but then again what is the difference between a jail that researches advanced technologies and a tomahawk launcher that launches tomahawk axes ? . The design looks good enough to get renamed at least - maybe rename the Detention Camp to - Tech Center or something ( even research centers have defense fences and guard towers ). 3. USA Firebase howitzer - the thing looks big and bad enough to make even the mighty inferno cannon cry. But currebtly it has a really low range/damage and radius damage. Imo the howitzer should gain as much range as the infenro cannon, but at a lower ROF. Currently it's just to big, and does to little. It's like an overlord that fires scorpion shells. 4. Some designs - while some units ingame looks really awsome, and some redesigns are really cool, other suffer from old looking/EA shity job designs imo. - while the new paladin feels better than the old one, compaired to the crusader it looks like a box on treads. It's suppose to be a heavy armored tank, yet it's the same size as the crusader, and looks alot lighter. If it wasn't for the treads side covers, the paladin could just as well be the crusader mk2 and the new crusader would be the paladin. It has 4 treads, it looks alot heavyer, and the design is alot more high tech than the paladin box on treads design. - the Chaparral looks like a black dot on a white sheed. With newer designs aimed at AA combat like the THAAD launcher or the ADATS system, the chaparral really looks absolite, ugly and out of place with the modern and even a bit futuristic design of the current usa faction. - with the new design/texture detail on the russian barracks and airfield, i couldn't help realising that some of the russian buildings really need some loving - russian CC, Radar and Warfactory. There skin simply looks bland, and the models look highly simplistic. - Chinese Battlemater - the mg on the turret looks really ugly. While the model got a improved design, that mg looks like crap ( because it's EA's crap ). - Chinese Propaganda Tower - with the new redesign of the chinese defenses, the prop tower is starting to look really old and bland. Needs some loving to, and probably some visual addons once the subliminal messaging is done - like additional patriotic flags on it or stuff like that. 5. I miss the Helix - i personaly was really dissapointed to see the helix out again. While the han is probably one of the coolest gunships in any ZH mod ( and the flamer addon is really great ), the helix had it's coolnes factor as well . 6. Cobra Gunship - while the cobra was one of my fav gunship designs, i really think it's a bit to old for RotR. Again, i'm not a big fan of realism and it's not why i don't like it in rotr, but with such talented team members i really can't understand why not create a new cool/modern/bit futuritic design for it, and use a 40+ years old design. 7. Nighthawk bomber - again, with so many new design possibilites, i simply cannot understand why keep this crapy old plane. It just looks bad, and feels out of place with so omany other design possibiltes, that would be more modern and more in touch with the RotR timeline. 8. Cool new stuff : - the Crusader mk 2 is really cool, although the locomotor type upg system feels a bit buggy as it starts with bouth upgrades 'not researched' and only once you chose one status the upgrades become - one active and one unactive. - The Osprey - really great model and skin job on this one. - The black hawk - again great job on it ( ignoring the small copy/paste errors we all know of ). - The new Raptor model and skin. - The new chinese defenses and nuke cannon, as well as the flame upg for khan. - The new Russian sentinel and airfield. - nuke cannon and tomahawk new working systems. - new AI . - new maps - especialy the waterfall one from the video feed. Awsome detail job on it. Final words : RotR imo has a great potential, but at it's current state feels and looks way to much like vanila generals - in terms of the old faction that is. I know it's to early to talk about it, but the thing is, the stuff in 1.5 might just as well make it in 2.0 , so my point is - add alot of new designs and mechanics - scrap almost everything EA used/did, and get as far away from the generals style as possible ( like using really old crapy techs with newer weapon warheads - like the cobra and chaparral ). At least this is how i see it. Imo the current rotr might just as well pass as a different view of shockwave, but instead of new generals it adds new factions. Feels to much like a addon made by EA, and to litle like a true stand alone ( gameplay wise not game wise ) mod. Again this is my personal opinion. Feel free to comment on it, or post your own. It's after all the point of this topic. Anubis out. This post has been edited by Anubis: 1 Oct 2009, 2:51 |
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1 Oct 2009, 2:59
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#2
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BANNED Group: Members Posts: 728 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: Spain Member No.: 48 |
QUOTE A jail that can research high tech upgrades... ? and a nuclear power plant able to research black napalm is normal? QUOTE - Chinese Battlemater - the mg on the turret looks really ugly. While the model got a improved design, that mg looks like crap ( because it's EA's crap ). yeah, that hit me too, while the battlemaster looks better, its looks worst than the other main battletanks, but then, for the other side it hit me the china units are suppose to be spamed, so it looking more bland actually has a funtion(i mean, how many polygons are in the mg turret of the Kodiak compared to the rest of the tank?) QUOTE Nighthawk bomber - again, with so many new design possibilites, i simply cannot understand why keep this crapy old plane. It just looks bad, and feels out of place with so omany other design possibiltes, that would be more modern and more in touch with the RotR timeline. the F117 is kinda a icon of US, even in reality, and like the cobra it looks freaking cool so why not? -------------------- |
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1 Oct 2009, 4:20
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#3
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Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 13 August 2009 From: USA Member No.: 345 |
Crusader:
looks like: therefore: (Mind the turret) Other notes: -Chem suits don't seem very useful... yet -Blackhawks <3 -Crusaders look awesome now (explained above) -Jail = Technology lolwut -Troop crawler still looks bland... well, that's just my opinion -China infantry & USA infantry should have better looking default skins (note: I put custom skins on the infantry cause it looks... well, bland←Still my opinion btw) -Cobra is major fun -I miss the Littlebird -But cobras are still fun -They should put some type of turret base looking thing on the un-upgraded firebase instead of just a black hole -Want moar better voice acting on Blackhawk PLZ Overall: 4.5/5 This post has been edited by KILL: 1 Oct 2009, 4:30 |
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1 Oct 2009, 13:51
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#4
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Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 7 June 2009 Member No.: 65 Projects: SWR Productions |
and a nuclear power plant able to research black napalm is normal? Well it certainly makes more sense than a jail. As I have an insider's view on development, 1.5 doesn't really feel "much" to me, but I do have some opinions. 1.5 just doesn't seem to add that much, most "new" stuff are just remodels of old units, including the Osprey. It's still practically the same. Yes, there's this new tech tier thing, but what you're caring here are the units you're using, not the structures you're building. The tech tree is screwed here and there. China is severely limited, and MBTs in general aren't as useful as they ought to be, now that they require teching. Blackhawks are nice and all, but could be better implemented. They don't actually fill in a required role. It does exactly what the Osprey can (ignoring bugs). Starting with 8 (practically useless) Rangers makes its price high, unsuited for an early game unit. The minigun also discarded its fearsome reputation to become a peashooter. So while I love the idea of a Blackhawk, it just needs to be actually useful. T1 AA units are also too weak, especially the Gattling Tank. I do recomment buffing the GATTLING damage it and the Tunguska uses against vehicles and structures, it requires more umph. Model quality and visual remains excellent, and that does make it up somewhat. One of my favourite new additions is the Crusader. It just looks and feels awesome. The barrel does spoil it a little, however. Hopefully, bugs get ironed out quickly, because having Blackhawks transport vehicles is simply weird. |
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1 Oct 2009, 15:59
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#5
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Kitteh Group: Legend Posts: 590 Joined: 31 May 2009 From: Northern Ireland Member No.: 6 Projects: SWR Productions |
The tech tree is screwed here and there. China is severely limited, and MBTs in general aren't as useful as they ought to be, now that they require teching. T1 AA units are also too weak, especially the Gattling Tank. I do recomment buffing the GATTLING damage it and the Tunguska uses against vehicles and structures, it requires more umph. I fail to see how tanks are worse, even with the tech requirement, as their natural counter - missile infantry - was made weaker, having a reduced rate of fire. Gattling Tanks doing "more" (what's more?) GATTLING damage would make them even stronger against infantry. In addition, I don't see the point of making a Tank Hunter/Gattling Tank combo any stronger if you think there is a problem with the practical applications of the game's MBTs. The strength of Paladins, the damage output/survivability of air units, their counters, the Russian Supply Truck rush/War Factory/Barracks camp, and the lack of micro-intensive units in general, are the main issues for me so far. -------------------- |
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1 Oct 2009, 16:16
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#6
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Forum Green Group: Legend Posts: 1350 Joined: 4 June 2009 From: Netherlands Member No.: 17 Projects: SWR Productions |
^ Which is why I prefer the current USA faction, as it's the most micro intensive one out there.
If you forget the Paladin, that is. -------------------- |
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1 Oct 2009, 16:57
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#7
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Group: Members Posts: 195 Joined: 6 June 2009 From: Germany Member No.: 26 Projects: ShockWave Tester Mindfuck of the month: Casimir effect |
I have the feeling that it all comes down to "who has the biggest army" in Rotr. The graphics are nice but the gameplay is just not very appealing to me.
-------------------- And you feel a sudden chill How do you do? My name is Trouble I'm coming for the kill... And you know I will |
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1 Oct 2009, 20:37
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#8
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Kitteh Group: Legend Posts: 590 Joined: 31 May 2009 From: Northern Ireland Member No.: 6 Projects: SWR Productions |
Compare ShockWave 0.8 with the current internal beta of ShockWave, Erik. That is the position ROTR is now in. Balance and gameplay wise the mod is still in its infancy.
I do agree with you on the "biggest army wins" gameplay, though. Player skill doesn't have the same impact as it does in Generals/Zero Hour/ShockWave. -------------------- |
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1 Oct 2009, 21:32
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#9
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Gamer Girl Group: Legend Posts: 3808 Joined: 19 June 2009 From: Disboard Member No.: 182 Friendly Freelancer |
That problem exists everywhere. Units who lack special abilities or effects are not quite effective micro'd because it does not matter if you select them single handly or not. I mean, look at China: China IS a spam faction, most units have next to no special abilities (ground forces) so that is quite ok. Then look at Russia: cheap infantry, big vehicles with more firepower than other factions at a higher price, designed for 1v1 to win, however in a 1v2 they loose normally, so you still need to buy more of them. Then look at last at the USA: the USA units have nice effects or abilities to more than compensate their firepower which is lower than the same money worth of other factions units, but their airforce is uber and can be build way sooner.
Result: only the USA are atm supposed for microing, China not and Russia partly. This might be a bit easy taken from my side, but I believe strongly the team can and will fix issues. This post has been edited by KamuiK: 1 Oct 2009, 23:15 |
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1 Oct 2009, 22:42
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#10
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Group: Members Posts: 211 Joined: 16 August 2009 Member No.: 356 l33t |
i'm with kamuik on the micro stuff
also i really enjoyed the hans ability to get the flamethrowers, no more using that early game generals point for the nuclear stuff for me anymore, but what should i do with it? overlords? |
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1 Oct 2009, 22:50
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#11
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Group: Dev. Team Posts: 276 Joined: 10 June 2009 From: Austria Member No.: 123 |
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2 Oct 2009, 0:46
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#12
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Group: Dev. Team Posts: 838 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: Southeastern USA Member No.: 47 |
Since there is no topic like this opened yet, i'll be the first to post. Discuss opinions about 1.5, what you like, what you don't like etc. I'll go first as i'm the topic starter . After playing a few days of rotr 1.5 here is my view of it. 1. the MBT system also feels out of place and way to RA3-ish. Actually I thought the tier system from RA3 was one of the better things about that game. 2. USA Detention Camp - i dunno exactly what plan's are for this structure, but it's current design is the oddest one ingame. A jail that can research high tech upgrades... ? I know realism is not something rotr aim's for, but then again what is the difference between a jail that researches advanced technologies and a tomahawk launcher that launches tomahawk axes ? . The design looks good enough to get renamed at least - maybe rename the Detention Camp to - Tech Center or something ( even research centers have defense fences and guard towers ). I thought the same thing too...probably rename the Detention Camp to Advanced Training Center or something like that. 5. I miss the Helix - i personaly was really dissapointed to see the helix out again. While the han is probably one of the coolest gunships in any ZH mod ( and the flamer addon is really great ), the helix had it's coolnes factor as well . Fear not...the Helix will be returning to one of the Chinese subfactions in v2.0. 4. Some designs - while some units ingame looks really awsome, and some redesigns are really cool, other suffer from old looking/EA shity job designs imo. - while the new paladin feels better than the old one, compaired to the crusader it looks like a box on treads. It's suppose to be a heavy armored tank, yet it's the same size as the crusader, and looks alot lighter. If it wasn't for the treads side covers, the paladin could just as well be the crusader mk2 and the new crusader would be the paladin. It has 4 treads, it looks alot heavyer, and the design is alot more high tech than the paladin box on treads design. - the Chaparral looks like a black dot on a white sheed. With newer designs aimed at AA combat like the THAAD launcher or the ADATS system, the chaparral really looks absolite, ugly and out of place with the modern and even a bit futuristic design of the current usa faction. 6. Cobra Gunship - while the cobra was one of my fav gunship designs, i really think it's a bit to old for RotR. Again, i'm not a big fan of realism and it's not why i don't like it in rotr, but with such talented team members i really can't understand why not create a new cool/modern/bit futuritic design for it, and use a 40+ years old design. 7. Nighthawk bomber - again, with so many new design possibilites, i simply cannot understand why keep this crapy old plane. It just looks bad, and feels out of place with so omany other design possibiltes, that would be more modern and more in touch with the RotR timeline. The new Crusader is the same size as the old one, and I think the new Paladin is a big improvement in the looks department. As for the Chaparral and the Nighthawk, I do agree with you. The Chaparral makes the most sense because in the lore it's actually fires AIM-120s instead of Sidewinders, thus making it closer to the SLAMRAAM concept. The SLAMRAAM system was mounted on a HMMWV, so I guess the Chaparral chassis was used to distinguish it from the other HMMWV based vehicles in game. Note that the AH-1Z Viper upgrade for the Cobra was just introduced (production of new airframes will run until 2018), so the appearance of the Cobra isn't too far fetched. -------------------- "No bastard ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb bastard die for his country."-- George S. Patton
Resquiescat in pace, CommanderJB 1991-2009 |
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2 Oct 2009, 1:32
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#13
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Gamer Girl Group: Legend Posts: 3808 Joined: 19 June 2009 From: Disboard Member No.: 182 Friendly Freelancer |
Hm, afaik the Frogfoot is a VERY old unit too, as are most chinese vehicles, and yet they coexist with Golems, Sentinels, Overlords, ECM tanks and Tesla weaponry. I see no problem in the Nighthawk and Chapparel, when the lore is solid.
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2 Oct 2009, 1:40
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#14
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Officer of the European Continental Army Group: Members Posts: 2351 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: England, Great Britain Member No.: 71 Community Manager at Nexus Mods |
I have to say I find a helicopter with flame-throwers a bit odd.
I know someone is going to say about hover tanks and such, but serious. Flame weapons from the air that aren't projectiles seems wrong. Most other slightly weird things are fairly practical in essence, but I doubt this has ever even been considered to hold and kind of tactical advantage. Just my opinion on it though.... Only other thing that confused me was that the crusader still leaves track marks in hover mode. -------------------- |
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2 Oct 2009, 3:26
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#15
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BANNED Group: Members Posts: 728 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: Spain Member No.: 48 |
I have to say I find a helicopter with flame-throwers a bit odd. not directly at you, but just raising a point just think the han is flying low -------------------- |
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2 Oct 2009, 4:40
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#16
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Group: Members Posts: 846 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: England UK Member No.: 80 Forum Mechanic |
Awesome picture id like to see that in a mod watercraft that shoot fire sweeeet.
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2 Oct 2009, 5:02
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#17
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League is Life Group: Tester Posts: 748 Joined: 14 June 2009 From: America Member No.: 153 |
I did not expect much
I Guess it will be Ra3 like. But should it be the MBT still useless being tier unit. Tanks in ra3 where not imbalanced but still rather good. Just my opinion on that matter |
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2 Oct 2009, 6:01
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#18
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Hardly Diplomatic Group: Legend Posts: 1468 Joined: 31 May 2009 From: Brazil Member No.: 4 Projects: Retired |
Awesome picture id like to see that in a mod watercraft that shoot fire sweeeet. If you play Roman and Greek era RTSes with naval combat there's plenty to please you. -------------------- |
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2 Oct 2009, 6:19
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#19
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Group: Members Posts: 22 Joined: 13 August 2009 From: USA Member No.: 345 |
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2 Oct 2009, 9:17
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#20
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Hardly Diplomatic Group: Legend Posts: 1468 Joined: 31 May 2009 From: Brazil Member No.: 4 Projects: Retired |
Exactly. That was the finest way to put an enemy vessel out of action at the time.
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2 Oct 2009, 10:35
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#21
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Group: Members Posts: 227 Joined: 7 June 2009 Member No.: 65 Projects: SWR Productions |
I fail to see how tanks are worse, even with the tech requirement, as their natural counter - missile infantry - was made weaker, having a reduced rate of fire. Gattling Tanks doing "more" (what's more?) GATTLING damage would make them even stronger against infantry. In addition, I don't see the point of making a Tank Hunter/Gattling Tank combo any stronger if you think there is a problem with the practical applications of the game's MBTs. The strength of Paladins, the damage output/survivability of air units, their counters, the Russian Supply Truck rush/War Factory/Barracks camp, and the lack of micro-intensive units in general, are the main issues for me so far. Tanks are worse because there is simply not much incentive to build them. Why Kodiak when you can Hokum? Why Crusader when you can airwhore? Why Battlemaster when... wait you'd be dead already. Make GATTLING do better against structures and vehicles. It only makes sense, and I have experimented with that before, and it works fine. Look at it this way, in ZH, Quad + RPG is not problematic, well I think anyway, even though Quads deal lots of damage against vehicles and structures. Gatt + TH is also quite slow, compared to BMPs and USA aircraft. I'm not sure if it matches up against other factions, because frankly I just don't feel like playing ROTR online. And yea, Russian Supply Trucks are ridiculous. Compare ShockWave 0.8 with the current internal beta of ShockWave, Erik. That is the position ROTR is now in. Balance and gameplay wise the mod is still in its infancy. Just because your previous project has a crappy first release balance and gameplay doesn't give you an excuse to do the same in your next project. Your aim is to do better, and by balance, what I mean is just basic balance. It's especially important now that the ZH community is much smaller than those days, you just don't want to drive off people. |
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3 Oct 2009, 16:41
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#22
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Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: Hong Kong, China Member No.: 40 Projects: ROTR Tester |
Woah guys, everyone has their own perspective and each of them have their own merit. If I recall correctly, since RotR isn't taking any suggestions at the moment some points are moot although they show a more pressing issue. It's just simply not
I'm sure the Dev Team will be ironing these things out in their next patch/release as we get more feedback from the beta team and fans (who for once, are on the same page) Also: Supply Trucks? I thought it's been nerfed once already since that particular inccident where a bunch of my supply trucks ran down 2 Humvees upgraded with TOW rockets This post has been edited by Razven: 3 Oct 2009, 16:43 |
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3 Oct 2009, 18:29
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#23
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Twintails are eternal! Group: Members Posts: 473 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: Singapore Member No.: 74 Lurk, cleaned and mounted. |
Also: Supply Trucks? I thought it's been nerfed once already since that particular inccident where a bunch of my supply trucks ran down 2 Humvees upgraded with TOW rockets I thought the new AT infantry were engineered to kill tanks and not resources gatherers? O.o Shit, typo. This post has been edited by Destiny: 3 Oct 2009, 18:29 -------------------- |
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3 Oct 2009, 18:51
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#24
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League is Life Group: Tester Posts: 748 Joined: 14 June 2009 From: America Member No.: 153 |
Theres still no reason at all it can be that Imbalanced , you have to purposely do something like so
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3 Oct 2009, 22:35
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#25
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Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 7 June 2009 From: Hong Kong, China Member No.: 40 Projects: ROTR Tester |
The current argument is that there was and is no effort to do so until all the new General specific faction stuff is done along with the ECA and GLA stuff since there's no point in doing so since the whole playing field is going to change with each major release. However, the counter argument is that there's no value in playing a game where the units are completely unbalanced to the point where some people may not see the point in playing at all.
I cannot see why no middle ground and be hammered down to make some patch-wise balance changes to make sure the game can be played while still making progress towards major releases and new content. It's really a "Would you rather wait longer for a new release if we balanced it out" and whether or not the team agrees with the decision. |
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