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Rise of the Reds Update: Red Aviation
wb21
post 29 Oct 2013, 8:22
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Another option would be giving the Frogfoot a rockets-only armament and reducing its rate of fire (or selective salvo fire like the ShW Hip), turning it to a true CAS unit akin to its CWC counterpart, but then the Hind could do pretty much the same job, so that might not probably work.

Also, nice work on the revamps, especially on the ski-jump ramps on the runways.


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Shatterfury
post 29 Oct 2013, 18:03
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QUOTE (D' WRTHBRNGR @ 29 Oct 2013, 10:22) *
Another option would be giving the Frogfoot a rockets-only armament and reducing its rate of fire (or selective salvo fire like the ShW Hip), turning it to a true CAS unit akin to its CWC counterpart, but then the Hind could do pretty much the same job, so that might not probably work.

Also, nice work on the revamps, especially on the ski-jump ramps on the runways.

In my opinion, nerfing the Frogfoot should be avoided.Offering an alternative that is almost as good so that the Froggie is a choice not a 'must have'.

This post has been edited by Shatterfury: 29 Oct 2013, 18:04
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Neo3602
post 29 Oct 2013, 18:17
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QUOTE (Shatterfury @ 29 Oct 2013, 11:03) *
In my opinion, nerfing the Frogfoot should be avoided.Offering an alternative that is almost as good so that the Froggie is a choice not a 'must have'.


Agreed, at the moment the Frogfoot is the unit in Russia's arsenal that can deal with large groups of units effectively, there should be alternative units for dealing with large groups of units


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Svea Rike
post 2 Nov 2013, 16:50
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Oh, I hope the next version showcases the Venom! I need to look at it.

..And, I would be interested to see what kind of explanation MARS can come up with for advanced power armor straight out of science-fiction.


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Nemanja
post 2 Nov 2013, 20:42
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QUOTE (swedishplayer-97 @ 2 Nov 2013, 16:50) *
Oh, I hope the next version showcases the Venom! I need to look at it.

Have you seen this ?
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Svea Rike
post 2 Nov 2013, 20:43
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I mean in her in-game form.


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Nemanja
post 2 Nov 2013, 20:48
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Well I think that update is not so far away.
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Aisukage
post 3 Nov 2013, 6:33
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QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 22 Oct 2013, 14:10) *
I liked the new Airfield, seems more real, the textures of Halo also became more beautiful. Good work.


I agree, the new Russian Airfield doesn't (no offense) look like a trio of garden shed attached to airstrips.

QUOTE (MARS @ 22 Oct 2013, 15:30) *
Actually, the Frogfoot is popular due to a number of wrong reasons. Granted, it's iconic and looks cool but from a purely functional standpoint, it is -too- essential to the way people play Russia; it turns the VVS Air Support unlock into a no-brainer choice which is exactly what we wanted to avoid in order to diversify things, hence why the changes that are in testing right now will be radical and possibly even controversial. Whatever happens to the Frogfoot will be part of a broad effort that also affects Russian helicopters and other aircraft in order to create a greater incentive for tactical variety. We did not make the Russian airforce a GP unlock just for people to pick it all the time. By design, Russia is actually meant to be able to win without planes, relying only on tanks and gunships and we are hoping to make this a real possibility so that using aircraft becomes an alternative, not the essential go-to method of playing Russia.


I don't use Frogfoots often myself as they do tend to get killed by anti-air rather easily if not handled properly. I find a mix of Hinds and Grubles does wonders for anti-air screening, and mix Hinds and Hokums for my airstrikes. Throw in a couple Hunchbacks, and load the Hinds and Hunchbacks with Infantry (Shock Troopers and Iglas FTW!) and you have a ready-made garrison team with Anti-Tank, Anti-Infantry, Anti-Structure, Anti-Artillery and Anti-Air all in one group.

I only use Frogfoots if I can either minimize Frogfoot losses, or maximise enemy losses (ie: dealing more damage to their wallet than the combined cost of three Frogfoots and a good dozen gunships)

QUOTE (InsurgentCell @ 22 Oct 2013, 17:53) *
I disagree actually. I use the tesla unlock quite often in multiplayer games. Frogfoots are quite expensive, and die easily to AA. They are really only effective against large clumps of tanks without anti-air. Tesla tanks are quite versatile, being effective against both infantry and vehicles, though they are also fragile. Especially when attacking, they are too expensive to risk losing one to AA, since they are so fragile. Not to mention Russia does not have Spectre Gunships or Recon Planes to distract AA with.


I use the Backfires or the FOAB plane to run distraction for Frogfoots, IF I deploy said bombers. As it is, I don't use Frogfoots unless I know I can shrug off the financial loss easily or will be costing the enemy much more than the cost of between 1 and 3 Frogfoot bombers and several gunships.

As for Tesla Tanks... deploy two Teslas, with a sizeable (and expensive as frag-all) escort of 4 Sentinels with warden missile pods. Trust me, usually takes a superweapon strike to deal with THAT mess.

QUOTE (Neo3602 @ 29 Oct 2013, 13:17) *
Agreed, at the moment the Frogfoot is the unit in Russia's arsenal that can deal with large groups of units effectively, there should be alternative units for dealing with large groups of units


The Msta Howitzer with Koalition upgrade makes for good crowd control, and (in numbers) a good area-denial gun, too. Trust me, a half-dozen dual-barrel howitzers pounding the back route into your base makes the other guy think twice about sending Burton through the back, even with armor escort.

QUOTE (Knjaz. @ 23 Oct 2013, 1:38) *
Quite the opposite - upped Frogfoots annihilate T1 AA, and are capable of taking down T2 AA as well, to a limit - especially when on the move. Their range allows them to do that.

Frogfoots are good against T1 AA units, and maybe stray AA defenses. But the USA Chapparel outranges anything skyside that isn't the Grumbles SA-300 missiles. The ECA Wotan Array makes mince out of anything that gets within range, and mixed with Harriers on air support, they're well-set. The Chinese heavy AA unit of choice is also harder to handle than you're implying, as anyone with a modicum of tactical sense would put MiGs skyside on air watch the moment to pieces were deployed. GLA Urals are hard to outrange when they come standard with stealth, so you'd find yourself well within range before your Frogfoots found out what dirt looks like up close. Finally, when playing against a fellow Russian player, Grumbles and Berkuts, with some Hinds tossed in for good measure, make mince out of anything in the air.


Wrong again - China surpasses Russia on the ground, in current public version of RotR (1802). Both in direct damage and AoE. (especially the latter).


Why match Tank for Tank? Mixed forces work wonders.

Hinds make mince out of China tank hordes, mix with Hokums, and Hunchbacks (Thermobaric Bombs make mini-tanks go BOOM!) toss in a couple Msta howitzers with Koalition guns, toss well with a set of Grumbles, and a trio of Sentinels packing Wardens, and the Chinese menace is fit for the junkyards.

QUOTE (Pepo @ 23 Oct 2013, 1:57) *
against china they lose.overlord +Hopper tank spam defeat anything on ground(maybe eca tanks with manticore do a little better)seriously, china is Op


China OP? I call bull. Again, why match tank for tank? Mixed forces are awesome that way.

This post has been edited by Comr4de: 3 Nov 2013, 9:22
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X1Destroy
post 3 Nov 2013, 8:07
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China OPness didn't come from theirs cost efficent spammy units. but from the Tactical Nuclear and Napalm Weapons. China is the king of AOE as of now. They are down right unstoppable if they are protected. And ofcourse, they will always be protected by large collumns of those spammy units.

For sure, Hoppers rushing at early game is devastating, but most factions can deal with that except ECA, it's a pain.

My suggestion on this matter of changing the frogfoot would be to restore the old stats of the MSTA in 1.5.

Sure they were real monsters back then, but right now when most AOE units was buffed, it shouldn't be a problem.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 3 Nov 2013, 8:08


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Comr4de
post 3 Nov 2013, 9:24
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Aisukage please refrain from making mult. posts when you can edit, friendly advice so don't worry too much 'bout it I8.gif


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Darkfire Angel
post 3 Nov 2013, 9:56
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QUOTE (Re_Simeone @ 2 Nov 2013, 21:42) *
Have you seen this ?


Giant pauldrons for the lose. As awesome as the picture looks it's totally impractical.


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Comr4de
post 3 Nov 2013, 10:07
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QUOTE (Darkfire Angel @ 3 Nov 2013, 2:56) *
Giant pauldrons for the lose. As awesome as the picture looks it's totally impractical.

http://youtu.be/Oz1E8iVyKao?t=11m2s

Looks alright when you get the silhouette.


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Nemanja
post 3 Nov 2013, 14:24
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QUOTE (Darkfire Angel @ 3 Nov 2013, 9:56) *
Giant pauldrons for the lose. As awesome as the picture looks it's totally impractical.

Um...It is a game.
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SpiralSpectre
post 3 Nov 2013, 15:16
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QUOTE (swedishplayer-97 @ 2 Nov 2013, 21:50) *
Oh, I hope the next version showcases the Venom! I need to look at it.

..And, I would be interested to see what kind of explanation MARS can come up with for advanced power armor straight out of science-fiction.

That's Iron Man. probably should be more or less the same "level of sci-fi" as Manticore. Tbh Solaris itself is probably way more "straight out of sci-fi" than any of the protocol units but nobody seems to talk about that.
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Nemanja
post 3 Nov 2013, 15:40
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I must say that I'm more anticipating what Venom Protocol brings besides Samus,
and how other,current protocols will be enriched.
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post 3 Nov 2013, 16:13
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QUOTE (SpiralSpectre @ 3 Nov 2013, 16:16) *
That's Iron Man. probably should be more or less the same "level of sci-fi" as Manticore. Tbh Solaris itself is probably way more "straight out of sci-fi" than any of the protocol units but nobody seems to talk about that.


Honestly i dont see how people think the venom is so much of sci-fi compared to other things in the mod, specially taking into account there are prototypes of exoskeletons today, i honestly will put the manticore more in the sci-fi stuff for the nanomachines alone


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SpiralSpectre
post 3 Nov 2013, 18:41
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^That's exactly what I was thinking.
QUOTE (Re_Simeone @ 3 Nov 2013, 20:40) *
I must say that I'm more anticipating what Venom Protocol brings besides Samus,
and how other,current protocols will be enriched.

Me too. Also anticipating how much (even) more ordinary the rest of the factions are gonna look comparatively after that. Not saying ECA would become OP or anything, only talking in terms of creativeness, diversity etc.
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__CrUsHeR
post 3 Nov 2013, 19:01
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Europeans are very good at designing great engines of war, the Venom as something experimental I believe it is feasible.


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Aisukage
post 3 Nov 2013, 19:36
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 3 Nov 2013, 3:07) *
China OPness didn't come from theirs cost efficent spammy units. but from the Tactical Nuclear and Napalm Weapons. China is the king of AOE as of now. They are down right unstoppable if they are protected. And ofcourse, they will always be protected by large collumns of those spammy units.

For sure, Hoppers rushing at early game is devastating, but most factions can deal with that except ECA, it's a pain.

My suggestion on this matter of changing the frogfoot would be to restore the old stats of the MSTA in 1.5.

Sure they were real monsters back then, but right now when most AOE units was buffed, it shouldn't be a problem.


Good point there. Is why I usually get my super up before the Chinese can employ theirs. Nuke Silos don't do much when there's very little (if any) power available. Or, if you're sneaky and can slip Jarmen Kell into the base, you can delay the launch constantly by building sniping... which (sadly) isn't available in RotR. Finally, a few well-timed Generals Powers can level said super before it can launch.

Best tactic is to spread your buildings out so a super strike can't hit more than one or two buildings. Combine that with concealed, or spread out secondary income sources (hackers/hack vans, supply drops, black markets, etc) and you can minimize losses easily.


QUOTE (Comr4de @ 3 Nov 2013, 4:24) *
Aisukage please refrain from making mult. posts when you can edit, friendly advice so don't worry too much 'bout it I8.gif


Sorry about that. I'll avoid doing so in the future.
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IPS
post 4 Nov 2013, 14:06
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QUOTE (Re_Simeone @ 3 Nov 2013, 15:40) *
I must say that I'm more anticipating what Venom Protocol brings besides Samus,
and how other,current protocols will be enriched.


Well, some of the additions will be extremely cool.


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Knjaz.
post 4 Nov 2013, 14:39
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QUOTE (Aisukage @ 3 Nov 2013, 7:33) *
Why match Tank for Tank? Mixed forces work wonders.

Hinds make mince out of China tank hordes, mix with Hokums, and Hunchbacks (Thermobaric Bombs make mini-tanks go BOOM!) toss in a couple Msta howitzers with Koalition guns, toss well with a set of Grumbles, and a trio of Sentinels packing Wardens, and the Chinese menace is fit for the junkyards.


I wasn't matching tank for tank, I was matching the full tech tree. For last year, I pick Russia when I want to play my favorite faction, and I pick China when I want to maximize my winning chances.

Also, would be nice to see you in our ROTR Skype Channel for online gaming smile.gif
(unless you're there already).


QUOTE
The Msta Howitzer with Koalition upgrade makes for good crowd control...


Are we playing the same game? Mass Mstas are incomparable with Mass Infernos, in any way.

QUOTE (Aisukage @ 3 Nov 2013, 20:36) *
Good point there. Is why I usually get my super up before the Chinese can employ theirs. Nuke Silos don't do much when there's very little (if any) power available. Or, if you're sneaky and can slip Jarmen Kell into the base, you can delay the launch constantly by building sniping... which (sadly) isn't available in RotR. Finally, a few well-timed Generals Powers can level said super before it can launch.

Best tactic is to spread your buildings out so a super strike can't hit more than one or two buildings. Combine that with concealed, or spread out secondary income sources (hackers/hack vans, supply drops, black markets, etc) and you can minimize losses easily.

Sorry about that. I'll avoid doing so in the future.


X1Destroy wasn't talking about SuperWeapons.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 3 Nov 2013, 9:07) *
China OPness didn't come from theirs cost efficent spammy units. but from the Tactical Nuclear and Napalm Weapons. China is the king of AOE as of now. They are down right unstoppable if they are protected. And ofcourse, they will always be protected by large collumns of those spammy units.

For sure, Hoppers rushing at early game is devastating, but most factions can deal with that except ECA, it's a pain.

My suggestion on this matter of changing the frogfoot would be to restore the old stats of the MSTA in 1.5.
Sure they were real monsters back then, but right now when most AOE units was buffed, it shouldn't be a problem.


All I'm allowed to say is that 1.85 Russia already became good in Crowd Control. On par with China, at the very least.
So it doesn't have that weakness anymore.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 4 Nov 2013, 14:51
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X1Destroy
post 4 Nov 2013, 16:06
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@Aisukage: I was talking about Nuclear Hans, Inferno and Nuke Cannons, as well as Napalm bombers. Not the Superweapon building.

QUOTE
All I'm allowed to say is that 1.85 Russia already became good in Crowd Control. On par with China, at the very least.
So it doesn't have that weakness anymore.


Well, that's good news to hear.


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Aisukage
post 4 Nov 2013, 17:08
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QUOTE (scorpio @ 2 Nov 2012, 2:38) *
okies heres today's RoTR Demotivational




QUOTE (scorpio @ 3 Nov 2012, 8:40) *
so here's today's RoTR Demotivational 8Isov.gif



QUOTE (MARS @ 16 Dec 2012, 5:52) *
Unlike in ZH, the Generals will actually get units that are squarely outside their doctrine, it's just that they'll be up to vanilla USA standard and nothing special. So yeah, Griffon will actually get the same Crusaders as everyone else. The ZH way of making the Generals 'unique' was basically to cripple them in areas outside their expertise and we ain't gonna do that. This also means for example that Ibrahiim will be a lot more interesting than Thrax who was basically just 'toxin everything - oh shite, a tank!'



QUOTE (Knjaz. @ 4 Nov 2013, 9:39) *
I wasn't matching tank for tank, I was matching the full tech tree. For last year, I pick Russia when I want to play my favorite faction, and I pick China when I want to maximize my winning chances.

Also, would be nice to see you in our ROTR Skype Channel for online gaming smile.gif
(unless you're there already).




Are we playing the same game? Mass Mstas are incomparable with Mass Infernos, in any way.



X1Destroy wasn't talking about SuperWeapons.



All I'm allowed to say is that 1.85 Russia already became good in Crowd Control. On par with China, at the very least.
So it doesn't have that weakness anymore.


I'm not on Skype, actually. As for what faction to play when... I play Russia and ECA because I like 'em both.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 4 Nov 2013, 11:06) *
@Aisukage: I was talking about Nuclear Hans, Inferno and Nuke Cannons, as well as Napalm bombers. Not the Superweapon building.


Against any of that... Hinds, Harriers, Tigers, Hokums, Hunchbacks, Skyshields, Kashtans, Chapparals, Protectors, Avengers, Grumbles, Twin Fangs, Urals, Stinger Sites... I could go on, but suffice to say that every faction has counters to these issues... just a matter of employing them. That, and employing Nuclear Hans and Nuke Cannons in large numbers is expensive, even before the Overlord escorts.




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Svea Rike
post 4 Nov 2013, 18:49
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Uhm, Aisukage, I don't know if this is the right thread...


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X1Destroy
post 4 Nov 2013, 20:04
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QUOTE
Against any of that... Hinds, Harriers, Tigers, Hokums, Hunchbacks, Skyshields, Kashtans, Chapparals, Protectors, Avengers, Grumbles, Twin Fangs, Urals, Stinger Sites... I could go on, but suffice to say that every faction has counters to these issues... just a matter of employing them. That, and employing Nuclear Hans and Nuke Cannons in large numbers is expensive, even before the Overlord escorts.


But they can kill a large groups of your units in a matter of 1 or 2 shots, and even if they die after that, it's still way more worth it.

One shot from a nuke cannon take out 5 kodiaks......you got the picture.

And did I mention that the chinese player can also do the same?

He can swarm the field with his spammy units to make sure that nothing can get close to his Nuke and Inferno cannons just like how you decide to counter him.

But, his units can inflict alots more casualties on you. And if you're Russia, you will suffer alots due to your units being uber expensive and still die fast to said AOE weapons. Economy is the key factor. Chinese units are way to cheap to replace while they are not lacking in terms of firepower.

And no, Chinese artillery units are the cheapest in the game. Inferno only cost 900 and it deal a crap tons of damage when in group of 3. And 1 nuke cannon cost only 2000, can destroy stuffs that is way more expensive than it easily, like Sentinel.

The only thing I could think of as an effective counter would be the Tomahawk, because it outranged any other artillery units.

Spamming choppers do not always work, due to twinfang and gattling boom boom boom insane firing rate. Since they're bullets, counter measure flare is useless.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 4 Nov 2013, 20:14


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