Hero improvements, Can we hope for more customization for Jarmen Kell and Black Lotus? Options

The best part about shockwave is the overall custom units and play style on each general. So as the representative unit of each faction should also be unique. It's great that the heroes now have an upgrade to give them a new ability and that Colonel Burton is unique in each general's hand, but that leaves Jarmen Kell and Black Lotus hiding in the corner (ignoring demolition and nuke). It doesn't need to be too special so it won't imply too much effort, but it needs to feel unique and appropriate to it's owner. Please bring your own ideas and opinion about the ones posted as I have some of my own.

Stealth general as a master of the hidden arts can have Jarmen Kell go into stealth faster than normal after attacking. Or he could 'deploy' in a special stance in which he could attack while not losing he's stealth, but sacrificing a fast retreat by having to undeploy. He, of course, should be able to choose between attacks.

Toxin could have something like a toxin barrel that he could drop when ability is charged. Or a nerve gas bomb or nerve gas bullets with which he could attack vehicles with. Or a corrosive bullet that will kill the tank over time.

Salvage could have Jarmen upgrade his rifle by collecting scrap and to be able to attack tanks like Armor Colonel Burton.

Special weapons Lotus might leave napalm or earth shaker bombs to burn or disable an area.

Infantry Lotus could boost morale of nearby troops and have a propaganda effect.

Tank Lotus might have a separate tank drop or the ability to disable tanks faster keep them disabled more or affect more simultaneous (rechargeable ability).

Vanilla factions could use a special ability too, but I don't have any ideas at the moment. Having unique heroes is awesome. A friend of mine would be glad if they only had a special avatar especially his favorite, special weapons.


On another matter Black Lotus could use some overall improvements because I'm not the only one that thinks she is the weakest of heroes. She lacks versatility, she is only useful in an unguarded base or if you've breached the enemy's defenses and infiltrated. But let's face it, if you've managed to do that you already won or have plenty of time to use Red Guards and capture the base if so you desire. Colonel Burton is hands down the most versatile hero, good on the field and in an unguarded base and good for ambushes. Jarmen Kell is the best one for GLA guerrilla tactic and it's cool that he can shoot down helicopters and bring down power; he should also be able to execute these new abilities on the motorcycle (it's also cool that you don't lose the motorcycle when unmounting) and maybe to be able to cut down power to defenses. Although being able to call down an airstrike makes her a bit more valuable on the field it could use more improvement.
More bonuses with promotion would be a good enhancement. To capture a bit faster, from a larger distance; disable vehicle faster, from larger distance or for longer durations; steal more cash, faster or from larger distance. The cash hack and virus building could use some modifications regardless of rank. The cash hack would be of more use if she could continually hack the stash without having to repeat the process over and over. She would more than make her money if I could be able to forget about her on an enemy's stash until she's killed. The virus building should work like the disable vehicle or what's the point? I could just capture it instead. It's cool that she get's promoted easier, but currently lacks any real bonus or is worth the effort, unlike Burton. I don't think she gets experience from destroying anything with an airstrike though.

It would be great if at least some of these ideas would be implemented.
Any takes?

[Casojin]

I disagree that Black Lotus is weak. Black Lotus can turn the tide. She can be a scout, infiltrator, support unit, and detector. If I see enemy hero coming, Black Lotus is the one with highest priority to neutralize.

And what's wrong with building a listening van? It's cheaper. A hero that can scout... Just go with the Americans and invest in the spy drone. You can't compare the things you can do with Colonel Burton or Jarmen Kell. Plus the things I had suggested doesn't change her style, only makes her worth while leveling and to give each a special feature to ad a little flair when playing with her with different generals. If nobody likes the idea at least place a mustache or pink hair in her avatar so each feels unique.

[Zeke]

the listening outpost isn't stealth while moving, can't capture buildings, can't disable vehicles, can't steal money or launch a random generals power at the enemy.

And in terms of capturing buildings, Black Lotus can capture buildings much faster than a Redguard.

She doesn't dish out much damage, but she's just as much as a headache as the other heroes.

EDIT: regarding your ideers, I like most of them except the inf gen one. You can't really have a propaganda effect AND stay hidden can you?

This post has been edited by Zeke: 18 Dec 2010, 12:21

[Alias]

In a high-level game, Black Lotus is probably the most useful of the three, perhaps below Armour Burton.

In a high-level game, Black Lotus is probably the most useful of the three

Debatable. I'd prefer Demo Jarmen Kell, he's my favorite. I'm not saying that she's useless just lacking the others versatility. As I said before changes to be proposed should not chance her style just add a little spice and improve performance with level. But please add your own ideas in the discussion.

You can't really have a propaganda effect AND stay hidden can you?

Actually I have seen this done in the Westwood mod. The infantry Listening Outpost had propaganda to nearby units, but not itself, and was stealth while while standing.

This post has been edited by DragonHawk: 18 Dec 2010, 13:00

[Chyros]

And what's wrong with building a listening van? It's cheaper. A hero that can scout... Just go with the Americans and invest in the spy drone. You can't compare the things you can do with Colonel Burton or Jarmen Kell. Plus the things I had suggested doesn't change her style, only makes her worth while leveling and to give each a special feature to ad a little flair when playing with her with different generals. If nobody likes the idea at least place a mustache or pink hair in her avatar so each feels unique.

Black Lotus is invaluable. If you think she's weak or useless, you're using her wrong. Especially when she has veterancy you can turn her into a maddening pest.

The best three individual heroes are probably Demo Kell, Armor Burton and Super Lotus.

Please stop having the impression I think she's useless. I don't think she is useless. I actually owe her a great deal by capturing a superweapon general's base and getting myself 5 particles and I have other examples. Having her steal 1100-1250-1500$ or 1250-1500-2000$ or having the disable vehicle last two seconds longer at elite or capturing buildings a second or half a second faster at elite make her overpowered? It makes you feel the difference when promoted and makes you handle her with more care. Look at the growing damage output of Colonel Burton gets with level. And what does he have to do to earn level 3? Blow up a building? Garrison a structure and kill 3-4 tanks? It's not like you can promote Lotus so easily; do you get promoted from capturing a building? It takes as much time to plant a bomb with Burton. Yes selling buildings and actually stealing cash can really help out, or if the structure isn't immediately destroyed you can try producing units from it... if they don't die immediately too. I acknowledge the fact that the airstrike recharges a bit faster and that it get's to level 2 at elite, but so does Jarmen Kell's abilities only he shoots much faster.
The other improvements mentioned were having her not stop while stealing cash, unless ordered otherwise, and disable structure to function like the disable vehicle not having her constantly typing to keep the structure disabled like the hackers - similar to Jarmen Kell's ability.
And the final matter referred to having an unique feature. You have the Nuke Lotus, Demo Kell, Armor Burton, Aircraft Burton and Laser Burton. Why not make each one unique? The suggestions I posted for each are open for debate and for new ideas, they were as an example to get things started.

Now if we are passed the idea of me not knowing how to use Lotus can we move to the matter at hand?

[Zeke]

Actually yes you do get promoted for capturing stuff. I once had a heroic ranger because of that.

Also, what westwood mod are you talking about, sounds interesting...

[Negative Zero]

Is SWR open to suggestions again?

Actually yes you do get promoted for capturing stuff. I once had a heroic ranger because of that.

Also, what westwood mod are you talking about, sounds interesting...

I know you get promoted from capturing, even stealing and disabling, but it's not as easy as with Burton.

The Westwood mod / patch was released by former Westwood to prove they can do things better in C&C. I think this is the one http://commandandconquer.filefront.com/fil..._To_Power;26331. It's fun, but there is some imbalance.

Is SWR open to suggestions again?

Meh... it can't hurt to try. Plus I'm not asking for major changes. If they can find the time to do some tweaks it would be great. If not we don't have anything to lose. Maybe they will include something like this in Rise of Reds.

This post has been edited by DragonHawk: 19 Dec 2010, 5:10

[GuardianTempest]

Before I download that, what does it do?

[Waris]

It's a modification for ZH, so it modifies your default ZH installation so it plays differently than the default game with new additions.

But why would you download Reborn anyway?

[Darkfire Angel]

Are you sure this is a Westwood mod, because it says it was submitted by Nuker? No where does it mention Westwood at all in fact.
Also the team isn't taking suggestions for SW or Rise of the Reds, which is probably why they haven't replied to the topic.

[Alias]

Lol, Reborn.

[MARS]

That mod has nothing to do with Westwood. In fact, if it did, it would reflect rather poorly on Westwood.

I don't know if that's the one, I had it from a friend and the file has the same name. It says Westwood on the opening of the game much like the "SWR Productions" logo.

I take it most of you tried it before?

This post has been edited by DragonHawk: 19 Dec 2010, 13:04

[Waris]

That mod has been around for years now, most of us who are accustomed to ZH modding must have played it at least once now, myself included.

So you think it has something to do with Westwood just because it has the opening video in the intro. Well, I've got a bad news for you...

Sorry to hear that. But that was a long time ago, got it from a friend and it was the first mod of Generals I played.

[Shock]

Yeah that is the first mod for most of us since it was one of the first. (although mine is Project Raptor, never touched reborn after hearing all about it xD)

[Zeke]

lol, the Westwood intro was just put there because he hated the EA one

I suggest you play V5, tis their best version so far.

Cool, I just noticed that Toxin Kell leaves toxins where he shoots, nice feature. Plus the model is unique. These are the type of features I hope every hero gets.