Large Urban Maps? or Map talk thread, Anyone got any? Options

[FalseDead]

So does anyone here know of any good, large, non-symmetrical, urban warfare maps for ROTR? Preferably Skirmish Compatible?

In the both the original and in Zero hour I enjoyed this map . "Bay Area Brawl"

As well as "Battle for Baghdad" which is here

Doe anyone know of comparable ROTR maps where I can use Helicopers and APCs to their full ability and mobility?
Where I can ambush unsuspecting players from side streets or hold a entire block against oncoming assaults? or where I have to smash the city to pieces to flush out my enemies!



While where at it why not make this a generic map thread

What maps do you like? Why? Where their any that you played in Generals or ZH that you wish you could play here? are there any here that you have a gripe about?

Post your thoughts!
Amuse me!
I demand it!

This post has been edited by FalseDead: 23 Mar 2013, 12:24

[(USA)Bruce]

First of all, you cant demand anything bub, or this town wont be big enough for the both of us

Sure theres maps with Urban enviorments but some factions have a major superiorty when it comes to it.

Gla has molotovs and Toxin troopers while USA has blackhawks that can drop rangers on Flashbang mode, killing nearby garrison.Not to mention the chineese flame hans.Then theres the crippled brother of the antigarrison area, the ECA with only an upgradeable ability from a panzer, a built in one for a grenaider and their hero.

Why isnt there more big maps like that? Well theres a generic size for maps, anything bigger will make the rushing agressive bulldog players rage when they see a single guard tower (You know who you are)
If its too small then ECA has no space to really shine.

Battle of Bagdad is a wonderfull map, we enjoyed playing in it for a while on the Handschar network yet due to constant mismatches we dont take the games seriously, thus no play at all.

Alpine assult is my favorite Urban map other then BOB due to the supplies locations up on the high ground with a vital middle area.

Theres plenty of maps where you can transport your troops and all, I suspect your a player who goes vs the computers cause people usually go agaisnt the simcity aproach of making units in the base and transporting them, They would rather make a warfactory on your front door
Yeah I know....Aint fun, its competitve but not fun...

I'll post some more stuff on later

[X1Destroy]

Bear town Beatdown is a very good urban map I play infantry assaults on that map all the time

BTW, anybody know some good maps for tank assaults? Like the tank general challenge map in ZH? With woodland and snow?

I see mostly dessert and mountainous maps.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 23 Mar 2013, 13:40

[Svea Rike]

Hometown Alliance is the best urban map for me. Otherwise I have downloaded that large city map that can be played with ShockWave, what's its name again? I don't rally remember but there was three players, a night club and a crazy amount of detail to the city.

What I love to do in WB is make cities. Not only normal cities but also stranger looking cities. Urban maps can also be downloaded from CnCDen, one is named Tropical Fortress and its really fun.

[Knjaz.]

Battle of Baghdad is best among urban warfare maps that I've seen, so far. Bear Town and Hometown are not in same league, I'd say (but they're pretty good urban maps, as well)

There's a newer version that Evan made us, a bit more balanced and without Train of Doom, but due to some unexplainable reason it's also less stable.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 23 Mar 2013, 17:45

[Xofolez]

hey guys, maybe throw ideas at me and ill possibly make them happen or maybe said ideas have been accomplished as i am doing a lot of catography for ROTR specifically, but i am sure i could go back and edit to be SW and ZH friendly... hey falsedead, ill make it happen for you

[TheCeLL]

IMO Tournament Oasis is a good generic city+outskirts map

If you leave a couple slots empty there, then there is plenty of space for tank on tank clashes (on other player's empty slots) and a nice little village in the middle

[Xofolez]

Battle of Baghdad is best among urban warfare maps that I've seen, so far. Bear Town and Hometown are not in same league, I'd say (but they're pretty good urban maps, as well)

There's a newer version that Evan made us, a bit more balanced and without Train of Doom, but due to some unexplainable reason it's also less stable.

I am pretty sure as have it, its the waypoints and areas that are causing the problems, I am working at trying to repair that.. my reasons are there are too many of each

EDIT: and the original developer was really slopy, probably because the map layout was so much work and tedious at that lol

This post has been edited by Xofolez: 23 Mar 2013, 17:57

[Svea Rike]

I am pretty sure as have it, its the waypoints and areas that are causing the problems, I am working at trying to repair that.. my reasons are there are too many of each

EDIT: and the original developer was really slopy, probably because the map layout was so much work and tedious at that lol

Trains and waypoints on multiplayer maps that are not attack paths for AI usually casue problems. The scripting system was actually designed for single-player missions. I believe EA originally had another way or making multiplayer AI work...

[FalseDead]

First of all, you cant demand anything bub, or this town wont be big enough for the both of us

Well this amuses me so I think I Win!

Sure theres maps with Urban enviorments but some factions have a major superiorty when it comes to it.


Gla has molotovs and Toxin troopers while USA has blackhawks that can drop rangers on Flashbang mode, killing nearby garrison.Not to mention the chineese flame hans.Then theres the crippled brother of the antigarrison area, the ECA with only an upgradeable ability from a panzer, a built in one for a grenaider and their hero.

Sure, but properly supported by Armor/ AA a garrisoned building can ruin a AI offensive or cause a Human player to have to micromanage to deal with it
allowing you to make broad sweeping assaults/counter attacks

Why isnt there more big maps like that? Well theres a generic size for maps, anything bigger will make the rushing agressive bulldog players rage when they see a single guard tower (You know who you are)
If its too small then ECA has no space to really shine.

Let those players that want to rush play their smaller maps, I want to smash large enemy armor columns and watch both sides spend gratuitous amounts to make gains.

I want Logistics and Strategy to win the game not tactics

Battle of Bagdad is a wonderfull map, we enjoyed playing in it for a while on the Handschar network yet due to constant mismatches we dont take the games seriously, thus no play at all.

Alpine assult is my favorite Urban map other then BOB due to the supplies locations up on the high ground with a vital middle area.

Is there a"battle of Baghdad" that is compatible with ROTR skirmish? Where? Which map pack? Linky please?

(Edit) Nevermind found it! though they really changed the starting positions...why? Balance I suppose...but...whatever! time to kill Ruskies and Chi-com!
-

Theres plenty of maps where you can transport your troops and all, I suspect your a player who goes vs the computers cause people usually go agaisnt the simcity aproach of making units in the base and transporting them, They would rather make a warfactory on your front door
Yeah I know....Aint fun, its competitve but not fun...

50/50 I used to have both Original Generals and Zero Hour on disc, but they where destroyed by heat damage from a Small electrical fire ( Basically if it was near the computer it toasted, But not other real damage)

When I had them on disc I played friends and I also played online. I did use transports as taxis however normally I built them, threw them into battle, Repaired them with General power and loaded them with the veteran infantry from the fighting. So my Humvee would have a eclectic mix of Pathfinders, Rangers, Missile defenders based on what was surviving and killing... Or my troop crawler would be sent to the front emptied then refilled... all before moving straight into combat again rinse and repeat

However since I have gotten origins ultimate edition I haven't played Online yet, although I should

I'll post some more stuff on later

Good, Good
As I have willed it!

This post has been edited by FalseDead: 24 Mar 2013, 1:53

[redVaryant]

Homeland Alliance is pretty good too, with lots of buildings in the middle of the map,
and it has a lot of supplies to. Great for 4 players.

I usually just put barracks in the middle of the map and garrison tank hunters to protect the supplies.

[Jester]

Hometown Alliance is the best urban map for me. Otherwise I have downloaded that large city map that can be played with ShockWave, what's its name again? I don't rally remember but there was three players, a night club and a crazy amount of detail to the city.

What I love to do in WB is make cities. Not only normal cities but also stranger looking cities. Urban maps can also be downloaded from CnCDen, one is named Tropical Fortress and its really fun.

That map was Shockwave city and it was made by Comr4de I really loved that map then my pc died and took it with it now it's gone If you read this Luis please share it if you still have it around.

[Joe Kidd]

My moneys on Bruce...

I'd like to see more navy/island maps where you have to leapfrog from island to island with helis and transports

And bravo to all you mapmakers out there, you allow noobs like me to try out this epic mod to its full extent

[Tico1990]

FalseDead, care to share that linky to RotR compatible Battle of Baghdad?

[Genmotty]

Hmm....I would say 'Dragons Wrath', but that's a custom map I built for my version of General Leang in vZH she was basically normal China but with a fire emphasis. So doesn't really count for multiplayer.


Even though it's not really a city map Mountain Guns is a good large map in my opinion, since controlling the middle is not an easy task and if you through an AI on the island in the bottom right in a MP team match boy that can make things well fun! Not a huge fan of Alpine Assault, looks snazzy yet things tend to end up with the central chokes and/or the player that gets the high ground winning. Siege(?) is also fairly fun, but the glichy bridge and moat in the top left can be a real infuriation for the defender. Battle for Bagdad is also alright. Played it with vZH several times, but I always though that China ended up being the best on that map because small defences and large numbers of red guard meant you could all too often trick people into overcompensating with the garrison clear weapons, also air spam.


There are several good standard maps like Homeland Shield(?), Bear Town Beatdown(?) yet they can often breakdown into 'he who controls the middle, controls the earth!' and well, fine for small plays, but it got really lame when three of my mates wanted to gang up on me and I took the city in the center and held it each of the 3 times we played the game over. Like Free Fire Zone(?) I think is the other map where it is too easy to take the center and dominate a map.



In essence a good large scale map should operate on the principle;


A: 1 Supply Dock per player in a 'standard base location'

B: N-2 'Better base locations' with either multiple (read 2) supply docks, and/or a tech building or two (where N is the number of players)

C: N-1 'true chokes' i.e. map terrain creates the choke rather than buildings or other content

Di: A layout without an obvious 'no-mans-land'

Dii: A non-equal demarcation boundary i.e. a separator like a river, but without making obvious build up positions for chokes and/or the width exceeding artillery range*


Examples: Silent River, Final Crusade, Homeland Shield.

*nobody like storming bridges under continuous nuke cannon shelling and the other side is brim full of AA resorting to super-weapon spam.


The point is with B, we create something to fight over, but if they are separated out, rather than grouped in the middle it becomes more difficult to say who is going for what, it draws the game out and makes it more equal because even if the best zone has been lost to a player, they may have captured on of the other locations. If each player is given a location, then it's not really something that instils action, since if their second base is 'safe' then what's the point contesting it.

C creates action points, big flat maps don't have this, Defcon suffers from while it is a nice big map, the wide central area means its difficult to focus here and so ownership of the land tends towards not-at-all or late game for matches with multiple people. If you can create areas that can be defended in the center(s) of the map, then it instils people to attempt moving out a bit more.

Obvious no-mans-lands like a big open field in Forgotten Forest or Iron Dragon (2plyr), great for tanks and high value matches suffer from in the smaller numbers of players you generating a defences stand off with just raiding till one player gives in. This is because there is little in the map to 'fight for' that ROTR map styled on the Berlin Wall is an example here, while the chokes are good, there is little to 'fight for' in the map, so it will end up with raiding until one side is forced into a position that can be exploited, and then the game is called. There is little 'to and fro' from the participants playing.

Finally, you want a demarcation boundary, because it psychologically creates 'spheres of influence', Lone Eagle is good here because it has chokes, it has a notion of where to defend, and also where to expand to, which of course has to be fought over.



The worst thing you want from a map is for it to be a contest over a single game winning area, or it developing into a stalemate that can only be broken with super-weapons. Because if this is the map strategy, then it's not very fun to play, and peoples strategies are dictated via the map design before they even begin, rather than be allowed to flourish during the match. However over doing the number of areas that can be contested is also an issue, if there is 'too much map' in this sense, then it can end up with players spread out far too thin, and given the fast paced nature of the game can end up frustrating players who try and expand early only to be caught via those factions that can rush hard, like the GLA.

Which is a key point, different factions respond to different map types in different ways. Typically China likes large maps with key chokes. This is because hackers need space to be 'hidden', but their defences also cost a far amount and have to be combined to be effective. Hence these elements help a Chinese player. The US loves lots of space, and lots of space where you can't 'meta hide' units with buildings or simply through clutter on the map surface. This is because the more space you have to have planes flying in front of your base, the more you can use air power. Furthermore relatively fast hummers and choppers can also raid fairly effectively on larger maps again for reasons of space. The GLA likes large maps, since technicals are 'uberfast' and can very quickly dominate map control compared to other factions like China, Russia or the ECA who also tend to need map control. Russia is paradoxical, since it wants lots of space to spread out Arms Suppliers, but its poor defences mean that it can't easily hold map control, likewise chokes are less important so Russia really wants to fight on medium sized maps, and the larger the map...the less effective it can be. Which leaves the ECA, on the one hand they need good flat space for their large buildings, but again, don't want massive maps, because that means alot of ground to cover. Chokes are key to them two, but with their own garrison-able buildings, bothering to go for urban areas isn't a huge priority. Further the large the map, the more air can be used against them. Which might not sound bad, but it kinda is since their ground attack is weak in the first place.

With ROTRs more complex amphibious aspect this must be taken into account when considering limited naval use.

[X1Destroy]

If there was a like button, I would push it right now

Very true.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 24 Mar 2013, 11:53

[Talonek]

I have been working on a map for the past few weeks that is urban focused, however, it is incomplete and probably won't fit all your requirements.

http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q681/T...zps80ba8c2b.png
http://i1354.photobucket.com/albums/q681/T...zps80ba8c2b.png

[FalseDead]

FalseDead, care to share that linky to RotR compatible Battle of Baghdad?

Its among these maps

This post has been edited by FalseDead: 25 Mar 2013, 3:25

[Chuck Kawosky]

DOES ANYONE know why the two maps called "Company Town" and Tournament Valley" do not work on Multi player / LAN modes? They only work on Single Skirmish modes and are simply not available in LAN/MP modes. I think they came with the map pack for RoTRs so they are official.

I also downloaded Company Town from here: http://www.cncden.com/genxmaps_spyvspy.shtml and it still doesnt work in LAN/MP modes. . .?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks ..

[Casojin]

Are you sure that you check the map list thoroughly?
I remember seeing that map during MP match (but not chosen though).
Perhaps, reinstallation of mappack?

[Chuck Kawosky]

Hiya thanks for reply, yeah ive un and re installed the ROTR map pack twice which is 23mb but the the maps in concern still don't show up in "unofficial" in LAN/MP modes, only inSkirmish single player. What do you thinks going on here as when 2.0 comes out i'll need these maps...Ive checked both lists very closely as well.

Ive even reinstalled Zero hour and generals patched and still same problem. ??

This post has been edited by sim0b: 26 Mar 2013, 16:17

[Casojin]

I just realize that I have the same problem as well.
I think I know the source of the problem. Too many maps in Maps folder. The game seems to see only 114 maps for me.
I tried moving all other maps away and leave that map in the folder. It appears correctly.
So, this is engine limit, which cannot be fixed by the mod team.

[Chuck Kawosky]

Hello. You are ABSOLUTELY CORRECT!!! I reinstalled with no extra modded maps and only used the ROTR maps and official maps and now they are playable on LAN/MP modes. Your right the engine only recognises 114 maps and no more. Thanks for your help. You should get a job at SWR Productions!!! Cheers mate

[Casojin]

You should get a job at SWR Productions!!!

I'm already a RotR Beta Tester.

[Danz Q]

@original post:

This is what you are looking for.

A map made by me, some years ago. Large. Asymmetrical. Detailed. Urban. And it got Highways.
I made a quick test with ROTR, and AI should work. I noticed no major AI lags. On some starting spots the COM will do better than on others due to little space differences.

Shockwave's New General's AI (If there is any by now >_>) is not inserted.

Attached File(s)

 Innercity_Crisis__ZH_.zip ( 263.29K ) Number of downloads: 28