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Darky
post 7 Feb 2014, 19:46
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China will not forget me!

Helix Electronic Warfare Upgrade

Description: The Helix is equipped with a very wide range ECM device that deflects most incoming missiles against both it and surrounding friendlies. It is also equipped with a jammer it can use to disable vehicles or buildings from a considerable range, but it cannot deflect incoming missiles when doing so.

Cormorant Gunship

Description: A more offensive helicopter than the Helix, the Cormorant is fast and agile. It lacks an autocannon but is equipped with a pair of unguided bombs that deal heavy damage in a large area of effect. It also carries two very long range anti-air missiles, which deal heavy damage to the target. The Cormorant can also pick between three field upgrades. Gains Horde Bonus. The bombs are not dropped below the helicopter but are launched forward at a range.

Cormorant Gunship Networking Upgrade

Description: The upgraded Cormorant Gunship can relay targets to nearby Cormorants (with or without the upgrade), which in turn can be targeted by the long range air to air missiles. Multiple upgraded Cormorants can create a chain. The upgraded Cormorant Gunship also gives the Propaganda effect (repair and fire rate boost) but only to itself and nearby Cormorants.

Cormorant Gunship Additional Pylons Upgrade

Description: The upgraded Cormorant can equip 4 air-to-air missiles at once instead of 2.

Cormorant Gunship Napalm Bombs Upgrade

Description: Upgraded Cormorant Gunships launch bombs that deal standard damage upon impact while creating firestorms.

Black Lotus Laptop Whack

Description: Black Lotus can whack enemy infantry in close range with her laptop, stunning them to buy time for escape. mindfuck.gif

Inferno Cannon Sustained Firestorm

Description: Inferno Cannons gain an ability which allows them to target a location, at which they fire a non-damaging but constant stream of shells (more like pellets?), keeping the firestorm going. (Firestorms are limited to 1 at a time so shouldn't create any balance problems)

Napalm Sweep

Description: A bomber almost instantaneously dives down from the top of the map, spraying the area below with hot napalm before ascending again. Rank 3, 1 level General's Promotion.

Missile Silo

Description: Hardened missile silos, designed to hold large missiles. Three kinds of missiles may be purchased, which are consumed upon use. Reveals itself on radar.

Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Description: An incredibly fast missile, the Hypersonic Cruise Missile deals heavy damage to units or buildings, but is very expensive. Built at and fired from the Missile Silo, it excels at destroying heavy ships and fortified structures. Cannot be shot down. Can be fired anywhere on the map.

Mine Deployer Cruise Missile

Description: Can be shot down, this average priced Cruise Missile has decent impact damage but a small area of effect. Its main purpose is to deploy mines over a wide area, heavily damaging any hostile units passing through. Can be fired anywhere on the map.

High Explosive Missile

Description: The cheapest of the three missiles available, also unlocked much earlier than the other two, the High Explosive Missile has a limited range. It follows a ballistic trajectory and therefore can only be shot down during its ascent or descent. Deals heavy damage in a moderately wide area.

Missile Submarine

Description: A small, tactical missile submarine that is incapable of firing Nuclear Missiles. It behaves similarly to the Missile Silo, but it is not revealed even when firing. It does not reveal itself on radar. (The missile launch will make its last location obvious though, which is revealed on radar.) Has no self defense besides the innate advantages of being a submarine.


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V.Metalic
post 8 Feb 2014, 1:53
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Helix Electronic Warfare Upgrade

Kinda, similar thing is planned, but not for China. And ECM on Helix, it would kinda make it useless against anyone other than USA and rocket infantry, as China and GLA more uses cannons than missiles.

Cormorant Gunship

Hmm... we dont have any attack helicopter for China planned. Bombs are Helix's thing, but we may use it if we will decide on having a Chinese attack gunship. If it isnt on purpose that they dont have any. For the upgrades, I am not sure about the first' healing restricted only to other Cormorants. And I already said about bombs.

Black Lotus Laptop Whack

8I.gif We will see.

Inferno Cannon Sustained Firestorm

Not sure how to explain the near constant fire from the gun, and if it wouldnt be too much to have a permanent firestorm. It would effectively block one path if you will use it, and restricting it just to one is uncodeable as far as I know.

Napalm Sweep

We already have planned a similar support power.

Missile Silo

It may be a similar thing with the Particle Burst. Especially the hypersonic cruise missile. It would pose a huge balancing issue, if not bing overpowered.

Missile Submarine

We have Nuclear Sub already, which is far better than this as it also has torpedoes for self-defense.


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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Darky
post 8 Feb 2014, 1:59
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Laptop Whack has to happen. mindfuck.gif

The Cormorant would utilize its bombs very differently, it would be like a bomber, but a helicopter, the bombs would be launched forward and not directly below, and since missiles are really mainstream, I'd say bombs are the most unique option. Helix could get something else perhaps?

Also the firestorm is limited to one already, try making multiple firestorms at once.

That's why it has the jammer as well, do you consider the ECM Tank to be useless? The missile silo is indeed meant to be similar to the Particle Burst Cannon but because of varied ammunition it is meant to function differently.

The Nuclear Submarine is great, but having this one as well wouldn't be redundant as it would be a missile silo on a Submarine, which has innate advantages over the land based counterpart, encouraging players to use the submarine.

Also, the Cormorant would easily be the most unique helicopter in the game (in a hypothetical case in which it is added) It would play the roles of both a bomber and heavy AA, coupled with the agility of a helicopter and faster than average speed. The networking upgrade allows the player create flying SAM sites, which can be moved around quickly for tactical positioning. The bombs are especially good for hit and run attacks due to their heavy damage and large AoE with slow reload. So don't think of it as a traditional gunship as it would be used very differently and with none of its roles conflicting with the Helix.

As for Cormorant-only bonuses, I didn't want it to replace Helix's Propaganda tower. Think of it as a part of the package, as relay alone isn't enough to make that upgrade worth it especially when the competition is basically double AA damage and firestorm-inducing bombs.

This post has been edited by DarkyPwnz: 8 Feb 2014, 4:31
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Rohan
post 8 Feb 2014, 10:07
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QUOTE (DarkyPwnz @ 8 Feb 2014, 6:29) *
Laptop Whack has to happen. mindfuck.gif


Won't that break her laptop. mindfuck.gif

If this suggestion is accepted , it can be used as a taunt and would be extremely funny.

This post has been edited by Dylan: 8 Feb 2014, 10:08


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Darky
post 8 Feb 2014, 10:54
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Weapons Grade Laptop Edges Upgrade is complete general. mindfuck.gif
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V.Metalic
post 8 Feb 2014, 21:02
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I havent said it would conflict with Helix's speakers, but that it is not possible to restrict the healing to just one kind of unit. All or none. Thats what I think how the code works, but I have a feeling it works this way. And maybe it wont conflict with Helix, but you are not looking on MiG. MiG is also versatile fighter, fighting with aircrafts just as destroying ground targets with napalm missiles. If Cormorant would be implemented in this way, it would make these two clashing. With the advantage of Cormorant being easily spam-able, while MiGs needs slots on airfields. If there would be some changes to its role, than maybe.

And how do you plan to limit the firestorms to just one at a time?

True. But still I see some problems with it, which I cant describe. Some feeling.

It would still make it too strong. You will just camp in your base, build these things en-mass, and just launch cruise missiles at the enemy. Maybe it will not be as strong as Nuclear Silo, but can do similar damage, or more critical if you will aim really well. And it may pose a similar code-problem with Particle Burst Cannon, not sure now.

No, Nuclear Sub wins on all fronts against your Missile Sub. With nuke Sub you will have a Nuke Cannon on water that can also defend itself against ships. What yours can do that will make it useful, which Nuke Sub cant do?


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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Darky
post 8 Feb 2014, 21:53
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QUOTE (V.Metalic @ 8 Feb 2014, 22:02) *
I havent said it would conflict with Helix's speakers, but that it is not possible to restrict the healing to just one kind of unit. All or none. Thats what I think how the code works, but I have a feeling it works this way. And maybe it wont conflict with Helix, but you are not looking on MiG. MiG is also versatile fighter, fighting with aircrafts just as destroying ground targets with napalm missiles. If Cormorant would be implemented in this way, it would make these two clashing. With the advantage of Cormorant being easily spam-able, while MiGs needs slots on airfields. If there would be some changes to its role, than maybe.

And how do you plan to limit the firestorms to just one at a time?

True. But still I see some problems with it, which I cant describe. Some feeling.

It would still make it too strong. You will just camp in your base, build these things en-mass, and just launch cruise missiles at the enemy. Maybe it will not be as strong as Nuclear Silo, but can do similar damage, or more critical if you will aim really well. And it may pose a similar code-problem with Particle Burst Cannon, not sure now.

No, Nuclear Sub wins on all fronts against your Missile Sub. With nuke Sub you will have a Nuke Cannon on water that can also defend itself against ships. What yours can do that will make it useful, which Nuke Sub cant do?


Please, test it in game, firestorms ARE limited to just one at a time in the original game.

The MiG is horrible at destroying other aircraft with its two missiles, and even then it would perform very differently to the Cormorant. I doubt they would clash, at least not more than Gattling Cannon and Assault Troop Transport (with the minigunners) clash with eachother.

Well the entire idea was that none of these missiles would deal any sizable damage to buildings. They're meant to be tactical weapons, destroying units and not buildings. They're meant to increase your unit efficiency, helping the battle become more tactical while reducing spam which only helps causing pathfinding crashes and making late-game devoid of strategy. Also making smaller units more viable when large ones will be destroyed just the same.

They're not meant to destroy buildings, same for the Particle Burst Cannon.

No it does not, the Nuclear Missile Sub does not have infinite range for two of its missiles (and the third, the HE missile will have a quite long range) and it is actually effective against buildings. It's an entirely different unit, it is basically a missile silo with the advantages of being a submarine. The Nuclear Missile Sub is naval artillery. Do you consider the Tomahawk Missile to be akin to the Particle Burst Cannon too? Because this is a very similar comparison, as the proposed Cruiser was meant to carry the Particle Burst Cannon just like the Missile Submarine.

The two submarines are not related, and they wouldn't make eachother obsolete in any way, shape, or form..
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V.Metalic
post 8 Feb 2014, 23:25
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QUOTE (DarkyPwnz @ 8 Feb 2014, 21:53) *
Please, test it in game, firestorms ARE limited to just one at a time in the original game.

The MiG is horrible at destroying other aircraft with its two missiles, and even then it would perform very differently to the Cormorant. I doubt they would clash, at least not more than Gattling Cannon and Assault Troop Transport (with the minigunners) clash with eachother.

Well the entire idea was that none of these missiles would deal any sizable damage to buildings. They're meant to be tactical weapons, destroying units and not buildings. They're meant to increase your unit efficiency, helping the battle become more tactical while reducing spam which only helps causing pathfinding crashes and making late-game devoid of strategy. Also making smaller units more viable when large ones will be destroyed just the same.

They're not meant to destroy buildings, same for the Particle Burst Cannon.

No it does not, the Nuclear Missile Sub does not have infinite range for two of its missiles (and the third, the HE missile will have a quite long range) and it is actually effective against buildings. It's an entirely different unit, it is basically a missile silo with the advantages of being a submarine. The Nuclear Missile Sub is naval artillery. Do you consider the Tomahawk Missile to be akin to the Particle Burst Cannon too? Because this is a very similar comparison, as the proposed Cruiser was meant to carry the Particle Burst Cannon just like the Missile Submarine.

The two submarines are not related, and they wouldn't make each other obsolete in any way, shape, or form..

I am not sure if it is or not. I am not a coder.

Given that we will be reworking the dogfighting, assuming that MiG will still be pathetic against other planes is wrong. We may change it that MiG will be decent with fighting Raptors. Or not. And that helicopter would be better at dealing with aircrafts than jet... dont you think its absurd?

Having a support power that isnt Generals power would be better option.

So you want a submarine which can fire on the enemy from the other side of the map, and than quickly submerge (all subs will have this), thus becoming hard to find until the other missile is ready, which can be launched from different place. Even RotR Topol-M has the weakness of being slow, and unable to hide. Even if Missile Sub would reveal its position by firing, but it can simply submerge, which takes few seconds but has a bigger chance of surviving a counterattack. And wasnt USA Cruiser meant for strictly support and AA role? I dont remember having whole-map weaponry.

I think that n5 would agree with me, but this kind of units, or buildings, unless properly balanced, doesnt have a place in Tidal Wars.


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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Darky
post 8 Feb 2014, 23:36
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QUOTE (V.Metalic @ 9 Feb 2014, 0:25) *
I am not sure if it is or not. I am not a coder.

Given that we will be reworking the dogfighting, assuming that MiG will still be pathetic against other planes is wrong. We may change it that MiG will be decent with fighting Raptors. Or not. And that helicopter would be better at dealing with aircrafts than jet... dont you think its absurd?

Having a support power that isnt Generals power would be better option.

So you want a submarine which can fire on the enemy from the other side of the map, and than quickly submerge (all subs will have this), thus becoming hard to find until the other missile is ready, which can be launched from different place. Even RotR Topol-M has the weakness of being slow, and unable to hide. Even if Missile Sub would reveal its position by firing, but it can simply submerge, which takes few seconds but has a bigger chance of surviving a counterattack. And wasnt USA Cruiser meant for strictly support and AA role? I dont remember having whole-map weaponry.

I think that n5 would agree with me, but this kind of units, or buildings, unless properly balanced, doesnt have a place in Tidal Wars.


And proper balancing is up to you. I already gave you my view on it, which is making them useful only against units. Also, by the proposed Cruiser I mean the one from my earlier thread, not the one you're actually adding.

No, I don't think that a helicopter dealing with aircraft better than a jet is absurd. The helicopter has two roles, which are bombing groups or structures and dealing with aircraft at very long range. It's an airborne SAM Site and it is much more interesting (at least in my opinion) than a Jet Fighter that is in inferior in every way to its counterpart except being capable of creating firestorms. The Cormorant is meant to be similar to a fighter in the sense that it would be faster than an average helicopter but also nimbler than a jet, it has its own niche and I don't think it is absurd in the slightest.
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V.Metalic
post 9 Feb 2014, 1:23
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So it is normal to you when you will see how a MiG-29 chases F-22 Raptor without destroying it, and than here comes Mi-28 Havoc and shoots the Raptor?


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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Darky
post 9 Feb 2014, 1:32
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QUOTE (V.Metalic @ 9 Feb 2014, 2:23) *
So it is normal to you when you will see how a MiG-29 chases F-22 Raptor without destroying it, and than here comes Mi-28 Havoc and shoots the Raptor?


It's not meant to be a Mi-28. It's supposed to look the part, and that's up to your imagination really, you're the designer. Also, since there are no MiG-29s in game, I'm assuming you're referring to a real life encounter, at which you're right but this is a game.

Do you really see nothing in the Cormorant that is a nice unique addition to the gameplay?

I was mostly thinking of Ka-50, which is indeed faster than your average helicopter and also more agile. "Generalsize"ing that could go a long way in terms of looks.

This post has been edited by DarkyPwnz: 9 Feb 2014, 1:35
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n5p29
post 9 Feb 2014, 11:10
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because I'm agree with V.Metalic points in general, I'll just give my 10cents here:

- having non-superweapon unit that have infinite range is just unfair
- what your gunship do already covered in our new helix
- talking about micro-balance at this point is kinda pointless


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Darky
post 9 Feb 2014, 13:20
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QUOTE (n5p29 @ 9 Feb 2014, 12:10) *
- what your gunship do already covered in our new helix


I tried to make it completely different but if you still think it is similar, I guess it can't be helped. Alright then.
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SeraphsWrath
post 20 Nov 2015, 23:32
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QUOTE (DarkyPwnz @ 7 Feb 2014, 19:46) *
[snip]

Missile Silo

Description: Hardened missile silos, designed to hold large missiles. Three kinds of missiles may be purchased, which are consumed upon use. Reveals itself on radar.


Hypersonic Cruise Missile

Description: An incredibly fast missile, the Hypersonic Cruise Missile deals heavy damage to units or buildings, but is very expensive. Built at and fired from the Missile Silo, it excels at destroying heavy ships and fortified structures. Cannot be shot down. Can be fired anywhere on the map.

[snip]


Both of these actually belong to Alexis Alexander. However, the Cruise Missile Silo was cut by EA because it wasn't completely coded by the time that they wanted ZH released, and the Hypersonic Missile is a Tier III General Power in Shockwave.
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Zeke
post 21 Nov 2015, 6:59
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http://forums.swr-productions.com/index.php?act=boardrules

QUOTE
3. Topic Post Dates.

If a topic has not received any new replies after a period of a month from the date of the last post then there is usually a good reason why and nothing more is left that remains to be said. We ask that you do not post in old topics for this reason. Breaking this rule may result in a caution or warning. Pinned Topics are exempt from this rule.


So stop it.

This post has been edited by Zeke: 21 Nov 2015, 7:00


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SeraphsWrath
post 21 Nov 2015, 23:46
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 21 Nov 2015, 6:59) *
http://forums.swr-productions.com/index.php?act=boardrules

(snipped from quote)
"...Pinned topics are an exception to this rule."


So stop it.


Is there any icon that shows which ones are pinned so I don't make this mistake in the future? Also, is there a PM-ing feature?
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Zeke
post 22 Nov 2015, 4:11
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QUOTE (SeraphsWrath @ 22 Nov 2015, 6:46) *
Is there any icon that shows which ones are pinned so I don't make this mistake in the future?




QUOTE (SeraphsWrath @ 22 Nov 2015, 6:46) *
Also, is there a PM-ing feature?




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