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Jarmen Kell, the worst hero?
Knjaz.
post 28 Feb 2017, 7:00
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 28 Feb 2017, 7:46) *
The sentinel sniping and quick rebel ambush IS THE REASON WHY IT WOULD BE A GREAT IDEA
But for hero units? Yeah pandoras can be immune to snipes,

The topic here is mostly to suggest he gets another ability, preferbly something to buildings.


Like if going Sentinels vs GLA isn't already punishing enough, and on top of it SHW/ZH China player did not to build their Overlords to get access to ECM capability.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 28 Feb 2017, 7:55) *
I wish the suppressing fire got replaced by something like 1 shot disable EMP round. Tread breaking?

Because seriously, he can't disable tanks and not get himself kill in the process as it need him to reveal himself constantly and he can't run away because the tank will move immediately.


Yes, it's already borderline imba when it just stops your assault with micro, there's no need to make it worse - unless that bullet will have a long cooldown. As so far only GLA main player that wrote in this thread pointed out, the hero is very capable and extremely useful.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 28 Feb 2017, 7:01
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rey
post 28 Feb 2017, 10:22
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QUOTE (XoGamer @ 27 Feb 2017, 22:47) *
Black Lotus can/is:
Detect other stealth units
Capture buildings fairly quickly
Disable vehicles and buildings (with the EMP charge thing)
Steal money from Supply Centers

before i was only reading but no more after this absurd.
so Lotus is so potent?! few detectors and she's useless; few chasing-detectors and she's dead; she has no weapon to provide any damage, and no weapon to protect herself; ONLY steal money, buildings and if get real lucky/opponent is stupid she can disable defenses for some little time - and that's all..! no damaging capabilities whatsoever, while All other heroes can provide good damage(not even saying about defending themselves at least from part of detectors). so who's useless here??
p.s. take a note, i already understood in past that SWR won't change anything about that so i'm not asking/demanding anything, just got irritated with persistence TS in stating these foolish claims.
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Knjaz.
post 28 Feb 2017, 10:55
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QUOTE (rey @ 28 Feb 2017, 11:22) *
before i was only reading but no more after this absurd.
so Lotus is so potent?! few detectors and she's useless; few chasing-detectors and she's dead; she has no weapon to provide any damage, and no weapon to protect herself; ONLY steal money, buildings and if get real lucky/opponent is stupid she can disable defenses for some little time - and that's all..! no damaging capabilities whatsoever, while All other heroes can provide good damage(not even saying about defending themselves at least from part of detectors). so who's useless here??
p.s. take a note, i already understood in past that SWR won't change anything about that so i'm not asking/demanding anything, just got irritated with persistence TS in stating these foolish claims.


Lotus is a surprisingly effective combat hero when fighting tough and expensive units or hero units. I still recall how Kicho was stopping my Sentinel assaults with it. You're underestimating the power of disables in RotR.

One thing I'd like to see for Lotus though is removal of her stealth detecting "ping", so enemies can't pinpoint her location. She'd be perfect then.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 28 Feb 2017, 10:57
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XAOC-RU-
post 28 Feb 2017, 11:30
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 28 Feb 2017, 10:55) *
I wish the suppressing fire got replaced by something like 1 shot disable EMP round. Tread breaking?

Because seriously, he can't disable tanks and not get himself kill in the process as it need him to reveal himself constantly and he can't run away because the tank will move immediately.

then kill that tank before enemy will kill your JK? you have buggies for that, or am I wrong?
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Mizo
post 28 Feb 2017, 11:35
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May I also note that not every hero is supposed to be a one-man army ( closest thing to that is Boris or Burton, but their support capabilities are not that vast when put side by side with their armies).

Jarmen is the best support frontline hero in the game. He denies all kinds of infantry so hard, in addition of having utility that SYNERGIZES WITH YOUR ARMY. He's not meant to be a loner.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 28 Feb 2017, 11:46
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What mizo said.
Jarman is absolutely brutal because he can negate and insta kill half of your army from super range. Not only that but the ability to shut down key units and just remove air units from the battle is absolutely insane.

Try him in pvp before you say he's bad. He is god tier at what he does, and his abilities and stats have been meticulously chosen so that he doesn't end up broken.

EDIT: Of all the heros in the game i would say Lotus is the absolute best and is probably the most powerful in the game. Even with stealth detection in the base, shutting down vehicles is an amazingly powerful ability that should not be overstated.

This post has been edited by {Lads}RikerZZZ: 28 Feb 2017, 11:47


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Mizo
post 28 Feb 2017, 13:37
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Each hero excels in their niche :

1/ Burton can give some fire support but generally an infiltration hero, very dangerous without stealth detection in base.

2/ Lotus is the most dangerous hero in the game due to her utility. She can shut down tank columns , place emp bombs that gives you vision to the unit , which never fades, can capture buildigs, can steal money, can detect stealth. Her utility is insane.

3/ Boris is an army force multiplier and provides a counter to a particular threat in the battlefield making him flexible. He isn't a one man army nor an infiltration hero, so dont use him as such. He's like Jarmen, acting as support ( rach in a different way).

4/ Jarmen, highest threat on the field as he has the ability to shut down all 3 unit classes on the field at the same time, whether it be tanks , choppers or infantry. He's more of a army support rather than a force multiplier, but is NOT a sneaky hero nor an infiltration one.

5/ Jaeger is a disrupter, and a good counter-hero.
His presence in a particular fight usually the least dangerous unless a specific plan is set. For example, shuttig down tier 2 AA to bring in tigers ect...an infiltration anf sneaky hero, combination of Jarmen and Lotus, butbhas his own identity.


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rey
post 28 Feb 2017, 14:40
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@Mizo i have a question of interest to you: you mentioned in AI testing thread that often your wife just doesn't bother with too micro intensive units(if i remember correct that was about Boris particularly) - does she use Lotus?
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X1Destroy
post 28 Feb 2017, 15:27
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QUOTE (XAOC-RU- @ 28 Feb 2017, 12:30) *
then kill that tank before enemy will kill your JK? you have buggies for that, or am I wrong?


How many buggies are needed to kill a sentinel/manticore in a few seconds? 10? If so, why bother stopping said tanks with JK? Why not use the buggies to kill that thing the normal way?

A chopper or snipers will kill your JK much faster than that.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 28 Feb 2017, 15:32


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Skitt
post 28 Feb 2017, 15:45
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mstas, piodurs, sniperdurs, borris, jager/jagerdur, arena on sents = sod ur buggies

and u dont use the jarman directly in front of enemy army as its been stated hes to assist your other forces.
flank with jarman/move to the side of your main force, while the enemy army is engaging your main army then start to stun the buggie/main counters to your forces and snipe any stray heli with the stinger. in and out job dont just leave him standing there to be killed.


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(USA)Bruce
post 28 Feb 2017, 16:05
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Heres something I gotta mention;

In a scenerio where theres low resources or basicly Its a base race,
Lotus can capture your foes structures
Burton can Blow it up
Frank can kill it with his shotgun
Boris has a large arsenal to destroy a building
Jarmens lacked something unless you were demo in ZH, this...This needs to change.
The gun damaging buildings a tiny bit would still be "something"


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SoraZ
post 28 Feb 2017, 16:11
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To be fair, I never understood why the suppression fire cannot be aimed at structures, it still works on them if the attacked vehicle is close enough.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 28 Feb 2017, 23:50
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I think the obvious theory is that it would be a little silly to shutdown buildings with a sniper like that.


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X1Destroy
post 1 Mar 2017, 4:49
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The entire ability is silly to begin with. How would a state of the art super heavy tank fear of supressing fire from a sniper with a dragunov?


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M01
post 1 Mar 2017, 5:05
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Is it advisable to mount JK on a bike??
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XAOC-RU-
post 1 Mar 2017, 6:04
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 28 Feb 2017, 19:27) *
How many buggies are needed to kill a sentinel/manticore in a few seconds? 10? If so, why bother stopping said tanks with JK? Why not use the buggies to kill that thing the normal way?

A chopper or snipers will kill your JK much faster than that.

If you let them to detect your JK long before you start to disabling Sentinel then it's your fault. Every player need some time to react and noone will hold helis at frontline where they can be easily shoted down by AA and by Jarmens 1shot everything stinger. So anyway you will have time to retreat and when Hellions( or other things) will come your buggies and Jarmen will be hidden (if you have good reaction). Sure you cannot kill sentinel by 6 buggies maybe bu you can heavyly damage it and stop all army that coming right after him because he have huge size at there are not much maps with wide passes.
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XAOC-RU-
post 1 Mar 2017, 6:09
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QUOTE (M01 @ 1 Mar 2017, 9:05) *
Is it advisable to mount JK on a bike??

No because bikes cannot evade incoming rockets/missles. So your Jarmen will be easy target for Raptors for example even if he will cloak before missle reach it target. But if enemy have snipers at frontline you can kill them without any punishment from them because bikes is trucks with antisniper bullet armor in ROTR's logic
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XAOC-RU-
post 1 Mar 2017, 6:11
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 1 Mar 2017, 8:49) *
The entire ability is silly to begin with. How would a state of the art super heavy tank fear of supressing fire from a sniper with a dragunov?

There are many silly moments in ROTR. Thats ok
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XAOC-RU-
post 1 Mar 2017, 6:17
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 28 Feb 2017, 20:05) *
Heres something I gotta mention;

In a scenerio where theres low resources or basicly Its a base race,
Lotus can capture your foes structures
Burton can Blow it up
Frank can kill it with his shotgun
Boris has a large arsenal to destroy a building
Jarmens lacked something unless you were demo in ZH, this...This needs to change.
The gun damaging buildings a tiny bit would still be "something"

In scenario when both players have low resourses and fact small army>>> GLA will have advantage due to high mobility. Sure that GLA need stealth detection to prevent base destroying. But they simpy can place few stealthed dushkas near important buildings.
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Zion
post 1 Mar 2017, 19:09
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I like how jarmen shoots suppression fire faster than he snipes anything else, and the animation looks funny...

to be more realistic, maybe slow it down a knot
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Neutrino
post 2 Mar 2017, 6:37
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Two things would make my day:
1) Make suppression work vs buildings as before. (I don't even know why it was removed in the first place)
2) Have jarmen switch between regular sniping, suppression and stinger so all three can be used with guard mode.


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XoGamer
post 2 Mar 2017, 8:33
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I think he should be able to have a silencer like pathfinders - same effect etc.


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M01
post 2 Mar 2017, 9:28
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QUOTE (Neutrino @ 2 Mar 2017, 13:37) *
Two things would make my day:
1) Make suppression work vs buildings as before. (I don't even know why it was removed in the first place)
2) Have jarmen switch between regular sniping, suppression and stinger so all three can be used with guard mode.


1) He wasn't supposed to disable buildings its Jaeger's thing
2) Most likely uncodable, also his stinger is a OHK against aircrafts & helicopters that be OP better leave the unbroken ability alone

QUOTE (XoGamer @ 2 Mar 2017, 15:33) *
I think he should be able to have a silencer like pathfinders - same effect etc.


No

Pathfinders have reduced dmg (no OHKs) against infantry, same would happen to Jarmen, also Jarmen is already a better pathfinder (he can garrison buildings w/o been seen)

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(USA)Bruce
post 2 Mar 2017, 10:06
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QUOTE (M01 @ 2 Mar 2017, 11:28) *
1) He wasn't supposed to disable buildings its Jaeger's thing
2) Most likely uncodable, also his stinger is a OHK against aircrafts & helicopters that be OP better leave the unbroken ability alone

no

Pathfinders have reduced dmg (no OHKs) against infantry, same would happen to Jarmen, also Jarmen is already a better pathfinder (he can garrison buildings w/o been seen)

First of all, nobody gets to say "no" or "yes" to ideas.Firstly because nobody is above or lower then anyone else here, secondly because suggestions arent really accepted but a conversation is what a forum is for.



So for the first part;
If jarmens stinger could fire in tottal stealth at heroic ranks or not make his location obvious/have a chance to escape after he shot it.Maybe speed up the animation then that stinger would be relevant all game long.Currently you see a jarmen taking a shot at your hellions, he fires it and kills one.You fire a thermobaric pod and you kill jarmen.

Near equal trade 1 for 1 for a combat hero,

As for the silencer part, This is the best way to go Imo, a faster or atleast stealthy fire mode at the cost of damage, with AP ammo and veterancy it would be able to kill shocktroopers or HTL rangers with ease.

Also everyone give XAOC a round of applause because he is rigously defending that jarmen is perfect and responding to everybody.

Edit; Supression cant be a firemode I already asked, Im not sure if jarmen could or should constantly fire at a warfactory to disable it.

This post has been edited by (USA)Bruce: 2 Mar 2017, 10:07


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rey
post 2 Mar 2017, 10:29
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 2 Mar 2017, 12:06) *
If jarmens stinger could fire in tottal stealth at heroic ranks or not make his location obvious/have a chance to escape after he shot it.Maybe speed up the animation then that stinger would be relevant all game long.Currently you see a jarmen taking a shot at your hellions, he fires it and kills one.You fire a thermobaric pod and you kill jarmen.

this is true Only in condition player is focused on part of battlefield with copters, or has them in direct control, or is not occupied by some other battle-task. otherwise due to distance ability may be used, Jarmen easily escapes in stealth without any "trade".
i'm fine with this, lets just not describe this ability as "easy to counter".
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