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SpiralSpectre
post 25 Mar 2013, 10:51
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 25 Mar 2013, 14:16) *
Wait? How come Charles is going to get a Centurion Tank? Wasn't it supposed to be a Challenger?

Oh that one. Fixing it now. Though you know you could do that yourself.
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X1Destroy
post 25 Mar 2013, 10:55
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And I just noticed that I can edit it without a wiki account now laugh.gif

Should have done that earlier.


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SpiralSpectre
post 25 Mar 2013, 17:57
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Anyone got any idea about what to do with this page?

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FalseDead
post 25 Mar 2013, 18:10
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QUOTE (Karpet @ 15 Mar 2013, 13:07) *
Agree.

Put description terms such as MBT in, that's what I'm for.

Maybe someone wants to find APCs for a comparison.
Description terms make it easier to find the vehicles you want.



I like this as well

That said Rather than Main battle tank we maybe should use a more WWII style system such as this

Light tanks: Hopper, Rhino, ?pandur?, Scorpion
Medium Tank: Crusader, Battlemaster, Cheetah, Leopard, ?Kodiak?, ?Marauder?
Heavy Tanks: ?Kodiak? Golem, Paladin, ?Marauder?, ?Overlord?
Super-Heavy Tanks: Sentinel, ?Overlord?, Manticore

Infantry tanks: Tesla, Toxin, Dragon, Microwave
APC: Troop Crawler, Battlebus,, Miska, Lynx
IFV: Bradley, BMP-3, BMD-3
Wheeled Personal Carriers: Humvee, Technical

This post has been edited by FalseDead: 25 Mar 2013, 18:15
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X1Destroy
post 25 Mar 2013, 18:29
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Marauder is more of an SPG rather than a tank.

Golem shouldn't be in the same group with Paladin, since it's much more bulkier and it's usage is very different.

The Paladin is much more like an MBT, the lore even said that it is what the Abrams is in RL.

Mine should be like this:

Light tanks: Hopper, Scorpion, Cheetah.
Medium Tank: Crusader, Battlemaster, Leopard, Rhino.
Heavy Tanks: Kodiak, Paladin.
Super-Heavy Tanks: Sentinel, Overlord, Golem, Manticore.
Tank Destroyers: Marauder, Jagdmamut, Sprut.

Pandur should be in the IFV list. It isn't as tough as a tank.

Miska is a scout unit.

BTW, some question regarding exclusive units for the generals in 2.0.

The KA-52 Aligator will still be the exclusive heli for Orlov which will make the werewolf gone forever, isn't it?

Does Thorn still get the LOSAT humvee?

And wouldn't it be too soon to reveal them in the wiki right now?

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 25 Mar 2013, 18:44


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FalseDead
post 25 Mar 2013, 19:15
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 25 Mar 2013, 12:29) *
Marauder is more of an SPG rather than a tank.


Figured that as well, However SPG is a rather small section in ROTR

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 25 Mar 2013, 12:29) *
Golem shouldn't be in the same group with Paladin, since it's much more bulkier and it's usage is very different.

I would keep them both as heavies, the Golem is just a shade to light to be Super-Heavy and the Paladin has too much armor and PD to really be treated as anything less

Yes and no. Their usage is very much the same, acting as damage soaks-- though admittedly in different ways-- and both are amazingly resilient.
QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 25 Mar 2013, 12:29) *
The Paladin is much more like an MBT, the lore even said that it is what the Abrams is in RL.

Maybe it is based off the Abrams, I certainly can't recall.
However its armor, Drone repair, and PD laser give it the Resilience of a heavy tank
That said I will agree it has is under-gunned for a heavy tank, doing damage more in line with a Medium tank--though bombardment or Search and Destroy alleviate this somewhat

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 25 Mar 2013, 12:29) *
Mine should be like this:

Light tanks: Hopper, Scorpion, Cheetah.
Medium Tank: Crusader, Battlemaster, Leopard, Rhino.
Heavy Tanks: Kodiak, Paladin.
Super-Heavy Tanks: Sentinel, Overlord, Golem, Manticore.
Tank Destroyers: Marauder, Jagdmamut, Sprut.

I would still push Golem into top tier Heavy, and since the Fully upgraded the Cheetah(currently scorpion) is on par with most medium tanks and even before upgrades is comparable to a Rhino I would still move it up one tier.

I hesitate with the Rhino being a medium, but that probably is right.

Its just that without Reactive Armor it seems much lighter when compared to other Russian tanks....Especially since by the time you grab that power it is probably going against halfway upgraded tanks of other factions

Tank destroyers is causing me the most issues thought since Sprut is very lightly armored and really is lightly armed too( Medium tank gun), whereas Jagdmamut and marauder are very well armed and armored. May be move Sprut into either light tank or ,if it can still carry infantry, into IFV?
QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 25 Mar 2013, 12:29) *
Pandur should be in the IFV list. It isn't as tough as a tank.

I used the Designation IFV for well armed and armored vehicles that could transport. so Pandur really doesn't quite fit tongue.gif

Also use 3-4 Pandurs loaded with either Grenade launchers or Panzerfausts and use them against Hoppers or any of the medium tanks.
Its hard to argue that they don't at least somewhat qualify as Light tank with that loadout

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 25 Mar 2013, 12:29) *
Miska is a scout unit.

Your right. For some reason I thought it transported more than one infantryman

This post has been edited by FalseDead: 25 Mar 2013, 19:17
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Serialkillerwhal...
post 26 Mar 2013, 2:00
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QUOTE
Marauder is more of an SPG rather than a tank.

Actually, it's a Tank Destroyer.

The Golem fits as a Heavy Rather than Superheavy due to a few things.

It's not a one-tank army that can stomp multiple tanks in short time.
It's durable enough to withstand alot of punishment nontheless.
It's slower than usual.
It's feasable to use en-mass without a major economic blow.

Lets compare this to real life.

Sentinel
Large enough to crush most tanks
Serious threat just by itself
Impractical to use en mass due to cost

Golem
Mobile enough for simpler logistics
Not a pants-crapper by itself
practical to use En Mass

Panzer VIII Maus
Large enough to crush most tanks
Serious threat just by itself
Impractical to use en mass due to cost

Tiger II
Mobile enough for simpler logistics
Can be swarmed fairly easily
Practical to be built in large numbers.

This post has been edited by Serialkillerwhale: 26 Mar 2013, 2:05


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X1Destroy
post 26 Mar 2013, 6:38
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It is use to shield your faster Kodiak and BMPs, as well as providing fire support.

It is the only tank that can fight in areas full of Radiation and Toxin. It is the only tank that can soak up Nuke Cannon shell and fight on.

It is alots bigger and heavier than an MBT, so I don't think it should be in the same list.

QUOTE
Medium tank gun


No, Sprut's gun is the same as kodiak's gun.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 26 Mar 2013, 7:08


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MARS
post 26 Mar 2013, 7:01
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QUOTE (Serialkillerwhale @ 26 Mar 2013, 2:00) *
snip


While your overall gist is correct, you should never ever use terms like 'mobile', 'simpler logistics' and 'large numbers' in regard to the Tiger II AKA Koenigstiger. A more appropriate comparison would be the Panther or, if you're feeling generous, the Tiger I.
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SpiralSpectre
post 26 Mar 2013, 7:42
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Someone literally entirely copied Fallout wiki's content on US and some Russian structures. So what to do with these now?

And is it too early to add LOSAT Humvee in Thorn's unit list? It's mentioned in the ini file though.
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MARS
post 26 Mar 2013, 7:49
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There won't be a LOSAT Humvee. That's an obsolete leftover in the files.

Also, general rule for everyone: Do NOT -ever- copy-paste FSDB content onto this Wiki. Their information is largely outdated, we are not affiliated and we absolutely WANT ours to be different.
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X1Destroy
post 26 Mar 2013, 8:11
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QUOTE
There won't be a LOSAT Humvee


Fixed. Didn't know about that.



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Serialkillerwhal...
post 26 Mar 2013, 9:24
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QUOTE
While your overall gist is correct, you should never ever use terms like 'mobile', 'simpler logistics' and 'large numbers' in regard to the Tiger II AKA Koenigstiger. A more appropriate comparison would be the Panther or, if you're feeling generous, the Tiger I.

We're comparing it to the Maus.
The Maus is so godamn hard to build, they were only gonna build 150ish BEFORE the bombing cut the orders.


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SpiralSpectre
post 26 Mar 2013, 13:13
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So how should the roles of the units be classified? By the way they are now (ie Crusader is an MBT) or by this WW2 esque way that got proposed (ie Crusader is a medium tank)?
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MARS
post 26 Mar 2013, 14:48
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It's all fair and dandy to throw around these technical terms in regards to lore but if we're talking functions/roles, we should keep things simple and comprehensible:

Crusader, Leopard, Kodiak, Battlemaster, Scorpion = Main Battle Tank
Paladin, Golem, Marauder = Heavy Tank
Manticore, Sentinel, Overlord = Super-Heavy Tank
Hopper = Light Tank
Jagdmammut = Tank Destroyer
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Serialkillerwhal...
post 26 Mar 2013, 15:13
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Wouldn't the marauder be a Tank Destroyer due to lack of turret?


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MARS
post 26 Mar 2013, 15:39
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In RL terms yes, but unlike the Jagdmammut, it isn't designed to excel at anti-tank combat in its actual gameplay role. It may have a static turret, but overall, it's really just a mobile gun to bolster your standard GLA attack force.
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SpiralSpectre
post 26 Mar 2013, 16:45
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The way I see it the Marauder probably counts as an assault gun more than anything else. It doesn't have the range of a tank destroyer or turret of real tanks.

Anyway isn't Marauder scheduled for one hell of a makeover in the future? Maybe there is no need to pinpoint the role of a unit that's gonna be changed eventually. smile.gif
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X1Destroy
post 26 Mar 2013, 18:20
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I think it will have a better model, and nothing more for the sake of original.

GLA is the complete opposite of Russia, for they only use 2 tanks. And only 1 of them is available without the need of a GP.

Funny thing is that it isn't a heavy tank even if it's been classified as 1. Without turret and crappy armor plus weak firepower as start unlike Jagdmamut, it is not good for fighting enemy tanks head on like scorpions with rockets.

To make matter worse, it will be exculsive to Warlord. And that's mean the others only have 1 kind of tank, and it's a light tank.......

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 26 Mar 2013, 18:23


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SpiralSpectre
post 26 Mar 2013, 19:13
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 26 Mar 2013, 23:20) *
To make matter worse, it will be exculsive to Warlord. And that's mean the others only have 1 kind of tank, and it's a light tank.......

It's way too early to say that mate.

And I am pretty sure it was said that the Marauder will get a significant rework and not only some cosmetic change. Something that makes it worthy of being a gen exclusive unit.

Ofc obviously GLA are the opposite of Russia. One is all about brute force, the other are the sneaky guys.
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Karpet
post 26 Mar 2013, 20:30
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My list :

Light Tanks : Hoppers, Scorpions
Medium Tanks : Crusaders, ?Battlemaster?
MBTs : Kodiak, ?Battlemaster?, Leopard, Paladin
Heavy Tank : Golem
Super-Heavy Tank : Manticore, Sentinel, Overlord

Jagdmammut seems like an assault gun AND a tank destroyer. Marauder is more like an assault gun.

IFV : Bradley, BMP-3, BMD-3, Pandur
APCs : Lynx, Battlebus, Troop Crawler
Anti-Infantry Tanks : Toxin Tractor, Tesla Tank, Dragon Tank, Microwave Tank, ?Buratino?


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TheCeLL
post 26 Mar 2013, 21:12
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IMO the Marauder is neither a Heavy Tank, nor a Tank Destroyer. Its rather light for a heavy tank/ tank destroyer, but it has no turret. therefore, I would classify it as an Assault Gun. Similar to the German Stumgeschutz in World War II

Also, I would classify the Crusader as a light or cavalry tank, and the Paladin as a Main Battle Tank. The Hopper is a Tankette, which is essentially, a minitank.
So my list goes kinda like -

Tankettes - Hopper
Cavalry tanks - Crusader, Scorpion
Assault Guns - Marauder
MBTs - Paladin, Battlemaster, Kodiak, Rhino, Leopard
Heavy Tanks - Golem
Tank Destroyers - Jagdmammutt
Super Heavy Tanks - Sentinel, Overlord, Manticore

But my list might be a bit too technical.

This post has been edited by InsurgentCell: 26 Mar 2013, 21:14


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re_simeone
post 26 Mar 2013, 21:30
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Marauder looks like something that posses more civilian vehicles parts than military ones.
Its fixed turret makes it even more a one improvised combat vehicle,since making rotating turret would
require lot more effort from GLA underground chop-shop "engineers".
And although little bulky by its appearance,it is clearly not a heavy vehicle . . . Maybe medium.
You forgot to include BRDM-1 armed with AT Rockets from Russian GP,and VDVs Sprut-SD in list of Tank Destroyers.
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X1Destroy
post 27 Mar 2013, 5:25
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The BRDM should be in the same class as rocket buggy, I think.



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re_simeone
post 27 Mar 2013, 10:42
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 27 Mar 2013, 5:25) *
The BRDM should be in the same class as rocket buggy, I think.

Well version ingame is based after RL Tank Destroyer,AT3 Sagger (9K11) BRDM-1. . .
And as for buggy . . . Well it is siege unit,same as for example . . . Well Mole Minelayer,although Mole is a Multitask unit,
since it can place all kinds of mines,and clear the same,but it is at same time siege unit.
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