Suggestions by White Cat Options

[White Cat]

I'll be posting a number of suggestions to this thread to keep it organised. I'll be mostly stating what I find inadequate or broken in the mod. I love the mod and thats why I am taking the time to write this post.

General bug and feature request:

Mark individual dozers, and workers to their respective General. Say if I start as the Laser general and capture a super weapons generals dozer it gets confusing very fast. It gets more confusing with GLA as you use workers to collect resources. Retarded mod for example marks dozers as "Laser Generals Dozer" when you hover the cursor on the dozer.

If you upgrade your Col Burtons weapon and put him inside a USA battelsuit (the mech) it gains the weapon of a standard ranger and not the Awsome Col Burton action.

Guarding newer long ranged weapons (airforce general has its own, laser general has its own) seem to wander off towards the enemy at times (probably following a supply truck that passed by). I want them to stay behind my defense line and take out enemy artillery.

China has a serious advantage with assault infantry. Their range seem to second only snipers. The problem is their Line Of Sight. They can see or shoot defensive structures before the defenses can see them. China already has artillery so I do not see the point of mortars for china. Wouldn't they be better as GLA units? Just a thought.

You need to be a three-star general to gain snipers. I think US shouldn't have to wait that long to gain snipers the strategy center should be enough. Snipers are almost entirely defensive anyways (you cannot destroy buildings with them). GLA has Jarmen Kel so they get a sniper before the US rank-wise.

Armour General is pretty bad at defense due to stationary defenses occupying so much room. They should be 1/2 the size and 1/2 the power. Problem is if you have 4 of them holding a narrow passage and you loose one you pretty much loose them all.

Carpet bombing (either by china or the US) does not seem to deliver a good kick. Most targets survive it (good luck trying to take out a damaged command center with it). Also it lacks a proper area effect reducing its effectiveness. Consider if the target is placed horizontally and your bomber arrives vertically... 3 bombers would solve this issue. Might need to balance it by reducing the damage from individual bombs. Also consider adding fighter cover to the bombers (they'd merely be targets). In the case of laser general such a cover would reduce the efficiency of missiles for US generals if the right upgrade is purchased.

Laser general should also have flares. I know he has the anti-missile lasers (AML) but those are actually not as effective. Flares reduce missile efficiency by 50% so if your plane is shot 4 times (like with a patriot battery) only two of the missiles would hit (statistically). But with anti-missile lasers you are guaranteed of a hit of 3 missiles as the AML can only shoot one before being able to intercept another one. Of course alternatively you could increase the rate of fire of AML fire rate but I am not sure if that is a good idea.

Another issue is how attack buggies can knock out defensive structures simply because of their range. I suppose this may be a bad idea but how about adding anti-missile lasers to laser turrets. They'd slow down the damage taken from the attack buggies (they just fire far too many missiles and also work in groups with current AI). This would give player a little more time to take the buggies out. My problem with is laser turrets can shoot down faster moving missiles (like tomahawk) so it makes little sense for them to not be able to shoot smaller ones.

The Aircraft carrier strike planes do not benefit from the airfield upgrades like anti missile laser or flares. They should as other planes such as the B2 bomber does.

General's challenge related bug and feature request:
Several challenge maps have issues. I played most of these in easy difficulty for now to have a sense of the changes that they had. I know most of the items below have to do with scripting the individual machines and my guess is the team of developers for this mod simply do not have the time to deal with it. Lack of AI support for the three new generals could be the evidence for this.

There are very few challenges. There now are 12 generals plus 3 default sides making a total of 15 possible missions. It would be fun If the challenge was not so short. I would prefer to play against every general (even against the general I picked). Also I would want to play as one of the default sides. For example I really love the US mechs.

Chemical generals map starts of with an rpg trooper shooting your command center for a short while (throughout the intro it seems). Also the chemical bunkers are difficult to deal with unless you are US or China as you have no way to capture them. With China you can capture from distance with Black Lotus and with US you can capture with the use of Chemical suits and an ambulance. I suppose GLA lacks a way to repair (unless you use the new GLA dozer). Do those bunkers add to the challenge? They are a short mild irritation at best if you move your units away. A lot worse after a scud storm increasing its area effect.

Demo General challenge is exceptionally hard even at Easy Difficulty. This is because he starts attacking (with demo attack bikes) before I even build my supply center.

Stealth General does not seem to utilize any of the newer additions.

Air force general is always out of power as his power plants are not upgraded. Airforce general also lacks a war factory limiting his offensive capability (yes I know it is a legacy from the original game but might as well). Also the two anti-air guns (captureable by garrisoning) are too near the edge and they get destroyed pretty fast by stealth bombers. Putting them a bit closer to the back would allow me to build a defense in front of them to take the punishment.

Super Weapon Generals Alpha Aurora bombers get stuck in her base sometimes. Waypoints to land seems to jam them near the airport. Also the very map prevents her from utilizing the war factory or the barracks.

Laser general does not seem to utilize any of the newer additions.

Tank general does not use artillery or any other long ranged weapons making him exceptionally easy once you build that nice defensive wall.

Nuke general does not seem to utilize any of the newer additions. I am not too sure what he uses as I counter nuked him before he was able to launch a single nuke. Although I haven't seen him build any of the newer weapons. On that map the 4 nuke cannons that greet you are a bit dumb. If you destroy them the AI does not replace them.

I am yet to play a game against the infantry general. Despite finishing the game several times. I am yet to encounter this general.

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I have edited the post to clarify a few issues.

This post has been edited by White Cat: 24 Feb 2010, 0:39

[Pickysaurus]

Ok nice piece, but firstly, SWR don't take suggestions. Although you might want to mention these a bug reports.

As for as GC is concerned, there is no challenge for the infantry general and hasn't been since vZH.

In .96 the new AIs will be released, hopefully improving the overall experiences vs AI

[DELETED MEMBER]

If you upgrade your Col Burtons weapon and put him inside a USA battelsuit (the mech) it gains the weapon of a standard ranger and not the Awsome Col Burton action.

false, the model may be similar, but MechaBurton gets a explosive nade launcher and i am sure it does more damage in general
the standard ranger gets a flashbang launcher

[White Cat]

false, the model may be similar, but MechaBurton gets a explosive nade launcher and i am sure it does more damage in general
the standard ranger gets a flashbang launcher

I see. Well it looks similar then :/

I'll try to verify the problem with screen captures.

Full edit: Adding images.

First two images are without the purchase of upgrades. The two mechs look alike aside from the twin antenna and the rotating dish(?) on top of col. burton's mech

This post has been edited by White Cat: 23 Feb 2010, 21:15

Attached File(s)

 Exosuit_1.png ( 201.95K ) Number of downloads: 29
 Exosuit_2.png ( 181.5K ) Number of downloads: 30
 Exosuit_3.png ( 212.54K ) Number of downloads: 28
 Exosuit_4.png ( 240.84K ) Number of downloads: 32

 

[Alias]

The generals challenge maps have been revised for 0.96.

[Destiny]

Also Fai isn't in in .951, so you'd have to wait.

Stealth Fighters are made to destroy defenses and if those Flak Cannons get blown up, you're best off NOT garrisoning them at all unless you are a PDL-capable side.

There's a reason why Kwai taunts 'TANKS! BUILD MORE TANKS!', you know.

[Shiro]

Firstly, welcome to the forums. Second, SWRP does not take suggestions. But as Pickysaurus already mentioned, you may post bugs in the bug reports section. About the challenge, IIRC 9 missions is the maximum (has been some time since I last modded Z:H though). What I do agree with is marking Dozers and Workers individually.

About some of the challenges:
Chem: you can ignore the bunkers totally, they are just props. Trying to repair or capture them is a waste of time (except for Lotus who gains a little exp with that for no cost).
Demo: the map is bugged anyway, like the SCUD Storm counter for example. To fend off Terror Bikes, use a few rocket infantry, Terror Bikes come in groups and whenever one gets destroyed, the others rearrange themselves due to the script, giving you all in all 2 seconds more to kill them off. Really difficult are Topol-M launchers due to their extreme range. Use lots of combat helicopters in that mission and artillery against Stinger Sites, then you should win easily. Watch out for enemy flak.

Apart from that, ShW 0.96 should fix most, if not all, of the bugs possible.

[White Cat]

Firstly, welcome to the forums. Second, SWRP does not take suggestions. But as Pickysaurus already mentioned, you may post bugs in the bug reports section. About the challenge, IIRC 9 missions is the maximum (has been some time since I last modded Z:H though). What I do agree with is marking Dozers and Workers individually.

About some of the challenges:
Chem: you can ignore the bunkers totally, they are just props. Trying to repair or capture them is a waste of time (except for Lotus who gains a little exp with that for no cost).
Demo: the map is bugged anyway, like the SCUD Storm counter for example. To fend off Terror Bikes, use a few rocket infantry, Terror Bikes come in groups and whenever one gets destroyed, the others rearrange themselves due to the script, giving you all in all 2 seconds more to kill them off. Really difficult are Topol-M launchers due to their extreme range. Use lots of combat helicopters in that mission and artillery against Stinger Sites, then you should win easily. Watch out for enemy flak.

Apart from that, ShW 0.96 should fix most, if not all, of the bugs possible.

I know they are just props but if they get destroyed your base is gassed. Just saying that they may have some sort of a use or something :/

[White Cat]

Ok nice piece, but firstly, SWR don't take suggestions. Although you might want to mention these a bug reports.

As for as GC is concerned, there is no challenge for the infantry general and hasn't been since vZH.

In .96 the new AIs will be released, hopefully improving the overall experiences vs AI

No suggestions? I do not mind my suggestions to be never implemented would it be against forum rules if I make them. Most of my suggestions so far had been more or less bug reports/balance issues anyways.

As for bugs where should I post them? Would this thread be OK?

[MARS]

Easy, people. I just skimmed over that post and most of it isn't the garden-variety 'can you add unit X to faction Y' type of suggestion (which
we're not open for indeed). Most of these seem to be gameplay related and deserve to be addressed, like the one with the construction units.
Also, welcome to the forums.

[Pickysaurus]

I know they are just props but if they get destroyed your base is gassed. Just saying that they may have some sort of a use or something :/

Personally I blow them up and wait for the fallout to clear before expanding my base into that area... they are really useful against the AI (late game) as you can target them and take out at least half the attacking force in that area.

[White Cat]

Personally I blow them up and wait for the fallout to clear before expanding my base into that area... they are really useful against the AI (late game) as you can target them and take out at least half the attacking force in that area.

Yes I know. It isn't like I fail to win games because of it. I am the kind of a guy who allies 7 random hard enemies and plays on a 7 on 1 kind of game... Most of the time I play as random.

These bunkers have little purpose and don't really provide any worthwhile assistance. They do not offer a bonus either. Mild irritation... :/

[Pickysaurus]

It's just a feature that enforce the fact you are facing the toxin general.

[White Cat]

It's just a feature that enforce the fact you are facing the toxin general.

What do you have against toxins huh? Do you know what they put in food these days?

[Destiny]

...sigh, I can feel hostility and deliberate offtopicness from that post, or the above member does not understand Picky's post.

It contributes to the 'theme/feel' of the map. If you're fighting against Thrax in...let's say...a clean, high-tech and pristine city compared to the current GC map.

[wb21]

Yes, it does add further feeling to the map to and enemy who utilizes toxins and chemicals and give the player/opponent a(n) (dis)advantage and some blow-stuff-up.

[Shock]

Ok nice piece, but firstly, SWR don't take suggestions. Although you might want to mention these a bug reports.

No suggestions but we are open to bug reports and balance suggestions.

[White Cat]

Yes, it does add further feeling to the map to and enemy who utilizes toxins and chemicals and give the player/opponent a(n) (dis)advantage and some blow-stuff-up.

In that case it should do more damage. I just feel something is missing for the feel on the map. Toxins should be all over the map discouraging infantry use or something of the sort. The river for example is generally too clean.

[Zeke]

Well...

Guarding newer long ranged weapons (airforce general has its own, laser general has its own) seem to wander off towards the enemy at times (probably following a supply truck that passed by). I want them to stay behind my defense line and take out enemy artillery.

Well IIRC all artillery does this, it's caused by their extended sight range

You need to be a three-star general to gain snipers. I think US shouldn't have to wait that long to gain snipers the strategy center should be enough. Snipers are almost entirely defensive anyways (you cannot destroy buildings with them). GLA has Jarmen Kel so they get a sniper before the US rank-wise.

Pathfinders can kill people inside stinger sites, something that would be OP early on the game. Also you can only build one Jarmen as opposed to infinite pathfinders.

Armour General is pretty bad at defense due to stationary defenses occupying so much room. They should be 1/2 the size and 1/2 the power. Problem is if you have 4 of them holding a narrow passage and you loose one you pretty much loose them all.

Well you can do what I do, put your defences a little further at the back like this:



I also use it for stinger sites

Another issue is how attack buggies can knock out defensive structures simply because of their range. I suppose this may be a bad idea but how about adding anti-missile lasers to laser turrets.

they're called Avengers

Tank general does not use artillery or any other long ranged weapons making him exceptionally easy once you build that nice defensive wall.

Problems with tank gen? Solution: BUILD MORE TANKS!!

[White Cat]

More bugs!

China's propaganda center has two things assigned for the shortcut M. No Chinese structure (in any general) should utilize L (land mines) or M (Neutron/EMP mines) for units or upgrades.

[IonCharge]

There are several key shortcuts that don't work or link to something else...

And on the Carpet Bomber topic:
They are like a risky super power: something capable of reducing many buildings but destroyable. Otherwise it would be just giving USA/China another super weapon. As for its direction: AFAIK the plane flys over your cc to the target

This post has been edited by IonCharge: 24 Feb 2010, 20:14

[White Cat]

Well...



Well IIRC all artillery does this, it's caused by their extended sight range



Pathfinders can kill people inside stinger sites, something that would be OP early on the game. Also you can only build one Jarmen as opposed to infinite pathfinders.



Well you can do what I do, put your defences a little further at the back like this:



I also use it for stinger sites



they're called Avengers



Problems with tank gen? Solution: BUILD MORE TANKS!!

First off... I have no problem winning. Suggestions here are to give ai the advantage. Not me.

Meh! Artillery acts a bit dumb. If it's well known I suppose it is kind of redundant to discuss it. I wish I was able to "hold position guard" them. Maybe if we had the option to deploy artillery units? And I do not mean like the nuke cannon more like how you deploy your helicopter artillery in red alert 2. For me I keep a long range unit or two behind my defensive line against those pesky attack buggies or Chinese artillery units. I just dislike it when my artillery decide to try to take on all the enemies on their own and go after chasing them...

There is a balance issue with Pathfinders. This has been an issue since zero hour. Think about it an A-10 strike and Pathfinders appear at same rank level and cost same amount of general points. More powerful units like GLA's scud launcher is available at 1 star. I am under the belief that Pathfinders should be available right after you build your strategy center. As for Mortar infantry... They should be available after the construction of propaganda center. Also I just noticed that you cannot put mortar infantry in vehicles to ferry them even though you can fit an entire battlemaster tank or even a dozer in those helix helicopters.... General points should be reserved for things that really influences the game. Pathfinders aren't critical.

You can defeat the laser general by using a single attack buggy and perhaps 4 quad cannons to fend off enemy helicopters. A collection of 6 or more laser turrets (like in the generals challenge) would be harder to destroy. My defenses when playing as laser general is quite impenetrable (at least by the dumb AI). Taking on the AI with merely two stealth fighters is enough to knock out one of his turrets. It's simply too easy.

Umm.. The problem is playing against the tank general. All you need to do is build a wall of defenses... Even stingers are enough to knock out his tanks. Then wipe his base with your super weapon. Why? The AI refuses to use any long range weapon or any one of the more powerful tanks. He just sends infantry (Seriously? Infantry?) Battlemaster tanks, Gatling tanks and of course the Overlord tanks whom never seem to work in groups or have a bunker installed. No use of ECM tanks or other goodies. I suppose the only challenge you face against the tank general is the infantry that he sends that seems to slip by missile launching defenses like patriot missile batteries and stinger sites. Despite this AI has a laughable use of infantry with the use of a handful...

[White Cat]

There are several key shortcuts that don't work or link to something else...

And on the Carpet Bomber topic:
They are like a risky super power: something capable of reducing many buildings but destroyable. Otherwise it would be just giving USA/China another super weapon. As for its direction: AFAIK the plane flys over your cc to the target

Yeah but the problem is you cannot completely control how the carpet bombers will drop their bombs so you might end up inflicting very little damage. This is because carpet bombers arrive by flying over the closest command center. As a human player I can influence it by building another command center. AI does not and makes poor use of it. I can also easily shoot down AI's bombers by placing 4-6 avengers at their predictable path.

[White Cat]

USA Armor General versus GLA Demo general (in challenge mode). Impossible.First off you have no way to defend due to the lack off attack helicopters. Your tanks and all vehicles get destroyed almost instantly. Even if you save/load like crazy (that is fun right?) you simply do not have the cash to deal with the scud storm that rains on you by the time you even build a war factory. I was playing it at easy difficulty mind you.

Problem is demo general starts attacking right after game start. There is no delay. I am posting this as a balance issue.

This post has been edited by White Cat: 24 Feb 2010, 23:03

[Destiny]

First off... I have no problem winning. Suggestions here are to give ai the advantage. Not me.

Meh! Artillery acts a bit dumb. If it's well known I suppose it is kind of redundant to discuss it. I wish I was able to "hold position guard" them. Maybe if we had the option to deploy artillery units? And I do not mean like the nuke cannon more like how you deploy your helicopter artillery in red alert 2. For me I keep a long range unit or two behind my defensive line against those pesky attack buggies or Chinese artillery units. I just dislike it when my artillery decide to try to take on all the enemies on their own and go after chasing them...

CTRL+Attack.

Pathfinders aren't critical.

...

...don't underestimate Pathfinders.

My defenses when playing as laser general is quite impenetrable (at least by the dumb AI). Taking on the AI with merely two stealth fighters is enough to knock out one of his turrets. It's simply too easy.

You are playing as a GLA faction from all the GC things you are saying.