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How to change aircraft height when attacking a target, Change the desert fly in particular
hawkseye17
post 10 Jul 2016, 6:30
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I don't know if this goes here or in ZH modding but oh well.

I changed the camera height in the game but all the airplanes then looked ridiculous at their height, so I made them fly higher (from 100 to 200 for fighters). This wasn't a problem for most because they attack with missiles or bombs. The problem came when I tried to use the desert fly. The aim was way off for both the gun and bombs, they kept overshooting way past the actual target.

What I want to know is if there is a way to make the plane dive attack like the A10 so I can leave the height at 200; OR if i can make the plane fly to higher altitudes to attack aircraft (thus drop it's regular height to 125 or something).
I really need some help because I can't use the desert fly until this gets fixed.
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3rdShockArmy
post 10 Jul 2016, 9:12
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AFAIK, Desert Fly isn't meant to be very precise. It's an old WWII vintage, so it can't compete with US and PRC aircraft, it has a paper-thin armor and is only good in AA and anti-infantry role. Consequently, giving it a higher altitude won't help at all.
Now, the problem is that there's no problem with the Desert Fly. If you alter the game, and then there's something you don't like, that's not really a bug or something that requires fixing, because it's wasn't the Devs who screwed up. It was you. Now, this isn't bashing, I'm just being blunt. You won't get any "fixes" for something that isn't broken at all.

This post has been edited by 3rdShockArmy: 10 Jul 2016, 9:13


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hawkseye17
post 10 Jul 2016, 16:46
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 10 Jul 2016, 4:12) *
AFAIK, Desert Fly isn't meant to be very precise. It's an old WWII vintage, so it can't compete with US and PRC aircraft, it has a paper-thin armor and is only good in AA and anti-infantry role. Consequently, giving it a higher altitude won't help at all.
Now, the problem is that there's no problem with the Desert Fly. If you alter the game, and then there's something you don't like, that's not really a bug or something that requires fixing, because it's wasn't the Devs who screwed up. It was you. Now, this isn't bashing, I'm just being blunt. You won't get any "fixes" for something that isn't broken at all.



I just want to know how to change the height when attacking, if anyone knows how. The desert fly really is inacurate, by a lot, with the new height.
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The_Hunter
post 10 Jul 2016, 23:00
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there is no way of fixing this as the angle of attack is part of the Desert fly model files.


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Zeke
post 11 Jul 2016, 4:01
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 10 Jul 2016, 16:12) *
AFAIK, Desert Fly isn't meant to be very precise. It's an old WWII vintage, so it can't compete with US and PRC aircraft, it has a paper-thin armor and is only good in AA and anti-infantry role. Consequently, giving it a higher altitude won't help at all.
Now, the problem is that there's no problem with the Desert Fly. If you alter the game, and then there's something you don't like, that's not really a bug or something that requires fixing, because it's wasn't the Devs who screwed up. It was you. Now, this isn't bashing, I'm just being blunt. You won't get any "fixes" for something that isn't broken at all.


And this, ladies and gentlemen, is a prime example of why it is important to carefully read a post before replying.

Just like the broken desert flies in his mod, your reply has completely missed its mark.

He never said anything about the desert fly being unbalanced, he's not even reporting a bug, he's asking for modding help because he accidentally broke something in the game. Nowhere does it say that it was the devs fault, or that it should be fixed by them.

Anyway, hunter's already answered the question. There's no way of making buildable units dive before attacking like the A10. You can sort off do it by setting an attack locomotor like the aurora, but that will make it start diving as soon as you give the attack order regardless of it's distance to the target.


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3rdShockArmy
post 11 Jul 2016, 11:49
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QUOTE (hawkseye17 @ 10 Jul 2016, 7:30) *
I really need some help because I can't use the desert fly until this gets fixed.

@Zeke
I believe the bolded word says it all. I really don't see where did I said that his claim was that Desert Fly was unbalanced. He said it misses the target a lot when he increased the altitude. And than he said:

QUOTE (hawkseye17 @ 10 Jul 2016, 7:30) *
I really need some help because I can't use the desert fly until this gets fixed.


Gets fixed is the key word here. Who is to get it "fixed"?


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Zeke
post 11 Jul 2016, 17:03
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 11 Jul 2016, 18:49) *
Gets fixed is the key word here. Who is to get it "fixed"?


Yes let's completely ignore everything op has said and just focus on one word, that's how reading is done.

Obviously, he means to fix himself, hence why he's asking for help.


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3rdShockArmy
post 11 Jul 2016, 17:19
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Whatever. That word was key in this whole issue. If he knew how to make those changes, I don't see how much of a trouble is it to revert them.


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GeneralCamo
post 11 Jul 2016, 19:46
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I moved your post to the C&C Generals Modding Forum to prevent any additional confusion.

If this was possible, this would have likely been done for the Desert Fly and equivilent aircraft in ROTR. However, this is unfortunately not possible. If I may ask though, what is the problem with the Desert Fly? Do the bullets hit beyond their target, or does it not fire at all? There may be another way to fix it, like editing the bones in the model.
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hawkseye17
post 11 Jul 2016, 20:37
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QUOTE (GeneralCamo @ 11 Jul 2016, 14:46) *
I moved your post to the C&C Generals Modding Forum to prevent any additional confusion.

If this was possible, this would have likely been done for the Desert Fly and equivilent aircraft in ROTR. However, this is unfortunately not possible. If I may ask though, what is the problem with the Desert Fly? Do the bullets hit beyond their target, or does it not fire at all? There may be another way to fix it, like editing the bones in the model.



At the angle that the bullets fire towards the ground, they shoot way behind the target.
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hawkseye17
post 11 Jul 2016, 20:38
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 10 Jul 2016, 23:01) *
Anyway, hunter's already answered the question. There's no way of making buildable units dive before attacking like the A10. You can sort off do it by setting an attack locomotor like the aurora, but that will make it start diving as soon as you give the attack order regardless of it's distance to the target.



How do I make an attack locomotor, cause that would be fine by me, seems like something I could do.
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Zeke
post 12 Jul 2016, 2:10
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QUOTE (hawkseye17 @ 12 Jul 2016, 3:38) *
How do I make an attack locomotor, cause that would be fine by me, seems like something I could do.


Check the aurora's codes. You'll know it when you see it.


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hawkseye17
post 12 Jul 2016, 4:45
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 11 Jul 2016, 21:10) *
Check the aurora's codes. You'll know it when you see it.



Now I've run into a problem, the plane treats air and ground as the same thing when attacking, any way to change that so it uses the right locomotor when attacking planes or ground?
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Zeke
post 12 Jul 2016, 5:39
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QUOTE (hawkseye17 @ 12 Jul 2016, 11:45) *
Now I've run into a problem, the plane treats air and ground as the same thing when attacking, any way to change that so it uses the right locomotor when attacking planes or ground?


Nope


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hawkseye17
post 12 Jul 2016, 6:45
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 12 Jul 2016, 0:39) *
Nope



Well crap. What about making the gun shoot at the target instead of just the ground, it removes strafing runs but the plane should hit stuff at least.
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Kahzei
post 12 Jul 2016, 6:56
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As long as we're on this topic, can I bring up the Desert Fly's tendency to not hit anything at all? I usually have to aggressively micro them just to not overshoot the target. Leaving them on Area Guard is borderline futile, as their turning arcs are almost never tight enough to put rounds on target. They're highly effective air-guard units, but hitting anything on the ground without backseat piloting is a 50/50 proposition at best. Sometimes even if the target is a static structure. I understand that gun runs are by their nature imprecise, but that's why it's an AoE in the first place; putting the AoE in the right spot doesn't seem like too much to ask.



Ever since 1.2 I've occasionally also had the exact opposite happen, where the pilot slams the air brakes on a target heading the same direction as it and just loiters indefinitely with a never-ending machinegun barrage. I once had a single Fly kill an Overlord with a single sustained burst as it followed it at glider speed across the map.

Desert Fly is my favorite unit in the entire mod. I'd be stoked to see them do what they're implicitly supposed to. Being able to directly engage aircraft with their main guns was probably my favorite change in 1.2.
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Stalker
post 12 Jul 2016, 7:06
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I haven't checked the codes, but I'm pretty sure the Desert Fly works with firebones being aligned at a fixed angle. So the projectiles will always fly downwards at an angle of e.g. 30°

To change where its projectiles hit, you need to adjust its attack range. In this case, try reducing its range a bit.

EDIT: Dumb mistake. Of course you need to increase its range.

This post has been edited by Stalker: 12 Jul 2016, 10:10


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Zeke
post 12 Jul 2016, 15:50
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QUOTE (hawkseye17 @ 12 Jul 2016, 13:45) *
Well crap. What about making the gun shoot at the target instead of just the ground, it removes strafing runs but the plane should hit stuff at least.


You'll have to change the desert fly's gun into a regular machine gun weapon, and probably give it a turret that can't turn but can pitch. You can check the Comanche object and weapon codes for clues on how to do that.


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hawkseye17
post 12 Jul 2016, 20:17
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 12 Jul 2016, 10:50) *
You'll have to change the desert fly's gun into a regular machine gun weapon, and probably give it a turret that can't turn but can pitch. You can check the Comanche object and weapon codes for clues on how to do that.



The strafing runs and bombs work great now, thanks. I've lowered the planes altitude to 150 but now when it shoots helicopters (which fly lower), the bullets seem to go towards the target then turn and hit the top of the target, for some reason the gun doesn't aim directly at it.

Here's the turret that handles Air to Air:


AltTurret
TurretTurnRate = 0
TurretPitchRate = 180
AllowsPitch = Yes
ControlledWeaponSlots = SECONDARY ; Machine Gun air to air
End

I attached a (bad) picture of what it generally looks like.

This post has been edited by hawkseye17: 12 Jul 2016, 20:27
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Attached File  Desert_Fly_attack.png ( 6.09K ) Number of downloads: 9
 
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Zeke
post 13 Jul 2016, 3:18
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QUOTE (hawkseye17 @ 13 Jul 2016, 3:17) *
The strafing runs and bombs work great now, thanks. I've lowered the planes altitude to 150 but now when it shoots helicopters (which fly lower), the bullets seem to go towards the target then turn and hit the top of the target, for some reason the gun doesn't aim directly at it.

Here's the turret that handles Air to Air:


AltTurret
TurretTurnRate = 0
TurretPitchRate = 180
AllowsPitch = Yes
ControlledWeaponSlots = SECONDARY ; Machine Gun air to air
End

I attached a (bad) picture of what it generally looks like.


That's just the nature of dumb projectile objects and can't really be fixed. I'd say check other aa machine gun weapons check if they use a different projectile, or no projectile at all, and make a seperate aa weapon for the desert fly.

Also, I don't think you need an alt turret, just make all the weapons share the default one.


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hawkseye17
post 13 Jul 2016, 6:56
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 12 Jul 2016, 22:18) *
That's just the nature of dumb projectile objects and can't really be fixed. I'd say check other aa machine gun weapons check if they use a different projectile, or no projectile at all, and make a seperate aa weapon for the desert fly.

Also, I don't think you need an alt turret, just make all the weapons share the default one.



Welp I couldn't find a good projectile so I made it be invisible. The plane still looks like it shoots and it still looks like it hits. Best I could do. Thanks for the help, don't think I would've gotten anywhere without it.
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(USA)Bruce
post 13 Jul 2016, 10:53
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Hello there, Im a random tester that has barely any idea how the engine works....

Just throwing out a bone, for the angle of the aircraft to change while diving in, any way you can use the A-10's behavior?


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Zeke
post 13 Jul 2016, 11:20
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 13 Jul 2016, 17:53) *
Hello there, Im a random tester that has barely any idea how the engine works....

Just throwing out a bone, for the angle of the aircraft to change while diving in, any way you can use the A-10's behavior?


No. Not unless it is a gen power.

This post has been edited by Zeke: 13 Jul 2016, 11:23


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