Rise of the Reds Update: Built to Last Options

[Nemanja]

Yup. That's the one =)
(have a few things to fix on it though)

Map looks very good from high altitude,
and plus have something like new type of Skrimish.
You guys have really cheered me up with this,and I hope that I'm not the only one

[aeroth]

Thank you for the prompt answers provided on all topics. I must say you are an open minded fellow with one can have a normal discusion (rare thing on the internet)

Do the ECA afther all will become European continental ALLIANCE ?
Do eca has long range sight scout units ? I heard they have op artilery, but artilery is useless witouth view

[MARS]

Yes, ECA now officially stands for two things at the same time:
European Continental Alliance = The political organisation in which the various member nations are organised
European Continental Army = The joint command frame work of their military task force

Two things about these terms: In RL, many pro-EU people regard the next step in the development of the EU to be its constitution into a federation. International law defines a federation as a sovereign state with a centralised government that consists of a number of unified, only partially self-governing smaller states. In that sense, countries like the US, Russia or Germany are actually federations or 'federal states'. The obvious problem with introducing such a system to the EU as a whole is the fact that unlike the US, Russia or Germany, which are also actual nation states with a common, historically defined identity, a 'European Federation' would consist of almost 30 former nation states, all of which would sacrifice the bigger part of their sovereignty in the process of a centralisation. And as history has often shown, forcing people of different nations to live under one centralised rule rarely works out. An alliance on the other hand is a lot more loosely defined: In this case, it's a shared partnership between nation states that signed treaties on a handful of shares principles, but they are NOT working towards the goal of putting all the nations of Europe under one centralised leadership, one set of laws etc. In a way, the 'project ECA' was pretty much completed the moment the various members signed the treaties, unlike the EU which has been and will probably continue to be an ongoing process of integration that goes over decades; until it eventually fails, that is.

Secondly, the term 'army' is generally associated with ground forces but one military that actually uses it as a collective term for the ENTIRE armed forces, including ground, naval and air forces, is China, with its People's Liberation -Army-. The three branches are actually called PLA Ground Force, PLA Navy and PLA Air Force. Since the Europeans worked in close cooperation with China during the aftermath of Zero Hour, this naming scheme may be one of the things they decided to pick up as well. Thus, the ECA as a multinational European task force also has its own air, naval and ground branches while working under the collective term 'Army'. And yes, the various national militaries still exist. The dynamic between them and the ECA will be addressed in a future update, as will the basic idea and history behind the Alliance and how it was founded after ZH.

God, I love talking trivia...

Anyway, yes, they have very long range howitzers and they get some scout units that will provide them with proper visibility, so you don't have to fire blindly into the fog.

[Anubis]

Well i'm telling you this as an romanian. WE HATE RUSSIA
The reason we can't take back Moldova is because of Transnistria and Russia, Russia in 1940 stole Basarabia and Bucovina from us, and in ww 1 they left us alone on the eastern front because of they're revolution. More then that in the last ruso-turco war the russian tsar break promise made to us and stole a piece of our country even if we are the ones that did all the hard battles of that war.
Romania will never never never ally itself with russia no matter what happens. The reason we joined nato is to get rid of russia.

The reason why our current president won last elections is because he sayd the other candidate is pro-russian. (we did not was pro russian but in the minds of romanians russia is the boogy man)

Are you kidding me. Romania hasnt been pro-french since the days if the kings. All we are is american whores. As in we do and they command. Thats pretty much the only so called alliance we have atm. Western europe is so pissed of us it's not even funny. Also the fact that russia for us is the boogy man shows just how stupid and retarded we are. Communism is dead, and capitalism is just another form of it, where control is alot more subliminal. What we do not realize is that we are fuking with the people who provide pretty much all our oil and gas resources - hence why romania has higher prices for these than most of western europe.

On topic - will ECA have any defense structure with a higher range than light arty units ( usch as missile buggies ) but ofc not as high as the hvy arty units ?

This post has been edited by Anubis: 24 May 2012, 21:53

[General Tatarin]

The garrison clearing rules ?

Then why only one bunker ( one type of bunker) is immune to all garrison clearing weapons? Why other bunkers (civilian) are not immune to such a weapons. I think Royal Guard general will have an exlusive, exceptional ability comparing to other factions. I mean, maybe this faction will take more resistance (will be more immune) to garrison clearing weapons than other factions, even if the troops are garrisoned not in presented bunkers but also in civilian buildings.

[GeneralCamo]

Hmm. Will that structure with a helipad be able to repair helicopters? Or is that a no?

[aeroth]

You want to turn this in a politics discution anubis? Romania is pro-French (the french supported us coming in the EU)
Romania is not pro american only basescu (the president) is ! You and I and most of romanians we don't like the americans, i agree.
We are pro-french, look at out elite (teachers,miliry officens and all intelectuality) all are pro EU.
And russia is far from democracy !! We all knew who the president was going to be before the elections
Russia is just reinforcing it's 6'th army in Transnistria. (This is a way to tell us, back down with you're moldova requests) Russia may have a semi-capitalist market but the comunism is far from gone.

And pls don't argue with me more on this, it's not the place and i am an student at political science (last year) it's kinda my job to know these things.

Sanatate prietene

p.s. how much of the israel's wall build to keep the palestinian out influenced on the european wall ?

This post has been edited by aeroth: 24 May 2012, 22:03

[Comr4de]

Then why only one bunker ( one type of bunker) is immune to all garrison clearing weapons? Why other bunkers (civilian) are not immune to such a weapons. I think Royal Guard general will have an exlusive, exceptional ability comparing to other factions. I mean, maybe this faction will take more resistance (will be more immune) to garrison clearing weapons than other factions, even if the troops are garrisoned not in presented bunkers but also in civilian buildings.

Because the Tech Fortresses would be completely useless if you could clear them, doing it otherwise to the other civilian sturctures would be kinda making defensive maps as that almost impossible to penetrate without proper mass concentration of fire -- it changes balance too much and it was in our decision to only make the tech fortresses do that instead. Note that only the Tech War Fortress and Tech Blockade Fortress are the only ones that have that immunity. They were meant to hold out against all odds and literally be a giant obstacle in a players path - not have multiple amounts of them - that'd be ridiculous D:

Do remember that these neutral structures are European but they are not ECA structures the player can build, thus they don't confer to having those abilities. ECA Fortifications (which we've released the renders of) are cheap, fast to build and garrison infantry with ease but are not completely impenetrable - which is why you have so bloody many of them and other defensive structures beating the crap out of just about anything that comes close. There is ONE ECA structure that is CLOSE to being a Tech Fortress though but that will be revealed in time just know that other ECA garrisonable buildings can still be cleared.

On topic - will ECA have any defense structure with a higher range than light arty units ( usch as missile buggies ) but ofc not as high as the hvy arty units ?

Yes. Yes and more Yes. (Even heavy - note these are like 1 - 2 units that do that, more on that later and before someone goes on text-book material about balance that we already know - just wait and see.)


Be afraid.

[Commander-GDI]

I'm not saying that sounds op

but very long range artillery (especially in mass) + AA tends to be op, so I m curious how it will turn out

[Warpath]

Is there any way to clear a Tech Fortress aside from blasting it to pieces?

[Janenator]

Good job! The newest additions look really good; I'm impressed by the amount of effort that has been put into this mod, each day I wait is rewarded with such great updates! It's also great to hear about the Dutch ECA general, as I'm a big fan of defense networks (and owing to some Dutch heritage, I'm glad to see that the much-overlooked nation has made its way into the realm of C&C).
My only question (which concerns the backstory, not really the game itself) is what does the situation in former Yugoslavia look like? I see you've mentioned that a militaristic government takes over in Serbia and the West looks the other way (which reminds me of '91), and I see that (unfortunately) my home country of Bosnia has disappeared from the map at the top, conquered by Serbia. However, neighboring Croatia, which also had previous conflicts with Serbia, appears to remain intact: Is there any reason for this? Their terrain is much harder to defend than that of Bosnia. That is to say, while Bosnia has many mountains and forests that proved invaluable for guerrilla warfare during the Second World War, a large section of Croatia is a thin strip along the coast, which I imagine would be easy to cut off. Are they receiving any kind of support from anyone, or on they on peaceful terms with Serbia?

Once again, great work on the mod so far, my friends and I eagerly await the next release!

[Nemanja]

We don't have to kill each others anymore,
what happened in 90s is disgrace . . .

[aeroth]

We don't have to kill each others anymore,
what happened in 90s is disgrace . . .

I don't know what to say about that... I was in Bosnia last year for a footbal game (Bosnia - Romania) and i saw even in the footbal games the supporters stayed in different areas by ethinicity. The bosniaks were in one part of the stadium,the serbs in another part and the croats in another part. That for me was a sign that the hate is far from gone.

[Nemanja]

I don't know what to say about that... I was in Bosnia last year for a footbal game (Bosnia - Romania) and i saw even in the footbal games the supporters stayed in different areas by ethinicity. The bosniaks were in one part of the stadium,the serbs in another part and the croats in another part. That for me was a sign that the hate is far from gone.

Well that is awful truth . . .
I simply can't look at people that way I had Muslim,Croat,and even Albanian friends,
and guess what,they are human beings like I am,I personally can't judge someone by ethnicity,but also I can't leave someone keep insulting
me because of my own . . .

[Alex1guy]

This conversation is getting quite political :/ Perhaps we should move on?

[GeneralCamo]

Being a chief manufacturer of guns, I can see turkey is in the middle of this. Which side is it on?

[MARS]

On topic - will ECA have any defense structure with a higher range than light arty units ( usch as missile buggies ) but ofc not as high as the hvy arty units ?

Their howitzer emplacements actually outrange -any- kind of conventional artillery short of a Topol and one other special unit.

Hmm. Will that structure with a helipad be able to repair helicopters? Or is that a no?

Nope, those things are purely cosmetical.

p.s. how much of the israel's wall build to keep the palestinian out influenced on the european wall ?

As far as I know, the Israeli 'border wall' actually consists mostly of a fence. They only built a literal wall in critical areas and places that had an especially advantageous line of fire into Israeli territory. With the ECA, it's supposed to be a literal concrete wall, complete with towers and checkpoints. They aren't making -any- GDR style attempts at keeping their own people in and it's -not- standard-policy to shoot anyone that tries to get in though. This wall is about keeping pretty much everyone else (except for temporary visitors and trained specialists) out and represents one of the darker elements we added to the ECA backstory to give them their share of moral greyness as well.

My only question (which concerns the backstory, not really the game itself) is what does the situation in former Yugoslavia look like? I see you've mentioned that a militaristic government takes over in Serbia and the West looks the other way (which reminds me of '91), and I see that (unfortunately) my home country of Bosnia has disappeared from the map at the top, conquered by Serbia. However, neighboring Croatia, which also had previous conflicts with Serbia, appears to remain intact: Is there any reason for this? Their terrain is much harder to defend than that of Bosnia. That is to say, while Bosnia has many mountains and forests that proved invaluable for guerrilla warfare during the Second World War, a large section of Croatia is a thin strip along the coast, which I imagine would be easy to cut off. Are they receiving any kind of support from anyone, or on they on peaceful terms with Serbia?

For one, this whole Serbian thing was obviously added to spice up the map/backstory a bit and provide some detail on places that aren't directly involved in the actual game and generally don't get much coverage in this kind of fiction (just like we did for the Baltic nations, Romania, Bulgaria, China's GAPA etc). The idea of Serbian radicals taking advantage of the situation in order to expand the country's borders was also added in order to acknowledge that a populist move like the swift removal of the EU would have dramatic, unpredictable effects on some regions. Not acknowledging this issue would have turned the ECA into too much of a Euro-skeptic's wish fulfilment, so we had to add a negative side to it which, in this case, would be another 'Yugoslav War'. Like the Korean War in the China update, we won't go into any further detail as to what happens down there in future updates because at the end of the day, it's still just a 'side-show', but let's just say there is no ethnic genocide this time (partly due to the Russian President not tolerating war criminals in his alliance), but obviously thousands of people who are now displaced and cannot seek asylum in Europe. As for Croatia, I'd say they were left alone because Serbia didn't want to push its luck too far, wanting it as an isolated buffer between itself and Italy/Austria.

This conversation is getting quite political :/ Perhaps we should move on?

Right, although political discussions are in no way outlawed on this forum, but now that we've discussed some of the political aspects of our story universe, I suppose we can indeed move on because this kind of subject, while interesting, also gets very extensive after a while.

Being a chief manufacturer of guns, I can see turkey is in the middle of this. Which side is it on?

Neutral, possibly trying to sell its weapons to anyone. The Europeans have pretty much locked the door in front of them, the middle east is a mess and they probably wouldn't enter an alliance with the Russians. This update actually mentions an American Guantanamo-style prison at the Turkish Black Sea coast, so chances are Turkey acts as a covert strategic 'foothold' of the US, which may have been re-established when the Americans lifted their isolation after the creation of the in-universe North American Union. After all, their strategic position between Europe and the middle east is what got them into NATO in the first place.

[Zeke]

Can bunker busters clear the tech fortress? IIRC no bunker can escape the wrath of bunkah bustahs!

[Comr4de]

Can bunker busters clear the tech fortress? IIRC no bunker can escape the wrath of bunkah bustahs!

Nope.

[Massey]

Nope.

What about RPG Conscript smel rockets, Chinese Drangon tank and so on... do they work?

[The_Hunter]

^Same awser.

[aeroth]

What is the character of the european generals ??

I suppose that the russians will be mercyless cold-hearted, american's gunslinger cowbow's, china's political indoctrinated and gla fanatical terorists. What about eca ?

(and please correct me if i got somebody wrong)

[MARS]

Actually...The generals are -all- different, even among their parent factions. That means that not all Americans in ROTR are cowboys, etc. I can probably list some personality traits about the ones that have already been revealed:

Thorn: Cunning, methodical strategic thinker
Bradley: Gun-ho tough-as-nails Marine
Charles: Sociable, down to earth, careful
Willem: Quiet, level-headed, soft-spoken
Wolfgang: Morally upright, disciplined, but somewhat reckless and daring
Orlov: Stern but fair and reasonable, conscientous, dutiful and vigourous
Zhukov: Old and mostly bitter with occasional moments of warmth
Aleksandr: Brilliant in regards to technology and strategy, but borderline sociopathic (<- i.e. what you suggested for 'all' the Russians)
Jin: Zealous, uptight and unforgiving; Chinese Judge Dredd, basically

We are also going to update the MTGs for the generals that have already been revealed, much like we did recently with Orlov and Willem. You can expect information on the personalities of the other generals in the future.

[General Tatarin]

What about RPG Conscript smel rockets, Chinese Drangon tank and so on... do they work?

Maybe WW2 granades will work for clearing garrison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=playe...YCKHF6e4#t=189s

This post has been edited by General Tatarin: 25 May 2012, 10:24

[aeroth]

this is how you clear garrison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3pqSYAuy-A


"they will glow like the sun"

This post has been edited by aeroth: 25 May 2012, 10:41