Russia and the project of future tank (5th Generation) Options

[__CrUsHeR]

The experimental model of the tank will be presented in 2015, its serial production will start a year or two later. This development will be the first step towards the creation of weapons "unmanned", called "combat robots" that spoke the authors of science fiction works of the last century.

The military expert Igor Korotchenko explains what it is:

"It will be a tank equipped with a reinforced capsule that will ensure the preservation of the lives of the crew in conditions of combat operations real. Ammunition will be screened out of the capsule. At no tower and no one can be loaded cannon and fire automatically without man's participation. pointing the - operator will take care only to indicate the target and choose the type of projectile, designed to achieve the target. Therefore, it is a platform shielded completely unified and automated which will play a wide circle of missions in combat operations and is an industry first national armored. "

The expert Aleksandr Gurov believes that the wars of the future man's role is reduced to the mission of the organization. Therefore, similar developments are indispensable.

"In the case of an intervention from outer space or on the part of some foreign country, the defense should include both soldiers and robots, unmanned planes and tanks and other kinds of weapons.'s An imposition of the XXI century. Russia is a power that other states can not ignore and that has a wonderful community of scientists. The country should develop similar weapons. "

The existence of heavy Armata platform was unveiled last summer. It is being developed since 2009 and should become the basis of a whole range of modern heavy tanks, the tanks and infantry special vehicles designed to tank brigades and mechanized infantry. The development project is undertaken by Uralvagonzavod's largest industrial complex - Russia's military. Incidentally, today this same company also is developing two more combat platforms - and the Kurganets Bumerang. The Army will receive next year war material built on this basis.

The General Staff Gen. approved the program of creating a series of tanks, which could change the whole structure of armored forces. Developing tank designs - robots got to be done even in Soviet times, but after the collapse of the country all these projects have been frozen. Now scientists and engineers try to revive this promising idea, just as many other projects for the reform of the Armed Forces.

Russian President Dmitri Medvedev recently stated in college Defence Ministry that the reform of the Armed Forces had already yielded serious results - the combat capability of the troops, as well as the degree of equipment with modern war materials increased.

"In general, thanks to the reforms we have made new military, much better able to withstand the threats of our time and respond to potential threats that may arise."

The state has earmarked 20 trillion rubles, ie about 660 billion dollars for the rearmament of the Armed Forces until the year 2020, which will lead to qualitative changes in the equipment of the Armed Forces with new types of armaments.


Armata platform
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The efficiency of the vehicle will compensate the mega investment? Will be this the tank of the future? We'll know in 2015...

This post has been edited by __CrUsHeR: 5 Mar 2013, 12:35

[Dangerman]

I've heard the production Armata may actually be shown in September of this year (though not be in service until 2015).

[__CrUsHeR]

I've heard the production Armata may actually be shown in September of this year (though not be in service until 2015).

Yes, the platform Armata will be presented very soon, but an automated version only in 2015.

[Knjaz.]

Hah, I just discovered this forum. Never really digged SWR forums until now

Yes, the platform Armata will be presented very soon, but an automated version only in 2015.

Depends on the Kremlin, actually. I heard rumors they may postpone showing it to the public, but you can never be sure here.

I highly doubt that we will see a completely new tank family in 2015.. too early. Russian scientists and engineers are very good, but you see delays everywere, especially in projects that try to make a vehicle that can perform a lot of tasks. Remember the F.35 Lightning II.. huge budget owerflows and lag of delivery dates..
<...>

If anything, I wouldn't be surprised if the Armata tank ended up as a rare vehicle reserved only for the most elite of tank units while the broader mass of the Russian military continues to use/upgrade the less spectacular albeit still reliable T-80 for a while. That's kinda what you have to do if you want to run a large 'Eastern-style' military whereas 'Western-style' militaries tend to be smaller by comparison, but more standardised.

Unlikely. The whole reason of switching from Object. 195 to Armata was to reduce it's price. Basically, Armata is a downgraded 195 (with some tech. improvements that happened during the period) , that's why it's development took just several years. You can't create an entirely new vehicle in that period (and make it work well at same time).

Yeah, I wouldn't get my hopes up for the T-90 either. From what I've read, they didn't produce that many of them and the whole thing didn't really go anywhere. Kinda felt like an interim that didn't take off.

Actually, the Russian Army did purchase several hundred of them, and they recently developed a new variant of the tank. From what I hear they're mostly holding off until the new tank comes out within the next few years, though.

That's correct. There're different opinions within MOD, but it's mainly about should they just upgrade existing tanks while waiting for the next gen. one, how exactly should they upgrade em, or should they buy T-90's instead because some upgrade's costs almost matches the cost of new T-90.



Also, where did you guys get information for Armata being "unmanned"? It will only have an unmanned tower.

P.S. When it comes to wishes of implementing more unmanned combat vehicles into RuArmy, "Russian military experts" are the last people to listen, seriously. (although there are few decent among them, but they don't get into press that often, especially in resources like ngo/nvo, lenta.ru etc). There won't be any unmanned tanks on the battlefield (at least mass produced ones), until there will be a way to keep them operational in the (relative-) vicinity of nuclear blast, "heavy" EW environment, etc.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 15 Mar 2013, 7:46

[__CrUsHeR]

Also, where did you guys get information for Armata being "unmanned"? It will only have an unmanned tower.

P.S. When it comes to wishes of implementing more unmanned combat vehicles into RuArmy, "Russian military experts" are the last people to listen, seriously. (although there are few decent among them, but they don't get into press that often, especially in resources like ngo/nvo, lenta.ru etc). There won't be any unmanned tanks on the battlefield (at least mass produced ones), until there will be a way to keep them operational in the (relative-) vicinity of nuclear blast, "heavy" EW environment, etc.

Russia is building the tank at the base of the fifth generation of the platform Armata heavy terminating several completely new technical solutions. This combat vehicle will be remotely operated and fitted with a digital cannon.

Source (in Portuguese): http://portuguese.ruvr.ru/2012_03_27/69761981/

Note: Apparently the Armata may conduct non-manned missions being controlled from a distance, however will be able to be manned if the commander desired.

P.S.: The advantages of having a non-manned vehicle for high-risk missions in hostile environments or is something meaningful for the one who holds such an advantage, however remotely controlled systems are an open door for electronic warfare.
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Russia probably will not dismantle all its tanks T-80, T-90, not without first testing in a real war Armata performance, however some reserve battalions will probably be replaced, as well as special units should receive some Armatas, and gradually the new tanks should be used as the front line of RuArmy in the future.

This post has been edited by __CrUsHeR: 15 Mar 2013, 12:43

[Knjaz.]

Russia is building the tank at the base of the fifth generation of the platform Armata heavy terminating several completely new technical solutions. This combat vehicle will be remotely operated and fitted with a digital cannon.

Source (in Portuguese): http://portuguese.ruvr.ru/2012_03_27/69761981/

Note: Apparently the Armata may conduct non-manned missions being controlled from a distance, however will be able to be manned if the commander desired.

Well, the folks in that newspaper should use a better translating software then, unless they got personal spies in UVZ and know something that nobody else does, even MAATD (ГАБТУ).

Tank based on Armata platform will have unmanned tower with, obviously, remotely controlled gun/machinegun. Remotely, as by tank crew that sits in isolated capsule, not by some folks in some control center few km's away.

P.S.: The advantages of having a non-manned vehicle for high-risk missions in hostile environments or is something meaningful for the one who holds such an advantage, however remotely controlled systems are an open door for electronic warfare.
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Russia probably will not dismantle all its tanks T-80, T-90, not without first testing in a real war Armata performance, however some reserve battalions will probably be replaced, as well as special units should receive some Armatas, and gradually the new tanks should be used as the front line of RuArmy in the future.

No need to go through such stuff. MoD's testing programs provide sufficient amount of hard data on tank's performance - after them your average tank looks like it's ready for being scrapped (and that's before testing it's protection level by hammering it with various munitions). Basically, any normal army does those. Ofcourse, there will also be military operational employment testing and evaluation.

basically, there're 3 "tiers" of testing military hardware - development tests (during R&D process), state tests (the one I described above) and military operational test. (when army receives a first set of those vehicles and starts to operate them normally)

Also, about "real war" term - we didn't have "real wars" for about 60+ years, now. And, I hope, won't have in foreseeable future. But nevertheless, even if higher protection requirements (from mines/IEDs especially) were taken into account during the development of new combat vehicles, RuArmy still views large scale conflict between regular armies of first tier military powers as the most dangerous one, and prepares accordingly.

That's where one of Armata's requirements to be able to keep crew inside for 2+ days without leaving the vehicle comes from.

This news released today by the Vice-Premier Dmitri Rogozin confirms the intentions of Russia to sudden changes in its military doctrine, adapting to the 'methods of conducting combat actions without contact'.

The news:

Compliance with the state program of retrofitting the Russian Army must resolve, by the year 2020, the task of transition to the so-called methods of conducting combat actions without contact, in order to minimize loss of life, today said the Vice Premier, Dmitri Rogozin.

"We need to make our Armed Forces begin using the methods of conducting war without contact, to be faster than the opponent, and we can destroy it before it comes into his head the idea of ​​the possible destruction of our troops," emphasized Rogozin.

Source (in Portuguese): http://portuguese.ruvr.ru/2013_03_15/Novas-armas-do-Exercito-russo-possibilitarao-acoes-de-combate-sem-contato/

Rogozin in his repertoire. Last time he was insisting on hypersonic version of PAK-DA. Failed, though.

The guy does not determine the doctrine under which RuArmy will be operating, his job is to kick some sense into MiC. He's pretty loud, though, since the transformation from "politician" into "functionary" does not happen over night.

Does not deny the fact that there will be increase in PGMs in Russian arsenal, but in no way it means they're going to turn their ground vehicles into unmanned ones.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 15 Mar 2013, 13:45