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SWR Productions Forum _ Rise of the Reds _ 2.0 Generals Discussion

Posted by: Gameman112358 16 Dec 2016, 5:25

Since 1.87 is (probably) around the last few stages of being released as a polished full version (Public beta tells me the devs are close; could be wrong though), and 2.0 is coming right after 1.87, I figure it's time to start talking about the biggest change that is coming to 2.0: the inclusion of subfaction generals for all of the factions in the game.

I wanted to open up this discussion because each subfaction is balanced around certain unique aspects of a faction, and are geared towards very different play styles. I am curious to see how these subfactions are going to be balanced. Note that a lot of this is just speculation, what we know about the generals at this moment, what I've seen on stream and my own personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt. Also, not trying to fish for info or give any suggestions, just curious on balance within the game. (If my questions end up asking a little too much, you guys (the devs) can just say that it can't be answered at this moment.)

With that said, lets begin.

USA
The U.S. faction in the game is known for having a micro heavy, generalist play style, being a jack-of-all-trades, master of none faction. They're reliant on speed, mobility, and map control, using their quick units to scout out the map and harass the enemy. Also has a lot of drone weapons in their army, HKs, AT drones, sentry drones, etc. Probably one of the harder factions for me to use, simply because they require so much more micro than the other factions.

General Bradley (Tank Command [Powerhouse])
Bradley is one of the generals that I'm personally eager to try when 2.0 comes out. He strikes me as having heavier, more armored vehicles, while still having most of the mobility the U.S. faction is known for. Tank Command the only subfaction that has the Paladin Tank and the Patriot SAM Vehicle, the two vehicles that are perfect for a tank platoon; Paladins are damage sponges for other tanks, especially when upgraded with Composite Armor, and Patriot SAMs can protect Bradley's tanks from air attacks. I can already imagine a tactic where people call Starlifters in, load them up with Paladins, Patriots, Vulcans, and some repair drones then quickly getting them to an undefended side of an enemy base. Would be a nightmare for a player to all of a sudden see a tank platoon rushing their unprotected flank. With that said, I'm curious on a few things:
1. Is Tank Command still going to need a lot of micro? Does it require less micro than the other two U.S. subfactions? Tank Command definitely sounds like its going to be more direct than the other two subfactions, but given that its a U.S. subfaction, I assume it will still require a lot of microing compared to other subfactions.
2. Is Bradley more of a mid to late game subfaction? I'm not sure if he is as effective as the other two at harassment early game, given that Bradley IFVs are slower than humvees. The faction feels like its either wait until T1 and go direct assault with Crusaders and Vulcans, or get to T2 and go steamrolling with Paladins to support your armor divisions.
3. How is this faction going to be able to maintain its momentum against heavy armor or artillery factions in the late game? Despite the fact that Bradley's vehicles are heavier and better armored than the other two, I doubt he'd be able to hold up too long against dedicated armor factions like Russia, not mentioning that his slower vehicles are more vulnerable to giant splash damage attacks like howitzer shellings and FOABs.

General Thorn (Special Operations [Subversive])
If your main faction is the U.S. and you love to harass your enemy constantly, then Thorn is definitely for you. Based from what I've heard, his infantry corps is supposedly the best within the U.S. faction, having a large variety of spec ops troops that can serve a lot of different functions. We've already seen a few units going to Thorn; Green Berets are essentially stronger Rangers, Delta Force Operators are heavy support infantry, capable of long range harassment with their mortars, Pathfinders are snipers with recon capability, and SEALs can tear a whole base apart if left unchecked. Thorn can definitely wreak havoc upon the enemy if you use his units effectively. That being said:
1. What's Thorn's primary tactic? Harassment? Sabotage? I feel the subfaction is supposed to be good at sabotage and sneak attacks, given that it is a faction of covert ops, but most of his known units don't have stealth (only the pathfinder out of all his known units), and he doesn't have anything that is 'annoying', like the ability to disable buildings or steal cash.
2. Is Thorn one of those 'win in the early game or you lose' type of generals? He strikes me as one of those generals that won't be able to last in the late game unless his enemy is careless. I think he still has the standard units like Crusaders and such, but it really won't last if the enemy techs up and starts deploying really powerful units, and his spec ops infantry can easily be torn apart by anti-infantry units, which aren't terribly expensive to make.

General Griffon (Air Force [Faction Strength X2])
Griffon is an odd one for me. His speciality is U.S. air superiority, which for me is strange because I haven't really seen any battle in Doomy's streams that have been won with strictly aircraft. That being said, the U.S. faction currently doesn't have most of the unique upgrades and aircraft Griffon has, and I've seen some players do well using the current U.S. air force as a supplement to other forces, so I'll assume that it can only get better from there. Raptors and Auroras will be making a comeback, better than ever. I can't wait. A few questions about Griffon though:
1. How is he going to deal with large amounts of AA? It wouldn't take a player much time or money to build lots of AA, and I'm pretty sure the Guardian Angel TMD isn't going to be enough to stop AA, since it's not only a Rank 5 GP, a good player can simply order their units to focus fire on something else. I'm worried that things like Grumbles, Twin Fangs, Urals, Wotans, and huge groups of AA will take away the only advantage Griffon has.
2. What is Griffon's tactic in the early game? I'm kinda assuming that a player using this subfaction would probably rush for an airfield and harass, but again, it would be easy to expect it and build a bunch of AA around your base to shut down further air harassment.
3. Out of all the generals, is Griffon the most micro heavy of all of them? Or does that go to Thorn? I'm not sure which general requires more micro to play well; Griffon would definitely need a lot of micro to keep up air raids and make sure aircraft are being as effective as possible, but Thorn requires just as much babysitting with his units.
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China
Spam, spam, and more spam. This faction is all about overwhelming numbers. Their units are individually weaker than the other factions, but they become strong when they start grouping up (which they will, given how cost effective their units are). I personally love this faction because of its production capabilities, propaganda support, and the fact that it has large amounts of napalm, EMP, and nuclear weaponry to use.

General Mau (Special Weapons [Powerhouse])
Mau has caught my eye, mainly because he takes China's tendency to use EMP, napalm, and nuclear weaponry and turns it up even further. He gets the Han Gunship, one of the most versatile and powerful aircraft I've seen (IMO) in game, the Nuke Cannon, still as destructive as ever, the Shenlong, basically an overlord with dual flamethrowers, and much more. What I'm curious about:
1. What tactics does Mau use? Based from what units we've seen so far that are going to him, he feels like a general that would stay back and nuke/burn/EMP his enemies into dust using his powerful artillery (Nuke Cannon, Nukeneer).
2. Apparently the mini gunner team is going to Mau; does that mean he has more than just the nukes, EMP, and Napalm weapons? I got this from the wiki; probably unreliable, but it makes it seem like Mau is basically getting any advanced weapon technology China has alongside the usual nukes and napalm.

General Jin (Secret Police [Subversive])
Jin essentially takes the propaganda and electronic warfare aspect of China and develops it further, from what I've seen. Based on what he has (Radio Intercepts, Banshee ECM, Propaganda Airship), a player can find out what the enemy is doing, what they're planning, and disrupt it with propaganda buffed forces. General Jin would definitely be fit for a player who wants to know their enemy and plan ahead. Supposedly he is getting better propaganda; either that means he is the only one who gets the Subliminal Messaging upgrade, or he already has it by default and has an upgrade that upgrades his speaker towers further. Questions:
1. What's this subfaction's play style supposed to be like? When I hear 'Propaganda and Electronic Warfare', I could speculate a lot of things; hacking enemy vehicles and structures, disabling control over enemy armies (a la Radio Station Communication Disruption), supporting your armies with even better propaganda (AKA Glorious Red Army Speeches. XD), etc.
2. What kind of forces does General Jin have at his disposal? Information about your enemy would be pretty useless if you don't have the forces to act on it. I know that Jin has the standard Chinese armory (Battlemasters, Gattling tanks, etc.), but I'm not sure if he is getting anything else regarding new units.

General Chen (Red Army [Faction Strength X2])
The moment I saw the title of the general and what he put emphasis on, I instantly got excited for 2.0. Chen is another one of the generals that I can't wait to use, mainly because he's a general that I feel will have a lot of strength in direct assaults, given that he supposedly gets nationalism by default and gets the patriotism upgrade to further increase his horde bonus, as well as the fact that he is the only one who can build Overlords, the perfect meat shield to spearhead assaults with. His basic strategy is basically China's strategy taken up to a whole new level: overwhelm the enemy with massive numbers and powerful weapons. Questions:
1. Would you guys say that Chen is probably the general that prefers direct attack over all else? Given Chen's theme, it wouldn't surprise me if players of this subfaction eschewed most of the other possible tactics in favor of just attacking the enemy directly and relentlessly.
2. How would this faction deal with factions that specialize in sneak attacks or artillery? I imagine generals like General Charles and most of the GLA would have no trouble exploiting the fact that Chen is reliant on direct assaults to win, using Howitzer Positions in Charles' case, and hijackers, rocket buggies, and grads in the GLA's case to destroy much of Chen's attack groups.
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GLA
Fast, sneaky, and reliant on devious tactics, the GLA are a very difficult faction to wipe out completely. Their armies can quickly go from one place to another using their tunnel network, and the fact that many of their production buildings have tunnels built in makes this even more obvious. I will admit that I don't really play this faction too much, since being fast and sneaky is not by play style, but I will admit that they're pretty strong; I've lost a lot of units fighting GLA AI from a well placed Overwatch, and their suicide units are REALLY goddamn annoying. Doesn't help that now in 1.87 PB with an upgrade their suicide units run as fast as an Olympic track runner. XD

General Sulaymaan (Warlord [Powerhouse])
Okay, just to get this out of the way, really? Warlord General? Not to insult the devs, but that title is kinda lame IMO. Putting that aside though, Sulaymaan is definitely the hard hitter in the GLA. Despite not knowing what units are in store for him, I can already tell he has more muscle than the other two GLA subfactions, given that he gets the mercenaries and the marauder tanks, two very strong units in the GLA arsenal. Based from what I've seen, he's essentially a beefier GLA, having stronger infantry and tanks, while still being incredibly mobile via the tunnel network. That combo make me curious on a few things:
1. What's his play style like? Sulaymaan strikes me as being a heavier version of the current GLA, while still maintaining GLA map control a la tunnel networks. This makes me think that he can do a combination of sneak attacks and direct assault at the same time, but I could be wrong.
2. What's his theme supposed to be? His theme of being a 'Warlord' is kinda vague; if someone tells me I'm facing the Red Army General, I'm expecting unit spam, for example. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to expect out of Sulaymaan.

General Ibrahiim (Bio Command [Subversive])
Ah, I had a feeling that there would a successor to Dr. Thrax and his toxin legacy. I'm not surprised that Ibrahiim is the subversive part of the GLA, given that toxins are great for area denial, not so much for direct assault. Based from what I heard, the scud launcher will be going to this subfaction, and will be altered to become closer to the Topol-M in regards to how it attacks. A toxic missile of doom... ouch. XD Anyway, this general definitely sounds like the general that would use biological warfare to weaken their enemies, slowly chipping away attacking armies until there's little left. Questions:
1. What kind of tricks does Ibrahiim have to use against armor centered subfactions? Biological warfare is more than just spraying a bunch of Anthrax everywhere; viruses, plagues, etc. also count. I imagine there's gotta be something for Ibrahiim regarding vehicles; heavy and superheavy tanks won't give a sh*t to anthrax after all.
2. What's Ibrahiim's play style like? I can already see that this subfaction can make the enemy's life hell simply because he has so many area denial options, but I'm curious how Ibrahiim moves in for the kill. Anthrax bomb over the enemy production buildings, I guess?

General Yusuuf (Terror Cell [Faction Strength X2])
This general is an interesting one. Yusuuf's theme is essentially ambushes with stealthed units, powerful suicide attacks, and surprise attacks. Basically the GLA theme taken up a notch. Bomb trucks and terrorists in their current incarnation are already goddamned annoying already, I shudder to think what players will do combining that with everything else Yusuuf is getting. That being said:
1. How balanced is he regarding scouts and stealth detectors? His theme sounds like it is really reliant on stealth and surprise attacks, which I suspect could be easily ruined by units like Listening Outposts and Bloodhounds. I'm worried players might not be able to rely on ambushes if they get detected all the time.
2. What's his play style like? Much like Ibrahiim, surprise attacks and stealth will cause a lot of problems for enemy armies, but the moment T2 hits and the enemy starts deploying heavier weapons and better stealth detectors, I'm not sure how this faction will survive, unless they've harassed the enemy to the breaking point.
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Russia
RUSSIA STRONK! XD Seriously, though, this faction is what happens when a faction basically says "Screw speed, firepower and armor all the way!". Their armor divisions are the best in the game, getting even stronger in the late game once you get the Ursa Division GP, giving you access to the Blackbear Sentinel Tank, a really, really powerful variant of the regular Sentinel Tank. Their air force is pretty good (Though all of the helicopters in the Russian air force are Orlov only), and their infantry are pretty decent IMO. Shock troopers in particular are my favorite. Anti tank uncrushable infantry with tons of health and a (GP) Tesla gun? Heck yeah!

General Aleksandr (Advanced Weapons [Powerhouse])
Ah, yes, General Aleksandr, or as I like to call him, the 'Mad Scientist General'. This guy basically gets all of the cool toys that Russia gets, such as tesla weapons, shock troopers, coilguns, and Golem tanks, which are a Sentinel replacement (Less health and damage but is amphibious, immune to radiation, EMP, and toxins, and has the Shtora protection system.). I personally am looking forward to using this general, simply because I want to... shock my enemies into submission. (Bad pun intended. XD) Anyway...
1. Since tesla weapons and coilguns are sorta his thing, does that mean he'll have more units that are focused around that? I have noticed that his Tesla Tank replaces the Buratino (How on earth a mobile tesla vehicle can somehow clear structures is beyond me lol), and he is supposedly getting a basic tank that replaces the kodiak, armed with a coilgun. What's next, helicopters with tesla coils AND railguns? XD
2. How does Aleksandr play out in game? Aleksandr I imagine would probably play differently than the current Russia faction; he got some cool new toys, but he doesn't get nukes, helicopters, or VDV drops.

General Orlov (Rapid Deployment [Subversive])
This guy is probably the general many players will go to, mainly because he's the one that is getting the entire helicopter arsenal that many Russian players are using right now. Hellions, Hunchbacks, and of course, HINDS. (to quote Doomy: "Press 1 for Hind, Press 2 for Hind, Press Hind for Hind!" Laughed my butt off when I heard that. XD). It looks like he's essentially Russia's special forces and strong helicopter arsenal rolled into one general. Spetznaz, VDV, and powerful helicopters. Can't wait. smile.gif Alright, questions:
1. He doesn't have access to nukes in 2.0 (Those go to Zhukov), but has access to the standard Russian arsenal alongside his special forces; does that mean he can be very flexible in terms of overall strategy? Since Russia's regular arsenal is already pretty strong, I imagine it wouldn't be hard for him to switch from sneaking powerful infantry around to simply using said infantry alongside heavy tanks in a frontal assault. Some of the other generals (Thorn, Chen, Griffon) IMO will start losing their effectiveness once the enemy is able to counter their tactics; Orlov can switch between different tactics and won't be stuck if the enemy brings counters.
2. What tactic is recommended for Orlov? His arsenal is faster than the other Russian subfactions, though I'm not sure how good he is at harassment. I'm not sure if a player should harass or should go for map control with this general, given that Russian armor is pretty good at holding the line.

General Zhukov (Tactical Ballistics [Faction Strength X2])
Zhukov is definitely going to be an interesting general to play with when 2.0 comes out. His focus on 'tactical ballistics' is kinda vague, but given what units are going to him and what I've heard, it looks like he's essentially Russia's heavy artillery general. He's the only one with access to Topol-M launchers and Missile Silos, both of which are essentially defense breakers. He's also going to be getting artillery defense, a unique T2 AA, and the compression missile upgrade, which increases missile range. Basically Zhukov is all about strong missiles and artillery. That being said:
1. Why is Tactical Ballistics known as Russia's faction strength? I'm kinda curious on this part because Russia didn't really strike me as the ballistics faction. They come off more as the heavy armor faction IMO.
2. Since he gets no mobile helicopters, but has access to nuclear weapons, does that mean his play style is going to be more focused around boxing your enemy in and then breaking their defenses? I imagine that players that use Zhukov would likely try to push their enemy back, mass forces outside the base, use a nuke to weaken the defenses, then move in with the troops. At least that's what I imagine people will do with this general
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ECA
The ECA is a very strange faction, balance wise. Part of it is because of the fact that the game rewards you more for being an aggressor, not a defender. (Ranking up to get GPs, expansion to supply points, etc.). The ECA are probably the hardest faction to master, alongside the U.S., mainly because their primary play style is very different compared to the other 4 factions in the game. That being said, however, they do a damn good job defending themselves. Strong defenses, strong artillery, and lots of cool tricks like tear gas, commandos, smart bombs, etc. ECA has more mine variants than any other faction, being able to completely lock down a zone with tons of mines. The protocols are even cooler, and are when you can turn the tide on the enemy. Manticore for tank lovers, Pandora for the deadly neutron weapons, nerve gas, cryo lasers, and the solar apocalypse upgrade, and the Venom for when you want super powerful infantry and two very powerful units that can (with good player control) turn the tide of a battle in favor of the ECA.

General Wolfgang (Mechanized Assault [Powerhouse])
Wolfgang is the ECA general that I can't wait to use in 2.0. Based on from what is known about him, he essentially gives up some of the ECA's defense potential (still pretty good defense though, I think) for much better harassment and direct assault options. Compared to the other two subfactions, Wolfgang's faster and more aggressive, and open up more tactical options for a player that picks him (I think). Jagdmammuts are specialized tank destroyers, and he's supposedly getting replacements for the Lynx APC and the Pandur IFV. A couple things I'm wondering:
1. Is his units supposed to be as slow as the other two ECA subfactions? The only unit that we've seen so far is the Jagdmammuts, and while they're decent tank destroyers (better with Gas Ignition Rounds), they're pretty slow for a general that is supposedly more aggressive and better at harassment.
2. What is his strategy regarding large scale attacks? When I see the term 'Mechanized Assault' I kinda assume 'blitzkrieg', basically lightning fast assaults, but the only unit that's going to him is so slow that I'm wondering how on earth a player utilizes him. Not mentioning that I have no idea whether or not he's going to get a unit that functions like a meat shield for other units. (Most ECA units have pretty bad HP; Some of Wolfgang's units kinda has to be an exception if he's going to be able to have a direct assault, otherwise it would be easy to shut down his offensives. Just my opinion.)

General Charles (Fire Support [Subversive])
If you like to shell your enemies before they even come close to your base, this is the general for you. Charles is interesting as a general, reliant on heavy artillery and aircraft to destroy the enemy, essentially killing the enemy before they can even come close to you. He'll be getting the Harrier, Claymore Howitzer, Mortar Track, Goshawk, and Heavy Sniper, all units that kill far from enemy reach. What I'm questioning about is:
1. Isn't this general going to have problems trying to go on the offense compared to the other ECA generals? He isn't going to be getting the super strong defenses to base crawl like Willem, and he doesn't have the offensive capabilities of Wolfgang. He can bombard invading armies to dust, but how is he going to use that to destroy the enemy?
2. Is he one of those generals that you'd pick if you were in a 2v2 or something like that? Charles feels like a general that is better at supporting an offensive campaign underway, rather than trying to start one himself. I could be wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting, given that most of his units are good at destroying unit blobs. (Claymores do little damage against buildings; You need so many to destroy one building. XD)

General Willem (Royal Guard [Faction Strength X2])
This guy is basically a turtler's dream. Willem has some of the very strong defenses of the ECA, including the Gun Turret and the really powerful Bulldog turret. He'll also be getting a stronger replacement of the Skyshield Battery. The lore mentions him using tunnels and bunker complexes, but I'm not sure if that will make it into the game or not. Willem can base crawl his enemy to death; it basically becomes a war of attrition, tiring the enemy out until the enemy makes a mistake/is exhausted, which is when Willem takes advantage of that. A few questions:
1. Is his primary strategy going to be base crawling? Or does he have some other options? I can imagine that a lot of players would probably be bored to death playing this general, simply because this general from the looks of it relies on base crawling the most, which I've seen happen on stream. It looks really boring. (Mizo, you main ECA, right? You probably know how boring base crawling is, given the time and energy it takes...)
2. How is he going to deal with artillery factions? I can already tell that his defenses are the only thing stopping an army cold, but artillery factions like Zhukov and Mau could just crack his defenses and move in. Bulldog turrets can deal with them, but they do have a pretty long cool down, and it wouldn't be long before they send more artillery.
3. Wouldn't it be possible for most factions to outeco Willem? I have no idea if Willem can take map control easily, and ECA's secondary eco sucks ass, so it wouldn't be hard for a faction to simply outeco a turtling Willem player, unless Willem has some good harassment abilities to destroy enemy secondary eco.
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Those are my thoughts on all of the subfactions for all 5 factions. Let the 2.0 discussion begin. smile.gif

Posted by: X1Destroy 16 Dec 2016, 7:18

It's nice to see a post like this when all you get recently are shitposting multiplayer nonsenses.

USA actually have lots of nice things to do with enemy tanks and less so against artillery and base defenses. AT drones for example, destroy Sentinels unless they're properly escorted.

I think Bradley would have something else other than just tanks when it is necessary , even if he is a tank general. Obviously not an aircraft, but a unique infantry or artillery vehicle shouldn't be impossible.

Griffon would probably have ground units dedicated to the support of the aircrafts above them, so I don't think he'll be a general that got crippled the moment his airfield toasted or when there are a large group of AAAs. Possibly, his jet will have something that will let them ignore defenses when needed like Goliath.

He's also the one who'll get the WASP hive, so a ground assault with an airforce general doesn't seem to be impossible if the situation requires.

Jin, I think would be the one to get spec ops infantry or even a sniper unit. That would fit him, as his army are about acting fast, shutting down the enemy instead of trying to out-match them toe to toe. Him having better infantry instead of heavier tanks would fit the theme really well.

Ibrahim's is Bio command, not toxin general. It means, he's most definitely not an anti-infantry yet useless vs everything else. Who to say, that there won't be a new kind of acid like weapon that corrodes tank armor? I imagine that he'll have a lots of debuff weapons, that may not outright destroy the enemy but severely weaken them. He'll control the map with area denial weapon.

Yusuuf will be the only one to get angry mobs and battle bus, so yes there is something other than stealth and suicidal units. But his direct assaults would probably not as effective if he hasn't weaken the enemy before.

Zhukov would most likely play like vanilla Russia minus the helicopters. Probably because it's a better idea to merge tank with ballistic missiles into one subfaction than leaving it as it is.

Wolfgang would, I imagine him being more infantry oriented rather than heavy armored vehicles. Combined arms, mechanized infantry supported by leopards and mobile artillery that is. It is speculated long ago that he'll get Panzer Grenadiers as replacement for basic infantry, and probably more heavy infantry units. The Jagdmammut is an odd one, but I think it's because he doesn't have gun turret. The Jagdmamut probably wouldn't be a unit that move along with your main forces, but stay behind to hold off a check point.

Charles is going to get Challenger, which might possibly be treated as a heavy tank rather than medium. He might have defenses that prioritized in long range damage or off map support over protection. It might turned out better than we think. Something similar to GLA overwatch ability wouldn't be out of the fire support theme.

For Willem, the only way I see that this general will be less frustrating to play as and fight against would be that his theme got expanded into like said, logistic. Having a way to deal with the money and reinforcements problem would allow him to play a more active role without increasing the offensive power of his units, rather than just "I HAVE TO SPAM GUN TURRETS AND TELECOM TOWERS TO SURVIVE" just like now.

Posted by: NikCaputnic 16 Dec 2016, 8:47

Side note for a TS: You, sir, can definetely compete with Leo Tolstoy and his "War and Peace" mani8.gif

Posted by: Gameman112358 16 Dec 2016, 9:46

QUOTE (NikCaputnic @ 15 Dec 2016, 23:47) *
Side note for a TS: You, sir, can definetely compete with Leo Tolstoy and his "War and Peace" mani8.gif


Yeah, the post is long, but it is speculation about 2.0 subfactions, and I wanted it to sound as constructive as possible. I know that players, testers, and devs are going to read this, so I figured; pack tons of details and questions. Questions and feedback aren't bad, after all. (Unless it's just straight sh*tposting, in which case, it is bad. XD)

Okay, time to deconstruct and analyze everything here:

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
I think Bradley would have something else other than just tanks when it is necessary , even if he is a tank general. Obviously not an aircraft, but a unique infantry or artillery vehicle shouldn't be impossible.


Bradley does get the generic U.S. air force to support his armor platoons, which isn't too bad from what I've seen. I'm not saying that he doesn't have a backup plan in case things go south, but he suffers IMO from the same problem that Griffon does: if your enemy brings huge amounts of anti tank units, he loses out on his speciality; armor platoons. Aleksandr's Shock Troopers for example would be able to stop entire tank platoons cold, which means that Bradley loses his advantages.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
Griffon would probably have ground units dedicated to the support of the aircrafts above them, so I don't think he'll be a general that got crippled the moment his airfield toasted or when there are a large group of AAAs. Possibly, his jet will have something that will let them ignore defenses when needed like Goliath.

He's also the one who'll get the WASP hive, so a ground assault with an airforce general doesn't seem to be impossible if the situation requires.


You do have a point here. Unlike Granger in ZH, Griffon still has access to the generic U.S. armor divisions. That means he can still produce Crusaders, Humvees, etc, so he can still support his aircraft on the ground if need be. My concern though comes from the fact that based on what I've seen on stream, T2 heavy AA almost always has a large escort going around with it, so ground forces will have a hard time taking down T2 AA. A lot of strong aircraft are reliant on air fields to maintain bombing runs; given how large the air fields are and how fragile they are, it wouldn't be hard for the enemy to either sneak in and demolish it, or straight up bum rush it and destroy it, which leads to Griffon losing his main advantage.

The WASP hive drones do get ignored by T2 AA, so it does prove to be handy dealing with enemy blobs and T2 AA, but like I said, T2 AA usually have escorts, which do include T1 AA, which can kill the drones. (Tunguskas, Gattling Tanks, etc.). Good point though with WASP hives making ground assault a possible tactic.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
Jin, I think would be the one to get spec ops infantry or even a sniper unit. That would fit him, as his army are about acting fast, shutting down the enemy instead of trying to out-match them toe to toe. Him having better infantry instead of heavier tanks would fit the theme really well.


The Chinese Secret Police are essentially propaganda specialists, hacking experts, surveillance, and covert ops all rolled up into one group. I think that's what the team is going for with General Jin. He is supposedly getting better infantry divisions, but I need someone like a tester or dev to confirm that. I personally think that having his hackers function more than just secondary eco would fit Jin's motif of having a division of hacking experts to wreak havoc via electronic warfare, but I think that comes a little too close to being a suggestion.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
Ibrahim's is Bio command, not toxin general. It means, he's most definitely not an anti-infantry yet useless vs everything else. Who to say, that there won't be a new kind of acid like weapon that corrodes tank armor? I imagine that he'll have a lots of debuff weapons, that may not outright destroy the enemy but severely weaken them. He'll control the map with area denial weapon.


I did know that Ibrahiim isn't going to be using 'just' toxins, considering that would really cause balance problems regarding factions relying on lots of armor divisions. What I'm curious about is what he is going to use regarding chemical and biological weapons. Is he going to use an acid bomb to erode his enemies armor divisions? Does he have a type of plague weapon that greatly debuffs enemy units? Stuff like that. Also, the combat drugs GP feels like it would thematically fit with Ibrahiim, given that combat drugs is a bio thing, but I'm not sure if that's exclusive to him or if all GLA get that power.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
Yusuuf will be the only one to get angry mobs and battle bus, so yes there is something other than stealth and suicidal units. But his direct assaults would probably not as effective if he hasn't weaken the enemy before.


That's what I mean. He can do direct assaults, but he's going to have trouble meeting them head on unless they've been weakened. That's where my worries come in; on stream, people usually have scouts that can see large portions of the map all over the place, and army groups almost always have stealth detectors, meaning that ambushes and sneak attacks won't work unless you can destroy the stealth detectors (Good luck, it's usually near the middle of the group itself).

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
Zhukov would most likely play like vanilla Russia minus the helicopters. Probably because it's a better idea to merge tank with ballistic missiles into one subfaction than leaving it as it is.


I mean, it is up to the devs in the end, I just want the reasoning behind why Russia's speciality is tactical ballistics and not something like heavy armor divisions or something like that.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
Wolfgang would, I imagine him being more infantry oriented rather than heavy armored vehicles. Combined arms, mechanized infantry supported by leopards and mobile artillery that is. It is speculated long ago that he'll get Panzer Grenadiers as replacement for basic infantry, and probably more heavy infantry units. The Jagdmammut is an odd one, but I think it's because he doesn't have gun turret. The Jagdmamut probably wouldn't be a unit that move along with your main forces, but stay behind to hold off a check point.


When I saw that Wolfgang is a German general, who is going to be the aggressive ECA subfaction, I instantly thought "tank blitzkriegs!"(Hope I didn't offend anyone here; I probably did. XD). When I hear the term "Mechanized Assault" I assumed he would, yes, have more heavy infantry, but also have some strong, beefy vehicles to function as a meat shield and the spearhead to an attack. Infantry alone would be easily torn apart, especially given that anti-infantry units aren't that expensive to make. You do make a good point about the Jagdmammut; no gun turret means that he needs something that can tear vehicles apart from far away, so it does make some sense, and its mobile, compared to the Gun Turret.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
Charles is going to get Challenger, which might possibly be treated as a heavy tank rather than medium. He might have defenses that prioritized in long range damage or off map support over protection. It might turned out better than we think. Something similar to GLA overwatch ability wouldn't be out of the fire support theme.


I don't know anything about the Challenger Tank, so that's up in the air. If his defenses functioned like off map howitzers or something like that, I would be less worried about him defending himself. My concern though is that Charles from what I know so far can't mount an effective strategy to defeat his enemy because most of his units are used to support an attack, not be the attack. Claymores for example suck ass against structures; they're better at shelling unit blobs, which tells me that they're more oriented towards supporting another attack force. I can sorta see him not being used in 1v1s, but be great in 2v2s. Could be wrong though.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 15 Dec 2016, 22:18) *
For Willem, the only way I see that this general will be less frustrating to play as and fight against would be that his theme got expanded into like said, logistic. Having a way to deal with the money and reinforcements problem would allow him to play a more active role without increasing the offensive power of his units, rather than just "I HAVE TO SPAM GUN TURRETS AND TELECOM TOWERS TO SURVIVE" just like now.


It would make more sense for his theme to be expanded into logistics and defense, but as I said earlier, it is up to the devs at the end of the day, and Willem is supposed to be the ECA faction's tactic taken to a whole new level. Base crawling is a viable strategy, but I doubt most ECA players will go for that strategy, given how time and energy it takes to do it. It makes sense in a way; Willem is basically turtling so hard that the other enemy tires out and gives up, but it's not going to be fun for either side, and I have no idea on how to improve on it without having to alter his theme.

Posted by: SoraZ 16 Dec 2016, 11:43

Bradley:
1. Will probably need a little less micro.
2. Kind of, yes.
3. He has a few tricks yet unrevealed for that purpose.

Thorn:
1. Versatility and sabotage. Some of his units will play up the trickery part.
2. Wait and see.

Griffon:
1. Auroras... and some other stuff.
2. The same you already know.
3. I'd say Thorn is more micro-intense.

Mau:
1. Foreward attack and overwhelming firepower with something for every part of the job.
2. That's incorrect.

Jin:
1. Wait and see, Jin is probably the least revealed General.
2. See #1.

Chen:
1. No, Chen has some tricks that allow versatility in a different sense than just brutal attacks like Mau.
2. Build moar tanks!

Sulaymaan:
We didn't make up "Warlord General", EA did.
1. Frontal attacks, Oil Sabotage is his and he is the reason why Tunnel Defenders were removed from Tunnels.
2. Expect "bought" units. Mercs are one, but most of his arsenal is taken from actual armies for money, in turn making him stronger so he gets more money and can buy more stuff (lore only).

Ibrahiim:
Yes, subversive is about "mean tricks" which Ibrahiim fits.
1. Acid weapons.
2. He has the Scud Launcher for one, but it's not his only artillery wink.gif

Yusuuf:
1. Destroy the stealth detectors, simple biggrin.gif
2. Intentionally. If Yusuuf can't beat the enemy quickly, he's fairly likely to loose.

Aleksandr:
1. Ogres upgrade same as Golems. Otherwise wait and see.
2. More focus on Shock Troopers. Put them into his super-APC and roll down the hills. Also other stuff not yet revealed.

Orlov:
Probably the weirdest subversive General.
1. Yes he's more versatile than the other two.
2. Send in choppers full of Spetznaz and beat the enemy into submission. Apply sabotage tactics where needed.

Zhukov:
1. Big splashy kaboom is kinda Russia's deal, along with good tanks.
2. Absolutely nobody ever said Zhukov has no helis. He does. They're just not Orlovs.

Wolfgang:
1. He's not known for speed, no. Mainly because he has lots of infantry that hit hard but are...slow.
2. No, mechanised means full incorporation of infantry with vehicles/vehicular support. His focus isn't the classic TANKZ so much as infantry WITH tanks.

Charles:
1. Challengers for one, a tank you'd expect for Russia. Generally he slowly creeps up and then bombs people into submission. Subversive because he has a few confusion-fu options and the versatile Harriers and Goshawks.
2. Possible? Also, Claymores are mainly against vehicle blobs.

Willem:
1. Kind of. The idea is that you place defences near the enemy to wall them in.
2. Counter-artillery.
3. Wait and see.

Posted by: Scud 16 Dec 2016, 12:08

I wish we can see units like the BTR APC and the BM-30 Smerch for Russia faction and the Centauro (wich I hope is a glass canon unit with the mobility of a Pandur) for ECA.

Posted by: GDIZOCOM 16 Dec 2016, 12:14

Related to Thorn and Orlov, I've been curious for sometime which subfaction will have to make bigger use of/be more reliant by nature on their infantry (and which will be better in terms of statistics). I'm taking a guess that it will be Thorn, but as entire arsenals are not yet revealed, I'll be holding my breath. Between all the subfactions they are the two which make the most mention of specialized infantry. I wouldn't be fitting any of the Chinese generals under the category since numbers are their main forte. I'd be surprised if any of them get infantry that could beat the likes of Thorn's and Orlov's.

Posted by: X1Destroy 16 Dec 2016, 12:28

QUOTE
Challengers for one, a tank you'd expect for Russia


So it's confirmed. Great.

QUOTE
BTR APC and the BM-30 Smerch


BTR is already a thing for Orlov, I think. But smerch is.......

Posted by: Shalom 16 Dec 2016, 12:29

QUOTE (GDIZOCOM @ 16 Dec 2016, 13:14) *
Between all the subfactions they are the two which make the most mention of specialized infantry. I wouldn't be fitting any of the Chinese generals under the category since numbers are their main forte. I'd be surprised if any of them get infantry that could beat the likes of Thorn's and Orlov's.


I'd be surprised it they don't - infantry has always been the remit of China. And by that I mean cost-effective infantry. Sure Thorn's infantry will beat China's infantry one for one, but that is irrelevant - China is supposed to win dollar for dollar if they can maintain the horde bonus. Unless we are talking about specialized infantry which deals AOE damage - then cost effectiveness becomes less relevant without proper micro.

Posted by: 3rdShockArmy 16 Dec 2016, 12:29

Way to go, OP. smile.gif This is the closest we can get to discussing 2.0, without being accused of fishing. wink.gif I really enjoyed reading this.
As for Russian helis, I think the Havoc will still pack one hell of a punch. The thing is, Havoc is not the Hind we all got used to. And IIRC, there'll be a replacement for the Hunchback for Zhukov and Aleksandr.

Posted by: Mizo 16 Dec 2016, 12:53

USA

General Bradly :

- Imagine the versatility of his tanks in combination with the defualt US airforce and infantry rosters, all are versatile in their own rights. He puts more emphasis on ground units in particularly tanks, and tank combat. His approach is not Russia's approach to tank warefare, but his playstyle revolves around winning tank battles in the most cost efficent of ways using a combination of well rounded tanks and widowmakers. He retains the mid game prowerss of the USA, while having a boasted Late game though I beleive it willl taper off during super late game, compared to the likes of tank focused Russia playstyles or Chinese Spam.


General Thron :

- Out of all the factions , Thorn will probably have the strongest early game presence, and map control out of the 3 USA generals due to the aaccess to elite infantry like SpecOps forces of Green Berets, Deltas and other elite infantry. He's the type of general that's going to be hard to play mainly during late game, because all of your engagements need alot of thought put into them, from every move you make, rather than having your decisions be reactionary based. This makes him the hardest to play not only due to micro requirement but also good game sense on what toe execute. That doesn't mean he is lacking in firepower it's just that his firepower is different. Under the right hands he's going to be EXTREMELY Brutal.

General Griffon :

- The only General in the game who will be capable to win with only an airforce openning, and disregard building a warfactory completely. What makes him different from Granger is that you still have access to tanks, mainly Crusaders but they're good in their own rights as meatsheilds. On top of that, his air arsenal scales ridiculously well into late game, to the point that if Griffon starts to operate on more than 3 airfields, the enemy is doomed. You all have a glympse of some of his toys like stealth comanches , nighthawks and vipers but there are many things hidden that will truely make him the Airforce supremist.


China :

General Mau :

- Mau focuses on heavy firepower and BOOM. This makes him ideal in war of attritions due to his wide array of special weapons , most notabely the EMP and Nuke weapons. His Artilery arsenal will probably be superior to the 2 due to the access of nukaneers and nuke cannons , as well as having his own heavy tank , the shenlong. In terms of versatility he has alot of it, the generic CHinese spam, the strong airforce, and a good artillery plus support arsenal at his disposal. He's probably going to be catered towards late game.


General Jin :

- I can't say much about Jin due to his information not revealed to the public. What's revealed is that he's the Secret Police General and he specializes in Electronic Warfare and Propeganda. Make that as you want, but what I can only tell you is that JIn will be the most interesting Chinese General due to his subversive nature. He retains the generic Chinese spam capabilities, but does not sepcialize in niether heavy firepower, nor heavy spam. His gameplay approach in fact, will be really unlike other generals in the game.


General Chen :

- He's going to be the lag general. His late game capabilities shall win him the game instantly through scorching his opponent's computers to ashes. He will force other players to buy better RAMs, CPUs , GPUs and all this good stuff. In all seriousness though , see how spammy China is right now? Multiply that by 10 , and add helixes and overlords in the mix. You hae a scary faction that is overall very balanced in early mid and late game. He puts China Spam on a whole different scale. His units are not represented as blips on map, but as huge de-formed blobby shapes of whatever color the player picked for him.


GLA :


General Sulayman :

- Sulayman is the general with all of the heavy weapons of the GLA. He forge subtelty and long range harassment for a more direct approach in warfare. His attrition war is incredible thanks to Sabotage. He will have a distinct arsenal from the normal generic GLA unit roster, due to his love for heavy weaponary and brutality..


General Ibrahim :


- Ibrahim is the Biochemical general, NOT TOXIN. Do not be fooled. There are alot of Bio Chemical weapons with a wide varaiety of effects. He has stuff that can melt tanks . and render infantry warfare against him nigh useless. Scud Launchers will be his core, and they're not gonna be your typical artillery unit.


General Yusuf :

- General Yusuf is probably the closest general to the generic GLA playstyle , since their theme is subtelty and ambushes ( not Quad Spamming tongue.gif ). This guy got alot of tools that will make all kinds of factions cry, whether they go defense focuses, infantry focused, tank focused or air focuses, Yusuf have everything to counter them in a unique way. He is a less direct combat guy but more of the type of guy who would slip through defenses unnoticed to then tear your base from the inside out.


Russial :


Zhukov :

- If you thought 440 Mstas were bad , wait unitl you meet this guy. Lets just say Zhukov is a beast, his wide varaiety of artillery peices will make his offensive and defensive capabilities ridiculously powerful. He's more of a " am gonna bombard you from 3 cities far" type of guy. Long range, powerful artillery mixed wtih the generic Russia heavy tanks.
He's going to be core.


Aleksander :

- Aleks sacrifice some of his heavy tank's heaviness in favor of FLASHY WEAPONS, more Damage, more brutality. He's going to lauch at GLA while they cry due to their buggies not doing a thing. He's going to Spearhead Chinese Blobs like they're a bunch of dirt. He's going to punch his way in through ECA defenses like they were some lego buildings.
His focus is on heavy infantry mixed with high damaging tanks and other peculiar weapons.


Orlov :

- The most versatile General in the game, will probably be the strongest in some cases. Imagine default Russia, imagine that but with a ridiculous early game presence that is only rivaled by General Thorn. To put it straight, this guy will maintain Russia's generic late game capabilities through sentinels and blackbears, while having the strongest Helicopter Arsenal in the game that cna help him alot mid game , and a solid early game that is 10 times stronger than current Russia's early game. Yeah you get the point.


ECA :


Willem :

- He's the Middle-Finger General. He basically brings his dozers, builds defenses and then simply points the middle finger at the enemey as the name suggests. Better Defenses , better dozer rushing capabilities , better stuff. He's the only general that can't be kicked out of an area at tier 0 map control contesting no matter how much you throw at him and his early game expansion.


Charles :


- If Zhukov is the type of guy who will bombard another from 3 cities away, Charles is the type of general who would bombard you from 3 countries away. And Make no Mistake, don't think Challengers are a joke. Heh, who's the real tank general is......Charles is ( in the great words of Knjaz). Charles is focused on heavy bombardment and endurance , making him the best candidate for Attrition warfare or prolonged ones. He also have the most annoying airforce in the from Goshawks to Harriers. His arsenal makes him the strongest late game general , that will probably be able to rival Russia during super late game, a feat that very few can accomplish.


Wolfgang :

- The most fun Hero to play, Wolfgang is not infantry spammed focused, nor tank spammed focuses. His gameplay is very remenicent of traditional German warfare tactics ( duh ) with mechanized infantry that work well only in combination wtih his vehicles and vice versa. This makes him able to ditch defensive approach and go for a purely offensive playstyle and still come on top.




As for the 2.0 Design, I can't guarantee it's going to be fully balanced for every matchup. There will be generals that have a harder matchup against specific others ( not close to the degree of ZH but it will noticeabely be harder) and other generals having a much easier time dealing with specific generals. Depending on how things goes, it can either resualt in a fairly balanced one albiet harder matchups, or "you pick this general against mine? lol gg" . Only time will tell...



Posted by: XAOC-RU- 16 Dec 2016, 12:54

I think we just need to wait and see what suprise devs are doing for us now:)

Posted by: Omnius64 16 Dec 2016, 13:59

Wait a minute. Isnt Alexsander the Faction Strength X2 subfaction, while Zhukov is the powerhouse one? I think you got it wrong, GameMan.

Posted by: SoraZ 16 Dec 2016, 14:17

QUOTE (Omnius64 @ 16 Dec 2016, 13:59) *
Wait a minute. Isnt Alexsander the Faction Strength X2 subfaction, while Zhukov is the powerhouse one? I think you got it wrong, GameMan.

No, Zhukov is default. Exaggerator is basicly "more of the same", which fits the bill with Zhukov: he has more tanks/vehicles, he has more big splash, more kaboom, more "classic Russian Awesome". Aleksandr is Powerhouse, since he has powerful infantry and super-hightech guns, and better, but not MORE better (so to say), tanks.

Granted, since Russia is the Powerhouse faction and one General of each faction is Powerhouse, there's some overlap here, with Zhukov being Powerhouse-Exaggerator and Aleksandr being Powerhouse-Powerhouse, so both are technically Powerhouse^2, just differently. Same with GLA, who are the Subversive faction, which means that Yusuuf (Subversive-Exaggerator) and Ibrahiim (Subversive-Subversive) are both in a way the Subversive^2 general.

Posted by: Black Raven 16 Dec 2016, 15:14

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 16 Dec 2016, 14:28) *
So it's confirmed. Great.



BTR is already a thing for Orlov, I think. But smerch is.......

If I am not mistaken, the developers said that they do not want to give for others nations units similar to the GLA GRAD
Soooo smerch better do not expect

Hmmm but the same words i heard about F-35 duhsov.png

Posted by: X1Destroy 16 Dec 2016, 15:44

Russia already have a planned general specific replacement for Msta and it will go to Zhukov, a ballistic missile launcher like the V3 in RA2. There is just no place for a Smerch without breaking the 2 out of 3 rule.

Unless, we're talking about armor reserves.

Posted by: GeneralCamo 16 Dec 2016, 16:12

QUOTE (Omnius64 @ 16 Dec 2016, 7:59) *
Wait a minute. Isnt Alexsander the Faction Strength X2 subfaction, while Zhukov is the powerhouse one? I think you got it wrong, GameMan.

You are correct.

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 16 Dec 2016, 8:17) *
No, Zhukov is default. Exaggerator is basicly "more of the same", which fits the bill with Zhukov: he has more tanks/vehicles, he has more big splash, more kaboom, more "classic Russian Awesome". Aleksandr is Powerhouse, since he has powerful infantry and super-hightech guns, and better, but not MORE better (so to say), tanks.

Granted, since Russia is the Powerhouse faction and one General of each faction is Powerhouse, there's some overlap here, with Zhukov being Powerhouse-Exaggerator and Aleksandr being Powerhouse-Powerhouse, so both are technically Powerhouse^2, just differently. Same with GLA, who are the Subversive faction, which means that Yusuuf (Subversive-Exaggerator) and Ibrahiim (Subversive-Subversive) are both in a way the Subversive^2 general.

Ehh... MARS stated this differently.
QUOTE (MARS @ 25 Aug 2014, 11:08) *
Zhukov is the 'heavy' Russian General by virtue of the fact that he has standard ground assault units (BMP, Kodiak, Sentinel) as well as superior artillery compared to the others, the pinnacle of which being the Topol. Aleks on the other hand is the 'exaggerated' Russian General because his tactic boils down to the standard Russian tank/helicopter assault, but with even more brute force. Golems may be lighter than Sentinels, but they are more efficient, he's got his Ogres which are superior to Kodiaks and he has heavy assault infantry in the form of his Shocktroopers, as well as some other goodies.


So, this is the Russian General Doctrines:

Posted by: Gameman112358 16 Dec 2016, 17:47

There's a lot of overlap between Zhukov and Aleksandr. I wasn't exactly sure who was supposed to be exaggerating the faction strength and who is the powerhouse when I wrote this. I pretty much went with what I heard recently: Zhukov is the faction strengthx2 and Aleksandr is the powerhouse. If it's the other way around, I'll keep that in mind in future posts. smile.gif

Posted by: *atmospheric* 16 Dec 2016, 18:07

Pretty nice and interesting reads from everyone so far. However, I would like to know the versatility with their primary & secondary abilities for all the hero units for all those generals of their respective factions. Is it possible for someone to lay it out for a glance and know whats coming in 2.0? smile.gif

Posted by: EuroStep 16 Dec 2016, 18:09

QUOTE (Mizo @ 16 Dec 2016, 12:53) *
As for the 2.0 Design, I can't guarantee it's going to be fully balanced for every matchup.

That's understandable; with 15 different armies to choose from, that's pretty much impossible. Also, there's a luck factor (going random) that makes it even more interesting.

Posted by: SoraZ 16 Dec 2016, 19:38

QUOTE (GeneralCamo @ 16 Dec 2016, 16:12) *
Ehh... MARS stated this differently.


So, this is the Russian General Doctrines:
  • Orlov: Subversive
  • Aleksandr: Exaggerated
  • Zhukov: Heavy

Well that was at a time when the design docs wasn't nearly as sophisticated. By now, I'd say they switched positions. It would be best if MARS himself clears it up because I don't want false information here or elsewhere.

Edit: I asked MARS for clarity and he's stated that Zhukov is the Powerhouse while Aleksandr is the Exaggerator. Guess I have some work to do. So here, in not nearly as many words as in the discussion:

Aleksandr is the Exaggerator since he's mostly doing what a theoretical "default" Russia does: mechanised assault, just with additional infantry, a super-APC etc. What he brings to the table is his powerful infrastructure (default 12-SWR-strong powerplants) and good defence (the Tesla Coil). Zhukov meanwhile also can do Russia's mechanised assault, but he has a huge amount of artillery to do so, compared to the otherwise sole option for Russia, the Gorgon, and some new-tricks support infantry. So basicly, Aleksandr adds something to the gameplay, but Zhukov adds MORE, and by that logic, Aleksandr is "more of the same" while Zhukov is "more NEW kaboom".

Posted by: Die Hindenburg 17 Dec 2016, 6:57

Wowy, so many fishes of sizes and looks! 8)

Posted by: Woody_Sheriff 17 Dec 2016, 18:11

Hi!

First post, so please do not hurt me biggrin.gif !

Always thoght the genarals will be in three groups:
- Do what faction strength: Griffon (air power and micro), Chen (brutal force and spam), Yusuuf (sneaky), Aleksandr (powerhouse), Willem (turtling)
- Compansate for faction weaknes: Bradley (more land less micro), Jin (more subversion), Sulaymaan (more open), Orlov (more sneaky), Wolfgang (more mobile)
- Do special faction theme: Thorn (spec ops), Mau (EMP flame and nukes), Ibrahim (toxin), Zhukov (max damage), Charles (artillery)

Is not this right?

My problem is the generals have generic names and not describing like in Generals 2. Names like 1000 Suns and Wild Dog are so cool and tell what general does!

Posted by: MARS 17 Dec 2016, 18:24

We tend to use a different three category system: One general is the specialist or 'exaggerator', to use a recently coined term, in that he takes the core element of a faction and takes it to an extreme (Griffon's air power, Chen's spam, Aleksandr's brute force, Yusuuf's guerilla tactics, Willem's fortifications). One is the Powerhouse, in that he adds a brute force/heavyweight element that the core faction is lacking (Bradley's tanks, Mau's special effect weapons, Zhukov's versatile long range weaponry, Sulaymaan's assault forces, Wolfgang's offensive capabilities). One is the Subversive, in that he hads more tactical/trickery oriented elements that are less pronounced in the core faction (Thorn's versatile infantry, Jin's electronic warfare, Orlov's airborne mobility, Ibrahiims toxin trickery, Charles' air power and support options). This is the distinction that is commonly used here on the forums, but yours (faction's strength, compensation for a weakness, special gimmick) isn't necessarily wrong either. Point is, there are certain patterns behind the theme choices that you can recognise across all the factions, instead of Zero Hour's system where each general just represented a single random element of the faction (USA lasers, air power, superweapons; Chinese nukes, tanks, infantry; GLA toxins, stealth, explosives)

As for the names, some of them do actually have nicknames in their backstories:

USA Air Force: Eugene Griffon, pilot nickname "Guile"
USA Tank Command: Jeremiah "Treads" Bradley
USA Special Forces: Francis "Chessmaster" Thorn, who also went by the callsign "Papa Dragon"
PRC Red Army: Chen Xing, dubbed "The Hammer" in a state-produced propaganda film about his exploits
RUS Tactical Ballistics: Leonid Vasilyevich Zhukov, known as "Father Leonid" among his troops for his caring nature
GLA Terror Cell: Abdul bin Yusuuf, dubbed "Blackbeard" for visible reasons, likely by foreign contacts or agencies
GLA Warlord: Anwar Sulaymaan, internationally known as "The Death Merchant" for his high-profile arms deals
GLA Bio Command: Tahar Ibrahiim, dubbed "The Frenchman" for his nationality
ECA Mechanised Assault: Wolfgang von Kürten, dubbed "The Huntsman" for his relentless pursuit of GLA forces

Others do not have established nicknames, but have gone by in some stories callsigns: Orlov used "Oryol" during his operations in Africa, South America and Europe and Aleksandr was called upon as "Chernobog"

Posted by: Scud 17 Dec 2016, 20:51

QUOTE (Mizo @ 16 Dec 2016, 8:53) *
Scud Launchers will be his core, and they're not gonna be your typical artillery unit.


I hope the Scud Launcher is like a Claymore (great range) but with long reload time and a really bad accuracy. Like the Scud-C: "Its range was brought up to 500–600 km, but at the cost of a greatly reduced accuracy and warhead size" or the Scud-B, 'cause it was "the most prolific of the series, with a production run estimated at 7,000. It served in 32 countries and four countries besides the Soviet Union manufactured copied versions" wich explains how the GLA get their hands on it, also "the Scud-B could carry nuclear, chemical, conventional HE warheads".

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud

Posted by: SoraZ 17 Dec 2016, 21:02

QUOTE (Scud @ 17 Dec 2016, 20:51) *
I hope the Scud Launcher is like a Claymore (great range) but with long reload time and a really bad accuracy. Like the Scud-C: "Its range was brought up to 500–600 km, but at the cost of a greatly reduced accuracy and warhead size" or the Scud-B, 'cause it was "the most prolific of the series, with a production run estimated at 7,000. It served in 32 countries and four countries besides the Soviet Union manufactured copied versions" wich explains how the GLA get their hands on it, also "the Scud-B could carry nuclear, chemical, conventional HE warheads".

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud

It will probably be more like its Russian-used cousin, the Topol.

Posted by: Gameman112358 18 Dec 2016, 9:11

QUOTE (EuroStep @ 16 Dec 2016, 9:09) *
That's understandable; with 15 different armies to choose from, that's pretty much impossible. Also, there's a luck factor (going random) that makes it even more interesting.


Wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of problems trying to balance matches between generals, due to the asymmetrical nature of the game's factions and upcoming subfactions. Each subfaction will have its own unique theme, which isn't going to be an easy thing to balance. One subfaction might have an easier time dealing with a certain faction tactic, while another subfaction will struggle to deal with the said tactic. Trying to keep generals unique while making sure matchups aren't horrifically one sided/broken is going to be REALLY difficult. Dev team has a lot of work ahead of them when 1.87 comes out and 2.0 development starts. But I have faith that the dev team and the testers will make all of the generals a blast to use. smile.gif

Posted by: Purple 18 Dec 2016, 11:24

Speaking of unique themes, one concern I have is that they are going to focus the generals a tad too much and thus make them inflexible. Like there is already talk of severely limiting the GP choices and that alone could make them rather predictable. So like, how much variety are the generals going to have when it comes to those?

Posted by: X1Destroy 18 Dec 2016, 12:49

Guys, it's not like all of you haven't played games with like 10 factions before (Soulstorm, Mental Omega, ect...). Ofcourse X OP vs Y and Y UP vs Z problems exists and balance get changed from time to time but in the end post-development wise there would still be imperfection anyway. If you're looking for SC competitive balance then you might as well just go play mirror matches.

At the very least it's not outright "LOL, you're airforce so no you can't build tanks and minigunners rape you and that's it." kind of balance like in old ZH. Now that is real stupidity.

I believe that the devs will keep making things fresh and even more interesting mechanics will be introduced, as they have proven before. We may not play as ours favourite faction and win all the time but the huge diversity would keep us from not trying it again and again.

Posted by: Gameman112358 19 Dec 2016, 0:06

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 18 Dec 2016, 3:49) *
Guys, it's not like all of you haven't played games with like 10 factions before (Soulstorm, Mental Omega, ect...). Ofcourse X OP vs Y and Y UP vs Z problems exists and balance get changed from time to time but in the end post-development wise there would still be imperfection anyway. If you're looking for SC competitive balance then you might as well just go play mirror matches.

At the very least it's not outright "LOL, you're airforce so no you can't build tanks and minigunners rape you and that's it." kind of balance like in old ZH. Now that is real stupidity.

I believe that the devs will keep making things fresh and even more interesting mechanics will be introduced, as they have proven before. We may not play as ours favourite faction and win all the time but the huge diversity would keep us from not trying it again and again.


I've actually played Mental Omega before, and I know that its pretty much near impossible to get perfect balance in that game, simply because some factions do better than others in certain circumstances. If I wanted SC competitive balance in a game, I would go play SC. tongue.gif As long as none of the subfactions are ridiculously one sided (Like you mentioned with the ZH Air Force General example), then I don't mind imperfections balance wise simply because unique, fun play styles are more fun than every general being balanced to the point they're bland and boring like factions are in SC.

Posted by: {Lads}RikerZZZ 19 Dec 2016, 2:12

If you think the races in starcraft are boring tone obviously never looked that deep into the games mechanics.

Posted by: X1Destroy 19 Dec 2016, 5:05

SC's approach is about "less is more". Stuffs have lots of interesting gimicks since the old times but that was it. It never get pass the core design once, as it considered itself perfect. Warcraft is more interesting yet it end in its own success and never see another sequel again.
C&C games at least actually try to change, for better or worse is a different matter altogether.

Posted by: MARS 19 Dec 2016, 6:33

The problem with ZH subfaction balance was that for each thing a faction had as a unique element, more of the standard things were taken away: Tank General had superior Battlemasters and Emperors, but no artillery as well as costlier aircraft and infantry. Infantry General had better infantry and OP Minigunners, but no tanks. Not a single US general had access to Paladin tanks and they all had some combination of lacking/more expensive Crusaders and Tomahawks. The reason why the Nuclear General was so popular was because he was pretty much the only one who gained all sorts of cool nuclear-themed weapons but didn't lose anything fundamental in return.

In ROTR, the approach is different: Air-oriented generals like Griffon and Orlov will have tanks - on the same vanilla level of the US and Russia respectively. Ground-assault generals like Bradley, Zhukov and all the Chinese ones will have access to aircraft and helicopters - on the same vanilla level of the US, Russia and China respectively. Simply put, the ROTR approach to subfactions is that each general retains all the necessary tools of a well-rounded faction - infantry, tanks, artillery, air units - and their unique specialisations merely add to or modify these. This is also the reason why, aside from the technical implementation, there is simply no need for unspecialised vanilla factions: Every general contains all the tools that a vanilla faction would have and their unique focus only adds to that, without anything 'off-doctrine' being taken away or artificially weakened.

Posted by: Gameman112358 19 Dec 2016, 9:20

Speaking of Griffon, I actually have a question about him: Why is he considered to be the 'Faction Strength Exaggerated' general? Sounds kinda silly to ask, but I'm bringing this up now because I was looking at some of the other threads regarding how the U.S. in its current form really plays out as (A generalist, Jack-of-all-trades, master of none faction), and I remember another thread saying that while the other 4 factions' generals are making the faction have more tools at their disposal (Basically giving the other factions more tactics instead of just using the same tactic; ECA defense spam for example), the U.S. generals are going the opposite direction, giving the faction more specializations instead. Is it because Griffon is basically vanilla U.S. with extra powerful aircraft on top?

Posted by: Shalom 19 Dec 2016, 10:07

QUOTE (MARS @ 19 Dec 2016, 7:33) *
The problem with ZH subfaction balance was that for each thing a faction had as a unique element, more of the standard things were taken away: Tank General had superior Battlemasters and Emperors, but no artillery as well as costlier aircraft and infantry. Infantry General had better infantry and OP Minigunners, but no tanks. Not a single US general had access to Paladin tanks and they all had some combination of lacking/more expensive Crusaders and Tomahawks. The reason why the Nuclear General was so popular was because he was pretty much the only one who gained all sorts of cool nuclear-themed weapons but didn't lose anything fundamental in return.

In ROTR, the approach is different: Air-oriented generals like Griffon and Orlov will have tanks - on the same vanilla level of the US and Russia respectively. Ground-assault generals like Bradley, Zhukov and all the Chinese ones will have access to aircraft and helicopters - on the same vanilla level of the US, Russia and China respectively. Simply put, the ROTR approach to subfactions is that each general retains all the necessary tools of a well-rounded faction - infantry, tanks, artillery, air units - and their unique specialisations merely add to or modify these. This is also the reason why, aside from the technical implementation, there is simply no need for unspecialised vanilla factions: Every general contains all the tools that a vanilla faction would have and their unique focus only adds to that, without anything 'off-doctrine' being taken away or artificially weakened.



So, from the standpoint of unit rooster, basically all generals are a (ROTR) Vanilla faction with either the Vanilla basic units or better equivalents plus their own unique units minus the unique units of other generals that we have access to in a the pre-2.0 version?

Posted by: Mizo 19 Dec 2016, 10:12

QUOTE
Is it because Griffon is basically vanilla U.S. with extra powerful aircraft on top?


Yep. Playstyle wise it'll retain the ground-air support, albiet being very good at the air part, but the core aspects remain the same. You need micro to make it work.

Bradley on the other hand plays differently from the vanilla USA in that while he's slower than the conventional USA general in responses, he makes up for it by having stronger armor and ground presence that can go on par with Russia while retaining the defualt US airpower ( but becoming less of a nessessity unlike the default US faction).

Thorn is completely different from any conventional playstyle that neither focuses on heavy tanks nor on supreme air power , but something else, hence why he's subversive.

Posted by: X1Destroy 19 Dec 2016, 10:23

First thing came to my mind whenever Thorn is mentioned should be MOAR HUMVEES!

Then again, his theme is actually the most expanded of the three. Special Forces could be special vehicles, spec ops infantry and even drone and aircrafts, intel mechanics......

Looks like a very fun guy to use, but since he's gonna need even more micro and plannings ahead it's definitely not gonna be an easy choice.

Posted by: Gameman112358 19 Dec 2016, 10:59

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 19 Dec 2016, 1:23) *
First thing came to my mind whenever Thorn is mentioned should be MOAR HUMVEES!

Then again, his theme is actually the most expanded of the three. Special Forces could be special vehicles, spec ops infantry and even drone and aircrafts, intel mechanics......

Looks like a very fun guy to use, but since he's gonna need even more micro and plannings ahead it's definitely not gonna be an easy choice.


I imagine the subversive generals are probably going to be much more difficult to utilize and play with, but are going to be far more rewarding if you can play them right. Especially Thorn and Jin, I think, given that both focus around intel gathering, sabotage, and spec ops infantry groups. Orlov is gong to be highly versatile, given his arsenal is subversive + Russia's powerhouse combined, Ibrahiim is going to be a pain in the ass to fight against, given his use of chemical and biological warfare, and Charles' artillery is going to be annoying, since he can bombard you from so far away. To take a quote from the Gorgon: "My diagnosis? SHELL SHOCK!". That's what the player feels like after facing Charles. XD

Posted by: X1Destroy 19 Dec 2016, 11:09

Charles having a heavier tank than the Kodiak is proof that his stuffs are no joke. Combined with ECA defense style his enemy would have to take massive casualties if they want to get in close and defeat him. Probably the bloodiest match up would be Chen vs Charles. One focus on never ending reinforcements while the other just stay afar and bombard everything non-stop while building more walls, tanks and snipers to prevent any chance of a breakthrough. Would be a wonderful sight to see however.

Posted by: SoraZ 19 Dec 2016, 11:21

QUOTE (Shalom @ 19 Dec 2016, 10:07) *
So, from the standpoint of unit rooster, basically all generals are a (ROTR) Vanilla faction with either the Vanilla basic units or better equivalents plus their own unique units minus the unique units of other generals that we have access to in a the pre-2.0 version?


Exactly. The non-Generals version of ROTR is really a crutch, there are no base factions meant to exist in 2.0 since, as has been said several times, every General has the base assets and then only adds special replacements or unique things on top of that. Nobody loses any core assets. Thorn still has tanks. Bradley still has aircraft. Mau still can horde. Ibrahiim can still disguise a Bomb Truck and shove it up his enemy's... flank. Willem can still tank assault... and so on and on.

So to illustrate it in a generic but clear way:



QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 19 Dec 2016, 10:59) *
I imagine the subversive generals are probably going to be much more difficult to utilize and play with, but are going to be far more rewarding if you can play them right. Especially Thorn and Jin, I think, given that both focus around intel gathering, sabotage, and spec ops infantry groups. Orlov is gong to be highly versatile, given his arsenal is subversive + Russia's powerhouse combined, Ibrahiim is going to be a pain in the ass to fight against, given his use of chemical and biological warfare, and Charles' artillery is going to be annoying, since he can bombard you from so far away. To take a quote from the Gorgon: "My diagnosis? SHELL SHOCK!". That's what the player feels like after facing Charles. XD


Subversive Generals will require more attention, yes, since they are basicly the "Here's some new, mean tricks" Generals.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 19 Dec 2016, 11:09) *
Charles having a heavier tank than the Kodiak is proof that his stuffs are no joke.


On par, maybe, but certainly not heavier.

Posted by: IntoTheRain 19 Dec 2016, 18:17

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 19 Dec 2016, 5:05) *
SC's approach is about "less is more". Stuffs have lots of interesting gimicks since the old times but that was it. It never get pass the core design once, as it considered itself perfect. Warcraft is more interesting yet it end in its own success and never see another sequel again.
C&C games at least actually try to change, for better or worse is a different matter altogether.


What?

First, CnC games don't change, at least not really. They have used the same tech tree, damage model, unit types, and game compositions since 1995. There is movement towards making some unit types more viable, (infantry, aircraft) and adding some special abilities, but for the most part its the same game its always been. If you are decent at one CnC, then chances are you can be decent at any of them. Thats not change.

Second, Starcraft has changed dramatically over the years, far more so than CnC could ever dream. Doing so is necessary because Starcraft's design is so asymmetrical that balancing it is an incredible feat all its own. Saying it never got past 'core design' is incredibly dismissive. NO ONE tries to make 3 asymmetrical races work - its an insane task to find ways to balance it all, and extremely impressive that they have gotten so close.

Warcraft, at least WC3, works because it literally wrote its own genre, (again, breaking new ground) and you will definitely see a sequel at some point. The only question is when since Blizzard non WoW releases seem to come about once a decade.

Third, (and this is a general rant not just directed at you) fuck the word Gimmick. Its such an overused term used to discredit any new idea that someone doesn't understand.

Posted by: Shottkey7thPath 20 Dec 2016, 8:16

Hey, first time post here. signed up to try out the new beta and loving the hell out of it. Been following this mods since i remember before ECA was a thing for it on Moddb.

Anyways, while its interesting to think what the generals will get and their strengthens are, what about their weaknesses/deficiencies in certain fields? and i prefer to classify them as Light (Subversive) Heavy (Powerhouse) and Specialist (Faction X2)

Here are my takes and predictions how the generals will play out. and of course its likely they might be completely wrong.

USA is the primer Micro faction with some of the highest mobility that is only matched or exceeded by the GLA. and their lasers and Countermeasures gives them the ability to ignore damage. weaknesses being not being able to stand up to punishment, mediocre when brute forced and units being investments.

So USA Light, Spec Ops i imagine their strength of course is their mobility but also high quality infantry. Their unique Firebase with its garrison slots synchronizes with their infantry. and pathfinders can slaughter approaching infantry with it. and so can the Delta Force Ops with their machine guns. and his Mule Drones which gives firepower buffs. being Infantry, they can easily be transported by air in large numbers. the Avenger is said to be exclusive to him, so the defense lasers also help with avoiding damage.

Weaknesses though, of course would the weakest in taking damage. but with Blackhawks, Ospreys, Chinooks and Pavelows, using them to relocate your troops like the Delta Forces Mortar barrarges from an enemy response should be your best bet. basically avoid taking damage instead of tanking. also because of how the laser defense lasers work, they would be little use against China's Flaks.

-

USA Heavy; Tank Command. Strengths, it's tanks obviously. but also combines with USA's high mobility. giving USA a rather unique blend of speed and firepower. also the defense lasers of the Paladin and Bradley allows them to ignore a degree of missile damage. Has the Composite armour upgrade.

Weaknesses: While the fastest of the Heavies, they are the 2nd least "tankiest" Heavy. since it seems that the Paladin would be the Heaviest tank USA will get. so it would be foolish to go against say Russia's heavy tank fleets. but since USA has access to powerful gunships, a combined arms tactic should be used. as well as the Microwave tanks to disable high risk enemy units and protect against Terrorists, Hijackers, Angry Mobs.

-

USA Specialist. Air Force. Strengths, Obviously, it's airforce. the stealthy Commache combined with a variety of airforce options, it should not be a stretch to assume he will get abilities for his aircraft to ignore damage. (possibly point defense lasers or a Goliath system like upgrade). the WASP Hive i think is kinda brilliant. a force of those should be good at distracting enemy anti-air like Quads and missile troop from their aircraft. possibly have access to "cannon fodder" aircraft like the Acolyte drones from Shockwave to district heavy Anti-Aircraft?

Weaknesses: expect his ground forces to suffer to some degree. and the Crusader will likely be the heaviest ground unit they can field. the Crusader will still fill a vital role within this subfaction's arsenal but it would lack the Composite Armour. Stuff like Patriots and Grumbles would hit this faction particularly hard though.

-

China of course has the numbers on its side. Cheap, mass producable tanks and infantry. though poor in performance unless under influence of Horde and Propaganda. lacks finesse.

China Light; Secret Police. This one i feel have trouble figuring out but i think its safe to say they would have superior map awareness capabilities. to the point that the fog-of-war is a non issue to this general. that it would be almost impossible to hide from them. also if the Propaganda Airship is anything to go by, their strengths are administrating buffs to friendlies with Propaganda related quirks. also ECM Tank would give them damage ignore capabilities. also may get a red guard replacement. (possibly a PLA Regular/Rifleman?)

Weaknesses: Would be unable to build a big army like Red Army Gen or one with a punch like Special Weapons. if map awareness advantage is true, then this general should have early warnings giving the player ample time to prepare.

-

China Heavy: Special Weapons. Strenghts are heavy hitting. in a way a blend between Russia's punch and China's Numbers. The Disrupter Teams and Nuke Weapons lets you punish the enemy from a distance and have significant firepower by themselves even without horde. Versatile Han Gunships

Weaknesses. Judging by the Minigunners, Nukeneers, Disrupters and Nuke Cannon. Their primary damage dealers require deployment. likely making them particularly vulnerable to fast enemies. and the units themselves look like considerable investments by themselves so hording would not be economical aside from red guards and battlemasters.

-

China Specialist: Red Army. strengths is obvious. being able to make an army so huge the SAGE engine crashes. like to have Horde related upgrades and bonuses. production advantages.

-

Weaknesses. perhaps the most inflexible army of all. its sheer size would be difficult to micromanage and would offer little benefit regardless. units would lack any secondary function since they are to be used in groups. Helix might offer much needed mobility but even then it's slow and better suited for supporting assaults. not sure what degree of customization it will have.


-

Everyones favorite orky mad-max middle eastern crypto-islamist ragtag bunch of misfits and junkyard engineers. having the highest mobility on par if not exceeding the USA. having the advantage of Stealth and black market bounties. could practically be swimming in cash when fully upgraded with bounties and arms merchants. but junk engineering does not hold up to the standards of a fully industrialized country.

GLA Light: Bio Command. Strengths are likely having some of the best AoE weapons. Very good area denial measures and would likely focus on debuffing the enemy with toxins. also something about "thermite" weapons that sounds like damage over time weapons for enemy vehicles. and buffs like Combat Drugs. "chain reaction" chemical weapons. becuase of this, might have some of the best defense capabilities of the GLA

Weaknessees: lacking "punch". BioCom might rely on quickly applying damage over a short period of time then delivering a good knockout punch. tough units might easily work their way through BioComs attacks and ravage your forces. also the indiscriminate nature of toxins would likely make your own weapons a threat to your forces if you are not careful.

-

GLA Heavy: Warlord. Marauder Tanks, Mercenaries, Salvage Armour? a total opposite to Biocom. Rely on doing large amounts of damage in a short period of time. and combined with GLA's high mobility with tunnels.

Weaknesses. likely expensive and cannot take much damage due to ramshackle nature. might be the most micro-intensive of the "Heavy" subfactions to compete with the other Heavies. may have weakest stealth capabilities.

-

GLA Specialist: Terror Cell. maximizing "knockout punch" damage through their suicide units. best stealth and camouflage abilities. also versatility. Angry Mobs and Insurrection.

Weaknesses: their most damaging units are likely single use only. embodies the "Glass Cannon" trope with possibly their Battle Bus being the hardest unit in their arsenal. and even then that requires passengers to be combat capable. Angry Mobs while capable of doing tremendous amounts of damage, are not subtle and can be annihilated with the correct weapon used against them. (Commanche, Dragon Tank, Gepard, Buratino, Toxin Tractor)

-

Russia, Star of show, the top billing. tough Tanks but weak economy. cheap Conscripts to meat shield your armored investments and a terrifying but somewhat limited airforce.

Russia Light: Rapid Deployment: Basically Russian Air Force. having the lions share of Russian Helicopters with the Hellion, Hunchback and Hind, and advanced infantry with the Spetsnaz. VDV Support and possibly a heavy lift transport that can carry a Kodiak or two. and possibly exclusive use of the Goliath system.

Weakness: honestly i have trouble finding the weaknesses for this general aside from the standard cost inefficiency of Russian Units until they get an Industrial Plant. likely his weaknesses are the lack of survivabilty tools for his ground units. possibly lack the ERA upgrade for his tanks?

-

Russia Heavy/Specialist?: Tactical Ballistics: honestly think there is much overlap with Advanced Weapons. but i think the biggest difference is while AdvWeps punches through the enemy, TacBal forms a firing line and shoots the opponent into submission. might be some overlap with ECA. but likely TacBal would reward a more aggressive playstyle compared to a ECA with artillery (which would reward being more conservative). but the Gorgon double gun system and compression engines would give you a range advantage over your opponents. also Topol-M and Don Missiles to soften the enemy before the attack.

Weaknesses. i have trouble finding the weaknesses for this general aside from the standard cost inefficiency of Russian Units until they get an Industrial Plant. honestly not enough to go off of. maybe lacks any air transport capabilities.

-

Russian Specialist/Heavy?: like mentioned before, Overlap with Tactical Ballistics. but i think the differences would be hyper aggressive playstyle. you send your forces into enemy defenses and take them out before they do. Acess to the Shtora systems that allow his units to ignore damage by being untargetable for a few moments. approaching the enemy base with Shtora and doing as much damage as possible before it wears off. Shock Troopers and Tesla Weaponry. Gets the Golem tank.

Weakness. i have trouble finding the weaknesses for this general aside from the standard cost inefficiency of Russian Units until they get an Industrial Plant. however quite possibly have the worst long range options of all Russian subfactions. Maybe lack the Gorgon entirely? also Lack the Sentinel tank (unless you perfer the Golem) but should have the Blackbear.


I guess if AdvWeps and TacBal are to be compared, it would be like a Close Combat Specialists vs Gunlines.
-

I have not played enough ECA to think of how they might possible work though. however I do think the Bloodhound is such a welcome addition i don't think i can ever imagine ECA without them now.

Posted by: X1Destroy 20 Dec 2016, 10:05

Uh...Tactical Ballistic won't be using coalition gun because he have a replacement for that, which isn't a howitzer at all. That means the other 2 will be using Gorgon as theirs choice for artillery, so no Aleksandr without Gorgon.

If the old plans didn't change then Russia and China will be the only factions that have no way to quickly transport tanks. So no Kodiak carrier for Orlov either.

I agree though, the Russian generals doesn't seems to have much obvious weaknesses aside from the ones inherited from the vanilla factions which is the cost and the slow speed of theirs tanks. Orlov is also the least affected of all, as he retained the helicopters. But we still don't know much about what the other 2 will get.

Advance Weapons is the exaggerated faction, railgun and tesla inflicted pure damage to a single enemy yet lack the capabilities to fight large hordes. Tactical Ballistic on the other hand is the opposite of that. Both of them use super heavy tanks to breakthrough however, so they're still very similar.

Posted by: SoraZ 20 Dec 2016, 11:07

On Thorn/Special Forces:
1. Where, exactly, do people get these information? Avengers are NOT exclusive to Thorn. You can easily find out by looking at the thing - does it feature Thorn's insignia? No.

On Jin/Secret Police:
1. Why do you think he'd have trouble building up a big army? Propaganda Airships are basicly made to support big armies with lots of propaganda and inspiring frenzy.

On Mau/Special Weapons:
1. Like I said on the first page, Minigunners are not exclusive to Mau.

On Chen/Red Army:
1. Chen's units will have the same abilities as any other. Tank Hunters can still throw TNT. Red Guards can still fix bayonets. Overlords can obviously customize. Gattling Tanks can still dakka tongue.gif Again, you seem to be yet another person who thinks that any given General in ROTR will loose functions like it's ZH all over again to make up for their new toys. It's not like that.

On Ibrahiim/Bio Command:
1. Mostly correct, but Ibrahiim employs a new class of weaponry based on acids to deal with armour, so that's covered. He also has the Scud Launcher to punch holes into enemy defence lines.

On Sulaymaan/Warlord:
1. Only unique units may be expensive, base units like the Technical will not be artificially more expensive for any General.

On Yusuuf/Terror Cell:
1. Insurrection (if you mean the big mob) is a generic GP. If you mean the 3-level "Ambush", then you're right.

On Orlov/Rapid Deployment:
1. ERA isn't exclusive to anyone.
2. Orlov's unique upgrade is Thermobaric Ordnance, not Goliath.
3. Orlov's weakness is the basic Russian weakness of incredibly expensive units. His Spetznaz, while good, are definitely more expensive and unlike vehicles they cannot be made cheaper. His airforce, while better, is also more expensive on default. In that way, like Russia has ever been, he's most vulnerable in the early game.

On Zhukov/Tactical Ballistics:
1. Zhukov is Powerhouse, as has been established and confirmed earlier. I'm in part to blame for the confusion.
2. Zhukov doesn't use the Gorgon.

On Aleksandr/Advanced Weapons:
1. Since Zhukov is Powerhouse, conversely Aleksandr is Exaggerator.
2. He has the Gorgon, just like Orlov.
3. Personally I prefer the Golem; and yes, he also has the Blackbear of course, since it's an independant super Sentinel which isn't produced so much as "follows the call for help from comrades the world over" tongue.gif
4. Tactics-wise, Aleksandr is the go-all-out General. His incredibly high-damage units forego any kind of subtlety and just shoot, shoot and shoot some more. He also has a kind of super-APC, the details of which are not revealed, but fill it with Shock Troopers and roll it down the hills - enemies too foolish to flee will soon be no more.

Posted by: Shottkey7thPath 20 Dec 2016, 11:56

Thanks for keeping me up to date. most of what i have heard i think are outdated by a couple years last i checked.

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 20 Dec 2016, 11:07) *
On Thorn/Special Forces:
1. Where, exactly, do people get these information? Avengers are NOT exclusive to Thorn. You can easily find out by looking at the thing - does it feature Thorn's insignia? No.

Sweet. i love my laser light shows on wheels

On Jin/Secret Police:
1. Why do you think he'd have trouble building up a big army? Propaganda Airships are basicly made to support big armies with lots of propaganda and inspiring frenzy.

well meant comparatively, to the other two. he is gonna get bigger armies then the other factions i know

On Mau/Special Weapons:
1. Like I said on the first page, Minigunners are not exclusive to Mau.

news to me. and it's good news

On Chen/Red Army:
1. Chen's units will have the same abilities as any other. Tank Hunters can still throw TNT. Red Guards can still fix bayonets. Overlords can obviously customize. Gattling Tanks can still dakka tongue.gif Again, you seem to be yet another person who thinks that any given General in ROTR will loose functions like it's ZH all over again to make up for their new toys. It's not like that.

well meant it in his unique stuff barring the overlords because an overlord without customization? who can think of such thing? im wondering if his helix would still retain customization. are get a new set of customization entirely

On Ibrahiim/Bio Command:
1. Mostly correct, but Ibrahiim employs a new class of weaponry based on acids to deal with armour, so that's covered. He also has the Scud Launcher to punch holes into enemy defence lines.

On Sulaymaan/Warlord:
1. Only unique units may be expensive, base units like the Technical will not be artificially more expensive for any General.

well i dont think that is what i meant. also technicals are fun

On Yusuuf/Terror Cell:
1. Insurrection (if you mean the big mob) is a generic GP. If you mean the 3-level "Ambush", then you're right.

Yeah that's the one

On Orlov/Rapid Deployment:
1. ERA isn't exclusive to anyone.
2. Orlov's unique upgrade is Thermobaric Ordnance, not Goliath.
3. Orlov's weakness is the basic Russian weakness of incredibly expensive units. His Spetznaz, while good, are definitely more expensive and unlike vehicles they cannot be made cheaper. His airforce, while better, is also more expensive on default. In that way, like Russia has ever been, he's most vulnerable in the early game.

Ah cool. i guess earlygame has more economic risks for him. i wonder how he will deal with it

On Zhukov/Tactical Ballistics:
1. Zhukov is Powerhouse, as has been established and confirmed earlier. I'm in part to blame for the confusion.
2. Zhukov doesn't use the Gorgon.


On Aleksandr/Advanced Weapons:
1. Since Zhukov is Powerhouse, conversely Aleksandr is Exaggerator.
2. He has the Gorgon, just like Orlov.
3. Personally I prefer the Golem; and yes, he also has the Blackbear of course, since it's an independant super Sentinel which isn't produced so much as "follows the call for help from comrades the world over" tongue.gif
4. Tactics-wise, Aleksandr is the go-all-out General. His incredibly high-damage units forego any kind of subtlety and just shoot, shoot and shoot some more. He also has a kind of super-APC, the details of which are not revealed, but fill it with Shock Troopers and roll it down the hills - enemies too foolish to flee will soon be no more.

now that makes me think of a cartoon like a Russian version of GI Joe or Battletech Animated but following the exploits and adventures of the Blackbear force adn their giant tank cool.gif


responses are in bold beer1.gif

Posted by: Mizo 20 Dec 2016, 13:50

QUOTE
On Jin/Secret Police:
1. Why do you think he'd have trouble building up a big army? Propaganda Airships are basicly made to support big armies with lots of propaganda and inspiring frenzy.

well meant comparatively, to the other two. he is gonna get bigger armies then the other factions i know


Why do People think Jin can't spam compared to the other 2? Relatively, Jin can spam just as much as Mau, Its Chen who takes spam to a whole different level and only he spams better than the 2. Mau does not in any shape or form have better spammability than Jin.


QUOTE
On Orlov/Rapid Deployment:
1. ERA isn't exclusive to anyone.
2. Orlov's unique upgrade is Thermobaric Ordnance, not Goliath.
3. Orlov's weakness is the basic Russian weakness of incredibly expensive units. His Spetznaz, while good, are definitely more expensive and unlike vehicles they cannot be made cheaper. His airforce, while better, is also more expensive on default. In that way, like Russia has ever been, he's most vulnerable in the early game.

Ah cool. i guess earlygame has more economic risks for him. i wonder how he will deal with it


Relatively , Orlov is going to have the strongest early game compared to the other 2 Russian generals so this weakness is alittle bit covered if not fully depending on the matchup.
In terms of power, Orlov beats 70% of the generals rosters in early game, with very few exceptions notably Thorn and to an extent, Wolfgang. While the Spetsnaz are more powerful, they're expensive meaning as strong as Orlov's early game will be, it's gonna be more punishing if you failed to preform a specific early game strategy or harrassment.

Posted by: GeneralCamo 20 Dec 2016, 16:26

I would actually say the faction with disadvantaged spam is Mau. Sure, you can spam Battlemasters all you want, but just like the current version you can't really get away with Nukaneer or Nuke Cannon spam. They are just too expensive and bulky (but POWERFUL) to be used like that. The more conventional equivalents that Chen and Jin have are much more spammable, but not nearly as powerful as a result. Jin does have some more expensive support units, but you generally do not spam support units anyway.

Posted by: X1Destroy 20 Dec 2016, 18:14

Not a surprise really. If there's something like a nuke cannon that can shoot and scoot while still being cheap then we'll have the biggest cry ever.


Posted by: Gameman112358 21 Dec 2016, 9:11

QUOTE (GeneralCamo @ 20 Dec 2016, 7:26) *
I would actually say the faction with disadvantaged spam is Mau. Sure, you can spam Battlemasters all you want, but just like the current version you can't really get away with Nukaneer or Nuke Cannon spam. They are just too expensive and bulky (but POWERFUL) to be used like that. The more conventional equivalents that Chen and Jin have are much more spammable, but not nearly as powerful as a result. Jin does have some more expensive support units, but you generally do not spam support units anyway.


Wouldn't shock me. Given Mau's speciality, I would be surprised if he could spam super well, considering the known units going to him are slow and expensive (incredibly powerful if used right though; Nuke Cannons are flat out lethal, and Nukeneers are basically extremely mobile artillery, considering they can enter troop crawlers). He essentially trades spamming ability for lots of firepower, and it makes a lot of sense to em that he can't spam AS good as Jin or Chen (though he can still spam, not saying he can't); imagine if you sent a cheaply made army, only to have your own artillery blow it up by sheer accident (China's nuclear and napalm weapons tend to do that a lot; I've lost entire armies because of mishaps like GLA ambush in the middle of my army, and then my Nuke Cannons fire at the ambush, thus blowing up my army altogether. Needless to say, I was pissed. XD).

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 20 Dec 2016, 9:14) *
Not a surprise really. If there's something like a nuke cannon that can shoot and scoot while still being cheap then we'll have the biggest cry ever.


Oh dear god, I can already imagine it. It'd be something like a Battlemaster that would fire Nuke Cannon shells from its gun instead of regular cannon shells. I can already imagine players crying from having to face such a unit... XD

Posted by: X1Destroy 21 Dec 2016, 9:50

Could been even worse.......like nuclear buggy with AOE.

BTW,

Mau seems to be the Chinese general that actually need precision and babysitting to use. He's the one whose forces are more expensive and have more chance of getting friendly fire than everyone else due to the destructive nature of WMDs. What can be used against the enemy can also be used against you, so think twice before recklessly blowing everything up.

Jin on the other hand, looks like will be the one who love playing safe and secured. As for Chen, like he would even care. MOAR is the only answer.

Posted by: Gameman112358 21 Dec 2016, 10:19

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 21 Dec 2016, 0:50) *
Could been even worse.......like nuclear buggy with AOE.

BTW,

Mau seems to be the Chinese general that actually need precision and babysitting to use. He's the one whose forces are more expensive and have more chance of getting friendly fire than everyone else due to the destructive nature of WMDs. What can be used against the enemy can also be used against you, so think twice before recklessly blowing everything up.

Jin on the other hand, looks like will be the one who love playing safe and secured. As for Chen, like he would even care. MOAR is the only answer.

Nuclear Buggy with AOE? Let Nukeneers fire out of fire port vehicles. Same thing. XD

Yeah, Mau will definitely be the one that requires more attention, rather than clicking the unit icons and rallying them to the enemy base. As I said, I've had plenty of incidents where my units get blown up by my own nuclear and napalm weapons simply because either they drop units into the middle of my army (GLA ambush, Paradrops, etc), or some super fast units got in the middle of my blob. In either case, my *Insert WMD artillery here* fires at said units, which blows up my entire army. Needless to say, I get super pissed. But if you can avoid said incidents, Mau will definitely be a very potent general, given the heavy focus on EMP, Napalm, and Nuclear weapons (One disables, one burns, and one destroys everything. That's a deadly combo right there.)

Jin will probably be much stronger than I thought. Out of all the Subversive generals, he might actually require a little less attention than other Subversive generals like Thorn, mainly because of his focus around support and hacking. He has the spammability known to China, but he is able to back up that spammability with much more effective propaganda support(Propaganda Airship being an example), making his hordes of troops go into a powerful frenzy where each one will do a lot more damage. Combine with China's numbers, more hacking support, extra ECM support, and a (possibly) better infantry corps, you've got a very strong general right there.

How I see it: All the generals use the Chinese Horde tactic at some point, it's just a matter of how. Mau would probably use his WMDs to obliterate most of his opposition, then send in the Horde to finish them off. Chen takes the Chinese Horde, multiplies it by x100, then throws it at the enemy. He makes the horde THE tactic of choice when playing him (along with some other stuff like Helixes and other cool toys). While Jin's Horde won't be as big as Chen's (Obviously), his horde will be the one that can put out the most damage, simply because propaganda support and some other stuff. (Those speaker towers are already very potent; large AOE healing+ROF buff makes large groups of units very powerful. If Jin does get a more powerful version of the current propaganda support, his horde will be the one that can do the most damage for each individual unit, I think.)

Posted by: SoraZ 21 Dec 2016, 19:07

A propaganda better than subliminal messaging isn't codable sadly, otherwise Jin would totally get that; and no, Subliminal Messaging will be available for anyone in case you think it's exclusive for Jin. What Jin does get in terms of exclusive upgradery, wait and see, but you will agree that it fits him.

Posted by: Gameman112358 21 Dec 2016, 21:34

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 21 Dec 2016, 10:07) *
A propaganda better than subliminal messaging isn't codable sadly, otherwise Jin would totally get that; and no, Subliminal Messaging will be available for anyone in case you think it's exclusive for Jin. What Jin does get in terms of exclusive upgradery, wait and see, but you will agree that it fits him.


Aww. I was hoping General Jin gets better propaganda. Oh well. What I was thinking was that Jin gets Subliminal Messaging by default(Chen and Mau still have to pay for the upgrade), and then gets a new upgrade that takes it up even further. If that can't be coded in, I understand completely, but it is a bummer still.

Now you've gotten me curious on what exclusive upgrades Jin is getting. His tactics seem to consist of supporting his hordes with powerful propaganda(Propaganda Airship for example), using electronic warfare to disrupt enemy attacks(Banshee ECM and possibly some hacking units similar to Black Lotus, less powerful of course), battlefield awareness via hacking the enemy (Radio Intercepts). I would imagine he gets upgrades to his ECM capabilities, as well as maybe getting upgrades that allow his units to hack enemy communications a la Radio Station Communication Disruption. But those are just a few ideas on what upgrades Jin will be getting.

Posted by: Emin96 22 Dec 2016, 0:14

ECM Jammer Tower upgrade is exclusive to JIN

Posted by: Maelstrom 21 Dec 2016, 23:44

QUOTE (Emin96 @ 22 Dec 2016, 0:14) *
ECM Jammer Tower upgrade is exclusive to JIN

Nope

Posted by: Die Hindenburg 22 Dec 2016, 3:15

2.0,: vanilla ZH factions upgrades,will they be general specific? tongue.gif

Posted by: Gameman112358 22 Dec 2016, 3:31

QUOTE (Die Hindenburg @ 21 Dec 2016, 18:15) *
2.0,: vanilla ZH factions upgrades,will they be general specific? tongue.gif


I doubt they're gonna bring in more ZH faction upgrades; they already took a few (stealth comanches for example), and some of them IMO were pretty goddamned ridiculous and OP from some standpoints. For example, I would not want Battlemasters to get their autoloader upgrade back, and I certainly don't want Tactical Nuke MiGs to make a return, simply because if they do (And that's a big if), they're gonna go to Mau, who is already over the top nuclear already. Anthrax Gamma is another example; an anti-infantry weapon turned anti-tank weapon? Too much IMO.

The ZH upgrades they did integrate into ROTR are, yes, going to be general specific in a lot of cases I think (stealth comanches, and comanches in general, go to Griffon only. No one else).

Posted by: XAOC-RU- 22 Dec 2016, 6:31

Mig nuclear bombers... hm why not. We already have nuclear Hans. Thats will be cool. It also be cool to see some new alternative Global Upgrade from Insustrial Plant (instead of global price decrease) for some Russian general (Aleksander for example). This could be purchaseable upgrade which will increase armorstats firepower and range of all Russian units.

Posted by: X1Destroy 22 Dec 2016, 7:51

I am sure Autoloader will be back for Chen, which would fit him as it would be a good alternative to using Overlords. Unless the plan is scrapped.

Nuke Migs probably won't happen for obvious reasons. Beside, Mau won't even use interceptor mig but a fictional jet based on the J20.

Posted by: Gameman112358 22 Dec 2016, 10:03

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 21 Dec 2016, 22:51) *
I am sure Autoloader will be back for Chen, which would fit him as it would be a good alternative to using Overlords. Unless the plan is scrapped.

Nuke Migs probably won't happen for obvious reasons. Beside, Mau won't even use interceptor mig but a fictional jet based on the J20.


I sorta doubt that Chen will get Autoloaders back; he is the spammy faction after all. Giving Battlemasters access to the Autoloader upgrade again would probably be pretty horrific, given that Battlemaster tanks in ROTR are tanks that you can easily produce en masse. Huge cluster of Battlemasters +Horde Bonus + Autoloaders = lol. I could be completely wrong though and he does get Autoloaders in some way or form.

I have no idea if Mau is still going to get a new jet to use over the interceptor MiG, or if that plan has been thrown out the window. On that note, I'm not sure if Mau is still going to use Hellfire MiGs or if he's getting a replacement for that too. Would be interesting if he did get a replacement for Hellfire MiGs though.

Posted by: SoraZ 22 Dec 2016, 11:01

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 22 Dec 2016, 7:51) *
Beside, Mau won't even use interceptor mig but a fictional jet based on the J20.



QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 22 Dec 2016, 10:03) *
On that note, I'm not sure if Mau is still going to use Hellfire MiGs or if he's getting a replacement for that too. Would be interesting if he did get a replacement for Hellfire MiGs though.

He won't.

Posted by: Gameman112358 23 Dec 2016, 10:11

So General Mau will be using regular Hellfires and Interceptors. Good to know.

Posted by: ZunZero97 23 Dec 2016, 10:59

1-All ECA generals will have the 3 protocols?
2-Paladin will replace crusader?
3-all generals will have a experimental and or exclusive unit(s) not buildeable on vanilla factions?
4-All generals will have all weapons?, for example the airforce general will be unable to build tanks.
5-the air mobility from russia general can start with helipad?
6-Tactical ballistics general can build infinite ICBMs?
7-all generals will have the same SW?
8-what type of GP will use Bradley general?
9-angry mobs only be buildeable as Terror Cell general?
10-and terrorist too?
11-All eca generals can build howitzers?
12-why USA need T1 to build crusader MBT when they have a tank general?
13-all russia generals can change the Boris weapon?
14-What generals will use the Overlord?
15-and the shenlong?
16-if i choose a general, will be permanent?
17-what general will use the nuke cannon?
18-and the ECM?
19-is there apossibility to make the T2 China recycler move to other unit? because china will not build twingfangs to counter GLA, not the GP air force of course.
20-is there a possibility to reveal the exact time when the next version will be released?

Posted by: Maelstrom 23 Dec 2016, 11:11

QUOTE (ZunZero97 @ 23 Dec 2016, 10:59) *
1-All ECA generals will have the 3 protocols?
Yes
2-Paladin will replace crusader?
No
3-all generals will have a experimental and or exclusive unit(s) not buildeable on vanilla factions?
There will be no vanilla factions in 2.0
4-All generals will have all weapons?, for example the airforce general will be unable to build tanks.
Hell yeah !
5-the air mobility from russia general can start with helipad?
No
6-Tactical ballistics general can build infinite ICBMs?
He will be the only one to get ICBMs.
7-all generals will have the same SW?
Yes
8-what type of GP will use Bradley general?
An unique (unrevealed) R1 GP, and Tank drop at R3
9-angry mobs only be buildeable as Terror Cell general?
Yes
10-and terrorist too?
Yes
11-All eca generals can build howitzers?
Yes
12-why USA need T1 to build crusader MBT when they have a tank general?
Because Crusader is way too powerful for t0
13-all russia generals can change the Boris weapon?
Yes
14-What generals will use the Overlord?
General Chen
15-and the shenlong?
General Mau
16-if i choose a general, will be permanent?
For the duration of the match yes
17-what general will use the nuke cannon?
General Mau
18-and the ECM?
The ECM tank is Jin-exclusive
19-is there apossibility to make the T2 China recycler move to other unit? because china will not build twingfangs to counter GLA, not the GP air force of course.
In 2.0, all generals will have T2 units aside Twin Fang.
20-is there a possibility to reveal the exact time when the next version will be released?
Read the fucking forum rules.

Posted by: M01 23 Dec 2016, 11:32

^
4-All generals will have all weapons?, for example the airforce general will be unable to build tanks.
Hell yeah !

WUT?? I thought even Griffon can build tanks??

Posted by: Gameman112358 23 Dec 2016, 11:42

I think ZunZero was asking if all of the generals are going to have their standard faction's arsenal at their disposal alongside their unique arsenal (E.g. Griffin can build regular tanks, Bradley can build regular aircraft, stuff like that). And Maelstrom said yes, all generals will have access to their faction's standard arsenal. Griffon can build tanks, don't worry, the devs will only add new things to the subfaction generals. They won't be taking any capabilities away from them. (E.g Griffon can still build tanks, Orlov still has Russia's heavy tanks, etc.)

Posted by: Maelstrom 23 Dec 2016, 11:48

QUOTE (M01 @ 23 Dec 2016, 11:32) *
^
4-All generals will have all weapons?, for example the airforce general will be unable to build tanks.
Hell yeah !

WUT?? I thought even Griffon can build tanks??

Clarification: ALL generals will be able to build tanks. No exception.
There will be no bullshit like "X general can't build tanks, Y general can't build artillery".

Posted by: X1Destroy 23 Dec 2016, 13:22

I hope Bradley get more marine units. Sure the Vanguard and Javelin are marines, but they're generic ones instead of his own exclusive.


Posted by: SoraZ 23 Dec 2016, 15:43

People, I explained how 2.0 works literally one page ago. Read the thread before asking questions that have already been answered, possibly multiple times.

Posted by: Purple 24 Dec 2016, 2:54

If the ECM tank is going to be exclusive does the same apply to the ECM upgrade for speaker towers?

Posted by: {Lads}RikerZZZ 24 Dec 2016, 6:04

Yes. All ECM related stuff is for jin

Posted by: SoraZ 24 Dec 2016, 12:14

QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 24 Dec 2016, 6:04) *
Yes. All ECM related stuff is for jin

Said nobody ever. ECM Tank being Jin-exclusive =/= ECM Tech being Jin-exclusive.

Posted by: Lars 24 Dec 2016, 16:41

Quick question about 2.0 since we're already talking about it anyway. (And I'm pretty sure this isn't fishing but do forgive me if it is) I replayed through the story missions for Generals and ZH recently and it got me thinking. Can you guys give us an idea of what kind of difficulty we can expect from your future campaign missions? Personally I thought the original campaign was a little on the easy side even on brutal/hard (Which I guess is to be expected considering technical limitations back in release, not that I would know anything of it) although some missions did get me excited; The one where you have to avenge a UN ambassador in particular took me by surprise.

Posted by: (USA)Bruce 24 Dec 2016, 17:46

The first mission of USA you start up with a full base and then it explodes and becomes a european base, your faction is called the ECA even if everything you have is pretty much american by design.

Oh wait....wrong design sheets I Thought you ment generals 2 not ROTR 2.0

Posted by: SoraZ 24 Dec 2016, 18:52

We will try to make them challenging but not stupidly hard. Of course it depends on a variety of factors, so no promises.

Posted by: GeneralCamo 25 Dec 2016, 4:59

QUOTE (Purple @ 23 Dec 2016, 20:54) *
If the ECM tank is going to be exclusive does the same apply to the ECM upgrade for speaker towers?

Several years ago yes. However these days that isn't the case (back then it was a global upgrade for ALL speakers and the sensor upgrade didn't exist). All Generals will have SOME form of ECM. The Speaker Upgrade being one of the things that is available for everyone.

Don't expect it to be as decent as the ECM Tank however. The speaker is immobile for example, so it isn't as good as the ECM Tank in supporting a push.

Posted by: Lars 25 Dec 2016, 10:33

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 25 Dec 2016, 1:52) *
We will try to make them challenging but not stupidly hard. Of course it depends on a variety of factors, so no promises.


Of course. In regards to the future then, will you invite/consider fanbase input when designing the levels themselves, or is that entirely under the jurisdiction of the devteam? I have a few nascent idle ideas I wanna run by you, although they were admittedly imagined to satisfy my fetish for cold-war-gone-hot aesthetics and artillery, among other things.

Posted by: Gameman112358 25 Dec 2016, 13:28

QUOTE (GeneralCamo @ 24 Dec 2016, 19:59) *
Several years ago yes. However these days that isn't the case (back then it was a global upgrade for ALL speakers and the sensor upgrade didn't exist). All Generals will have SOME form of ECM. The Speaker Upgrade being one of the things that is available for everyone.

Don't expect it to be as decent as the ECM Tank however. The speaker is immobile for example, so it isn't as good as the ECM Tank in supporting a push.


I can already imagine some of the problems that would happen if all of the ECM tech be exclusive to Jin; Chen and Mau will be extremely vulnerable to missile weapons, for one.

Supposedly the Banshee ECM Tank is going to be Jin exclusive, which would certainly help defend his army columns from missile attacks. However, I'm not sure then how Chen and Mau are supposed to deal with missile attacks when they go on the offensive. Speaker Tower ECM is as you said, immobile. Great for defense, not so much if your army is on the move. GLA for example will have a field day taking down large Chinese tank platoons with a lack of a mobile ECM (damn Rocket Buggies; probably the most annoying POS in the entire GLA arsenal hands down IMO). Though supposedly the other Chinese generals are getting a mobile ECM vehicle, just not as good as the Banshee ECM. Dunno if that's in the plans or if it was just rumor.

Posted by: SoraZ 25 Dec 2016, 14:15

Isn't it pretty obvious that, if the ECM Tank goes to Jin, the other Generals still get ECM units, though not as good?

Posted by: X1Destroy 25 Dec 2016, 14:16

IMO it doesn't really have to be a handmedown version of Jin's ECM tank. It could be an infantry unit, an artillery that doesn't do any damage but cause distraction, or an aircraft. Or a truck that deploy into an ECM tower like the mobile sensor array. We never know.

Posted by: M.P 26 Dec 2016, 17:42

Whose exclusive is this? biggrin.gif


Posted by: SoraZ 26 Dec 2016, 17:56

Yours, obviously tongue.gif

To those unsure, no this isn't real, it's just M.P doing some modeling practice and having too much fun.

Posted by: TheHellGeneral 26 Dec 2016, 18:25

QUOTE (M.P @ 26 Dec 2016, 17:42) *
Whose exclusive is this? biggrin.gif



omfg.gif

Posted by: X1Destroy 26 Dec 2016, 18:33

Can I have that please? Awesome!

Posted by: TimeBurner 26 Dec 2016, 18:53

MP! You didnt tell me you could make such amazing model.Nice textures!

Posted by: Mizo 26 Dec 2016, 18:54

That model look freaken Dope. 10/10 tongue.gif

Posted by: M.P 26 Dec 2016, 19:36

QUOTE (TimeBurner @ 26 Dec 2016, 21:23) *
MP! You didnt tell me you could make such amazing model.Nice textures!

It's not my Model and Texture, This beauty is done by The Hunter, I just edited it, made it work (And OP)

Here's an ingame screenshot:



Brotherhood of Ogres!

Posted by: 8igDaddy8lake 26 Dec 2016, 19:53

Wasn't this General Aleksander's Kodiak replacement, the Ogre? Not sure if plans changed there or not...


QUOTE (M.P @ 26 Dec 2016, 11:42) *
Whose exclusive is this? biggrin.gif


Posted by: SoraZ 26 Dec 2016, 20:52

QUOTE (8igDaddy8lake @ 26 Dec 2016, 19:53) *
Wasn't this General Aleksander's Kodiak replacement, the Ogre? Not sure if plans changed there or not...

Yes, Aleksandr has the Ogre instead of the Kodiak, but the one M.P did is just for fun based on the Ogre model found in-game (it's on the shellmap, on train cars). M.P merely rigged it to be useable (with some additions for lulz).

Posted by: Die Hindenburg 26 Dec 2016, 21:08

The ogre even with these doodads looks to much likr a kodiak.


Will every general get his faction's theme weapons like flame/nuke/ecm/emp for chen, jin and mau? Except aleksandr of course i know.

Posted by: 3rdShockArmy 26 Dec 2016, 21:09

Jesus, that thing looks fricken awesome! MP, I fuckin' lova ya man!
biggrin.gif

Posted by: Neutrino 26 Dec 2016, 21:28

QUOTE (M.P @ 26 Dec 2016, 18:42) *
Whose exclusive is this? biggrin.gif



Hunter never gets enough appreciation for his textures...

Posted by: SoraZ 26 Dec 2016, 21:50

QUOTE (Die Hindenburg @ 26 Dec 2016, 21:08) *
Will every general get his faction's theme weapons like flame/nuke/ecm/emp for chen, jin and mau? Except aleksandr of course i know.

What, exactly, do you mean?

Posted by: Purple 27 Dec 2016, 11:20

Out of curiosity, what software do you make these models in and what settings do you use to get these renders?

Posted by: re_simeone 27 Dec 2016, 13:27

MBT with AA guns...Man that would be awesome.

Posted by: M.P 27 Dec 2016, 15:05

QUOTE (re_simeone @ 27 Dec 2016, 15:57) *
MBT with AA guns...Man that would be awesome.

So you think AA guns are the only significant thing... Ya'll kill me if i tell u what it can do

Posted by: re_simeone 27 Dec 2016, 17:37

QUOTE (M.P @ 27 Dec 2016, 15:05) *
So you think AA guns are the only significant thing... Ya'll kill me if i tell u what it can do

No, I mentioned thing I really like, and that was carried from original Ogre from Endwar.
But I can notice Wardens, Mineplows, Shtora, and Railgun upgrade.
Still, missing Buratino anti perssonel defence like on orignal. That one was awesome.

Posted by: TimeBurner 27 Dec 2016, 19:19

QUOTE (re_simeone @ 28 Dec 2016, 1:37) *
No, I mentioned thing I really like, and that was carried from original Ogre from Endwar.
But I can notice Wardens, Mineplows, Shtora, and Railgun upgrade.
Still, missing Buratino anti perssonel defence like on orignal. That one was awesome.


Please dont give MP ideas. Not these kinds of ideas,atleast.

Posted by: XAOC-RU- 28 Dec 2016, 6:32

QUOTE (Die Hindenburg @ 27 Dec 2016, 1:08) *
The ogre even with these doodads looks to much likr a kodiak.


Will every general get his faction's theme weapons like flame/nuke/ecm/emp for chen, jin and mau? Except aleksandr of course i know.


Yes and no at same moment. Mao for example will gain access to nukes and other weapon types. Other generals will not gai access to full nuke arsenal exept for nuke missle sw of course. But some of them will get better ecm or emp.About Gen Aleks. Yeah only he will gain access to advansed weaponry like Tesla technology. The only thing that I wish to be done is more presentable tesla tank for Aleksander with new upgrades for it. Current Tesla tank is one ground unit which didn't have any upgrades for it like for other units

Posted by: Scud 28 Dec 2016, 7:13

QUOTE (M.P @ 26 Dec 2016, 13:42) *
Whose exclusive is this? biggrin.gif



You sexy motherfucker...

Posted by: Jet02 29 Dec 2016, 14:45

Looks like a heavily modified t-14 to me

Also*spoiler alert*

It belongs to alex(it's on the wiki lol)

Now excuse me while i go hide in the caves from the devs

Edit: too late

Doesn't generals only support a maximum of 3 weapons per unit? How is this supposed to work?(i'm assuming those silver orbs are tesla coils and/or those rocket/missile pods are fully functional)

Posted by: M.P 29 Dec 2016, 15:03

QUOTE (Jet02 @ 29 Dec 2016, 17:15) *
Also*spoiler alert*

It belongs to alex(it's on the wiki lol)

....Wasnt it a public info since 1.85 release?

QUOTE (Jet02 @ 29 Dec 2016, 17:30) *
Doesn't generals only support a maximum of 3 weapons per unit? How is this supposed to work?(i'm assuming those silver orbs are tesla coils and/or those rocket/missile pods are fully functional)


Those orbs are just a visual addition. Those also exist on Golem too (After Coilgun upgrade they appear on the chassis)

I just realized I was using wrong texture for the mine plowers lol. Fixed it in the model, Will update the render i posted later.

Posted by: Jet02 29 Dec 2016, 15:10

1.Just unfortunately i didn't realise that until 3 minutes after i uploaded that post.

2.So.... those are electromagnets?

Posted by: M.P 29 Dec 2016, 15:17

QUOTE (Jet02 @ 29 Dec 2016, 17:40) *
2.So.... those are electromagnets?

Well according to the code, They're called "Gaus Capacitators". I have no further info about em.

Posted by: NikCaputnic 29 Dec 2016, 15:20

QUOTE (M.P @ 29 Dec 2016, 17:03) *
....Wasnt it a public info since 1.85 release?

It was public since 1.5 (or even before it) 8Isov.gif

Posted by: Omnius64 30 Dec 2016, 13:13

Somewhat related, but after all this 2.0 talk, it have remind me of the old ROTR unit list we had for the 2.0 and the previous version before their release. Remenbering this, and knowing a little better the incoming stuff (And also the need to delete the 1.86 unit list); Its time we update the unit list, dont you think?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1QzCR4EmaK79L1vJkQSHdlCBqM75342tK-7XZzGPzj5E/edit#gid=0

Posted by: Gameman112358 31 Dec 2016, 0:19

QUOTE (M.P @ 26 Dec 2016, 8:42) *
Whose exclusive is this? biggrin.gif



That's a pretty beefy tank right there... coilguns, shtora, warden missiles, mineplowers, rear mounted machine guns, all in a mass producible package. I know Aleksandr's Ogre won't be this powerful, considering it will only get the coilgun (after an upgrade for both Ogres and Golems I believe), but one can dream.

Also, I'm loving the discussions and information I'm seeing in this thread. Everyone knows just a little more about 2.0 general's arsenal and tactics, which also helps keep people eager for 2.0. To M.P. and The Hunter: while showing us some of the fun stuff you guys have been doing is great (the ogre tank render for example), I do hope it didn't take too long to make that, mainly because IMO it would be preferable to spend more time getting the 1.87 PB bug fixed and balanced for full release, so you guys can start work on 2.0. That's when discussions really get interesting on this forum. (I do hope I can keep this thread alive long enough to make it to 2.0's development, so people have a place to discuss 2.0 further when it starts being developed, but if it gets closed, then it is what it is)

Posted by: ZunZero97 31 Dec 2016, 0:39

What units will use Ibrahiim General?
Can you add in ROTR?
Or at least add the Scud Launcher.

Posted by: MARS 31 Dec 2016, 7:08

Seeing how the Scud Launcher will return in a completely different form, no, it's not something that could just be added as a token 'have some new stuff' kinda thing. Chances are, the only thing the new Scud Launcher will have in common with the old will be its name.

Posted by: zhy 31 Dec 2016, 7:33

QUOTE (MARS @ 31 Dec 2016, 7:08) *
Seeing how the Scud Launcher will return in a completely different form, no, it's not something that could just be added as a token 'have some new stuff' kinda thing. Chances are, the only thing the new Scud Launcher will have in common with the old will be its name.



A small mobile superweapon like Tolpol?

Posted by: re_simeone 31 Dec 2016, 15:52

I mean yeah, GLA now have Grad, but more Topol/Howitzer logic type of units...Idk.
Will it at least be able to change its warheads like old scud launcher did ?

Posted by: SoraZ 31 Dec 2016, 15:54

QUOTE (re_simeone @ 31 Dec 2016, 15:52) *
I mean yeah, GLA now have Grad, but more Topol/Howitzer logic type of units...Idk.
Will it at least be able to change its warheads like old scud launcher did ?

Wait and see.

Posted by: X1Destroy 31 Dec 2016, 16:14

Is Grad still exclusive to Warlord? Or that is scrapped?

SCUD launcher will probably have no equivalent, it would be cool if Ibrahim can have 3 artillery units to choose from. They have completely different purposes after all.

Posted by: SoraZ 31 Dec 2016, 16:37

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 31 Dec 2016, 16:14) *
Is Grad still exclusive to Warlord? Or that is scrapped?

Pretty sure it never was exclusive.

Posted by: GeneralCamo 31 Dec 2016, 21:13

It was... circa 2008. As a note: any statement before 2012 is probably completely false at this point, since back then there wasn't a GLA Airforce, new Tech Structures, or an ECA distinct from the EU. Even going back to 2012 there have since been massive changes to the design (especially in the run up to 1.85), so take those statements in broad strokes.

Posted by: Gameman112358 3 Jan 2017, 0:28

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 31 Dec 2016, 7:14) *
Is Grad still exclusive to Warlord? Or that is scrapped?

SCUD launcher will probably have no equivalent, it would be cool if Ibrahim can have 3 artillery units to choose from. They have completely different purposes after all.


Unless each subfaction gets a unique artillery unit that serves the same purpose as the Grad, I think all of the subfactions will probably have access to the Grad. Rocket Buggies are more anti unit than anti structure compared to the Grad, and the SCUD Launcher is exclusive to Ibrahiim, meaning that if the Grad was exclusive, it would, for example, leave Yusuuf without a reliable anti structure artillery. I can already imagine the balance problems that would come up because of that (think Tank General from ZH but even worse).

SCUD Launcher is apparently going to be changed to function much closer to the Russian Topol-M in terms to functionality and (probably) firepower. So Rocket Buggies for unit sniping, Grads for anti structure, and SCUD Launchers for very long range destruction (with chemicals and who knows what else can be loaded into it). I'm curious if the SCUD Launcher's warhead can be changed, like in ZH, to have different load outs. I can imagine stuff like acid load out (Vehicles and probably structures), plague load out (Powerful unit debuff), as well as the usual anthrax load out. Not suggesting anything, just letting my imagination run a little wild with the ideas.

Posted by: SoraZ 3 Jan 2017, 18:00

QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 3 Jan 2017, 0:28) *
meaning that if the Grad was exclusive, it would, for example, leave Yusuuf without a reliable anti structure artillery

Which we would not do, as per explanation a few pages back.

QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 3 Jan 2017, 0:28) *
SCUD Launcher is apparently going to be changed to function much closer to the Russian Topol-M in terms to functionality and (probably) firepower. So Rocket Buggies for unit sniping, Grads for anti structure, and SCUD Launchers for very long range destruction (with chemicals and who knows what else can be loaded into it). I'm curious if the SCUD Launcher's warhead can be changed, like in ZH, to have different load outs. I can imagine stuff like acid load out (Vehicles and probably structures), plague load out (Powerful unit debuff), as well as the usual anthrax load out. Not suggesting anything, just letting my imagination run a little wild with the ideas.

As I said only a few posts ago, Wait. And. See.

Posted by: M.P 4 Jan 2017, 8:37

For those who are interested in mah Ogre, There's this thing i made:


Posted by: X1Destroy 4 Jan 2017, 10:47

I want it so bad...........Looks much better without the railgun.

Posted by: 3rdShockArmy 4 Jan 2017, 14:16

So damn sexy! th_sexy.gif

Posted by: Knjaz. 5 Jan 2017, 6:55

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 31 Dec 2016, 17:37) *
Pretty sure it never was exclusive.


It was, at some point.

Posted by: Omnius64 10 Jan 2017, 13:54

A bunch of question:

-Will in the end each ECA general have its own unique anti-tank defense structure?
-And also its own artillery unit? I read before that it will not, but I want to be sure.
-Will USA Bradley build Acolytes, or will only summon them by GP?
-I have read before that ECA Charles will not have the Mole-minelayer...Its that true?
-For Zhokov and Mau...will their nuclear weapons be avaliable from the start, or they will still need to spend GP points?

Posted by: (USA)Bruce 10 Jan 2017, 14:14

QUOTE (Omnius64 @ 10 Jan 2017, 15:54) *
A bunch of question:

-Will in the end each ECA general have its own unique anti-tank defense structure?
-And also its own artillery unit? I read before that it will not, but I want to be sure.
-Will USA Bradley build Acolytes, or will only summon them by GP?
-I have read before that ECA Charles will not have the Mole-minelayer...Its that true?
-For Zhokov and Mau...will their nuclear weapons be avaliable from the start, or they will still need to spend GP points?


Lets see,

-No, only the firesupport general gets a unquie AT defence (Thats the at gun you see now ingame)
-Its one of 3 buddy like the previous answer, only one of them get a unique toy while the other two get something else
-This was a concept for thorn back in the day, as thorn was the guy who liked drones the least so he'd have them rather then guardian drones.(hey Just like me!) However I can gladly say thats no longer the case right now and that it might still be a 3 point gp for bradley.
-Where have you read this? I think he gets the moleminelayer in return but dont hold me on it
-Topols will always require a GP, however units like nuke cannons, nukeneers, nuke hans etc will require only that you select that general and it will be unavaible to the other two.

Posted by: XAOC-RU- 10 Jan 2017, 14:53

QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 10 Jan 2017, 18:14) *
Lets see,

-No, only the firesupport general gets a unquie AT defence (Thats the at gun you see now ingame)
-Its one of 3 buddy like the previous answer, only one of them get a unique toy while the other two get something else
-This was a concept for thorn back in the day, as thorn was the guy who liked drones the least so he'd have them rather then guardian drones.(hey Just like me!) However I can gladly say thats no longer the case right now and that it might still be a 3 point gp for bradley.
-Where have you read this? I think he gets the moleminelayer in return but dont hold me on it
-Topols will always require a GP, however units like nuke cannons, nukeneers, nuke hans etc will require only that you select that general and it will be unavaible to the other two.


Topols need GP for Zhukov? Really? I thought Topols will be unique theme unit by default for Zhukov and his main lategame unit coz he is a ballistic arty general. Howewer it's strange because all first level GP desighned for specific general. For example shock division is simply general Alexander with his unique units which will avaiable for him by default. Same with heavy gunship support which opens Orlovs toys exept specnaz and BTR.

QUOTE (M.P @ 4 Jan 2017, 12:37) *
For those who are interested in mah Ogre, There's this thing i made:


It's a Pinnokio with long nose of liar biggrin.gif
. If seriously good work MP. Eyes looks to bright but all look fine

Posted by: SoraZ 10 Jan 2017, 15:07

QUOTE (Omnius64 @ 10 Jan 2017, 13:54) *
A bunch of question:

-Will in the end each ECA general have its own unique anti-tank defense structure?
-And also its own artillery unit? I read before that it will not, but I want to be sure.
-Will USA Bradley build Acolytes, or will only summon them by GP?
-I have read before that ECA Charles will not have the Mole-minelayer...Its that true?
-For Zhokov and Mau...will their nuclear weapons be avaliable from the start, or they will still need to spend GP points?


#1: Well, there's the Gun Turret, the Mortar Pit, plans for a Milan Defence...
#2: There will be a new artillery unit which, as of yet, is completely unrevealed, which will belong to Willem and Wolfgang. Beyond that, wait and see.
#3: It is planned that it will expand into a three-rank GP which only Bradley has access to.
#4: Yes, he will have something more interesting instead.
#5: Zhukov "needs permission from the Premier", so yes he keeps the GP requirement, but it will be expanded to include things not yet revealed. China being much more liberal with nukes, Mau does not, but that is balanced by his nuclear weapons being a little weaker than Zhukov's to achieve a balance with his EMP and Napalm options.

Posted by: XAOC-RU- 10 Jan 2017, 17:13

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 10 Jan 2017, 19:07) *
#5: Zhukov "needs permission from the Premier", so yes he keeps the GP requirement

biggrin.gif Thats really good joke answer to explain why Zhukov cannot use Topols by default LOL biggrin.gif. Thanks for info

Posted by: SoraZ 10 Jan 2017, 17:18

QUOTE (XAOC-RU- @ 10 Jan 2017, 17:13) *
biggrin.gif Thats really good joke answer to explain why Zhukov cannot use Topols by default LOL biggrin.gif. Thanks for info

It's not even a joke, I'm serious. It's the same reason why Sulaymaan's Mercs are locked behind a GP point - he needs to sign the contract first.

Posted by: Gameman112358 11 Jan 2017, 9:44

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 10 Jan 2017, 8:18) *
It's not even a joke, I'm serious. It's the same reason why Sulaymaan's Mercs are locked behind a GP point - he needs to sign the contract first.


So GPs such as the nuclear protocol and the mercenary contracts are still locked behind GPs even for respective generals. Makes sense, given that Topols and Missile Silos are no joke in terms of firepower. Also kinda cool that there is a sort of logical reasoning behind it, Zhukov needing authorization from the Russian higher ups and Sulaymaan actually having to sign the contract before getting mercenary help. Though I'm not exactly sure which GPs as of 1.87 are going to be getting this treatment. For example:
1. (Russia) The GP that gives you the Russian Hind and the Goliath Upgrade. I doubt that the Hind and Goliath are going to be locked behind a GP in 2.0 for Orlov, given that he's the only one that gets it at that point, but I would need confirmation on that.
2. (ECA) Fire Support GP. Again, because Charles in 2.0 will be the only one getting the Claymore Howitzers and Harriers, I doubt that he'll have to pay a GP to use either of those units.
3. (USA) Armored Company and Covert Forces GP. Since Bradley and Thorn respectively are the only ones to use those units, they probably won't be locked behind a GP, since none of the units in either unlock felt particularly overpowered/broken.

I'm actually curious for the reasoning behind some of the GPs myself if this is the case for most of them. Stuff like Mass Mobilization for example; unless that's a GP for all Chinese generals, I'm assuming Chen is the only one that gets it. What's the reasoning then in that case? Is it because Chen requires authorization from the Chinese Politburo to allow additional recruitment, training, and manufacturing abilities? Or is there some other reasoning that I'm missing?

Posted by: Mizo 11 Jan 2017, 9:54

All current Rank 1 Unit unlocks will be removed from the game Aside from VVS , Mecenary Contract and ICBMs. The rest of the units will be avaliable from the get go.

Posted by: SoraZ 11 Jan 2017, 10:11

QUOTE (Mizo @ 11 Jan 2017, 9:54) *
All current Rank 1 Unit unlocks will be removed from the game Aside from VVS , Mecenary Contract and ICBMs. The rest of the units will be avaliable from the get go.

Almost; Munitions Bunker/Munition Track GP will remain as well for Willem.

Also, Goliath System is for everyone.

Posted by: Omnius64 11 Jan 2017, 13:26

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 10 Jan 2017, 15:07) *
#1: Well, there's the Gun Turret, the Mortar Pit, plans for a Milan Defence...
#2: There will be a new artillery unit which, as of yet, is completely unrevealed, which will belong to Willem and Wolfgang. Beyond that, wait and see.
#3: It is planned that it will expand into a three-rank GP which only Bradley has access to.
#4: Yes, he will have something more interesting instead.
#5: Zhukov "needs permission from the Premier", so yes he keeps the GP requirement, but it will be expanded to include things not yet revealed. China being much more liberal with nukes, Mau does not, but that is balanced by his nuclear weapons being a little weaker than Zhukov's to achieve a balance with his EMP and Napalm options.



Milan defense? Thats a new concept, or its something IRL? because cant find it what that means. Not trying to fish, but if you are refering to something in real life, I cant find it. Anyway, the question was about the Gun turret (exclusive to Wilhem) replacement for the other ECA Generals. Will each one have its own turret? Or both Wolfang and Charles will have the same Gun Turret replacement?.


Posted by: SoraZ 11 Jan 2017, 15:55

It's a real thing: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MILAN

Posted by: *atmospheric* 11 Jan 2017, 17:41

131 replies? Imagine when 2.0 actually comes out! biggrin.gif

Posted by: Loluthinks 12 Jan 2017, 16:38

Would the 2.0 will be able to correct definetly the lag problem when ai spam too much units?, also the ai will be improved in their fighting logics?, the ai will manage to use each general correctly?

Posted by: SoraZ 12 Jan 2017, 16:44

QUOTE (Loluthinks @ 12 Jan 2017, 16:38) *
Would the 2.0 will be able to correct definetly the lag problem when ai spam too much units?

Emphasis mine, and the answer to "definitely" is no. Will it be able to correct the problem at all? Probably, maybe. Mizo has done a tremendously good job so far, so it can get better from here on.

QUOTE (Loluthinks @ 12 Jan 2017, 16:38) *
also the ai will be improved in their fighting logics?

Did you compare the 1.86 AI to the 1.87PB AI? You should notice the massive improvement that has already happened.

QUOTE (Loluthinks @ 12 Jan 2017, 16:38) *
the ai will manage to use each general correctly?

Emphasis mine, and the answer is maybe. They will use the Generals to some degree well, however, that's unlikely to not be the case.

Posted by: Loluthinks 12 Jan 2017, 17:10

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 12 Jan 2017, 16:44) *
Emphasis mine, and the answer to "definitely" is no. Will it be able to correct the problem at all? Probably, maybe. Mizo has done a tremendously good job so far, so it can get better from here on.


Did you compare the 1.86 AI to the 1.87PB AI? You should notice the massive improvement that has already happened.


Emphasis mine, and the answer is maybe. They will use the Generals to some degree well, however, that's unlikely to not be the case.


I dont know if play the beta 1.87 now or wait until it release the stable version, i dint saw it on 1.87 yet, about the lag, i know is because the game engine, not only generals, but also battle from middle earth 1 and 2 is affected by this problem too, was a big mistake from EA dont fix this with their games, the pathfinding ai use make the game slow as hell after an hour, i though maybe having a stronger machine running the game would help, but after some time it happen too.

about the ai with the generals, i ask because if each general is focused on single tactic, then dont will be easier to code ai for use that general on that single tactic instead in every aspect as is until now?, for example, is not nessesary to give ai logic to general bradley about air force, only about tank fighting, the opossite will be with general griffon, saying that i suppose general thorn and similar in each faction will be the harder to code, because the tactics they need to use in order to win.

Posted by: Hanfield 12 Jan 2017, 17:21

Bradley still has airforce, Griffon still has tanks - no reason to confine them to a single tactic.

Posted by: Skitt 12 Jan 2017, 17:23

QUOTE (Loluthinks @ 12 Jan 2017, 16:10) *
I dont know if play the beta 1.87 now or wait until it release the stable version, i dint saw it on 1.87 yet, about the lag,

1.87 is less laggy than 1.86

Posted by: SoraZ 12 Jan 2017, 17:28

QUOTE (Loluthinks @ 12 Jan 2017, 17:10) *
about the ai with the generals, i ask because if each general is focused on single tactic, then dont will be easier to code ai for use that general on that single tactic instead in every aspect as is until now?, for example, is not nessesary to give ai logic to general bradley about air force, only about tank fighting, the opossite will be with general griffon, saying that i suppose general thorn and similar in each faction will be the harder to code, because the tactics they need to use in order to win.


No you're wrong, none of the Generals lose assets. Bradley has airplanes. Griffon and Thorn have tanks. Yusuuf has heavy artillery. Willem can tank-rush, etc.

I posted this generic chart on the second page to illustrate the difference between ROTR and ZH:



Posted by: Loluthinks 12 Jan 2017, 17:42

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 12 Jan 2017, 17:28) *
No you're wrong, none of the Generals lose assets. Bradley has airplanes. Griffon and Thorn have tanks. Yusuuf has heavy artillery. Willem can tank-rush, etc.

I posted this generic chart on the second page to illustrate the difference between ROTR and ZH:

I wasnt awared of this, i though they sacrified some aspect of their main things in exchange to expand futher their specialitation, for example, i though griffon will be unable to build tanks, only AA units and some infantry to protect base, and all resources, improvements and other would go to aircraft and air units.
but about thorn is like this right?, is the kind of general and the others on each faction who would be the hardest for code, because special tactics

Posted by: Mizo 12 Jan 2017, 17:59

Well you just have to wait and see.....

Posted by: Purple 13 Jan 2017, 18:41

QUOTE (Skitt @ 12 Jan 2017, 17:23) *
1.87 is less laggy than 1.86

I disagree. In my experience 1.87 both lags and crashes a lot more.

Posted by: XAOC-RU- 14 Jan 2017, 19:15

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 10 Jan 2017, 21:18) *
It's not even a joke, I'm serious. It's the same reason why Sulaymaan's Mercs are locked behind a GP point - he needs to sign the contract first.


Contract is ok. You spend your special money/points/gp for new contract. In Topol case you spend exactly same points without any permission from premier lol smile.gif. Thats why it looks like a joke smile.gif

Posted by: XAOC-RU- 14 Jan 2017, 19:20

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 11 Jan 2017, 14:11) *
Almost; Munitions Bunker/Munition Track GP will remain as well for Willem.

Also, Goliath System is for everyone.


Goliath for all Ruskies. Love it:)

Posted by: Hanfield 14 Jan 2017, 19:25

QUOTE (XAOC-RU- @ 14 Jan 2017, 20:15) *
In Topol case you spend exactly same points without any permission from premier lol smile.gif. Thats why it looks like a joke smile.gif

We could always make it a 3 GP branch :V

Level 1: Call Suvorov
Level 2: Ask Suvorov
Level 3: Get permission

Posted by: SoraZ 14 Jan 2017, 19:30

QUOTE (Hanfield @ 14 Jan 2017, 19:25) *
We could always make it a 3 GP branch :V

Level 1: Call Suvorov
Level 2: Ask Suvorov
Level 3: Get permission

Or just leave it as it is, with 1GP point for all of these: "Call Premier, ask Premier, receive permission from Premier." tongue.gif

Posted by: Hanfield 14 Jan 2017, 19:33

Not enough bureaucracy

Posted by: Purple 14 Jan 2017, 19:45

QUOTE (Hanfield @ 14 Jan 2017, 19:33) *
Not enough bureaucracy

The bureaucracy part is in the build time.

Every time you build a new missile the actual build time is like 5 seconds and having it ship to you is maybe another 5. The rest is you filling out the request forms in triplicate, mailing them, receiving confirmation forms to fill in, mailing those in, requisitioning the warhead and missile separately, getting two missiles delivered but no warhead and having to return the extra one with a complaint form... And all this with a state employed 70 year old office clerk who only types with his index finger one deliberate keystroke at a time on a mechanical typewriter.

Posted by: Hanfield 14 Jan 2017, 20:14

The Topol system will not be complete until one has to mail an actual request to SWR in order to buy a warhead :V

Posted by: Neutrino 16 Jan 2017, 1:47

About GLA,
- Is the grad an exclusive unit? If yes, do other GLA genrals get as replacement for it?
- Is Yusuf's focus on suicide units? Are the bomb trucks/terrorists exclusive to him? Does he get more demo weapons?
- I saw that Ibrahim will have acids to deal with vehicles. How are they going to be implemented? Will they be an upgrade for already available anti-tank weapons? Or will there be a unit(s) that uses acid as a primary weapon?

Posted by: (USA)Bruce 16 Jan 2017, 2:34

QUOTE (Neutrino @ 16 Jan 2017, 3:47) *
About GLA,
- Is the grad an exclusive unit? If yes, do other GLA genrals get as replacement for it?
- Is Yusuf's focus on suicide units? Are the bomb trucks/terrorists exclusive to him? Does he get more demo weapons?
- I saw that Ibrahim will have acids to deal with vehicles. How are they going to be implemented? Will they be an upgrade for already available anti-tank weapons? Or will there be a unit(s) that uses acid as a primary weapon?


1-No It isnt, IT used to be years ago but planes were changed.Perhaps ibrahim has scud instead but I am not sure
2-He gets unique upgrades to make you afraid of the general itself.Detecting wont be as good as beating him.Imagine sending a wave of bombtrucks disguised as battlebusses towards an overlord convoy and a wave of battlebusses disguised as bombtrucks on the other.
3-Soon TM

Posted by: SoraZ 16 Jan 2017, 3:08

QUOTE (Neutrino @ 16 Jan 2017, 1:47) *
About GLA,
- Is the grad an exclusive unit? If yes, do other GLA genrals get as replacement for it?
- Is Yusuf's focus on suicide units? Are the bomb trucks/terrorists exclusive to him? Does he get more demo weapons?
- I saw that Ibrahim will have acids to deal with vehicles. How are they going to be implemented? Will they be an upgrade for already available anti-tank weapons? Or will there be a unit(s) that uses acid as a primary weapon?


#1 No.
#2 Yusuuf's focus is on suiciders and stealth. Bomb Trucks are not exclusive to him, Terrorists and Demo Trucks are, however. As for more demo weapons, wait and see.
#3 Units with chemical weapons as primary. What those will be, wait and see.

QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 16 Jan 2017, 2:34) *
Perhaps ibrahim has scud instead but I am not sure

Scud is exclusive to him, but it doesn't replace his Grad.

Posted by: Gameman112358 16 Jan 2017, 5:12

QUOTE (Purple @ 14 Jan 2017, 10:45) *
The bureaucracy part is in the build time.

Every time you build a new missile the actual build time is like 5 seconds and having it ship to you is maybe another 5. The rest is you filling out the request forms in triplicate, mailing them, receiving confirmation forms to fill in, mailing those in, requisitioning the warhead and missile separately, getting two missiles delivered but no warhead and having to return the extra one with a complaint form... And all this with a state employed 70 year old office clerk who only types with his index finger one deliberate keystroke at a time on a mechanical typewriter.


Is that why it takes so goddamn long to get a nuclear warhead prepped for launch in-game? XD

But seriously, the fact that Topols and Missile Silos are still locked behind a GP is understandable IMO. They're no joke, considering that those nuclear MIRVs pretty much make most factions cry (especially if you're an ECA player). There has to be some sort of opportunity cost to using them. And it does make sense, thinking about it. Using nuclear weapons, even if they're tactical nukes (which are much less powerful than a strategic nuclear weapon) is very serious business, so it does make sense to have the GP represent the fact that Zhukov is calling the Russian Premier and asking for authorization of tactical nuclear weapons in the current battle zone. Besides, it sounds like the Nuclear Warfare GP will be expanded upon somehow. It makes me wonder if stuff like the Mercenary Contracts is going to be expanded upon as well (Though I know better than to pry).

Good to hear that Goliath is going to be going to be on all Russian subfaction aircraft. Goliath is a lifesaver for Russian aircraft in a lot of cases. Sounds like then that Orlov will be getting the most mileage out of them though, considering Hinds + Goliath = Ouch.

So only the Rank 1 GPs that give units are going to be removed (except for VVS, Nuclear Warfare, Mercenary Contracts, Munitions Bunker/Munitions Track GP, and probably something else I'm missing). Basically anything that gives you new units will be removed (Armored Company for example, since both units go to Bradley and no one else). That leads me back to my question about certain Rank 1 GPs that don't give units in 1.87 PB. I'm curious for the lore reasoning behind some of the GPs as well as if these GPs are going to be subfaction exclusive (The devs did say that they won't be making a ton of subfaction exclusive GPs, I think, but better to make sure). You guys made it sound like some of the GPs have a lore reason behind them as well as a gameplay one, so I'm curious. A few examples being:

1. Mass Mobilization (China)
What's the lore reason behind that GP? I know gameplay wise, it is designed for players that want to take China's spam tactics up to a new level, but in-universe wise, what does it represent? Does the GP represent the Chinese general in the battlefield requesting the Chinese Politburo for authorization to open up additional recruitment, training, and mass production capabilities? Also, is this GP going to be going to all of the Chinese generals? (Sorta doubt it's exclusive, considering all it does is allow faster production of basic units, but if it is, I imagine it will go to Chen.)
2. War Propaganda (China)
Kinda curious what this GP is supposed to represent, in-universe. I'm not even sure what to make of it gameplay wise. Gameplay means that a single unit self repairs, and has a constant horde bonus on itself (Kinda confused how you use that ability. Any pointers?). Lore wise, is the GP basically the Chinese general requesting the Chinese Politburo to allow broadcasting of certain 'hero' units out in the battlefield or something? (This GP is so confusing for me, both to use and how it makes sense in-universe)
3. Radio Intercepts (China, exclusive to General Jin, I think)
This one I'm really curious about. I know in terms of gameplay this ability is locked behind a GP because it is very powerful in terms of gaining battlefield intelligence, knowing where your enemy is, what they're doing, if they're going to strike or not, etc. Though I'm curious about the in-universe reasoning the GP represents. Is it because Jin needs to get authorization to use more powerful surveillance and hacking equipment? (Kinda strange if that is the case, considering Jin's speciality. XD)
4. Logistics Support (USA)
Gameplay, it's to boost your economy using Chinook Supply Teams, which, while slower, gather supplies faster than Ospreys, are more difficult to harass (higher health), and can be retrofitted with an assortment of weapons. Also to give you an 'oh sh*t' button if you run out of power (Backup Power Generators via CC) In-universe, perhaps the GP represents the American general requisitioning access to more reliable supply gatherers (Chinooks) and emergency power generators in the event of enemy infiltration?
5. Air Mobility (USA)
Gameplay wise, to make it easier to get your units around the map. Pretty cool way of doing it too, essentially calling in a Starlifter/Pavelow(later going to be Drone Airlifter), then using it to move your units around. Having a platoon of Paladins, Patriots, Avengers, etc come up from your flank all of a sudden because of this GP is nice. In-Universe, the American general is having to request command to give him access to call in helicopters waiting above the skies of the battlefield?
6. Combat Drugs (GLA)
Kind of a weird GP for me. Gameplay wise, essentially gives soldiers a boost to their attack power, but they take health damage because of it. GLA soldiers aren't particularly durable, but then again, I imagine lots of players focus on getting GLA soldiers to do as much damage as possible instead of trying to keep them alive (could be wrong about that though). Not my cup of tea, considering that you're likely to lose your attack force if you use such a thing, but then again, unit preservation isn't really the GLA's thing, is it? (U.S. is more focused around that, I think.) Lore wise, does it represent the GLA warlord in the battlefield signing a contract with drug lords to allow dispensing of combat drugs to all troops? Or is it something else altogether?
7. Tear Gas Strike (ECA)
Pretty obvious reasons why the Tear Gas Strike ability is locked behind a GP: Powerful army debuffer, can be used defensively (as an 'oh sh*t' button if the enemy army surprises you) or offensively (weaken the enemy defending army so your forces can survive much longer), and later on upgrades to Nerve Gas if you take the Pandora Protocol upgrade. Lore wise, I'm not really sure what the GP represents. Does it represent the ECA general requesting ECA High Command for unit debuff artillery support in the current battlefield? Also, I'm curious behind the lore reasoning for the Tear Gas Artillery becoming Nerve Gas Artillery. Is it because when you select the Pandora Protocol, the guys who handle the artillery gain access to Nerve Gas shells in place of regular Tear Gas? Or am I just overthinking it?

Posted by: Mizo 16 Jan 2017, 7:15

Not every GP need a lore reason but I can name a few :

- Mass Mobilization as the name indicates, sends an order to the army supreme order to give the order to prioritize mobilizing more platoons at this particular front. Due to the rapid speed of this mobilization process, there isn't enough time to teach vehicle crews and infantry squads on how to operate with advanced vehicles and weapons besides the basic knowledge on operating with battlemasters , gatling tanks and some rifles. The reason why this is a GP obviously means that the new protocol for army training needs to be issued first to the supreme command beforehand.

- War Propaganda spotlight can mean that the army is taking exclusive footage on those units and broadcasting ut to special media channels to propagate nationalism and also acts as a morale boast to the people. In return, those units that are around the "spotlight" would want to preform to the best of their efficiency since they have their country's eyes on them. You need permission and preperation for this media outlet to start broadcasting however.

- Ammunition Reserves doesn't really have the typical permission for a stronger power. It's just an order to bring in more ammunition to the frontline from the Supply HQ, or permission from Oberkommando to send reserve ammunitions to the frontlines and to build the munition bunkers ( risky due to the fact enemy can capture them, hence all the explosive measures taken to prevent the enemy from getting these supplies.

-Logistic Support is basically a protocol issued by CC to prioritize efficiency of logistic operations in the battlefield to make sure that all sectors function properly through a steady stream of supplies and power. To help you with that, USA issues modified Chinnoks that are particularly effective this job, and emergency generators are installed in the CC to power up sectors if power is low. I imagine it's too costly / not always recommended to install this protocol in every US base , hence why it depends on the general himself to assess when is it efficent to apply this.

Air Mobility is simple. Just an order from supreme command to shift focus on Rapid Transportations of their army battalions through air lifting. Air lifting is a generally risky procedure, hence it requires that the general see when the opportunity is fit to call in this kind of support rather than the main army wasting their budget on assets that is not needed/suitable in every front.

- Combat Drugs are developed by special GLA scientists that are tested to improve human attention and response over any sort of external stimuli as well as improving muscle strength , overall boasting reflexes. Not all GLA commanders have access to these particular drugs, that are still being developed by the scientists under the supervision of General Ibrahim. You need to ask his permission to access these drugs.

- Tear gas eh.....I got nothing x.x , just throw in the same.mumbo jumbo about asking permission or issueing an order for non-lethal artillery rounds to the frontline.

Posted by: Maelstrom 16 Jan 2017, 13:02

QUOTE (Mizo @ 16 Jan 2017, 7:15) *
- Tear gas eh.....I got nothing x.x , just throw in the same.mumbo jumbo about asking permission or issueing an order for non-lethal artillery rounds to the frontline.

Chemical weapons (which includes tear gas) are banned against ennemy forces by certain international conventions. This could be "asking for exceptional use of weapons that are globally declared illegal".

Posted by: Purple 16 Jan 2017, 14:02

There is a far simpler explanation if you ask me or anyone who knows anyone about chemical weapons.

Chemical weapons in general are not easy to use or store by any stretch of the imagination. Improperly handled they tend to leak or just plain deteriorate. And combat use, especially via artillery shells is very tricky because even slight changes in atmospheric pressure, temperature or god forbid wind can lead to the gas pooling near the ground or being blown away or being blown back on your own positions.

Thus in a modern (post WW1) relatively risk averse climate, both in terms of friendly corpses and wasted money, it is inevitable that the storage and deployment of chemical weapons is going to be a lengthy, complicated and most importantly costly affair handled by specialist troops outfitted with expensive equipment. So it makes quite a bit of sense that its going to require special clearance.

Posted by: SoraZ 16 Jan 2017, 16:44

QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 16 Jan 2017, 5:12) *
The devs did say that they won't be making a ton of subfaction exclusive GPs, I think, but better to make sure

Each General has 1 exclusive Rank 1 GP and 1 exclusive Rank 3 3-Level GP. All Generals of a given faction also have access to 2 shared Rank 1 GPs, 2 shared Rank 3 1-Level GPs, 1 shared Rank 3 3-Level GP and 2 shared Rank 5 GPs.

QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 16 Jan 2017, 5:12) *
1. Mass Mobilization (China)
2. War Propaganda (China)
3. Radio Intercepts (China, exclusive to General Jin, I think)
4. Logistics Support (USA)
5. Air Mobility (USA)
6. Combat Drugs (GLA)
7. Tear Gas Strike (ECA)


#1 Basicly you order your Warfactories to change production equipment. Throw out everything that's not required for the production of advanced vehicles and replace it with more of the basic assembly lines that can already give you Battlemasters, Gattling Tanks etc (simple enough, since these vehicles are so numerous you don't really need to produce entirely new ones, just outfit vintage vehicles with new tech - hence the build variations). Of course, not having to teach drivers complicated electronic weapons or wasting time of your engineers with jury-rigging turrets on your superheavies is also a plus.
#2 Chinese propaganda teaches their citizens to always give their best, conversely when you're in the spotlight you have to give even more to not dishonour yourself and everyone else. The power is basicly for inspiration of your vehicle crews to concentrate even more since "The State" just showed how much the state trusts the vehicle crew, so said crew cannot disappoint them. Due to being made out to be a "hero", other units are also inspired and gain the usual safe feeling of being among their peers (horde bonus) even though they aren't actually in a horde. It's a purely psychological effect, really.
#3 It's not so much authority for giving the order as giving the order itself being a difficult decision: hacking into your enemy comm-lines and applying all kinds of surveillance techniques, spies and the like are time-consuming and expensive, so it's not something that can be done nilly-willy. It also cannot be used all the time, otherwise your enemy may figure out your secrets and prepare counter-measures. By using it sparsely but efficiently, you can guarantee it remains effective.
#4 Emergency generators or even just hooking into local landlines and... borrowing power. The Chinooks... well, real Chinooks are a maintenance nightmare, so one can assume they were replaced by the Ospreys precisely because they're more efficient in the general way of doing their tasks, even at the detriment of collecting things more slowly. I for example would prefer a helicopter that doesn't need to go back to base for repairs every few hours, even if it means it cannot carry quite as much material as the other heli.
#5 It represents the doctrine of the US military - be able to strike anywhere, anytime. The USA are in a unique position in that they can provide military aid from their bases all around the world and for that reason they need capable flying transports - so guess what has become rather limited after the USA retreated in ZH. So if a General wants such unique mobility, they have to pull them from other places in the vicinity or even far away, which again is something that cannot be done nilly-willy.
#6 General Ibrahiim is precisely the kind of guy who'd drug his own soldiers to boost their firepower (aim, recoil resistance, pain resistance, that kind of stuff) even to the detriment of said soldiers. Remember, the GLA are mostly evil terrorists, they don't particularly care about the well-being of their frontline troops if it means victory, and indeed drugs that increase your mental abilities or numb you to pain but also burn you out exist and quite en masse, at that, so giving the order to hand all your soldiders such drugs to use in an emergency (or not) is quite possible. As for in-game, the power deduces a flat 30HP from your troops, so the power will only kill them when they're on low health already.
#7 As has been said, storing/handling chemical weapons is difficult and indeed using them is illegal. It's a very immoral decision, even compared to other weapon types - while a "humane" weapon does not exist, there is still a difference between a bullet that kills you outright, compared to the suffering induced by biochemicals or radiation poisoning; there is always a way that these can go horribly wrong and a General who authorizes their use must also live with the blame when things do actually go wrong. Nerve Gas in particular, along with the Neutron Bombs of the Pandora and Smart Bomb upgrade, are really the stuff of absolute last resort, when no other option is left (well unless the General and their commanders are plain evil, which is the case for almost nobody in ROTR, bar Aleksandr and an overwhelming part of the GLA, as mentioned). So yeah, it represents a moral decision born out of desperation: "Can we live with the consequences when things go wrong by using these things - or even the consequences of just using them at all?"

Posted by: Jet02 22 Jan 2017, 8:02

@m.p. do you plan to release rhe custom agre files anytime soon?

Posted by: M.P 22 Jan 2017, 8:59

Probs with next 1.87 public build, Yeah.

Posted by: Twister14 6 Apr 2018, 23:00

Hi,

this is my first time posting here if you guys don't mind tongue.gif

1). So all subversive generals will have some equivalent to the 'special forces' type of units? Like Thorn's Green Beret's or Orlov's Spetsnaz?

2). all the hero units will just be the same for all factions?

3). ECA will be the only faction to have things like the Venom and Manticore? None-whatsoever for the U.S.?

4). I'm pretty sure this has been answered before but 2.0 won't be as diverse as Shockwave then?

5). I hope that SuperSecretRussianThing with those huge drills fits somewhere eventually biggrin.gif

6). For Mau and Aleksander, there will be units like the Mini-gun team that are not 'exotic'(Railguns, Shenlong, Han gunship) in a way?

--I hope these questions weren't too bad to ask and that 1.87 is going pretty good I guess??

Posted by: Maelstrom 6 Apr 2018, 23:22

QUOTE (Twister14 @ 7 Apr 2018, 0:00) *
Hi,

this is my first time posting here if you guys don't mind tongue.gif

1). So all subversive generals will have some equivalent to the 'special forces' type of units? Like Thorn's Green Beret's or Orlov's Spetsnaz?
Maybe
2). all the hero units will just be the same for all factions?
Same for all factions.
3). ECA will be the only faction to have things like the Venom and Manticore? None-whatsoever for the U.S.?
ECA and Russia only
4). I'm pretty sure this has been answered before but 2.0 won't be as diverse as Shockwave then?
Indeed it won't
5). I hope that SuperSecretRussianThing with those huge drills fits somewhere eventually biggrin.gif
It doesn't exist. It's alie
6). For Mau and Aleksander, there will be units like the Mini-gun team that are not 'exotic'(Railguns, Shenlong, Han gunship) in a way?
Well, exotic weapons are pretty much what makes them unique...

Posted by: Gameman112358 6 Apr 2018, 23:34

Quick question, is it still okay to keep posting in this thread? I don't want to get in trouble for "necroing" posts, but at the same time I do feel that 2.0 is just on the horizon, once 1.87 is complete, so posting in this thread feels right. biggrin.gif

Posted by: ZunZero97 7 Apr 2018, 5:22

QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 6 Apr 2018, 18:34) *
Quick question, is it still okay to keep posting in this thread? I don't want to get in trouble for "necroing" posts, but at the same time I do feel that 2.0 is just on the horizon, once 1.87 is complete, so posting in this thread feels right. biggrin.gif

i too im interested with this post

Posted by: {Lads}RikerZZZ 7 Apr 2018, 6:33

I feel the necroing thing is a bit overstated. I get why people bring it up when reviving dead threads from 2 years ago, but there have been times when people complain about it from a thread from a couple weeks ago and that seems a but over the top to me.

Regardless, for this thread I dont see much more point speculating on 2.0 anyway. The way I understand it with 1.87 is it's basically getting all the coding framework for all the big 2.0 changes put into the game and The_Hunter is adding all the 2.0 things he makes into the game as he goes (hence why we have the new GLA airforce and Bombardiers etc). To me it sounds like because there is so much work being put into 1.87 to get that stuff done there shouldnt be that much of a wait (comparatively anyway) for 2.0 after its completed.

Posted by: Shiro 7 Apr 2018, 11:39

Well, the thing is that the current content from what I see is about 60%-70% of what 2.0 will feature, due to the fact that a lot of 2.0 content would overlap with existing things (Tesla Tanks alongside Buratinos, for example). Every faction has between one and two dozens items left to implement, so do not expect 2.0 to make it that quickly once the next release and last pre-2.0 release hits.

Posted by: Serialkillerwhale 7 Apr 2018, 20:59

There's also the issue of command bar bloat. Even with only 60-70%, many War Factories are already at the point of maximum capacity.

Posted by: XoGamer 8 Apr 2018, 11:09

yea but as you go into 2.0 some of the old units will be replaced and others removed for some factions so bloating shouldn't be too much of an issue

Posted by: Chuck Kawosky 8 Apr 2018, 13:39

ECA should have the Special Operations. Not USA. The British mastered modern Special Ops with the SAS in 1941, not the USA. The SAS created DELTA Force via Charles Beckwith in the 1970s. And the US Navy SEALS are modeled on the Royal Marines Commandos of WW2. This needs to be remedied.

The US Navy SEALs' original formation, the Observer Group, was also trained and influenced by British Commandos.[6] The US Special Forces originated with the First Special Service Force, formed under British Combined Operations.

The founder of DELTA FORCE Colonel Charles Alvin Beckwith, (January 22, 1929 – June 13, 1994), known as Chargin' Charlie, was a career U.S. Army Special Forces officer best remembered as helping create Delta Force, the premier counter terrorism and asymmetrical warfare unit of the U.S. Army.served as an exchange officer with the famous British Special Air Service (22 SAS Regiment) in 1962 where he learnt many of their capabilities, and used his newly found knowledge basically rewriting the book on American special ops training from the real-world lessons he had learned with the SAS to create the USA's first real special forces unit in the mid 70's known as DELTA Force, which is still modelled on British style tactics, expertise and traditions to this day. He used his SAS experience to test and select men for long-range reconnaissance operations in South Vietnam. Beckwith had also learned that a symbol of excellence like a beret had to be earned, giving birth of the modern Q-Course.

Green Berets and training origins:
Since the 20th century and World War II in particular, commandos have been set apart from other military units by virtue of their extreme training regimes; these are usually associated with the awarding of green berets which originated with British Commandos. The British Commandos were instrumental in founding many other international commando units during World War II. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando#Green_Berets_and_training_origins

The US Rangers were founded by Major General Lucian Truscott of the US Army, a liaison officer with the British General Staff. In 1942, he submitted a proposal to General George Marshall that an American unit be set up "along the lines of the British Commandos". The original US Rangers trained at the British Commandos centre at Achnacarry Castle.

Posted by: Maelstrom 8 Apr 2018, 14:02

For the love of whatever entity you believe in Chuck Kawosky...
REALISM NEVER WAS, IS NOT, AND NEVER WILL BE A VALID ARGUMENT

US will get spec ops, not ECA. Done

Posted by: Composite armour 8 Apr 2018, 14:20

Look at me, I am the spec ops now.

Posted by: {Lads}RikerZZZ 8 Apr 2018, 15:20

Eca does have special forces... theyre called the commando drop and they take a rank 3 gp... I fail to see the issue here

Posted by: Mizo 8 Apr 2018, 17:53

QUOTE (Chuck Kawosky @ 8 Apr 2018, 14:39) *
ECA should have the Special Operations. Not USA. The British mastered modern Special Ops with the SAS in 1941, not the USA. The SAS created DELTA Force via Charles Beckwith in the 1970s. And the US Navy SEALS are modeled on the Royal Marines Commandos of WW2. This needs to be remedied.

The US Navy SEALs' original formation, the Observer Group, was also trained and influenced by British Commandos.[6] The US Special Forces originated with the First Special Service Force, formed under British Combined Operations.

The founder of DELTA FORCE Colonel Charles Alvin Beckwith, (January 22, 1929 – June 13, 1994), known as Chargin' Charlie, was a career U.S. Army Special Forces officer best remembered as helping create Delta Force, the premier counter terrorism and asymmetrical warfare unit of the U.S. Army.served as an exchange officer with the famous British Special Air Service (22 SAS Regiment) in 1962 where he learnt many of their capabilities, and used his newly found knowledge basically rewriting the book on American special ops training from the real-world lessons he had learned with the SAS to create the USA's first real special forces unit in the mid 70's known as DELTA Force, which is still modelled on British style tactics, expertise and traditions to this day. He used his SAS experience to test and select men for long-range reconnaissance operations in South Vietnam. Beckwith had also learned that a symbol of excellence like a beret had to be earned, giving birth of the modern Q-Course.

Green Berets and training origins:
Since the 20th century and World War II in particular, commandos have been set apart from other military units by virtue of their extreme training regimes; these are usually associated with the awarding of green berets which originated with British Commandos. The British Commandos were instrumental in founding many other international commando units during World War II. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commando#Green_Berets_and_training_origins

The US Rangers were founded by Major General Lucian Truscott of the US Army, a liaison officer with the British General Staff. In 1942, he submitted a proposal to General George Marshall that an American unit be set up "along the lines of the British Commandos". The original US Rangers trained at the British Commandos centre at Achnacarry Castle.


Thing is infiltration tactics are abundant with ECA via their commandos and Frank Jager, which is available for all 3 generals. USA SpecOps works differently as their play style is less infiltration and more about tactical outmaneuvering using traps , stealth and very high mobility.

Posted by: XoGamer 8 Apr 2018, 18:59

Country A had weapon B irl so you have to give country A weapon B in game to make game more realistic so less not realism pls uwu

Posted by: TheViking92 10 Apr 2018, 15:12

more new units please !!! laugh.gif 8chi.png

Posted by: XoGamer 10 Apr 2018, 15:41

QUOTE (TheViking92 @ 10 Apr 2018, 15:12) *
more new units please !!! laugh.gif 8chi.png


1.87 already has more units than 1.86 and you can probably expect a shit ton of units in 2.0

Posted by: Dennis 18 Feb 2020, 17:06

Hi all...
What happend with the big version 2.0. Is the version dead or ?

Posted by: Mizo 20 Feb 2020, 1:39

The Hunter is really busy right now. He certainly confirmed to us very recently that he is not planning to quit, but he is simply not finding the time.

Posted by: Dennis 20 Feb 2020, 17:22

QUOTE (Mizo @ 20 Feb 2020, 1:39) *
The Hunter is really busy right now. He certainly confirmed to us very recently that he is not planning to quit, but he is simply not finding the time.


We are many many who is waiting for the big version, so many thanks for answering my question :-)


Posted by: Dennis 3 Apr 2020, 16:27

QUOTE (Dennis @ 20 Feb 2020, 18:22) *
We are many many who is waiting for the big version, so many thanks for answering my question :-)


Anything new about the big version 2.0 ?

Posted by: Emin96 3 Apr 2020, 20:40

QUOTE (Dennis @ 3 Apr 2020, 17:27) *
Anything new about the big version 2.0 ?

Yes there is news about 2.0

When its done

Posted by: Emin96 7 Apr 2020, 4:00

QUOTE (Shiro @ 7 Apr 2018, 12:39) *
Well, the thing is that the current content from what I see is about 60%-70% of what 2.0 will feature, due to the fact that a lot of 2.0 content would overlap with existing things (Tesla Tanks alongside Buratinos, for example). Every faction has between one and two dozens items left to implement, so do not expect 2.0 to make it that quickly once the next release and last pre-2.0 release hits.

i know this reply was about 2 years ago but what you are saying mean like 4 tanks per general to be implemented for example?. i tough 2.0 was alot of new content.
i will give gla as example. tecnical,scorpion,quad cannon,bike,toxin tractor,grad if are for all generals then what left for new implements just rest 3-4 tanks to add?
or there it will work differently? i appreciate if someone help me for this question

Posted by: Mizo 8 Apr 2020, 13:32

2.0 unit divisions will not be in the same level as Shockwave. Basically how new content will be rolled will be like this :

- Either a particular unit in a common unit class like for example *Main Battle Tank* or *Tier 1 Artillery* will have an exclusive replacement, which can either be better in stats or have more utility that fits the general's playstyle.

- General-Exclusive units do not replace any other unit but simply act as a special class type. Mercenaries are a good example, as they are exclusive to 1 GLA general but wont act as any replacements for other infantry units, rather they are their own class.

- Each general possess exclusive upgrades and special perks that may affect common units uniquely to fit their style. A good example are Lazer Rangefinders which are unique to USA Armor General, and this will basically make their Crusaders better than the other 2 ones. His tanks will also have alot more perks but I cant spoil them here because of NDA.

So that's how the assets in 2.0 will be categorized. Keep in mind there are still many *generic* or *common* unit classes that are missing for factions, that will be added in the future.

Posted by: re_simeone 9 Apr 2020, 0:00

I must not be first one to ask this, but any chance this global pandemic all of us are experiencing can be a blessing in disguise for the development of the ROTR?

Posted by: Hanfield 10 Apr 2020, 12:52

wouldn't bet on it

Posted by: Emin96 10 Apr 2020, 18:06

QUOTE (Mizo @ 8 Apr 2020, 14:32) *
2.0 unit divisions will not be in the same level as Shockwave. Basically how new content will be rolled will be like this :

- Either a particular unit in a common unit class like for example *Main Battle Tank* or *Tier 1 Artillery* will have an exclusive replacement, which can either be better in stats or have more utility that fits the general's playstyle.

- General-Exclusive units do not replace any other unit but simply act as a special class type. Mercenaries are a good example, as they are exclusive to 1 GLA general but wont act as any replacements for other infantry units, rather they are their own class.

- Each general possess exclusive upgrades and special perks that may affect common units uniquely to fit their style. A good example are Lazer Rangefinders which are unique to USA Armor General, and this will basically make their Crusaders better than the other 2 ones. His tanks will also have alot more perks but I cant spoil them here because of NDA.

So that's how the assets in 2.0 will be categorized. Keep in mind there are still many *generic* or *common* unit classes that are missing for factions, that will be added in the future.

Well how about heavy AA units i mean china all 3 generals will have twingfang or jin will get something ecm related stuff? same for gla and eca they will get normal heavy AA? that we already know?
Or its unreleaved stuff?

Posted by: Mizo 10 Apr 2020, 18:21

Not every unit class will have a general exclusive replacement for every faction.

Posted by: ThePooch 14 Jul 2020, 3:32

I hope all the of the scrapped units in Generals, Zero Hour and Rise of the Reds be incorporarted into version 2.0, and each general do not have the same unit (i.e. All USA generals have Humvees).

Posted by: Dennis 22 Sep 2020, 18:05

QUOTE (ThePooch @ 14 Jul 2020, 4:32) *
I hope all the of the scrapped units in Generals, Zero Hour and Rise of the Reds be incorporarted into version 2.0, and each general do not have the same unit (i.e. All USA generals have Humvees).



I do not think you should expect a version 2.0 to come at all.
We have been waiting for years now and nothing comes from the staff sitting and developing the game. It must therefore be considered dead!

Posted by: Shiro 27 Sep 2020, 20:13

Not to be the pessimist, but realistically? Yeah, 2.0 probably won't exist the way it was planned. If it will exist at all, it will probably be in a shrunk form that whoever remains to develop it can finish at least.

Posted by: re_simeone 30 Sep 2020, 19:51

Oh boy... At least honest answer. Such shame when ambitious mods die deaths as this one.

Posted by: XAOC-RU- 5 Oct 2020, 22:21

QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 16 Dec 2016, 6:25) *
Since 1.87 is (probably) around the last few stages of being released as a polished full version (Public beta tells me the devs are close; could be wrong though), and 2.0 is coming right after 1.87, I figure it's time to start talking about the biggest change that is coming to 2.0: the inclusion of subfaction generals for all of the factions in the game.

Hey, I'm back and ROTR is still dead (Beta-testing a.k.a 1.87) mani8.gif
4 years past (or maybe more) since 1.87 version testing. I hope Mr. Hunter is not alone and some people help him to make it or we will be old with big eyelasses when this game will be done biggrin.gif

Posted by: ZunZero97 7 Oct 2020, 20:56

this mod is in progess?? Any news??

Posted by: Dennis 10 Oct 2020, 6:20

QUOTE (ZunZero97 @ 7 Oct 2020, 21:56) *
this mod is in progess?? Any news??


The big version 2 is dead i think!

Posted by: Tipu7 28 Jan 2021, 6:58

QUOTE (Dennis @ 10 Oct 2020, 7:20) *
The big version 2 is dead i think!

That will be very disheartening. I have quit all other games, ROTR remains the only one which I wish to resume playing once 2.0 will be available. It's being years...
I remember, initially the plans for dedicated naval units for each factions were scrapped. Imagine a dedicated naval fleet of each faction!
But yeah, that plan became victim of circumstances. But still the hope was there for remaining 2.0.
That hope, is fading away.

Posted by: Jester 7 Mar 2021, 12:33

Who is even left developing the Mod anymore? I haven't seen Comrade mentioned in a long time and many others for that matter.

Posted by: Dennis 22 Mar 2021, 8:07

QUOTE (Jester @ 7 Mar 2021, 13:33) *
Who is even left developing the Mod anymore? I haven't seen Comrade mentioned in a long time and many others for that matter.


I think the projekt is DEAD. Nothing is happend for about 2 years now!!!

Posted by: Dillus 25 Mar 2021, 17:09

Hopefully there is progress, so far this is one of the best mod that I see in ZH.

Posted by: Jester 28 Mar 2021, 19:36

I just hope we get the Goshawk before the mod dies

Posted by: Emin96 29 Mar 2021, 21:45

QUOTE (Jester @ 28 Mar 2021, 20:36) *
I just hope we get the Goshawk before the mod dies

Why goshawk? Well goshawk is planned for ECA general charles, you wont see that unit before 2.0

Posted by: Jester 30 Mar 2021, 18:23

QUOTE (Emin96 @ 29 Mar 2021, 21:45) *
Why goshawk? Well goshawk is planned for ECA general charles, you wont see that unit before 2.0

Because it looks badass and unique

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