The most laughably bad alternate history scenario, Hitler wins, as presented by Spike TV Options

[MARS]

Watch and despair

Okay, I don't even know where to start, so I'll just drop a few lines whenever something really stupid occurs in this utter mess of a timeline.

00:38 - Okay, so we're going in medias res here. Nazis rule the US and people wearing a yellow star on their clothes - which was used by the nazis to mark Jews - try to escape into Mexico when a nazi border patrol shows up and guns them down. Here's the first problem: If Jews are considered 'undesirables' in Nazi America, why try to stop them from LEAVING the country? The 'final solution', i.e. the decision to industrially murder all the people that were held in nazi camps was actually implemented as late as 1942. Semi-organised mass executions have taken place since the beginning of the war, but until this particular point in time, the nazis actually had the idea that driving these people out of the country via social stigmatisation, repression and threats would be sufficient which can be proven by the fact that most of Germany's Jewish population in 1933 - the year Hitler came to power - which measured around 750.000 individuals at the time had already left the country when the war began in 1939, leaving about 200.000 people behind. Also, I'd call it highly unlikely that there'd be any large numbers of 'undesirables' left after 70 years of annexation, occupation and social engineering.

Then there's the soldiers using G36c carbines which may or may not be unlikely considering how Heckler & Koch was founded in 1949 from what used to be Mauser which, if it had remained fully intact, might have followed other design philosophies. But what's even more irritating is that the SS-guy coming out of the car is wearing the iconic black leather coat...A thick, heavy-as-hell leather coat, seemingly unaffected by 70 years of changing fashions, in an area where it's probably really fucking hot during the day.

01:50 - Why would an occupied USA have their own president? And more importantly, why would they be able to keep their own flag albeit with a swastika where the stars used to be? Nazi-puppet states like Vichy France had their own puppet governments but they did NOT adopt large parts of nazi culture or symbolism because the entire POINT of creating a puppet state is to create the false illusion that the nation is still independant when in reality it is not. Thus, nazi-occupied America would either keep using the original US flag to keep up the illusion of independence OR, if the nazis don't care about the illusion, adopt the official Blutfahne.

02:30 - Again, this raises the question as to how many blacks, homosexuals and Jews would be left after 70 years of occupation and social engineering!

02:53 - Why does the president announce that he's proud to be their new Führer? 'Führer', which is a German word for leader, was Hitler's personal title as head of the nazi party. At the same time, he was the Reichskanzler, i.e. head of the German government, thus always being referred to as 'Führer und Reichskanzler'. It's very unlikely that the title of Führer would be given to a non-German - such as an American president - in this scenario. Nazi ideology also dictates that there can only be ONE Führer, so trying to explain this by having multiple Führers for all the different occupied countries wouldn't make any sense. It'd be a decentralisation of power which goes very much against the idea of the Führerprinzip.

03:14 - Here we got our first expert, a USMC NCO and while I'm not wishing any offence to the man and his service, I gotta say that there wouldn't be such a public perception of being under terrible rule as he claims there would be. The sad truth is that the nazis gained so much favour in Germany before the war because they gave people the impression that things were getting done; the impression of low crime rates, secure workplaces, good standards of living and national glory. Cynically put, as long as people weren't Jewish, homosexual or politically opposed to nazi rule, they were living under the illusion that life wasn't all that bad, especially compared to pre-1933 Germany which was politically instable and poverty-ridden. As long as the government keeps the people well-fed, wealthy and entertained, there wouldn't be much perceived tyranny, again, after 70 years of social engineering among the population.

He does, however, raise a fair point by mentioning the soviet bloc, if for a different reason: A victorious Third Reich would eventually collapse just like the Soviet Union because they wouldn't be able to keep the economy going well forever. Nazi Germany was actually on the verge of bankruptcy for most of the time. Re-arming the military, operating half a dozen rivalling security agencies, widespread bureaucracy, expensive building projects and spending lots of cash on keeping people satisfied put a major burden on their economy which, at some point, could only be kept alive through perpetual conquest of other nations and the subjugation of their workforce. If anything, a revolution to overthrow such a regime wouldn't start in Germany itself OR any occupied population that's reaping the benefits; it would start with those who are actually being oppressed, i.e. the workforce, which is something the show will be dealing with in a bit, albeit completely wrong.

03:45 - Now we're actually getting to the point where the Germans 'win' WW2. When and how do they accomplish that? At the most unlikely point of divergence imaginable: D-Day, 1944! The Normandy invasion gets repelled by the Messerschmitt ME-262, one of the earliest jet fighters ever conceived. The problems with this turn of events are several. One: in 1944, the Soviet Union, which actually put the most hurt on Nazi Germany's war effort, had almost reached the German mainland with no intention to stop. At this point in time, it was merely a matter of how much of Germany they'd be taking and how much would be left to the western allies. Secondly, the ME-262 was, for all intents and purposes, useless. It had several design flaws and the few planes that were actually built where made from inferior materials due to the increasingly desperate supply situation at the time. The engine was unreliable and had to be replaced after mere hours of continued operation and training pilots on what was essentially an entirely new technology wasn't particularly easy. Third, there was no way the allies would have launched the Normandy invasion without absolute air superiority. At this point, the Luftwaffe was literally unable to do much of anything. The one thing that could have made a difference to stop at least parts of the invasion where actually the Panzer divisions which didn't show up on June 6 because Hitler had personally ordered to withhold them as he was expecting the 'actual' invasion to hit France at Calais, where the trip across the channel would be the shortest. Bottom line: Even if the Germans had somehow 'won' D-Day, it wouldn't have mattered in the grand scheme of things. For what it's worth, it might have bought an extra few months and let the Soviets shake hands with allied soldiers at the French-German border!

05:18 - Hitler never actually had any clear plans for the US. If anything, he acknowledged that conquering them would be something he wouldn't be able to see in his lifetime and some random anecdote about Russian soldiers finding a globe with a swastika painted over 'the continent of the United States' really isn't sufficient to prove anything.

05:53 - Fast-forward to June 1945. Berlin, Hamburg and Cologne have been wiped out by American nuclear bombs and the Soviet Union has grown all the way past the Rhine. Oh no, scratch that: Hitler's still alive and kicking and the nazis took a deep collective breath after the US and Commonwealth troops in Italy as well as the millions of Soviet soldiers near the German-Polish border magically disappeared into another dimension. Now Germany's suddenly able to send two U-boats to the American east coast and launch V-2 rockets at New York and Boston. Again, the V-2, even more so than the ME-262, was a piece of junk. Suffering from bad materials and various design flaws, it exploded on the launch pad more often than not, was notoriously inaccurate, burned ridiculous amounts of fuel despite its relatively small payload and killed more slave workers who were building these things than people in actual cities.

06:09 - I know that this must be getting repetitive, but the German nuclear weapons program was nowhere near anything resembling a functioning nuclear fission bomb. The research team was badly equipped, constantly argued among itself, suffered some enormous brain drain due to all the Jewish/politically hostile scientists having left the country years ago and followed the wrong lead which actually took their research to a dead-end. Also, Hitler himself did not actually see that much potential in nuclear weapons, thinking they wouldn't be much different from chemical weapons which he despised. Thus, he rather blew his money on 50 different jet-fighters, jet-powered trans-atlantic bombers, land battleships amphibious flamethrower tanks and armored subterranean battle trains...No, really.

Also, what happened to the much more advanced Manhattan Project in this scenario? And why would the destruction of two major US cities - which would be the FIRST large-scale 'bombing attack' on American soil during the entire war! - immediately put the country out of the race for good? Unlike Germany or Japan, the US at this point HADN'T been fire-bombed to hell and back, with most of their infrastructure and industrial power destroyed and at the brink of total collapse. Why would they surrender so easily!?

07:25 - lol @ hilariously bad Hitler double. With the unconditional surrender of the US, the second world war officially ends. After all, the Russians, the British and the entire Commonwealth got magically warped out of existence around the time D-Day failed...

09:10 - That's another one of these horrible myths; that it was pretty much technology alone that won the war. Sure, having better weapons than the other guys is important, but at the end of the day, Germany was defeated simply because its industry, economy and society were no longer able to keep up the war effort. They were being out-produced, out-manned and out-gunned and didn't lose because the allies all had the better tech. Inversely, Germany couldn't have won if it had better technology because the ENTIRE REST OF THE WORLD would still be able to outnumber it until it's bled dry.

09:33 - Now we learn that Nazi America would become a global industrial superpower...Through slave labour! Because as we all know, forced labour yields great results! It's not like, I don't know, people being forced to work usually do an intentionally piss-poor job at making your weapons, equipment etc. because that's the only way they can hurt you back or anything. Or the fact the Deutsche Arbeitsfront, Nazi Germany's only existing trade union, was very much against slave labour - but accepted it as a necessity for the duration of the war effort - because every 'job' done by a slave was one job that wasn't being done by one of their supporters, i.e. a member of their own powerbase.

10:42 - Now we're getting back to the 'final solution' which, according to a 'political commentator' would be extended to include latinos and blacks, two groups which were very much ignored by nazi policy. Unlike Jews which were considered enemies of the state, these groups were considered to be 'inferior' but at the same time mostly harmless. One black man was actually allowed into the Hitler Jugend and fought for the Wehrmacht and the infamous Waffen-SS even had distinct units for non-Germans up to and including Muslims and Indians.

Also, if slaves are literally being worked to death, while those 'undesirables' who can't/won't work are being executed, how do they expect to keep this system going on forever? What are they gonna do when they 'run out' of undesirables for their work camps? If you build your entire economy on enslaving minorities, you do NOT actively hunt and exterminate these minorities at the same time! Who the hell wrote this crap!?

12:16 - Okay...a badly doubled, grey-haired 1950's Hitler accompanied by what may or may not be Marrilyn Monroe puts his hands on the Walk Of Fame...And then the throws a baseball like a little girl...
Also, is it just me, or is this 'great depletion of quality players in sports' quite possibly the LEAST of our problems in a hypothetical nazi-dominated world?

14:63 - Now they're just being silly...Facebook becomes Fascpage, Google becomes Goebbel and Wikipedia turns into a Nazi Almanac (is that the best 'pun' they could come up with? 'Nazipedia' didn't cross their minds?). And then the show starts banging on about how it's gonna be THE INTERNET of all things that will eventually lead to the nazi's downfall, because apparently, we're seeing the same thing in the Arab world right now. Nevermind the fact that only a fraction of their population actually has access to the likes of Twitter or Facebook and that most of these so-called 'Internet revolutions' are being presented that way by our media because that way, the West can take credit for what's going on in these countries because 'we invented the technology that's giving them freedom'.

15:52 - Say what you will about Chinas internal policies, but using THEM as a RL example while imagining a ridiculous nazi-dystopia is just plain despicible.

19:00 - "[about the Egyptian army not firing on their own people] Nazis wouldn't have that problem. Germans didn't have any problem killing their own people[...]" GOOD JOB drawing literally NO distinction between Germans and nazis, Mr. random film critic whatever the fuck you're doing on this show!

20:00 - I will not be tempted to make a mean-spirited comment about Vietnam or Afghanistan at this point.

So, that's pretty much all there is to say about this pseudo-historical shitstorm...And if THAT's their vision of a nazi-victory timeline, I do not even WANT to see what else they're gonna do on this show.

[GuardianTempest]

That was absurd. At least I feel slightly inclined to the GLA.

Also, because the Americans back then were like 'wtf haxX0r' when they see the nukes, thus rendering them afraid since the fiery death might come to their doorstep. But that's just my perspective.

[Shiro]

Your caption is the truth. On the topic of "Nazis winning WWII" I'd present you Fatherland instead, which goes on the whole thing more realistically (though the movie makes the winning situation based on winning D-Day as opposed to the book where it's a bunch of much more sensial decisions (from a modern military perspective)).
Regardless, this is probably the greatest bullshit I ever watched.
11:24: "blablabla just like in Germany American Death Camps were the most highly guarded secret blabla": Bullshit. Slave Camps and Death Camps were NOT secrets at all. They were usually near medium sized cities (though Death Camps were only on "non-German" ground) to make the transportation of political enemies etc easier and most of them shared names with a near city. In some cases they didnt and in at least one case which I have personally visited on a school trip it was renamed to not OFFEND the residents of the city by their city being named the same way due to the "dirty prisoners" over there.

This post has been edited by SorataZ: 3 Sep 2011, 10:33

[Overdose]

That american soldier guy talking about the resistance at the end was extremely ironical.

Doesn't that remind you of the War on Terror a little? Except the roles are reversed obviously.

And Vietnam too.