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Posted by: accomplice 2 Jul 2009, 18:06

Update: 5.7.2009 Releasing crappy beta version!
Some camera sequences are just plain fail, and after you win, it crashes (at least you don't lose now after winning ><)Well, at least you can play everything that's supposed to be played in this mish :x

Couple of things to notice:

• Vehicles have a different maneuverability in water.
  That means:
  
  • There is no collision check!! Means that your units will drive into each other when you command several to go to one spot.
    In some situations, you will have to move a couple of single units each one individually or split them into many small groups.
  • They move slower in general. US hover units are generally faster than your GLA swimming vehicles.
  • When you want them to turn around, they have to drive a 180 º semicircle first, which takes some time.
  • There is some inertia. That means when you order a moving unit to attack something, it will take a bit before it complete stops and is able to shoot at full speed. In some situations that will lose you valuable seconds. Try using the stop command to get them shooting full speed sooner.
• Supply gatherers are bugged. When you send them to supplies, they will end up standing in front of your supply stash with a box in their hands, but not delivering. You have to click each guy and send them to the supply stash individually after they have picked up a box. No idea why this fails, I guess it's because there is little room on the island with the supplies
• Expect cinematic sequences in the midgame to rip you away from your unit control for seconds, leaving them on their own during the show interlude. Very unpleasant when they were just under enemy fire. Some sequences feature time freezes, so no worry there, but in other situations, freezing was not very fitting.
• Think tactical. Use all mean tricks you can get hold of. Get your vehicles salvaged as much as possible, the additional firepower is considerable.
• There might be the one or other easteregg in there. It's really not many. And one of them is about impossible to find

-----[Original post]-----
I always wanted the amphibious vehicles in ShW more involved in water action. So I tried to make a mission that takes place on the water 80% of the time. Currently the mission itself is 95% finished. I'm just trying to get some working intro and outro sequence. I just totally hate coding camera stuff in Worldbuilder

You're playing a mix of the GLA generals, mainly using Deathstrike units, but also stealth and demo stuff.

Some pics:

Minimap
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=00_minimap889.jpg

You start with 3 rebels 3 BRDMs
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=01_start174.jpg

First part of the mission is mostly about liberating GLA holes from enemy guards
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=02_liberatewf184.jpg http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=03_liberaterax102.jpg

...and capturing tech stuff, shooting krait missiles, salvaging...
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=04_clrbunker419.jpg http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=05_phosphormissile350.jpg

Also meeting some chinese
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=06__chinese616.jpg http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=07_morechinese925.jpg

At some point you get to collect moneys to build more stuff
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=08_volcano253.jpg

...in order to assault a US base
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09274&f=beachlanding671.jpg

I hope I can get everything fixed by tomorrow. CPU enemies work okay now, and there should not be any logical runtime flaws left.

And please keep in mind, I'm a mapping noob, so don't expect DA BOMB texturing or cinematics ;P

Here goes! Date: 5.7.2009
Download, save to ...\My documents\C&C Zero hour data\Maps\, extract, ingame go to skirmish -> inofficial maps, find map, play.
 Shw_GLA_Island_Hopping.zip ( 169.75K ) : 49

Posted by: Shock 2 Jul 2009, 18:24

I hope you haven't made it too easy. Doesn't look like you are likable to lose any of your units when playing it.

Posted by: katmoda12 2 Jul 2009, 19:09

Now that's sound really interesting.

I'm looking forward to try it.

it seems very tactical.

Posted by: accomplice 2 Jul 2009, 20:01

Hehe at one stage, it was rather a mutual unit spam fest. Another thing that bugs me is the default unit behaviour. They seem to be on guard mode, ground units come running from far far away and then get stuck at the shore and get focussed on just one unit that's out of range, while other nearby units can kill it without counter-fire. I will consider reinforcing some AI teams

Posted by: Pickysaurus 2 Jul 2009, 23:08

Is there a download available yet?
I really want to play it

Posted by: accomplice 2 Jul 2009, 23:13

Currently still balancing some AI unit combos. Don't want Shock to have it too easy ;D

Posted by: Pickysaurus 2 Jul 2009, 23:14

Fair enough, maybe throw in some US airborne drop/attacks like the AF Gen Challenge

Can't wait for it to be ready ^.^

Posted by: accomplice 3 Jul 2009, 0:01

Hm on this map, parachute drops will land in the water and drown to death >:þ

One last play through and I'll either go sit in a corner and cry out of hate for WB, or upload it

Posted by: katmoda12 3 Jul 2009, 2:31

After seeing your screenshot I truly can't wait myself to play it.

For what i've seen you've done quite a godd job with that

Posted by: Pal 3 Jul 2009, 3:00

once again another awesome mission..

Posted by: Pickysaurus 3 Jul 2009, 23:06

How's it coming accomplice?

Posted by: accomplice 4 Jul 2009, 1:31

Um, currently the AI is a bit too hard (sending too many high tech units against your GLA basic units) and when you win, you lose. Fixing it atm ><

And crappy camera works in the outro (can see when original units are removed and replaced with cine units. need to time black outs better)

[edit]Figured out the reason. But it's a bit much to code, I'll have to bring it tomorrow, sorry

Posted by: Pickysaurus 4 Jul 2009, 1:54

Lol i can imagine that. You just beat the AI after a real hard battle "You have been defeated"
"WTF!" *throws PC*

Posted by: silence 4 Jul 2009, 7:12

Looks good, keep it up. I will look forward to your release.

Posted by: KamuiK 4 Jul 2009, 8:45

I may say you have my gratitude, this fanmap looks very well done for now. I can hardly wait to try it out. Anyway, is it for ShW 0.95 or 0.951?

Posted by: Suvorov 4 Jul 2009, 23:13

This map looks truly epic, regardless of the texturing! Keep up the good work!

Posted by: accomplice 5 Jul 2009, 2:33

Okay, after dozens of times of playing through that darn thing, I think I have at least eliminated all logic flaws.

There shouldn't be units perma stuck somewhere and keeping the mission from going to the next step etc.

Anyways, it's still got a couple of unlovely flaws, either it's the cinematic sequences or some unit behaviour etc.

I've attached the map at the very end of the first post. Try it out

One more screenie: Show's that distracting base defenses with scarab smoke grenades can keep your units alive.
http://xs.to/xs.php?h=xs141&d=09276&f=smoke954.jpg

Actually the shaky story line of this mission could allow at least 1 prequel mission, where the player kills a GLA soyuz missile along with 2 AI USA generals, and afterward a mission about freeing the captured guys

Posted by: Zhao 5 Jul 2009, 3:41

before you say its hard leave it to the dev Beta testers to find it out

Posted by: katmoda12 5 Jul 2009, 4:20

I've tried your mission accomplice, i found it very enjoyable. It's not impossible,quite hard i'd say but if a beta tester want to have it hard should complete it giving himself secondary fictional objective like utilizing just deathstrike units without additional help,or not spend any generals point.

About the mission is really well done, i couldn't wait to play it and i think my patience has been rewarded. Can't wait to see the prequel mission.
I don't like the fact of utilizing not-deathstrike units because of the taste of uniqueness of this generals, but is really well done.

Thank you very much.

Posted by: accomplice 5 Jul 2009, 11:41

Thanks for your feedback, glad you liked it.

As for non-deathstrike units, they only vehicle that's not from DS is the artillery boat, and it's rather vital in this sort of setting I think Wasting just techies and toxies on base defenses and tanks would become a bit boring in the end
And well, the infantry is all from the stealth general (except for DS jarmen, so you can put him into a buggy). The main reason is that the rebel molotovs make the beginning a bit easier when you have just the 3 techies defending against robot tanks. And I just love stinger rpgs The reason for the mobile supply stash was mostly its size and because it cannot reproduce workers.

Posted by: katmoda12 5 Jul 2009, 12:22

Surely you got your motives to do so..

And i fine with that. i'll consider this mission like adeathstrike mission with some coordinated help from the other two general.

I'll have now another playtrhrough to see if i can catch all the easter egg .( in your other mission i've found all the 3 snowman and the fourth flaming snowman)

I can't wait for your next creation, if you are planning to do so.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 5 Jul 2009, 20:47

Just had a stab at this accomplice. I've gotta say it isn't easy T.T

The US tanks can own almost anything and they can cross the water. Where the GLA Tanks are stuck on patches of land.

I got bored before I made the final assault, purely because the US forces seemed to counter me whatever I did. I could only build enough units to keep replacing the ones lost.

That US base if heavily fortified and I kept getting caught out by the pop-up turrets.

Posted by: accomplice 5 Jul 2009, 21:18

Hint: Fully Salvaged BRDM2s and BRDM1s will eat those tanks alive

The BRdM2 should have its big rocket pods up, then it can easily take on hover crusaders 1 on 1, while the long range brdm1 back them up from the rear.
You should not rely on scarabs and quads too early on. Try having 2 groups of 3 brdm2s and another 2 groups of 3 brdm1s.
If you see shatterers, have the long range boats deal with them. Robot tanks get easily owned by the short range boats, and helis die even faster to them
Kraits are only useful in the beginning against the bunkers and for some support damage from their missiles.

One group each for the outer islands to the mainbase. And well, you will be getting some extra help in form of special atks from offmap.
Do garrison buildings at key positions with stinger rpgs, they help alot. Have a tunnel nearby for smoke grenade scarabs, and a quad to deal with helis and drones.

As for popup turrets, just send all your rocket boats on them, 6 vs 1 these things die pretty fast

My recommended steps when the final objective appears is:
- occupy the south-western outer island first. Clear that fire base and patriot with your artillery boats, garrison the industrial building with rpgs, man the mg bunker, have a quad and a worker nearby. And have some long range boats in the water near the bridge.
- Next, send another group of artillery boats to the north eastern outer island to kill off the defenses and the tower there, occupy the radio station for a little show
- Then flank the US base from the small southern shore, taking out the barracks and maybe even the warfactory there, and when you're there already, also the heli tower
- If you can, tunnel right next to the radio station inside the us base and send in an infantryman right away (the beach fortifications shout have been cleaned by the second step by now ) and follow up with scarabs and quads from the tunnel. Make sure the tankdestroyer at the beach bunker is either sniped out or destroyed. Have one group of brdm1s come up the upper bridge to take out that firebase on the hill, rest should be easy

[edit]I might make a walkthrough with pictures later as a pdf file or so

Posted by: KamuiK 5 Jul 2009, 22:26

I have some nice tips for you (might be bugs you want to solve):
-before you get a Jarmen from the island later, buy a Jarmen before you do so - doubles the fun.
-at the point where you have to defend the air pad or the palace, you should buy Kraits to defend them, the robot tanks and tigersharks die easily to them, have some boats to backup the kraits, with a good level of cashbounty you can make 10,000s of dollars and get high level salvaged units easy.
-if you can or have to do so, salvage upgrade your units in the water while several ones are on top of each other - saves money in the beginning.
And one thing, please remove some of the pop-up turrets from the beach, 2 of them have killed most of my forces alone and I have no idea why. Also, could you please make the Crusader unamphibious or the Scarab amphibious?
Else I really enjoyed this map.

Posted by: accomplice 5 Jul 2009, 23:26

Hm, yes, I might just as well leave the jarmen button away for good. Not like you can snipe robot tanks anyways

Are you sure? Robot tanks are immune to krait toxins, and you'd have to stack quite a lot of phosphor rockets to get them killed somewhat fast, while kraits, just as normal toxies, are supposed to die to tank shells fast (i.e. to robot tanks and tigersharks). Anyways, I will reconsider the issue with the cash bounty. Maybe make lvl 3 cash bounty unavaible and don't grant stage 1 of it right away And take away 1 supply stash. Keel moar for moneyz!


Geez, psssht. I have no way to fix the collision check, that's what the dev team can maybe change


I assume you mean those two that were next to 2 avengers huh. I assume the avengers blocked most of your missiles... But then again, I could imagine that a group of 4 brdm2 assisted by some brdm1 supported by emergency repairs can still take that down, but okay, I'll replace one turret by a pill box


I'd rather not let go of the extra fun of hover crusaders. I could make the crusader teams smaller (2 at a time rather than 3 - sounds good?)
As for scarabs, they cannot go amphibious, if at all, that's something the devs have to code. But then again, they'd be too strong for an amphi vehicle after all, with their sweet upgrades

Thanks for your hints, I'll include some points.

Btw, did anyone who played the whole thing get the crash-like lag between victory panel and score board?

Posted by: KamuiK 5 Jul 2009, 23:42

Well your decision, but if I were you I would not remove Lvl3, only make Lvl1 non-granted.

Please do so.

Please do so.

Well no, you could just make Jarmen spawn at the palace when it is recovered. Anyway, are they 2 different Jarmen Kells? Because if you start defending the palace, you can already buy a Jarmen at the barracks even if it is not recovered yet.

Posted by: accomplice 5 Jul 2009, 23:49

My bet was to keep the player poor enough till that stage so that he would rather spend money in vehicles than spending a humongous 1.5k creds on a single unit that can't even swim to till that point.
Sadly, there is no option in worldbuilder to completely grey out (disable) a construction button. Either remove it for good or add it. I'll probably just add the jarmen button after you find the palace, else you can indeed theoretically have 2 jarmens in buggies, lol

Posted by: Pickysaurus 5 Jul 2009, 23:52

Yes, I got to the end..
"You are Victorious!" Message, no cheer sound... just sorta hung there. Open task manager, general.dat is not responding = crash.

Also could you stop the anti-building units (i can't remember their names) from attacking the workers?
If I look away from them for one second they get hit by one or a robot tank runs them down. They're meant to be stealthed ffs!

Btw, the Easter Egg, I think I found it... is it right at the top of the US base by any chance?

Posted by: KamuiK 5 Jul 2009, 23:57

I did not see that. After reading, I checked your mission map and found out you did not use an ini file to change any stats in the mission unlike I assumed first. If you have anything you want to change but you cannot do, ask me please.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 6 Jul 2009, 0:30

As a side note, will you be making the prequel?

Posted by: katmoda12 6 Jul 2009, 0:42

I'd like to to see your idea again at work.
it sholud be really fun a prequel mission.

Posted by: accomplice 6 Jul 2009, 2:20

I'll think about it. I have the idea of the player being vUSA and having to rely heavily on exo suits, while he has two allies, maybe USAF and laser, who throw in comments from the challenge speech files every now and then.

And on top of the hill sits general deathstrike with some minions to his left and right, maybe one stealth and one tox... And of course none of the players has a full tech tree, but sends out signature units most of the time...

@ current mish: yes, cheer sound at the end is one more thing to add, and no, the easter eggs are right at the mission start and somewhere in the middle hehe
Up in the US base corner is just that little area that I used for the crappy intro scene

Posted by: Pickysaurus 6 Jul 2009, 13:08

Oh right, how comes there's a Bradley there?
The US doesn't use bradleys in the mission but there is one right at the top

Posted by: accomplice 6 Jul 2009, 21:04

Bleh that was supposed to be a support team coming from offmap. But these guys seem to love getting stuck just at the border >>

Posted by: Zhao 10 Jul 2009, 5:12

then use teh COde to warp em in , Works everytime

Posted by: Pal 14 Jul 2009, 14:18

any news on the improved version?