Rio de Janeiro Power Island Project Options

[Overdose]

http://www.documentariesTV.net/technology/..._cb931a703.html

In the same project my country is going to create the biggest tunnels ever dug through 7 mountains, move an entire river with more cubic liters than the US consumes in a day, create one of the biggest dams ever built, with the most powerful turbines ever designed, all to create a new source of clean electricity and to avoid displacing any people or harming any green zones and to make sure both there is enough power to host the two biggest sporting events in the planet.

[Shock]

Upon seeing this I wish the Netherlands wasn't so nitpicky about half a billion of investment needed for hosting the World Cup :S

[Shiro]

I watched the video and I must say this is far FAR beyond awesome. This is one of the coolest projects I have heard of yet, green, environment friendly and with a progressive view towards the future. Brazil, you gained my complete respect. Now if only other politicians, like in Germany, would think into the same direction in the name of the people, not their own pockets, we could really do things like this much more often.

[R3ven]

I haven't watched but from the sound of it, sounds great and could help the planet greatly.

And I agree with you on that politician bit, KamuiK >_>

[Alias]

Well technically hydroelectric power is not completely environmentally friendly, but it is certainly multitudes better than fossil fuels.

I believe about 98% of Norway's power is sourced from hydroelectric dams.

[Shiro]

Alias, by that logic NO powersource ever would be completely environmentally friendly, but, as you stated correctly in the second part, it's much better than oil and coal.

This post has been edited by KamuiK: 29 Sep 2010, 20:56

[Alias]

How do you mean 'by that logic'?

Hydroelectric power displaces a lot of habitats. It vastly changes an environment in a certain area. Look no further than the Three Gorges Dam. That's certainly far more of an environmental effect than you get from things such as wind.

[Overdose]

We do things differently than China around here, Alias.

[Alias]

Of course, but to build a dam you have to displace a volume of water whether you are in Brazil or China. Hence you will definitely have to change an environment.

[Shock]

The yangtze in China is getting largely dammed along its length, a disaster for the river ecosystem.

Arguments 'its much better than coal and oil' thus don't give the complete story as both forms of power generation have vastly different impacts. Environmental degradation is also FAR GREATER a problem than global warming will likely be in fifty years.

[Overdose]

Solar power is unreliable too weak and requires too much maintenance.

Wind power requires too much land to get a decent amount of power and is also unreliable. All the windy areas in Brazil are either in high altitude which would make them very hard to build and maintain or on the coast where their large numbers would harm the Atlantic Rain forest. They would also mar the beauty of our coasts. A big no-no here. Similar to ask a father to scar the face of one of his daughters.

In my country Hydroelectric power is the lesser of evils at least until the next 30 or something years when we invent a better energy source. Considering we are the only country in the world that invests and researches seriously into new alternative and renewable energy sources, I don't think any of you have the right to be pointing flaws here. You people love to complain but when it comes to electing politicians that actually act on these kind of concerns instead of covering their own asses when they should rather be taking a respectable environmental action.

After the failure that Copenhagen was, we were the only country that took the round seriously and carried negotiations on our shoulders for weeks, it is quite clear all of you people lost any credibility whatsoever in the global environmental stage. When you people actually take initiative instead of complain at the people who are hard at work trying to resolve the issue maybe you'll manage to change my opinion. I don't count on it however.

[Shock]

Overdose, why do you see every form of critique as an attack on your country?

I did not attack this project in any way, I applauded it and I also see it as much better than any of those Chinese mega dam projects. The fact that you are willing to move a river instead of just mowing villages down for mega projects like they do in the east, says something right.

and this

the only country in the world that invests and researches seriously into new alternative and renewable energy sources

is simply untrue. The EU is a leading party when it comes down to environmental policy on a very large scale. We have come from a deep ravine but are certainly recovering the land. China is doing the same, having realized the impacts of their development.

Germany is very much leading on every environmental effort over here, currently at 14% sustainable energy production. They are doing quite well and have reasonable chance to reach their goal of having 27% renewable energy resources in 2020 and an 11% reduction of energy usage. We Dutch lag behind due to a government absorbed by stupid immigration queries over the more important issues. However because Germany is doing so good they are doing a job at pulling everyone back up stature.

I understand the need to defend yourself as Brazil often gets lots of critique but you shouldn't put words in our mouths and start scolding me and Alias over here for what certain unrelated governments think or (fail to) do.

[Alias]

Solar power is unreliable too weak and requires too much maintenance.

It's more reliable than most other power sources. The sun isn't going to disappear in the next 50 years, a river can disappear in 50 hours. The main problem with solar is the pollution from creating the chemicals required for the panels.

Wind power requires too much land to get a decent amount of power and is also unreliable. All the windy areas in Brazil are either in high altitude which would make them very hard to build and maintain or on the coast where their large numbers would harm the Atlantic Rain forest. They would also mar the beauty of our coasts. A big no-no here. Similar to ask a father to scar the face of one of his daughters.

20 percent of Denmark's power comes from wind. Denmark is more than twice as dense as you are, so bullshit to it takes 'too much land'. "Mar the beauty"? You think a wind farm spoils a view yet a series of gigantic dams doesn't? Sure. Wind power can be inland too, just thought I'd point out.

In my country Hydroelectric power is the lesser of evils at least until the next 30 or something years when we invent a better energy source. Considering we are the only country in the world that invests and researches seriously into new alternative and renewable energy sources, I don't think any of you have the right to be pointing flaws here.

The bullshit is astounding. China spends more on renewable energy than almost the rest of the world combined.

You people love to complain but when it comes to electing politicians that actually act on these kind of concerns instead of covering their own asses when they should rather be taking a respectable environmental action.

Australia and New Zealand invented environmental politics. Australia has one of the biggest green votes in the world, so you're the one who has no right to be pointing out flaws.

After the failure that Copenhagen was, we were the only country that took the round seriously and carried negotiations on our shoulders for weeks, it is quite clear all of you people lost any credibility whatsoever in the global environmental stage. When you people actually take initiative instead of complain at the people who are hard at work trying to resolve the issue maybe you'll manage to change my opinion. I don't count on it however.

Copenhagen failed because nobody could agree on anything. It didn't fail based on a single country and no single country made it work, and as I said before, Australia has a far larger Green vote than most other countries.

This post has been edited by Alias: 30 Sep 2010, 13:46

[Overdose]

Well I do happen to take the environment very seriously, because I really happen to be an activist for the environment for over 10 years. I started protecting dolphins and whales and now I fight for all nationally environmental areas. I've gotten personally involved in about every major ecological dilemma my country has been in. So forgive me if I do get angry every time foreigners start talking about the environment of my country or what we should or shouldn't do, as if they actually understand what is going on or how things work around here. We are all well aware of the things we do wrong, however we've also made major strides. There are two things I take seriously in this world and those are politics and the environment. If I wanted someone to remind me of my flaws or demean my accomplishments, I'd be looking for a woman to get married with instead and not be talking with you.

How would you people like if I said in any Europe related thread that you've been burning coal for 300 and completely destroyed the entire of your forests and of many other countries? If you were really ashamed of that because you are an environmentalist, how would you enjoy people popping the subject up all the time? Are you actually one though Shock or are you just a false moralist? Either way, you should gotten the hint by now this is a very heated subject for me.

Oh and Alias. Why are you so green when you export so much Uranium. We've also got plenty of Uranium over here on this side but we barely mine it because we only use it for ourselves. How much of that Uranium you think goes into medicinal purposes? How much goes into nuclear armaments I wonder? If you really cared about the nuclear stage you'd not be exporting it to another countries. That is very unethical way to deal with the situation. Claim you are not something and encourage other countries and profit from it too. You are even worse than arms dealers. If nuclear warfare breaks out I'd you hold you as much responsible as those that pull the trigger.

Those are just a few examples.

Now gentlemen I'm a 27 year old male and I have better things to do than to argue with people on the internet. You've crossed the line again and I got my point across as well. If you actually aren't the things I said then you truly acknowledge you are at fault and won't post anymore in this thread.

Good day.

[Alias]

Oh and Alias. Why are you so green when you export so much Uranium. We've also got plenty of Uranium over here on this side but we barely mine it because we only use it for ourselves. How much of that Uranium you think goes into medicinal purposes? How much goes into nuclear armaments I wonder? If you really cared about the nuclear stage you'd not be exporting it to another countries. That is very unethical way to deal with the situation. Claim you are not something and encourage other countries and profit from it too. You are even worse than arms dealers. If nuclear warfare breaks out I'd you hold you as much responsible as those that pull the trigger.

The difference here is I can actually admit my country is flawed. You seem to think that every single thing Brazil has ever done, is doing or is planning on doing is the infallible truth that can never be criticised. I wholeheartedly welcome your criticism of my country. If only you would be as welcoming to the criticism of your own.

For the record, I am strongly anti-nuclear, including anti-uranium mining, along with most people of my political persuasion.

This post has been edited by Alias: 30 Sep 2010, 17:29

[Overdose]

You really do have me figured out wrong. I'm actually quite critical of my country. I just can't stand outsiders putting their nose where it does not belong nor do I discuss such things with foreigners. Not any different than the fans of a football club being critical among themselves however if someone from another club says something things get bitter. My case in this situation is even stronger because my country is infinitively more important than any football team.

I am not critical of other countries either because it does not concern me and honestly it does not matter because I'm not qualified to make an educated argument considering I know next to nothing about most due to lack of interest. What matters for me is what goes on in here. I won't hold myself responsible for the things people do abroad, my conscience is clear as far that goes.

I've only made these statements to get my view of things across. I'm not the kind of person that blames others for my own shortcomings or am I self righteous prick. You can only accuse me of pride.

[Alias]

If you don't want us to 'poke our noses where it doesn't belong', then why did you start this thread?

Seems counter-intuitive to start something for a discussion then say that you shouldn't discuss it. :|

[Overdose]

I just wanted to post a video not make people argue I'd rather choose no one posting or even viewing the video than to start more pointless Internet arguing.

[Shock]

Nobody attacked Brazil, did they? However you responded like they did. I did not negatively poke my head around in your country in this thread. I know I did before, and I also know that its not the best approach. Alias did neither, he only pointed out something to counterweight the valhalla image that was given of hydroelectric power in this thread.

Then why take it personal and start accusing me of being a false moralist. I can quote myself here in my previous post, that I do acknowledge the far ravine Europe has created and is climbing up from, but apparently you did not read it. Here it is:

We have come from a deep ravine but are certainly recovering the land.

I did not bring up anything related to Brazil here, and I I understand how it feels. I already pointed that out:

I understand the need to defend yourself as Brazil often gets lots of critique..

Again, nobody attacked you, so don't attack me based on arguments that my previous posts already disprove.

[Overdose]

Shock right now all you are doing is stretching this arguing. When we decided to leave this behind.

So I won't even read your post there.

[Comr4de]

Just watched the documentary last night, pretty epic stuff.

[ultimentra]

Everyone knows nuclear power plants are the ultimate clean energy sources.


_{Inb4 Chernobyl}


Btw, I have to hand it to Brazil. Thanks for the info OD! Good stuff to know.

This post has been edited by ultimentra: 4 Oct 2010, 11:37

[MARS]

Everyone knows nuclear power plants are the ultimate clean energy sources.

[trollface]
_{Inb4 Chernobyl}


Btw, I have to hand it to Brazil. Thanks for the info OD! Good stuff to know.

When it comes to energy issues, Chernobyl has to be the rhetorical equivalent of Godwin's Law, much like
the obligatory Big Brother reference whenever people talk about how much they hate surveillance cameras.

[NergiZed]

Nice.

Is it bigger than the three gorges dam?

[Waris]

Itaipu already tops the Three Gorges. If this thing will outsize the Itaipu, well...