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I'm sick with the obsession of RL stuff vs Generalverse, Like how some people just want real life history fact than the balance
OrikoMikuni
post 26 Mar 2019, 2:15
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When I read the Rotr wiki and this forum as well some people just said "X nations should't got Y units because real life reason". It's so annoying that I wonder why people always mistaken Generals are not an ultra-realism game! I know this is a meaningless rant but it is always annoy me too much so I decided to vent it out here. There should be a way to deal with this kind of mentality seriously.

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This post has been edited by OrikoMikuni: 26 Mar 2019, 2:17
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(USA)Bruce
post 26 Mar 2019, 8:38
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Thing is most of the story was written was Mars was actively engaged with the lore, so you guys have hindsight.
Plenty of his predictions came true, some did in lesser extents and some just didn't or were never meant to be like that. Instead they were a simpler way to write off somethings or simplify it to make sure the story doesn't write itself in a corner.

There are some flaws with for example two factions barely doing anything other than "Being Angry/worried" like China as tensions rise or just going madmax style raid and pillage for the GLA in Africa and sadly..only in Africa (so far)

There are past gla events that are outside of africa but they are not that important in the grand scale of things.

My point is that the main focus and theatre is in Europe, where we havce anti-ship turrets reused to pound advanced T-72 or T-80's (Whichever the Kodiak was)

On the bright side, the wiki is not as bad as it used to be, I remember a time when the US lore on the GREAT WAR ON TERROR "To protect Israel and steal oil" or something like that.Thank god its no longer written by 16 year old edge lords


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X1Destroy
post 26 Mar 2019, 16:12
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It could be worse. At least you haven't seen the ones who asked for insane stuffs like "Ultra hypersonic tank shooting mega particle laser" or "samurai cyborg dragons".



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3rdShockArmy
post 26 Mar 2019, 19:44
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Brother, read the lore and compare it to some things in real life, which have happened since the lore was written. Mars can get really spooky at times because some of the things in the lore have actually happened later on, after it was written. As for the Kodiak, IIRC, it was actually all of these (T-72/80/90) getting significant upgrades (which BTW is already happening with T-72B3M (we can expect T-72B4 in the future), T-80BVM and T-90M).


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OrikoMikuni
post 27 Mar 2019, 0:03
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 27 Mar 2019, 1:44) *
Brother, read the lore and compare it to some things in real life, which have happened since the lore was written. Mars can get really spooky at times because some of the things in the lore have actually happened later on, after it was written. As for the Kodiak, IIRC, it was actually all of these (T-72/80/90) getting significant upgrades (which BTW is already happening with T-72B3M (we can expect T-72B4 in the future), T-80BVM and T-90M).


I know plenty of thing are real but there are also some bullshit things like GLA aren't supposed to have air force or Chinese infantry need modern equipment and they shouldn't have Red Guard as Red Guard use extremely outdated rifle. That's what I mean here.


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3rdShockArmy
post 27 Mar 2019, 2:01
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If you ever decide to invade Russia, for the love of God, bring some warm clothes. We don't want you to blame the "evil Russian winter" when you get crushed, like everyone else who tried.



That's because RotR has a bit of a different concept. ZH had the concept of GLA having no air force, and Chinese having this '50s/'60s meta, with some late Cold War Soviet touch (Helix and the Mig (MiG 1.44 aka Flatpack), etc), while also connecting them to Red Alert Soviets, with the Overlord clearly being a reference to the Apocalypse tank. RotR built on this with Tank Hunters having flak guns clearly being a reference to Soviet flak troopers. Also, the coaxial rotors of the Han helicopter gunship is a clear reference to the Twinblade. These are just some examples. There are many more.

If we are talking about reality, then we should mention that Sentinels are definitely not a Russian thing. Russian military doctrine revolves around medium tanks with good protection. not the one that sacrifices mobility (that was the experience they learned during WWII). That was when they realized that heavy tanks are not as good as more nimble medium tanks (such as the T-34) when all factors are counted in. This became even more pronounced during the Khrushchev era when he went all crazy about advances in rockets and missiles and even went on to cancel all heavy tank programs (including the "Golem" aka Object 279 Kotin). So, Sentinel would have never been adopted by the Russian Armed Forces, simply because it's exactly the opposite to their low profile, lighter-than-western tanks, amphibious MBT doctrine, which has been kept to this day.

Back to China. As I said, at the same time, they wanted to keep China's meta, which gives them this special Soviet/Cold War era communist feeling. Also, they aren't entirely retro. They have ECMs (which in real life all other factions have too), EMPs, a bunch of tactical nukes (which again isn't realistic, because Russia has the largest stockpile of tactical nukes in the world, which was inherited from the USSR, but precisely this is why China has so many of them in RotR-verse, because of the meta I have already mentioned) etc. In real life, China actually has the least amount of nukes of all the superpowers. Just look at America. They are the only faction without nukes and they were the ones who invented the damn thing in the first place. Even Chinese Nuke Cannon and the Nukeneer were actually inspired by real-life American weapons from the 50s (again, we're back to 50s). Plus, IIRC, one of the Chinese Generals is getting the J-20, so they do have modern weapons.

As for the GLA having an air force, well, I wouldn't say it's a bad thing or even all that unrealistic. I mean, they control large swaths of Africa, where many countries have had primitive air forces, composed mostly of older aircraft. Plus, in-game, GLA AF is actually locked behind 3 GPs and limited to 3 airfields with space for 2 jets on each airstrip. So, it's still both the weakest and the least available Air Force of all factions (with the possible exception of ECA and that's only because they can build one airfield/deployment zone. We'll see what happens when the Goshawk gets introduced in the final version).

So, the point is, if you really want to play "realistic" games, there are a couple of other options out there. Because if we wanted to make either RotR or even ZH more realistic, we'd need to completely redesign the game. And the end result would be a complete disaster because the game would lose its uniqueness and would become so dull, that the fan base would probably die off in a matter of weeks.


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OrikoMikuni
post 27 Mar 2019, 3:18
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 27 Mar 2019, 8:01) *
So, the point is, if you really want to play "realistic" games, there are a couple of other options out there. Because if we wanted to make either RotR or even ZH more realistic, we'd need to completely redesign the game. And the end result would be a complete disaster because the game would lose its uniqueness and would become so dull, that the fan base would probably die off in a matter of weeks.


Pretty much agree to everything you said. Sadly I don't think some of those people will ever understand this and the whine of realism will keep plaguing the wiki and the forum endlessly.

With too much realism it will not become Generals that we all know and love anymore.

This post has been edited by OrikoMikuni: 27 Mar 2019, 3:21
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(USA)Bruce
post 27 Mar 2019, 7:05
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QUOTE (OrikoMikuni @ 27 Mar 2019, 2:03) *
I know plenty of thing are real but there are also some bullshit things like GLA aren't supposed to have air force or Chinese infantry need modern equipment and they shouldn't have Red Guard as Red Guard use extremely outdated rifle. That's what I mean here.


If those people actually I dont know... READ THE FREAKING LORE they would know that china does have a modern army, somewhat US levels (so is that ECA? ) but the army we play as is the traditional parade army (or at least that's my head cannon)


Thing is you can't have an amazing level of control over nuclear energy and have advanced electronic warfare/hacking technology while being in the '60s. So this is why I'd like to consider it a parade army (That's the first time we see those units) with the backup of a modern foundation.

Hence you can call in satellites to jam basically anything

As for the Sentinel, I'll have to say that if the Russians didn't have something bigger and stronger then the Chinese it would definitely be a letdown, however, while the overlord has better dps and mobility, the sentinel is more suited to well...killing overlords.



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X1Destroy
post 27 Mar 2019, 7:09
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Armageddon is here..............



Gameplay wise GLA having an airforce is a great thing. In old ZH nobody build AA vs GLA and in ROTR it would make an entire unit class become absolutely useless when facing them.

This addition brings in interesting tactical choices. If an opponent are stupid enough to invest only in bruteforce to stop buggies and quad he's going to regret it when Hooks and interceptors appear. You don't need to use the airforce to always win but when you do it is damn lethal.

About realism, it make perfect sense in this case because most of them are craps nobody use anymore. SU 17, really? It's not that far off when you can still see STG-44 in Syria.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 27 Mar 2019, 7:10


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