USA vs. Russia Symbolism, Pilots and husks Options

[Serialkillerwhal...]

The US has the ability of having veteran vehicles eject a pilot, allowing a US army to conserve experience.

Oh the other hand Russia has it's tanks and other land vehicles turn into husks, repairable and sent back with a new crew conserving resources.

Is this a symbolism of the US valuing experience and men while russia values cutting corners and treats troops as more expendable than materiel??

[SpiralSpectre]

How is Russia's husk recovery cutting corners? It shows that their vehicles are SO robust and well made that even after those are destroyed with the men inside dead, it can still be salvaged with the proper skills and tools if the commander acts quickly. Other than the Sentinel which blows itself to nothingness with a big explosion, probably due to the mystery fuel that's used to move the beast.

[X1Destroy]

Rather, i think the Russians want to protect the secrets of the sentinel by doing that intentionally.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 28 Oct 2012, 5:32

[ArsenalXA4]

I think it's more because the Russians never throw anything away, especially if it's still useful.

[Guest_Vintorez_*]

The US has the ability of having veteran vehicles eject a pilot, allowing a US army to conserve experience.

Oh the other hand Russia has it's tanks and other land vehicles turn into husks, repairable and sent back with a new crew conserving resources.

Is this a symbolism of the US valuing experience and men while russia values cutting corners and treats troops as more expendable than materiel??

I think you're reading into it way too deeply.

[Serialkillerwhal...]

Yes, Yes i am

[MARS]

For one, the Pilot mechanic wasn't our idea; it's been around since the original Gens. Back then, it did fit their theme of having high survivability for individual units, which is further evidenced by stuff like the Battle Drone and PDLs. The Pilot feature may not save the actual vehicle, but it saves its experience and even allows you to shift it over to an entirely different vehicle. It doesn't soften the economic blow of losing a Paladin, but the tactical blow of losing a full-vet Paladin. As for the Russians, you can of course think of this as a material>people type policy, but in-game, it represents their robustness (a vehicle may be incapacitated but not flat-out destroyed) and is, in a way, an opposite to the American idea of survivability, as you do lose the experience while you're able to recover the vehicle for the price of a single Conscript.

[SpiralSpectre]

Russia treats their troops as so expandable that they provide med kits for every single infantry, including all of their Conscripts. Reading into the story is a great thing to do as long as you aren't reading it wrong or only looking at things that might support your views while overlooking other facts that don't support your views.

[MARS]

On the other hand, one could also look at this from a more cynical perspective: The Russians basically go like 'here, Conscript Sasha, grab a bunch of bandages and painkillers and try your best' rather than having a dedicated medical corps in-game like for example the USA with their Ambulance. Naturally, this also stems from the usual gap between gameplay and story. Realistically, we could still expect Russia and even China to have some sort of medical corps in the same way as we could expect them to have knives and pistols even though you barely see any of them in the actual game due to unit roles faction variety.

[X1Destroy]

Right, listening to some boring propaganda wouldn't heal a wounded red guard and repair a damaged tank. But will somehow make a soldier fight harder, if he's a fanatic.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 28 Oct 2012, 9:06

[Dangerman]

On the other hand, one could also look at this from a more cynical perspective: The Russians basically go like 'here, Conscript Sasha, grab a bunch of bandages and painkillers and try your best' rather than having a dedicated medical corps in-game like for example the USA with their Ambulance. Naturally, this also stems from the usual gap between gameplay and story. Realistically, we could still expect Russia and even China to have some sort of medical corps in the same way as we could expect them to have knives and pistols even though you barely see any of them in the actual game due to unit roles faction variety.

You could say the barracks of China and Russia provide medical help since they also heal soldiers and for the GLA the only way they heal/repair is their tunnel system so I guess they have some medical supplies with them.

[tgn89]

İ really hope that the uUSA Will get their air suppority back the stealth bomber is very weak And thise hokums have evasive manovures wheres the King of the sky

[SpiralSpectre]

On the other hand, one could also look at this from a more cynical perspective: The Russians basically go like 'here, Conscript Sasha, grab a bunch of bandages and painkillers and try your best' rather than having a dedicated medical corps in-game like for example the USA with their Ambulance. Naturally, this also stems from the usual gap between gameplay and story. Realistically, we could still expect Russia and even China to have some sort of medical corps in the same way as we could expect them to have knives and pistols even though you barely see any of them in the actual game due to unit roles faction variety.

You can say that again. The gap between gameplay and story can be really odd sometimes. Gameplay-wise we even see the Conscripts continuously healing themselves over time, it's as if all of them have received medical training or something on how to use the med supplies. While lorewise they're a bunch of zealous if not slightly idiotic volunteers and apparently all the training they received was seeing a training video. Again the cost and logistical strain of providing such seemingly endless amount of medical supplies to every single infantry should be higher than actually deploying some medics on the field, which we don't see in-game.

And yeah I guess we can expect that story-wise Russians and even the Chinese probably have some form med corps on the field, like already said it's the same type they have in their barracks. They just don't show up in-game for gameplay related reasons.

And yeah I'll never understand how propaganda heals a dying infantry to being good as new. But I assumed maybe the engineers running the propaganda structures rush out and repair damaged vehicles and that's how propaganda repairs vehicles.

[MARS]

Bullshit non-serious handwave:
Propaganda puts Chinese infantry into a nationalistic frenzy reminiscent of the Japanese banzai charge, thus pumping them up with adrenaline which lets them ignore pain.
At the same time, the broadcasts include instant messages from the PLA tech support department which provide useful repair instructions to the vehicle crews.

[wargame10]

is it me or that guy loves USA so much


too much white knighting about the damn USA (lol i see some several threads that he complain about the damn planes and some other stuffs)



man this is just a damn game he needs some rest

[Serialkillerwhal...]

While lorewise they're a bunch of zealous if not slightly idiotic volunteers and apparently all the training they received was seeing a training video

What video? They're just given a rifle and shoved out of the barracks, the elite men with the videos come from RA3

At the same time, the broadcasts include instant messages from the PLA tech support department which provide useful repair instructions to the vehicle crews. aw2.gif

So THATS the subliminal messaging, i thought it just replaced the propaganda with a sergeant shouting at them.

This post has been edited by Serialkillerwhale: 28 Oct 2012, 12:12

[__CrUsHeR]

Bullshit non-serious handwave:
Propaganda puts Chinese infantry into a nationalistic frenzy reminiscent of the Japanese banzai charge, thus pumping them up with adrenaline which lets them ignore pain.
At the same time, the broadcasts include instant messages from the PLA tech support department which provide useful repair instructions to the vehicle crews.

An awesome viewpoint to interpret the subliminal messages of the Chinese, I never thought of this angle.

[SpiralSpectre]

Bullshit non-serious handwave:
Propaganda puts Chinese infantry into a nationalistic frenzy reminiscent of the Japanese banzai charge, thus pumping them up with adrenaline which lets them ignore pain.

Yet this is still the best explanation of that weird healing I have heard so far hand's down.

[TheCeLL]

Have any of you guys ever noticed... that sometimes... when a russian tank is destroyed, 2 conscripts come out of it? As in, their vehicle crew escapes?

And also, chinese propaganda could also help issue orders to the troops from the commanders instead of having to radio in the platoon commander who signals the rest of the fighting force. But massively obvious orders coming from a bigass blimp is pretty... noticable, for the other side.

[__CrUsHeR]

And also, chinese propaganda could also help issue orders to the troops from the commanders instead of having to radio in the platoon commander who signals the rest of the fighting force. But massively obvious orders coming from a bigass blimp is pretty... noticable, for the other side.

It depends on the way they are transmitted orders, if they are transmitted so subliminal as the game suggests only 'sucetives' understand the instructions.

[tgn89]

is it me or that guy loves USA so much


too much white knighting about the damn USA (lol i see some several threads that he complain about the damn planes and some other stuffs)



man this is just a damn game he needs some rest

everybody can love their factions in games but you're right he does love the use too much and i don't get it whats the idea with the symbolism

This post has been edited by tgn89: 28 Oct 2012, 14:22

[__CrUsHeR]

I guess the purpose of the topic by itself is already confusing and weird ...

I think I associate certain things related to the game mechanics with some real symbolism does not work, this is just a game that tries to resemble reality to some extent, many things do not have explanation and we should not be trying to understand your logic.

[SpiralSpectre]

And also, chinese propaganda could also help issue orders to the troops from the commanders instead of having to radio in the platoon commander who signals the rest of the fighting force. But massively obvious orders coming from a bigass blimp is pretty... noticable, for the other side.

But the Blimp messages are transmitted in Chinese.

I guess the purpose of the topic by itself is already confusing and weird ...

I think I associate certain things related to the game mechanics with some real symbolism does not work, this is just a game that tries to resemble reality to some extent, many things do not have explanation and we should not be trying to understand your logic.

IMO the original purpose of this topic is actually quite obvious.

And trying to understand other's logic can be fun.

[__CrUsHeR]

Understand the logic of why leaving the pilot of American tank, or because the leftover wreckage of vehicles Russians is something cool?

To me it seems somewhat logical, because the game needs to be balanced and factions must be unique, it is simple to understand, anyone here thinks a tank of USA no leaves wreckage? Or that Russian pilot can not leave the vehicle? These things are details of the game that are not related to realism, only gameplay.

In the end this is just my opinion, anyway is something open for discussion.

This post has been edited by __CrUsHeR: 28 Oct 2012, 16:27

[SpiralSpectre]

Understand the logic of why leaving the pilot of American tank, or because the leftover wreckage of vehicles Russians is something cool?

To me it seems somewhat logical, because the game needs to be balanced and factions must be unique, it is simple to understand, anyone here thinks a tank of USA no leaves wreckage? Or that Russian pilot can not leave the vehicle? These things are details of the game that are not related to realism, only gameplay.

In the end this is just my opinion, anyway is something open for discussion.

Dude just in case you missed the point actually I only meant that it's nice to consider other people's opinions. It's not like I was disagreeing with you or trying to start another argument here.

Nothing meant to anyone but these days people here often argue like fangirls in a pairing war. I sure don't want to unnecessarily add more arguments.

BTW lorewise US or any other faction's tanks might not be able to leave recoverable husks like the Russian ones cause maybe the Russian ones are only robust enough to leave recoverable husks.