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Jarmen Kell, the worst hero?
XoGamer
post 26 Feb 2017, 18:22
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OK, this might be slightly opinionated BUT:

Jarmen Kell is by far the worst hero, when he lost his tank sniping for his "tank disabling" ability which is the worst ability since most units are backed by others anyways - you wouldn't send a dozer by itself to expand etc. and it reveals Jarmen the whole time, and furthermore it isn't even that lethal.

I have to say however, his primary sniper shot (althought it can only be used on infantry) is great considering he kills most infantry with one shot and from a great range and his second ability kills all aircraft with one shot (Mini Question: does this affect general's aircraft?) and being able to hide whilst in buildings is also a great pro.

While these are all very big pros, there are way too many cons for him to be considering anything worthwhile.
For example:

Every other hero can deal damage to buildings or cripple a base or capture buildings etc. but Jarmen can't do anything to buildings.
Jarmen can't do anything against enemy vehicles.
Jarmen isn't great support unless you are playing against an faction which uses tons of infantry and even then by the time you have Jarmen everyone already has tanks, anti-infantry vehicles and stealth detectors which completely nullify him.

Basically, all he can do is kill infantry and shoot planes from time to time (and disable tanks but as I said before that is literally useless)


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Jet02
post 26 Feb 2017, 18:31
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I personally prefer the new kell over the one in zh. Driver-sniping vehicles is fun, but sniping planes is much better.
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Ally
post 26 Feb 2017, 18:31
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Jarmen Kell is a great GLA anti-infantry hero with some bonuses against occasional combat aircraft and a lone tank.



I don't see anything wrong with him.



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XoGamer
post 26 Feb 2017, 18:36
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How useful is it to disable a tank considering it takes some time to disable it, he will be revealed the whole time and that lone tanks are usually very rare?

It's very situational, and requires very specific circumstances for this ability to be useful.

Although I must admit sniping planes is fun, not everyone's base is swarming with planes or helis...

Tbh, it may just be me, I am just wondering if anyone else thinks the same thing?

This post has been edited by XoGamer: 26 Feb 2017, 18:37


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re_simeone
post 26 Feb 2017, 19:03
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Jarmen saved my ass countless times against Blackbears and Manticores.
Also he is best sniper unit in game.
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Skitt
post 26 Feb 2017, 19:38
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QUOTE (XoGamer @ 26 Feb 2017, 17:36) *
How useful is it to disable a tank considering it takes some time to disable it, he will be revealed the whole time and that lone tanks are usually very rare?

It's very situational, and requires very specific circumstances for this ability to be useful.

with a decent bit of micro he can hold off a sizeable tank force with the disable ability
iv seen him disable large russian blobs.
it all depends on if theres anti inf with the tanks or not and how good said tanks are vs infantry.


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X1Destroy
post 26 Feb 2017, 19:41
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The only faction that can fight without spamming lots of infantry by the time JK come out is USA, but since they use alots of planes there are still some uses for him.

I do feel that sometimes he can be useless. Like that ocassion where I tried to shut down a microwave tank, a group of 3 pathfinders appeared from the cliff and killed him instantly.





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SoraZ
post 26 Feb 2017, 20:05
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Jarmen is an "army" hero (much like Boris, but unlike Burton or Frank Jäger; Black Lotus is in the middle). Basicly, he isn't meant to be used alone, instead he acts as a force-multiplier. His sniping skills can remove dozens of infantry in record time, his Stinger launcher can destroy one (or, if closely packed enough, even multiple air units) and his vehicle disable is best used against high-profile targets, like (Blackbear) Sentinels, Golems, Manticores, Overlords and the like. Pilot sniping was originally removed because it broke certain units (since been fixed), and also because it was too powerful, as it allowed GLA to freely steal enemy Dozers.

So yeah, try to use Jarmen in combination with the rest of your forces, you should be able to achieve much better results.


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red_hootie
post 26 Feb 2017, 21:16
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To build off of OP's point, would it be too much if Jarmen could use suppressive fire against certain buildings, like maybe defenses or basic buildings?

After all, it would make some sense if building personal were on lockdown from an enemy sniper's constant fire. More practically, however, OP is right about his inability to deal with buildings, unlike even the other army support heroes. I say 'certain buildings,' most especially, because disabling everything would just seem like a alternative Franck Jaeger.

I'm personally content with Jarmen Kell's other abilities, which are plenty fair. I've only ever missed his building disable from Shockwave, which, admittedly, was a little broken at times, but I can't say the same for vehicle sniping. I do agree with OP that he could be slightly more versatile while still being balanced, though.
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XAOC-RU-
post 26 Feb 2017, 21:42
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And again we see topic where people complain about JK and want his pilot sniping back. I hope when 2.0 will be ready we wil see official FAQ and guide to answer for this questions. Suppressive fire is great ability you can use it without any cooldown and switch fast between targets perfct if you want to stop giant tank and all army that followed it backwards and then use your buggy swarm or grads to eliminate all this. also you can disable chinees ECM tanks USA microwave and many other units. So dont say that current JK is a s**t
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(USA)Bruce
post 26 Feb 2017, 22:19
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Hey ROTR did castrate tech stealing too, hijackers cant take over dozers and you cant nerve gas them.Snipe is removed and even if you do steal a CC of sorts and steal a dozer you cant rebuild a CC

So I wouldnt mind the snipe returning to jarmen, If anyone think the aircraft sniping is "amazing" go try out jarmen from shockwave and the KVSK rifle he has with its abilities.
>Kills Infantry like ROTR jarmen
>Can snipe helis instantly- ROTR jarmen can kill any air unit (yeah the shockwave one cant damage aircraft) but ROTR jarmen reveals himself and the animation is slow.Also heli snipes damage scales with AP ammo and ranks,
>Snipes tanks - Supresses a unit, supressed units cant be hijacked.Units nearby to the target can get effected if its close enogh
>Shoot powergrid; disbles any non defence building to be disabled in a single shot for awhile -ROTR has no equivilant to this.

Add the fact that the ROTR jarmens could also plant explosives, they were amazing

The current jarmen doesnt have enough abilities and isnt "stealthy" enough, you'll generally always see him with his slow animations or role of just automoving and taking care of Infantry.

But people are used to how things are now and they will fight tooth and nail to preserve their safe and known way of gameplay rather then think out of their box.




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(USA)Bruce
post 26 Feb 2017, 22:22
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QUOTE (red_hootie @ 26 Feb 2017, 23:16) *
To build off of OP's point, would it be too much if Jarmen could use suppressive fire against certain buildings, like maybe defenses or basic buildings?

After all, it would make some sense if building personal were on lockdown from an enemy sniper's constant fire. More practically, however, OP is right about his inability to deal with buildings, unlike even the other army support heroes. I say 'certain buildings,' most especially, because disabling everything would just seem like a alternative Franck Jaeger.

I'm personally content with Jarmen Kell's other abilities, which are plenty fair. I've only ever missed his building disable from Shockwave, which, admittedly, was a little broken at times, but I can't say the same for vehicle sniping. I do agree with OP that he could be slightly more versatile while still being balanced, though.


I dont remmeber if it worked on defences but I do remember that in 1.7 he could supress anything, with escalation being the psuedo T1 upgrade and jarmen being avaible earlier then other heros I have fond memories of a single jarmen disabling the solar reactor of an ECA.Its a hilarous momment in the games development.

Also lets not forget that the bike he has doesnt let him use supression either.


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SoraZ
post 26 Feb 2017, 22:24
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Yeah, and that's ShW, not ROTR. If we went around and implemented other broken stuff, like Devastators, people would complain again from the other direction.


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(USA)Bruce
post 26 Feb 2017, 22:38
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QUOTE (SoraZ @ 27 Feb 2017, 0:24) *
Yeah, and that's ShW, not ROTR. If we went around and implemented other broken stuff, like Devastators, people would complain again from the other direction.

Porting the exact same abilities was not the point.The point was that he used the rifle that was hitscan aka instant and he had more then one use.Current jarmen reveals himself way too much, like for example he had a silencer that reduced his damage but AP ammo and veterancy somewhat rounded it up that'd be a godsend.

Alongside that pilot sniping or stealing tech being near impossible limits the possibilities of formations and unit variety.Capturing an american dozer to get power and Search and destroy for your buggies and AA is a dream we can no longer see often.

This post has been edited by (USA)Bruce: 26 Feb 2017, 22:41


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ABritishTeapot
post 27 Feb 2017, 0:44
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Definitely not. I would rank him as one of the top heroes, in fact. Sure, the loss of pilot snipe is a big effect but I think the suppression shot is a worthy replacement. Jarmen can suppress multiple vehicles, Russia in particular is vulnerable to this and their vehicles are ripe for hijacking. You use him as a support unit rather than a frontline unit, combined arms with him is rather deadly.


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red_hootie
post 27 Feb 2017, 2:24
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 26 Feb 2017, 16:22) *
I dont remember if it worked on defences but I do remember that in 1.7 he could supress anything, with escalation being the psuedo T1 upgrade and jarmen being avaible earlier then other heros I have fond memories of a single jarmen disabling the solar reactor of an ECA.Its a hilarous momment in the games development.

Also lets not forget that the bike he has doesnt let him use supression either.



Yeah, the ECA reactor was exactly what I had in mind that would destroy his balance. I don't personally see what would be wrong with a toned-down version that, say, would only work on defenses. That would be pretty useful addition in a supporting role, I think.

I don't think anybody really wants pilot sniping to make a comeback in ROTR (I don't), but a minor extension of an already in-place ability shouldn't hurt the game any.
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M01
post 27 Feb 2017, 5:25
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Doesn't Karmen can:

Snipe inside building w/o being detected?

Effective counter to USA AT Drones?


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ZunZero97
post 27 Feb 2017, 5:44
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QUOTE (XoGamer @ 26 Feb 2017, 14:22) *
OK, this might be slightly opinionated BUT:

Jarmen Kell is by far the worst hero, when he lost his tank sniping for his "tank disabling" ability which is the worst ability since most units are backed by others anyways - you wouldn't send a dozer by itself to expand etc. and it reveals Jarmen the whole time, and furthermore it isn't even that lethal.

I have to say however, his primary sniper shot (althought it can only be used on infantry) is great considering he kills most infantry with one shot and from a great range and his second ability kills all aircraft with one shot (Mini Question: does this affect general's aircraft?) and being able to hide whilst in buildings is also a great pro.

While these are all very big pros, there are way too many cons for him to be considering anything worthwhile.
For example:

Every other hero can deal damage to buildings or cripple a base or capture buildings etc. but Jarmen can't do anything to buildings.
Jarmen can't do anything against enemy vehicles.
Jarmen isn't great support unless you are playing against an faction which uses tons of infantry and even then by the time you have Jarmen everyone already has tanks, anti-infantry vehicles and stealth detectors which completely nullify him.

Basically, all he can do is kill infantry and shoot planes from time to time (and disable tanks but as I said before that is literally useless)

Why?
he can do/is:
the most deadly anti-infantry
can kill in one ''shot'' aircraft
can disable heavy tanks
can kill in one shot any hero in the game
stealthed
anything else?


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Maelstrom
post 27 Feb 2017, 9:51
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Not sure if somebody mentionned it, but his Stinger is immune to any kind of countermeasure. Which make him even deadlier biggrin.gif

The only way to disrupt it is Goliath, but only if it got activated BEFORE the missile is launched (because the helicopter becomes untargettable for a few seconds)


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XAOC-RU-
post 27 Feb 2017, 16:58
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QUOTE (Maelstrom @ 27 Feb 2017, 13:51) *
Not sure if somebody mentionned it, but his Stinger is immune to any kind of countermeasure. Which make him even deadlier biggrin.gif

The only way to disrupt it is Goliath, but only if it got activated BEFORE the missile is launched (because the helicopter becomes untargettable for a few seconds)

His stinger is most unfair weapon if compare it to targets that he can shot down. Do not matter if this is littlebird of scout drone of heavy gunship a.k.a. Hind. One shot to all. It would be nice if his stinger will deal less damage and fire more rapidly (so it will be still need oneshot for little birds and more shots for other targets that have more HP)

This post has been edited by XAOC-RU-: 27 Feb 2017, 16:59
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SoraZ
post 27 Feb 2017, 17:02
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No, because that would limit its tactical use.


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XoGamer
post 27 Feb 2017, 20:47
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QUOTE (XAOC-RU- @ 26 Feb 2017, 20:42) *
And again we see topic where people complain about JK and want his pilot sniping back. I hope when 2.0 will be ready we wil see official FAQ and guide to answer for this questions. Suppressive fire is great ability you can use it without any cooldown and switch fast between targets perfct if you want to stop giant tank and all army that followed it backwards and then use your buggy swarm or grads to eliminate all this. also you can disable chinees ECM tanks USA microwave and many other units. So dont say that current JK is a s**t


No I didn't ask specifically for his pilot sniping back - his new abilities already compensate for it - but I do believe that when you get into a poorly guarded base, you can't do anything while every other hero (support heroes or otherwise such as CB) can reak havoc in the base, all but JK - so all I propose

QUOTE (ZunZero97 @ 27 Feb 2017, 4:44) *
Why?
he can do/is:
the most deadly anti-infantry
can kill in one ''shot'' aircraft
can disable heavy tanks
can kill in one shot any hero in the game
stealthed
anything else?


Colonel Burton can/is:
Kill most infantry very quickly with his gun
Kill infantry with his knife without being revealed
Destroy tanks with his grenade launcher
Destroy buildings with his bombs
Destroy buildings with his grenade launcher
Stealthed
Can climb mountains

Black Lotus can/is:
Detect other stealth units
Capture buildings fairly quickly
Disable vehicles and buildings (with the EMP charge thing)
Steal money from Supply Centers

Now both of these heroes can affect buildings significantly, and JK is supposed to be the "stealthiest heroes" (since he is the hero of the stealth faction lol) so he should at least be able to place booby traps or demo traps or ride in cars and snipe from there or disable buildings in some way or assault supply centers or something like that - right now he's very situational and I get he is supposed to be a support hero though he just feels useless.

Although I digress:
Can JK shoot Generals' Power Aircraft with his stinger?


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Knjaz.
post 27 Feb 2017, 21:20
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Look at how it synergizes with the faction and what capability it gives you on the field. Unlike other snipers, Jarmen one-shots everything, among other things effectively denying your opponent whole unit class (advanced heavy infantry and combat hero support).

Also, giving Jarmen pilot kill would require making multiple units immune to it, as, say, pilot kill vs sentinel with immediate rebel ambush, even level 1, and pilot kill vs your average ZH unit are kinda different in what they achieve. Not even starting on the Hero units like Manti or BBear.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 27 Feb 2017, 21:21
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(USA)Bruce
post 28 Feb 2017, 6:46
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The sentinel sniping and quick rebel ambush IS THE REASON WHY IT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA
But for hero units? Yeah pandoras can be immune to snipes,

The topic here is mostly to suggest he gets another ability, preferbly something to buildings.

This post has been edited by (USA)Bruce: 28 Feb 2017, 6:47


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X1Destroy
post 28 Feb 2017, 6:55
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I wish the suppressing fire got replaced by something like 1 shot disable EMP round. Tread breaking?

Because seriously, he can't disable tanks and not get himself kill in the process as it need him to reveal himself constantly and he can't run away because the tank will move immediately.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 28 Feb 2017, 6:56


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