Scrapped units to over the top for Rise of the Reds? Options

[Neo3602]

I was wondering if there were any unit concepts for Rise of the Reds that were scrapped because they were deemed to over the top for the Rise of the Reds Universe?

[kezsonaj]

I was wondering if there were any unit concepts for Rise of the Reds that were scrapped because they were deemed to over the top for the Rise of the Reds Universe?

SWR Team has scrapped their Lego Generals Project. You haven't heard?

[Kommandant Karis...]

I don't really know any of the scrapped concepts to begin with, but I remember hearing something about an Odin Protocol that was scrapped for that very reason. Something involving constructable Solaris Prism Towers and a giant airship that fired Solaris beams? Someone correct me if I'm wrong ^^;

though to be honest I kinda wish that idea hadn't been scrapped

[Rymosrac]

Goshawk?

[Oliver]

no, they said goshawk will be in 2.0.. Odin, mastodon and all the new navy?

[MARS]

We don't only scrap things if we later deem them as being over the top, but also revise and change plans over time, if we have some new impulse. Off the top of my head, I could provide the following examples, for trivia purposes:

- ECA Odin Protocol: This was only in our design documents for what must have been a few days at most. It started out as a spontaneous idea, to add a fourth protocol that would give you a so-called Odin airship which would fire a solar beam in a sweeping diagonal pattern, similar to that giant robot head in RA3 Uprising. There was also an idea for a new Prism Tower style defence that would somehow connect directly to your Solar Reactor. In the end, we decided to abandon the entire plan because we felt that it overstretched the whole ECA protocol mechanic by breaking the golden number 3, which applies to many of these kinda things. Not only would this unit seem too much like an airborne artillery (you already get awesome artillery via the Pandora protocol) but the other component would have effectively rendered all your other defences obsolete.

- Russian Mastodon Siege Helicopter: This one did actually make it off the drawing board and into an internal testing version. We based it off an unused concept art that was originally meant for the actual Siege Chopper from Yuris Revenge, where the cannon extended out between the canopy and the blades. This looked fairly unique but at the same time, it did feel just a little -too- bizarre to justify in-universe and it also came with a myriad of technical issues. The whole 'helicopter lands and turns into gun' mechanic was only made possible via two buttons that allowed you to switch altitudes and you would use the lower altitude as a sort of preparation phase before you could actually deploy. This however meant that the helicopter had to fly around buildings and that it was able to land on inaccessible cliffs and even water, all while being very 'loose' in the way it controlled. It also meant that the copter could not be repaired by conventional means and had to be given its own repair ability. I even had the usual render lore description prepared for it, where it was explained that the Mastodon was a Kamov helicopter designed upon request of General Zhokov after Mil's proposal failed to convince him and that it was incredibly maintenance intensive due to using a lot of non-standard parts which is why the crew carried their own maintenance equipment on board.

Some other examples of 'stuff that got scrapped' that you might not know yet:
- One US GP was to call in a swarm of decoy drones that would draw enemy fire, which was first scrapped and then somewhat re-invoked in function with the new Guardian Angel.
- Instead of adding more planes, the A-10 power was supposed to be broken down into one plane using its gun, gun+rockets, and finally gun+rockets+bombs as it gains more levels.
- Instead of the Thorn-exclusive Firebase, the other US generals where at one point supposed to have a non-descript 'Guardian Cannon' which I think was supposed to be a sort of general purpose autocannon emplacement.
- Griffon was supposed to get a 'Hover Sentry' that could switch between ground and air movement.
- A PDL/armour upgrade for all of Thorn's Humvee variants.
- An ECM Bunker for General Jin that was probably just a regular Bunker with an ECM beam or radius.
- An EMP aura upgrade for Mau's Troop Crawlers which was latter repurposed into a 'Disruptor Tank' that was sort of like a mobile TS-style EMP Cannon which later became the actual Disruptor ATGM Team that'll be in 1.85.
- General-specific tech buildings for the GLA, with the current Toxin Lab for Ibrahiim, an Oil Plant for Sulaymaan and a Training Camp for Yusuuf which were also considered to receive some extra bonus type function.
- A Mobile Supply Stash for Yusuuf, which seems rather gimmicky when you can just load a bunch of Workers into a Technical, set up your outpost and even have it connected to your main base via the tunnel.
- Sulaymaan's Mercenaries were not originally African, but they had a Central Asian/Mongol type theme, to invoke the unutilised 'Khan' themes from the old Alpha Generals.
- Orlov was at some point considered to have the BMD as a buildable replacement for his BMP, rather than having it only as part of the VDV drop.
- Zhukov had/has a unit called the Ohotnik which went through countless revisions over time, mainly in regards to its intended function and weaponry.
- All Russian generals were planned to have a MAZ Mobile Supply Center, which later became an Orlov concept before it got scrapped entirely, but somewhat repurposed with the Field Quarters vehicle that is now part of the Infantry Reserves unlock in 1.85.
- Aleksandr had plans for two upgrades: Plasma Stealth, which would make his then still exclusive PAK-FA stealthy and further increase its native ECM style missile block, and Bolter Turrets, which would replace all heavy MG type weapons with rocket machine guns.
- All ECA generals had a Gun Silo defence, which was basically imagined as a concealable pop-up AT turret which was later expanded to become Willem's Bulldog Turret.
- Instead of dogs, the ECA had plans for a generic scout vehicle built at the Region Command, which was imagined as a small, amphibious hovercraft called the Penguin. It even had some early voicework before we scrapped it.
- Wolfgang was planned to have a heavy-duty cargo helicopter for infantry and vehicles.
- Jaeger originally wasn't a character at all, as the ECA hero was only labelled as a generic Resistance Operative, and thus probably interchangeable similar to how we interpret Black Lotus as the name of a unit, not just one person.
- Willem and Wolfgang had plans for a so-called Mars MLRS, which later became an Archer MLRS for only Willem that would shoot its rockets faster the longer it staid on target, before we removed this idea entirely in favour of a different T2 artillery for Willem and Wolfgang.
- Garrison-clearing was supposed to be the FELIN's job, via a Thermal Scope upgrade that would have allowed him to pick off garrison soldiers one by one.
- Wolfgang had an upgrade which would have replaced the manned machine guns on all his vehicles with manned grenade launchers.
- There would have been an upgrade that would have added Panzerfausts to Jumpjet Troopers. In the end, we realised that JJs are T2/Rank 5 infantry to begin with and just gave them general purpose grenade launchers instead of adding another paywall before they achieve full functionality.
- The three protocols gave you only the Manticore, Pandora and Venom, with no extras. Hydrogen Fuel Cells were actually a global upgrade for Wolfgang which would have made all of his vehicles faster and also cheaper.
- All ECA generals had an economy upgrade called Network Nodes, which was somehow going to increase the income from supply gathering whilst increasing the power demand of the structures, which was gimmicky and moot by the time the Solar Reactor became their only powerplant.
- Instead of controllable units, the dogs were meant to be a per-building upgrade, similar to the Chinese mines which would have added detection and an anti-infantry defence to a building.
- Scrapped ECA GP's included one that spawned Icarus mines, an ICE-6 particle dispersal that stunned/debuffed enemy vehicles, a spy plane and a combat air patrol using a 'Gryphon' fighter.

These are not the only ones, but the most notable that I could pick out while looking through an old copy of the documents from what might have been around 2011 or earlier. Perhaps you find some of these interesting or amusing as ROTR trivia

[Knjaz.]

R.I.P. Mastodon, we still miss you (

And no, ability (requirement) to use both low and high altitude modes was awesome and provided a number of options unavailable to any other helicopter
But it's pathfinding was goofy indeed.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 11 Feb 2015, 9:37

[Svea Rike]

Now I imagine the Scrapped Faction, which utilizes all of these and has come to take revenge on the people that left it behind! Vive la Mis a Rebut!

[Shiro]

Of course the Scrapped Faction could never win any battle since none of their units actually function ^^

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Please tell me you'll consider changing the A-10 GP to whats above again.
That change is brilliant. If it behaved like a Eurofighter aswell and wasnt target-able, that would would make my life lol

I also love the idea of all the mobile supply centers. I think they should be seriously be tested out to see if they change the dynamics of the game.

Also, why the change of plan about the GLA's research buildings?
I'm curious.

[Darkfire Angel]

- General-specific tech buildings for the GLA, with the current Toxin Lab for Ibrahiim, an Oil Plant for Sulaymaan and a Training Camp for Yusuuf which were also considered to receive some extra bonus type function.

Of all the scrapped ideas this is for me the one that I'm most disappointed about. As awesome as the GLA is now, the Toxin Lab still feels too generic.

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Of all the scrapped ideas this is for me the one that I'm most disappointed about. As awesome as the GLA is now, the Toxin Lab still feels too generic.

This ^

[Lizvne]

I agree with gentlemen above about tech building.

[The_Hunter]

Things are scrapped for a reason.
Weither you argee with it or not is pretty much irrelevant and they will not be making a return in any shape or form.

[Damfoos]

SWR Team has scrapped their Lego Generals Project. You haven't heard?

OMFG, it is awesome!! Are there any other pictures like that?

[8igDaddy8lake]

- Aleksandr had plans for two upgrades: Plasma Stealth, which would make his then still exclusive PAK-FA stealthy and further increase its native ECM style missile block, and Bolter Turrets, which would replace all heavy MG type weapons with rocket machine guns.

Doesn't the Berkut Evasive Maneuvers ability sort of act like how real (feasible) plasma stealth would work? Plasma stealth would (currently) work best as an aid for breaking missile lock by activating power-intensive plasma ionization and making sharp turns to ensure the lock is broken. I don't know, this was kind of my thinking on how Evasive Maneuvers was able to defeat advanced missile technology.

[Nemanja]

Prepare for "can you reconsider your decisions comments"...

an ICE-6 particle dispersal that stunned/debuffed enemy vehicles, a spy plane and a combat air patrol using a 'Gryphon' fighter.

How Spy plane and Gryphon were supposed to look and work ?

[teslashark]

Prepare for "can you reconsider your decisions comments"...


How Spy plane and Gryphon were supposed to look and work ?

I guess the first one is a map-revealing run via an instant-death structure like the Tear Gas GP. The second one is used in O:FS as a USA Air Force GP - you get untargetable fighters spawned in and they attack enemy aircrafts.

Function-wise, the most over the top thing was the Su-25.

This post has been edited by teslashark: 11 Feb 2015, 18:34

[GeneralCamo]

A few others that I know about:
The Goshawk was originally to contain ICE bombs, functioning similarly to the GP power MARS mentioned, but at a smaller scale.
The Terrorist was originally only part of Yusuuf's faction. From what I understand, it is for all GLA generals again.
Wolfgang originally had a PzH Artillery. It was scrapped for being too similar to the Claymore artillery.
Yusuuf was going to get the old (currently in 1.85) Scorpion tank, while the other generals would get the "cheetah" (internal name) scorpion tank. The "cheetah tank" is now scrapped.
The GLA was originally not going to get any air units. Their T3 Anti-Air was going to be a defensive structure. Scrapped, but elements remain in the Ural Truck (a kind of T2.5 Anti-Air).

This post has been edited by Generalcamo: 11 Feb 2015, 21:08

[The_Hunter]

Wolfgang originally had a PzH Artillery. It was scrapped for being too similar to the Claymore artillery.

This is actually incorrectly mentioned on the wiki.

The PZH function didn't make much sense in his tech tree and evolved into the Claymore for Gen. Charles.

[LayZboy]

Of all the scrapped ideas this is for me the one that I'm most disappointed about. As awesome as the GLA is now, the Toxin Lab still feels too generic.

I wonder if it could be made to act like the ECA Tier 2 place (I forget it's name), where each general has little additions similar to how the protocols work. The Stealth general could get some camo netting on the structure, The Toxin general some barrles of sludge-o and the brute force guy some tank shells and munition things.

[MARS]

We eventually decided against having these different T2 buildings for the GLA because even though the Chemical Lab may not be a tier unlocker for them, it is still similar to the likes of the Strat Center, Industrial Plant, R&D Compound and and Breeder Reactor in that it gives you their T2 upgrades. These kinda structures are all identical for the USA, RUS, ECA and PRC generals and we decided to keep it consistent for the GLA as well in the end. Naturally, the Chemical Lab will still be home to different upgrades for the three generals in 2.0.

More trivia for those interested

- The Rank 1 unlocks were still designed with a very vanilla-esque mindset in that many of them only gave you one new thing. For example, Thorn's SEALs and Pathfinders were still treated as unlockables, as was the Chaparral for Bradley and the Aurora for Griffon. Chen would have had to unlock his ability to fit speakers, bunkers and gattlings onto his Overlords and other vehicles, etc. Whilst we still have such unlock GPs in the game at Rank 1, we have expanded them in the sense that they all give you multiple units and possibly also some upgrade or a modifier that is applied immediately, to make them more worthwhile to tailor a certain tactic, rather than restricting assets that everyone would always -want- when using a certain general out of principle.
- Another USA Rank 1 unlock would have allowed defensive structures to be upgraded with the same drones as their vehicles. Naturally, CIA Intel and Ammo Dump were still planned as powers as well.
- GPS Scramblers for the GLA still functioned like a targeted power and there were also plans for a Terror Attack power which was basically a delayed (for balance) Terrorist ambush, which would have been Ibrahiim's and Sulaymaan's only access to them, whereas Yusuuf could produce them.
- Willem's Bulldog Turret started out as an airdroppable turret that was broken down into one autocannon turret at level 1, autocannon turret and AT turret at level 2 and autocannon, AT and a Starstreak turret at rank 3.
- Wolfgang once had plans for a rather awesome power where level 1 would have allowed you to produce all your tanks with basic, level 2 with advanced and level 3 with full veterancy respectively.

- In a later 2012 iteration, the US were supposed to have an upgrade that replaced the Sentry Drone's machine gun with an automatic grenade launcher, a concept which was later split off in favour of creating a dedicated battle drone that you now know as the Guardian.
- In some aspects, the old ZH mindset of 'improving one thing while taking away another' still crept in. For example, Bradley would have had to make do without Rocket Pods and Countermeasures and Wolfgang would have had no Cluster Munitions.
- The original/working name of the Volunteer Squad was the Assault Wave. Back then, Red Guards also still had their Rifle Grenades upgrade which was present in some older playable versions as well. It was also envisioned that Chen would be the only Chinese general with Nuclear Tanks and Nationalism, while all of them still had the Patriotism upgrade that gave you cheaper infantry, which is now functionally integrated into your Propaganda Center as soon as you have one.
- The mighty Shenlong tank started out as a humble T1 replacement for Mau's Dragon Tank, called the Shen Dragon, which would have probably been just a beefier Dragon Tank rather than the outright monstrosity that it became.
- At that time, there were also plans for a Zhukov upgrade that would have replaced 'all' standard HE bombs and artillery weapons of him with thermobarics, as well as a 25% damage increase for all thermobarics.
- Amusingly, at the same time as the US had their now-removed Guardian Turret, Aleksandr was planned to have a non-descript Guardian Air Defence. Now, they are both gone, but Aleksandr does actually retain the concept for a special Kashtan replacement to this day.
- The F-117 was planned to be visually updated based on an unrealised RL concept for an improved/navalised version, but it didn't turn out right during initial modelling attempts, so the plan was abandoned.
- The three level Emergency Repair power, as it is currently in game, was still planned as such. Nowadays, we are actually planning on merging it into a single level power for all factions.
- The working name for what you now know as the American Starlifter was the Sky Crane.

[Svea Rike]

Like the real life Sky Crane? Who in their right minds would choose "Sky Crane" over STARLIFTER!

[The_Hunter]

^ it was a working title anyway.

[Svea Rike]

Sorry. But why ever even consider "Sky Crane" when STARLIFTER is already right there in another one of your mods?