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China's gameplay without nuclear weapons nor chenlong/overlord.
Neutrino
post 14 Apr 2018, 20:49
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I don't know why but nuclear weapons and overlord/chenlong seem like a no brainer choice especially in the longer lasting games.

  1. Is there a match/replay where china's spam capabilities are demonstrated?
  2. How does spam/propaganda fair against russian lategame?
  3. Suppose I choose Jin in 2.0, which to my knowledge does not have mass mobilization nor heavy firepower units. How would the gameplay be?
  4. Given that all current chinese firepower (chenlong, black napalm upgrade, nuke cannon, han, nukeneer, disruptor team...) goes to one general, how will this affect the player's choice in 2.0?


This post has been edited by Neutrino: 14 Apr 2018, 20:52


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XoGamer
post 14 Apr 2018, 21:43
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I will try to answer this as best as I can, but the devs, testers and more experienced players will perhaps have better answers.

1) Check the latest 1.87 1.4 replay with USA & China spam.

2) Powerful, but best when combined with aircraft [for mobility] and ECM.

3) iirc all Generals get mass mobilization, but Jin is the least revealed General. He will likely get more powerful ECMs, bunkers, infantry and propaganda.

4) what? no, the generals will be balanced. When Mau gets all the nukes etc., Chen gets overlords and Helix and high spam, powerful armour and straightforward strength that other generals do not have whilst Jin might get what I have mentioned above.


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Mizo
post 14 Apr 2018, 21:47
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QUOTE
Is there a match/replay where china's spam capabilities are demonstrated?


There probably is. Mass Mobilization red guard and hopper spam is no joke.

QUOTE
How does spam/propaganda fair against russian lategame?


You cant really go mass spam that early on without economy so most of the time mass spam assaults are usually divided in order to encircle the enemy rather than to just breakthrough from one point.

QUOTE
Suppose I choose Jin in 2.0, which to my knowledge does not have mass mobilization nor heavy firepower units. How would the gameplay be?


He will have certain borderline imba abilities and units/ abilities that are not directly combat oriented but rather should be used with his other basic units. His playstyle will be very far from the traditional China Spam and more into GLA-ish tactics mixed in with USA's skill and versatility. He's probably going to be the hardest to play because of that reason.

QUOTE
Given that all current chinese firepower (chenlong, black napalm upgrade, nuke cannon, han, nukeneer, disruptor team...) goes to one general, how will this affect the player's choice in 2.0?


Those units belong to Mau who specializes in area of effect weapons as all these assets demonstrate. The other 2 will get other sources of firepower befitting their playstyle. Chen will rely on mechanized warfare alongside mass hordes of expendable units while Jin will be more of a trickster.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 14 Apr 2018, 21:49


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(USA)Bruce
post 14 Apr 2018, 21:51
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QUOTE (Neutrino @ 14 Apr 2018, 22:49) *
I don't know why but nuclear weapons and overlord/chenlong seem like a no brainer choice especially in the longer lasting games.

  1. Is there a match/replay where china's spam capabilities are demonstrated?
  2. How does spam/propaganda fair against russian lategame?
  3. Suppose I choose Jin in 2.0, which to my knowledge does not have mass mobilization nor heavy firepower units. How would the gameplay be?
  4. Given that all current chinese firepower (chenlong, black napalm upgrade, nuke cannon, han, nukeneer, disruptor team...) goes to one general, how will this affect the player's choice in 2.0?


1- There's streams but I couldnt point them out for you, I personally rarely pick unlocks because I believe that every faction should be viable by itself/vanilla, even if theres alot of people who disagree with that notion.
You know who you are, reveal yourselves!

2-Spam is always good but the issue is generally the map size, mstas outrange Infernos, You cant engage a russia without Infernos and disruptors for the heavies.To kill their mstas you need migs, with russias anti air system your migs are on a one way trip.If you dont have nuke cannons and you dont have enough micro/airfield buildspace then you'll die.
So if you can supress their arty and keep up the spam then you'll beat them.FLare GP or blimps help too of course.Also boris is a bane to you if you dont have forward barracks for disruptor/volenteer spam then you wont have a chance to get minigunners to counter boris.
Chinas best perk is their secondary eco, what they cant beat they can outeco most of the time.
3-Theres a few of Jins toys but I think hes the least represented with the content in the game.Jin will be great versus US/GLA with the best intel and annoying gameplay. He will make sure that you either play by his rules or you die

4-They will lack that extra punch at rank 5 napalm and Inferno spam wont be as strong, people will never build pyros for open ground engagements even more
But they will get other things to trade for that...Dont worry

At a time I imagined that thorn would be a worse orlov, cause orlov is still russia but with sentinels.But theres more yet to come


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Serialkillerwhal...
post 15 Apr 2018, 0:59
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Jin has the best Vision in the game, and I think he gets exclusive ECM and such.

And IIRC, he still gets subliminal messaging boosted battlemasters and red guards, which are no joke.

Really, each faction has one general thats rather underrepresented.

Russia; Zhukov: Besides Topols, nothing Zhukov has been revealed.

GLA: Ibrahiim: Besides the Anthrax Gamma Upgrade and Crop Duster, most of the stuff you're using is Sulaymaan, Vanilla, and Yusuuf gear.

ECA: Wolfgang: There's the Jagdmammut, and that's pretty much it.

China: Jin, as mentioned above.

US: US is better about this than the other factions with a fair bit of stuff from each general, but IMHO, the current playstyle is more Thorne/Griffon than Bradley.

This post has been edited by Serialkillerwhale: 15 Apr 2018, 1:06


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Maelstrom
post 15 Apr 2018, 22:28
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QUOTE (Serialkillerwhale @ 15 Apr 2018, 1:59) *
Russia; Zhukov: Besides Topols, nothing Zhukov has been revealed.
He will get backfire as his unique GP. He will also get the Tor M1 as a replacement for the Grumble. Plus other stuff ofc ^^

GLA: Ibrahiim: Besides the Anthrax Gamma Upgrade and Crop Duster, most of the stuff you're using is Sulaymaan, Vanilla, and Yusuuf gear.
Crop duster is in another mod my friend

ECA: Wolfgang: There's the Jagdmammut, and that's pretty much it.
He also has the field promotion GP

China: Jin, as mentioned above.
He has exclusive access to the ECM tank, com intercept and the ECM flare bomb

US: US is better about this than the other factions with a fair bit of stuff from each general, but IMHO, the current playstyle is more Thorne/Griffon than Bradley.
Quite correct



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Serialkillerwhal...
post 15 Apr 2018, 23:24
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1: While he will get other things later, TOPOLs are the only currently in-game unit meant for Zhukov. Admittedly the word "revealed" might not have been the best one.
2: The Helicopter that sprays Anthrax. Forgot it's name.
3: I wasn't counting GPs, just army units.
4: I did say Jin has the best Vision in the game, and I think he gets exclusive ECM and such.

This post has been edited by Serialkillerwhale: 15 Apr 2018, 23:26


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 16 Apr 2018, 1:12
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To my knowledge the ECM advantage for Jin was slightly changed. The original plan was that only Jin would have access to ECM's and the other Chinas would have... well, nothing.
Im pretty sure this has changed and now all Chinese Generals get ECM and Jin gets better and/or more ECM as part of his normal unit roster.


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Maelstrom
post 16 Apr 2018, 7:42
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QUOTE (Serialkillerwhale @ 16 Apr 2018, 0:24) *
2: The Helicopter that sprays Anthrax. Forgot it's name.

Plague Duster.
And no, it is not exclusive to Ibrahiim


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Mizo
post 16 Apr 2018, 11:31
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 16 Apr 2018, 2:12) *
To my knowledge the ECM advantage for Jin was slightly changed. The original plan was that only Jin would have access to ECM's and the other Chinas would have... well, nothing.
Im pretty sure this has changed and now all Chinese Generals get ECM and Jin gets better and/or more ECM as part of his normal unit roster.


To clarify, other generals' ECM units are absolute garbage as intended. To put things in prespective, Bloodhound's chaff is leagues ahead of those units.


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Shiro
post 17 Apr 2018, 12:48
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The most represented General for China is currently Mau. Jin has the second-least amount of things in the game, and Chen the least period, but not by much. However, Jin's playstyle will be radically different from common China - Chen as the Exaggerator will mainly get more toys that can be spammed and are straight-forward, Mau's new toys are also generally brute-force. Jin will rely on difficult tricks, battlefield surveilance, superior ECM/defence compared to the others, and since the Propaganda Airship is his, will have a better chance at keeping units alive when out in battle.
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Neutrino
post 17 Apr 2018, 18:32
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 14 Apr 2018, 23:51) *
2-Spam is always good but the issue is generally the map size, mstas outrange Infernos, You cant engage a russia without Infernos and disruptors for the heavies.To kill their mstas you need migs, with russias anti air system your migs are on a one way trip.If you dont have nuke cannons and you dont have enough micro/airfield buildspace then you'll die.
So if you can supress their arty and keep up the spam then you'll beat them.FLare GP or blimps help too of course.Also boris is a bane to you if you dont have forward barracks for disruptor/volenteer spam then you wont have a chance to get minigunners to counter boris.
Chinas best perk is their secondary eco, what they cant beat they can outeco most of the time.


Id love to watch a replay showcasing what you said. Not that I question this but at least Id learn how outeco and outspam other factions using china, again without Mau weapons. Id love to see a long russia vs china game and see who wins.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 17 Apr 2018, 23:20
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 16 Apr 2018, 12:31) *
To clarify, other generals' ECM units are absolute garbage as intended. To put things in prespective, Bloodhound's chaff is leagues ahead of those units.


That is interesting. I was expecting something lurks times ECM ability on a modified troop crawler or something, but if it's worse than chaff then well I am excited to play USA vs China in the future then! 😊


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XAttus
post 18 Apr 2018, 15:59
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As someone who plays china in pvp a lot, I can tell you that you can very rarely go without unlocks. Now, it's pretty map and match type dependent and some 1v1 games can end before you get to those heavy units but generally speaking the following happens:

- Either the skill difference is too big and you crush your opponent without needing T2
- Same as above but the other way around so you get wrecked earlier

- Both of you are over 9000 high level, first bigger mistake means game over, in this case it might be relevant that you didn't pick that unlock but most often that's not the case.

- And what happens the most: both of you are good and unable to deal a decisive blow early on, so late game comes and that's when you want those overlords or nuke cannons the most, without them there is a good chance that you'll be the one who falls first.

Again, I emphasize that's it's match-up dependent, skill dependent, game type dependent, but more often you'll want to unlock something than not.

Oh, to answer the "how does russian heavies go vs china's heavies?" question:

Depends what's being thrown at you. First 2 facts:

1. Your Han gunships are only useful to defend your base from reinforcement drops or sneaky flanking. Russia can too easily make sure you'll be unable to do anything else with them.
2. Volunteer spam is good, but now that bombardiers are in + if he picks tesla GP and arms shock troopers with tesla guns then they are hardcountered and useless. If none of these conditions apply then spam the crap out of them and snipe any buratinos with migs.

I. Ironically sentinels are the least of your problems. You have many tools to deal with them and they are nothing special for you on their own.

- If it's sentinel spam with some random units: Lotus, Inferno cannons in numbers, nuke cannons, both types of migs, IF you have numbers or don't care about losses too much then overlords or massive army of battlemasters.

II. When problems start / many things can go wrong for either player category:

- Sentinels with a lot of MSTAs behind them: Nuke cannons are a must, the radiation from the shots hitting the tanks is actually the best way to deal with this. Combine with battlemaster, Overlord flanking from the sides aimed at the MSTAs for best results.
- Golemspam with a lot of MSTAs: Russia's answer to your Nuke cannons, this requires a very good managment of infernos, nuke cannons, frenzy and a ton of sec eco to deal with because you'll sustain heavy losses and Russia should not / will not spam golems without going for their upgrade which makes them ridiculously good for their price. Good luck, you'll need it. ALOT

Notice that I didn't mention overlords much, but russia can force this pick on you simply by making a good use of shock troopers / bombardiers. There is NO tool to effectively deal with shock infantry without NCs or GattlingLords. Your inferno cannons will get butchered by MSTAs, you can bet on that.

This post has been edited by XAttus: 18 Apr 2018, 16:29


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XoGamer
post 18 Apr 2018, 17:52
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china would have to have major changes before something as big as that ECM nerf.

also why would their ecm be worse than chaff? that just sounds wrong considering ecm should be better than chaff


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 20 Apr 2018, 4:20
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I remembered I had a game from a while ago where I went low unit china spam. This is from a couple patches ago, but you could still do something similar.

Theres also a china mirror on the Generals Gentlemen's youtube page where Bruce and I played 2 different types of china, i went the low spammy type, he went for big boy overlords.

This post has been edited by {Lads}RikerZZZ: 22 Apr 2018, 0:38


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Neutrino
post 21 Apr 2018, 19:05
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 20 Apr 2018, 6:20) *


I remembered I had a game from a while ago where I went low unit china spam. This is from a couple patches ago, but you could still do something similar.

Theres also a china mirror on the Generals Gentlemen's youtube page where Bruce and I played 2 different types of china, i went the low spammy type, he went for big boy overlords.


Im guetting a playback error can you send another link?


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 22 Apr 2018, 0:39
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uwwhp13LdA

Just have the link lol


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ZunZero97
post 22 Apr 2018, 4:08
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1. i dont know maybe
2 very good
3 ecm, intense propaganda war, frenzy everywhere, hacking against enemy base maybe and strong line of defence
4 i think in the case an named "boss general" who specializes on the best china arsenal, but only available on challenge mode.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 22 Apr 2018, 6:44
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QUOTE (ZunZero97 @ 22 Apr 2018, 4:08) *
4 i think in the case an named "boss general" who specializes on the best china arsenal, but only available on challenge mode.




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Neutrino
post 22 Apr 2018, 13:15
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 22 Apr 2018, 2:39) *


I see. But this is a situation where china played way better than eca.
Is there a longer game (>15mins) of china vs russia where russia reaches its best units and still china wins?


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XAttus
post 22 Apr 2018, 20:58
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Well the long game on this link contains a lot of useful things that china can (needs to) do vs ECA. We agreed in draw because we were still in a stalemate at the end and I had little interest to continue + also wanted to break free from my PC and attend to my basic needs xD

http://gentool.net/data/zh/2018_04_April/2...s_KRLFNODAKLLH/

things to look for: bulldog countering, GP countering, using airships to tank (he loved that), avoiding howitzers (I loved that), sec eco management - mainly the quantity needed to stay in game, dealing with pandora (more or less, he still got some ugly hits on me with it)

Yeah... before some of you will point out what could I have done to end the game at X minutes, sure...easy to say - next time I'll click faster.

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Neutrino
post 29 Apr 2018, 21:30
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Possible fishing ignore if too intrusive:
1-Will jin get better gattling weapons?
2-Will he get better hackers?
3-Does Jin get a unique heli besides the prop airship?


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post 30 Apr 2018, 2:48
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QUOTE (Neutrino @ 29 Apr 2018, 22:30) *
Possible fishing ignore if too intrusive:
1-Will jin get better gattling weapons?
2-Will he get better hackers?
3-Does Jin get a unique heli besides the prop airship?


1. No.
2. He has the same Hackers as the other two.
3. No.
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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 30 Apr 2018, 4:01
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Think more sneaky china more-so than china special weapons or china inf from shockwave.


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