Rise of the Reds Update: Tunnel Rats Options

[Cobretti]

I bought Gens originally in 2004/5 and the deluxe edition in 2006/2007 (not sure on exact dates). My scanner currently has some problems but I'll have to scan in the pages I'm talking about when I get the problem resolved, hopefully sooner rather than later. As for the dates issue, I remember EA mentioning something recently about Generals being an alternate timeline, thus neatly sidestepping any divergences between real life history and that in the game.

[Raven]

Awesome update and I missed it again on release day!!!! Really like the new building although they look a bit similar.

[MARS]

Well, they are all based on the Sneak Attack tunnel, which is completely intentional since the SA tunnel can be upgraded into any one of these structures.

[Cobretti]

I have the German Deluxe edition and the dates about Emperors starting production in 2019 are in there. It's probably best to simply trust The_Hunter as usual and take his words to heart. I'm also fairly sure some of the dates were changed because the Mudanjiang desaster and others didn't happen then. I'd presume you bought your edition pre-2007 while I bought mine in 2007/2008.

Tought of the day - the Emperor protects, The_Hunter knows all.

FWIW, I did some research and found that in early press releases for Generals a concrete "2020" or "twenty years in the future" date was given. Later ones (as well as the blurb in the manual/back of the box) just state "the near future." Also note that early concept art and the alpha build for Generals depicted fictional, futuristic looking units and structures, particularly for the US, instead of the ones that were actually portrayed in the final build of the game.

[MARS]

Early concept arts also had some really odd stuff like camel riders, war elephants, mutant soldiers and what seemed like some sort of neo-Mongolian khan faction. But yeah, we're also going for the "Gens/ZH in 2020s" premise
due to the fact that it's a bit of an artefact from the earliest alpha/beta versions of the original game to which RotR pays some deliberate tributes, such as the in-game general selection or the American and Chinese generals.

[GeneralCamo]

The conflict should not be set in 2040 though. If it is, I want to see a particle projection rifle in the game. I would go with 2034.

[Massey]

The conflict should not be set in 2040 though. If it is, I want to see a particle projection rifle in the game. I would go with 2034.

In the end the year doesnt really matter... as long as its close to now..ish not 2359! As for the Particle projection rifles... the world (not just Europe) just went though a very long war and for the most part rebuilding or just finsh rebuilding... Super high tec like Yuri's UFO's or those rifles are unlikly IMO.

but a question for the RotR team.... (apart from the Utube one) um...
Did u guys take out the GLA from the game to start with, with the plan to over hale the GLA or was it that the GLA got a over hale plan down the track or later in the process?



This post has been edited by Massey: 23 Mar 2012, 21:51

[Cobretti]

The GLA was always intended to be in the mod, it's just that the team decided to work on Russia, China, and the USA first.

Regarding technology, a major war would increase the rate of development of military technology, just look at the huge leap in weapons tech and tactics from 1914 to 1918. In any event, RotR takes place some 15-20 years after the GLA conflict.

[GeneralCamo]

An economic crash, on the other hand, would decrease research. You might want to put in an economic crash somewhere in the story line.

[MARS]

Don't worry, it's in there. In fact, you could say that the collapse of the western economies and the rise of BR(I)C nations is a bit of a golden thread running through our timeline. And yes, military research has been largely stalled due to the economic situation. Also, people keep throwing terms like 'rebuilding' around, and I should probably clarify that this is not to be understood as literal WW2-style reconstruction efforts. It's not like the GLA laid waste to literally every city of continental Europe (we will dedicate a future update solely to the purpose of making sense of their supposed 'invasion' of Europe later). What does happen however is that the global economy gets utterly crippled due to the loss of certain high-value targets and once we unfold the story further, you will learn that Europe is already in very bad shape as it is BEFORE the GLA attacked.

Now, with the West in decline and countries like Russia and China growing prosperous, the lack of super-futuristic weapons like particle rifles can still be explained: The US are simply too broke, having to keep old vehicles like Paladins and Humvees in service and upgrading them while pretty much the entire arsenal of Gens. Townes and Alexander got rationalised, the ECA, while having a rather brand-new military, prefers to invest in sophisticated, but fundamentally basic concepts as opposed to 'blue sky research' whereas Russia and China used their newfound wealth to modernise their -entire- -large- army to the point where, for example, EVERY Russian MBT is a Kodiak and every Chinese Battlemaster comes with (purely visual) ERA by default. Now, this is obviously something that can't be reflected very well in game, but the 'mix and match' style of their current RL militaries, with tons of different vehicles from different decades, will be GONE. Russia will no longer be using old T-72 in the same sense as the US who don't keep friggin' Patton tanks in their arsenal anymore either. Also, do bear in mind that the conflicts that happened between ZH and RotR are not the sort of conflicts that facilitate large leaps in military research; they mostly boiled down to 1.) first world nations attacking countries in Africa, 2.) first world nations fighting insurgencies in Africa and 3.) first world nations engaging in short-lived, low-profile conflicts with eachother. Now, the actual Russo-European War, that's the kind of cataclysm that could, depending on how long it goes on, produce some tangible developments...

[SpiralSpectre]

Don't worry, it's in there. In fact, you could say that the collapse of the western economies and the rise of BR(I)C nations is a bit of a golden thread running through our timeline. And yes, military research has been largely stalled due to the economic situation. Also, people keep throwing terms like 'rebuilding' around, and I should probably clarify that this is not to be understood as literal WW2-style reconstruction efforts. It's not like the GLA laid waste to literally every city of continental Europe (we will dedicate a future update solely to the purpose of making sense of their supposed 'invasion' of Europe later). What does happen however is that the global economy gets utterly crippled due to the loss of certain high-value targets and once we unfold the story further, you will learn that Europe is already in very bad shape as it is BEFORE the GLA attacked.

About BRIC - I thought that in RotR world B was already pretty much a vassal state to R and we've never seen any mention of I anywhere. C has seen boom since the start of generals. So in other words, doesn't these make R the only one who really entered a new golden age during the RotR timeline?

It would be a relief to know that Europe was in a pretty bad shape before the GLA attacked. Europe was practically the damsel in distress back in original ZH, got beaten up by a WW2 weapon using side while needing US and China to protect them before and during the conflict respectively. Saying that Europe was in a pretty bad shape before the GLA attacked would make ZH's story seem a bit less ridiculous.

Now, with the West in decline and countries like Russia and China growing prosperous, the lack of super-futuristic weapons like particle rifles can still be explained: The US are simply too broke, having to keep old vehicles like Paladins and Humvees in service while upgrading them while the pretty much the entire arsenal of Gens. Townes and Alexander got rationalised, the ECA, while having a rather brand-new military, prefers to invest in sophisticated, but fundamentally basic concepts as opposed to 'blue sky research' whereas Russia and China used their newfound wealth to modernise their -entire- -large- army to the point where, for example, EVERY Russian MBT is a Kodiak and every Chinese Battlemaster comes with (purely visual) ERA by default.

Explaining RotR military would be a bit difficult. Like in RotR US uses the Nighthawk which was supposed to have retired before the generals timeline. Than again the lore can always say that the RotR Nighthawk is actually Nighthawk MK-II/III and is way superior to it's predecessor in every aspect but looks the same.

But at least I personally believe the military of the major factions don't need to be explained. The way I see it - in the original generals/ZH (thus in RotR), military units are rather used to reflect a parody/satire of the political/economic/moral policies, views, ideology etc that their respected nations adopt in RL. They were never meant to be "realistic" in military sense, but at the same time are quite realistic in political/economic sense.

For example the Chinese have crappy but cheap, mass produced Battlemasters. IMO this isn't meant to reflect RL China's military, it's rather meant to Reflect the "made in China" brand that has become so influential worldwide (specially in developing countries), even more in the market of electronics. Like "China" cell phones are cheap and utterly unreliable and don't last long, just like those Battlemasters.

[MARS]

About the BRIC-bit, I was mainly using it as a tangible, RL-term of distinction between the 'old' and the (possible) 'new' powers. As for Brazil, it's not a vassal but a self-governed, sovereign ally of Russia along with the rest of the in-universe South American Union. They formed the union on their own initiative and asked Russia for support when the rebel problem got out of hand. Russia helped them out and was rewarded with resource deals and what a Total War game would call 'indefinite military access', but they didn't 'submit' to their will, which is reflected by the fact that the SAU does not take part in any of Russia's military adventures. As for India, it indeed hasn't been mentioned in our storyline (yet), which I acknowledged by putting it in brackets. Lastly, China is indeed in a good economic position right off the bat in Generals, which is an extension of its current RL economic boom but it was the events of Gens and ZH that acted as the real catalyst on their way to becoming a 'real' first world superpower: They may have had a powerful economy but their struggle against the GLA gave them a reason to develop what today's China doesn't have yet and which sets it apart from the US: The ability to project extensive military force way beyond their own homeland, an ability they obviously have attained around the time they pacify GLA-occupied cities in Germany at the end of ZH.

[Cobretti]

Don't worry, it's in there. In fact, you could say that the collapse of the western economies and the rise of BR(I)C nations is a bit of a golden thread running through our timeline. And yes, military research has been largely stalled due to the economic situation. Also, people keep throwing terms like 'rebuilding' around, and I should probably clarify that this is not to be understood as literal WW2-style reconstruction efforts. It's not like the GLA laid waste to literally every city of continental Europe (we will dedicate a future update solely to the purpose of making sense of their supposed 'invasion' of Europe later).

Hm, I've sorta viewed the GLA campaign in Zero Hour as an event similar to the Vietnam War or the Beirut bombing; the GLA would have no chance of defeating the US armed forces or the PLA on the battlefield, but a few high-profile raids (the sinking of the carrier and the assault on the CENTCOM headquarters in Germany) effectively destroyed the political will to continue the fight. See the Tet Offensive for an example; major victory for the US militarily (the North Vietnamese failed to take any ground and the Viet Cong was wiped out) but a hostile US media made it look like a defeat and turned US public opinion against the war - which was what the North Vietnamese were hoping for the whole time. As for Europe, it's very likely that the GLA could have enlisted aid among the growing Muslim population in Europe (implied that they did in the last mission where you can get reinforcements from towns across the map and have caused significant civil unrest. Add to the fact that western European nations are heavily reliant on the US for defense (see Libya) and you have a recipe for problems. Additionally, there was the fact that the GLA launched a missile from Baikonur at a European city.

I'd also think that China would have suffered significant economic damage in the wake of the war, what with the nuking of Beijing, chemical warfare attacks on Hong Kong, and most significantly, the destruction of the Three Gorges Dam (China's main source of electricity, not to mention destroying it would flood several Chinese cities, including China's economic center Shanghai). Taking out the Three Gorges Dam would be a huge death blow to the Chinese economy.

Now, with the West in decline and countries like Russia and China growing prosperous, the lack of super-futuristic weapons like particle rifles can still be explained: The US are simply too broke, having to keep old vehicles like Paladins and Humvees in service while upgrading them while the pretty much the entire arsenal of Gens. Townes and Alexander got rationalised, the ECA, while having a rather brand-new military, prefers to invest in sophisticated, but fundamentally basic concepts as opposed to 'blue sky research' whereas Russia and China used their newfound wealth to modernise their -entire- -large- army to the point where, for example, EVERY Russian MBT is a Kodiak and every Chinese Battlemaster comes with (purely visual) ERA by default. Now, this is obviously something that can't be reflected very well in game, but the 'mix and match' style of their current RL militaries, with tons of different vehicles from different decades, will be GONE. Russia will no longer be using old T-72 in the same sense as the US who don't keep friggin' Patton tanks in their arsenal anymore either. Also, do bear in mind that the conflicts that happened between ZH and RotR are not the sort of conflicts that facilitate large leaps in military research; they mostly boiled down to 1.) first world nations attacking countries in Africa, 2.) first world nations fighting insurgencies in Africa and 3.) first world nations engaging in short-lived, low-profile conflicts with eachother. Now, the actual Russo-European War, that's the kind of cataclysm that could, depending on how long it goes on, produce some tangible developments...

Decline seems like a harsh word to use...more like the world is becoming multipolar. It sounds like the opening of African resources caused a global economic boom in the decade before the Russo-European conflict. The lack of personal laser weapons and so on can be explained easily; I'd say that laser weapons were too expensive and maintenance intensive to make general issue, mainly finding a niche in certain units, such as air defense and anti-ballistic missile weaponry. Aircraft and warships (maybe special forces units) could have extensive laser weaponry, but you won't see the average US grunt in the 2030's armed with a laser rifle, at least not at this time. Stuff like the Paladins (not that old/obsolescent by the time RotR takes place), Nighthawks, and Humvees can be handwaved easily; they represent advanced versions of said weapons, like rather than the Humvee we know and love it's actually a JLTV that resembles the old Humvee. I just pretend the Nighthawk is a F-35 or something like that, but that's just me

[Dangerman]

Is India's absecence "story-wise" so far going to be explained lore-wise? Since India's is having growth as well I'd imagine something catastrophic occured in India that screwed their economy and caused most of the population to die or something along the lines of that.

[MARS]

Krieger's guess is already quite accurate. It's not like the GLA literally managed to launch a cross-border WW2 style invasion of an entire continent. In fact, the only battles we see do take place in Germany and we could handwave most of it as a large scale infiltration/insurrection. The biggest thing they could do would be to occupy Hamburg (where the last Chinese mission in ZH takes place), hold the city hostage and use the harbour facilities to bring in some of their heavier weaponry via cargo ships from pro-GLA countries (who would consequently blow their cover by aligning themselves with the GLA so openly). There's no way they can sustain the 'invasion' and literally 'occupy' Europe like Germany did in WW2. It basically boils down to them sweeping across vulnerable, civilian areas like a ravaging horde, causing as much damage as possible. And like I said, the EU is already weakened way before that even happens; their situation will be best described as an extrapolation of current problems: Failing economic policies, unlegitimised centralisation to the point of causing national/regional seperatism and an air of misguided pacifism coupled with a false idea of moral superiority that alienates their US allies. Also, let's keep in mind that this isn't the Cold War: The US don't have massive armies of tanks stationed to 'protect' continental Europe. What's left of their bases nowadays (and in ZH) will be airbases, command centres and logistical hubs that shouldn't be too hard to overwhelm for a GLA that somehow manages to smuggle tanks and Scud missiles into the continent. The EU calling upon the Chinese to bail them out is likely their last desperate attempt to somehow end this quagmire quickly without having to get their own hands dirty cos they're too 'enlightened' and 'peaceful' for this sort of thing. This is part of the reason why the ECA is NOT an evolution of this hypothetical EU, but a straight-up reboot from scratch. Their self-perception will be quite different.

[SpiralSpectre]

It's probably confirmed that no nation openly supported the GLA by sending them heavier weaponry in Hamburg via cargo ships. For starting GLA didn't have naval supremacy and those ships would get intercepted before reaching Hamburg, so their allies would be blowing up their cover for nothing.

The GLA held their own. Their "conquest" reached the point where they were building monuments across central Europe. They wouldn't do that if they were conducting raids and stuff.

And I understand EU loving to view themselves as morally superior but inviting in China even before getting their own hands dirty seems a bit odd. It's not like they were unaware of the possible long lasting economic and political consequences of allowing China in Europe.

I'd also think that China would have suffered significant economic damage in the wake of the war, what with the nuking of Beijing, chemical warfare attacks on Hong Kong, and most significantly, the destruction of the Three Gorges Dam (China's main source of electricity, not to mention destroying it would flood several Chinese cities, including China's economic center Shanghai). Taking out the Three Gorges Dam would be a huge death blow to the Chinese economy.

Almost all of China's big casualties took place before the US campaign in generals and by the time of the Chinese campaign in ZH they were strong enough to do something they never did before - they sent extensive military force beyond their own continent. So IMO China (perhaps miraculously) almost fully recovered from whatever GLA managed to inflict on them during the generals campaign.

Is India's absecence "story-wise" so far going to be explained lore-wise? Since India's is having growth as well I'd imagine something catastrophic occured in India that screwed their economy and caused most of the population to die or something along the lines of that.

Why would you imagine something catastrophic occurred in India since India is having growth? That doesn't exactly add up.

Or are you saying India had growth so they must have a role in the conflict and since they don't have one (yet), that means something must have screwed up their economy so they can't? But maybe they just decided to stay neutral for the time being since the Euro conflict is quite far away. After all active global players like China and US are yet to make a move about the Euro conflict.

Anyway most of the population dying sounds too creepy... hopefully the RotR lore wouldn't have something creepy like that.

TBH the most realistic explanation of catastrophe would be that global warming has finally claimed most of the southern and Eastern part of the Sub-Continent and now they're dealing with that. But that's scheduled for sometime after the RotR conflict. Yes I said "scheduled" as I am afraid right now that seems inevitable from RL PoV, but that's another topic.

[MARS]

It's probably confirmed that no nation openly supported the GLA by sending them heavier weaponry in Hamburg via cargo ships. For starting GLA didn't have naval supremacy and those ships would get intercepted before reaching Hamburg, so their allies would be blowing up their cover for nothing.

The GLA held their own. Their "conquest" reached the point where they were building monuments across central Europe. They wouldn't do that if they were conducting raids and stuff.

And I understand EU loving to view themselves as morally superior but inviting in China even before getting their own hands dirty seems a bit odd. It's not like they were unaware of the possible long lasting economic and political consequences of allowing China in Europe.

They wouldn't need any naval supremacy if the cargo is on civilian ships coming from North Africa. Sure, still a bit of a stretch but for one, it doesn't directly contradict what little canon there is and secondly, it still seems likelier than the GLA mounting an armoured over-land offensive through Turkey, the Balkans and Eastern Europe before they finally reach Germany. No, they would have to rely on local supporters, sleeper cells and a fast make-or-break delivery of all their heavy weapons the moment they control a port facility. The timing would have to be perfect, but then again, this is supposed to be an insane military gambit that goes down in history, right? The sort of thing that would be deemed impossible before it actually happens in-universe.

As for the monuments, they weren't all that sophisticated, and let's be real here: The average rank-and-file GLA grunt probably went into this operation thinking that occupation was the goal - or actually possible to begin with - or that they would go down fighting killing as many people as possible. To them it was going to be the 21st century equivalent to the siege of Vienna or the battle of Tours, except victorious this time around. In this context, setting up these small statues is a part of psychological warfare; to humiliate the people whose land you have allegedly 'occupied'; plus, the GLA is just that crazy, apparently. Also, we're all putting a lot more thoughts into this than EA, who never intended this thing to make sense. Their premise was to have crypto-Islamic terrorists occupying Europe, logic and feasibility be damned, and now it's up to us to make some sense of this whole mess. Tis the best we got without utterly retconning everything.

Lastly, the EU countries would probably still use their own militaries to do their best at containing the GLA but as it stands, they might just lack the sheer tenacity and ferociousness necessary to just rush into the cities, guns blazing and do what's necessary to stop the lunatics that employ suicide bombers and hose people down with acid sprayers. Actually, since the game only depicts GLA 'occupations' in Germany, a point could probably be made that only the German military (currently about 200.000 active troops strong, most of which would be caught with their pants down if attacked on home soil) would be directly involved whereas the other EU countries put their forces on full alert to guard their own cities in the event that something similar might happen in their countries as well. They wouldn't directly intervene for fear of leaving their own countries exposed but the mere fact that there's massacres going on in central Europe and the very real possibility of GLA Scud and Anthrax attacks on other cities might be enough to paralyse the continent and utterly wreck the economy. Goes to show how solidly united this EU would actually be once the chips are down in this scenario.

As for India: We simply haven't thought of anything for them (yet). They'd probably just remain neutral and sit this one out while economically competing with China.

[SpiralSpectre]

plus, the GLA is just that crazy, apparently. Also, we're all putting a lot more thoughts into this than EA, who never intended this thing to make sense. Their premise was to have crypto-Islamic terrorists occupying Europe, logic and feasibility be damned, and now it's up to us to make some sense of this whole mess. Tis the best we got without utterly retconning everything.

Totally summed up the whole deal better than I ever could.

EA never intended this deal to make sense. IMO they only intended to make some quick profit by capitalizing on the "war against terrorism" that started back then. Also explains why they were so sloppy at developing ZH. We're talking about a game that's engine is said to be held by duct tape. It's obvious how much attention the lore and story got from developers who were so indifferent about actual gameplay.

Lastly, the EU countries would probably still use their own militaries to do their best at containing the GLA but as it stands, they might just lack the sheer tenacity and ferociousness necessary to just rush into the cities, guns blazing and do what's necessary to stop the lunatics that employ suicide bombers and hose people down with acid sprayers. Actually, since the game only depicts GLA 'occupations' in Germany, a point could probably be made that only the German military (currently about 200.000 active troops strong, most of which would be caught with their pants down if attacked on home soil) would be directly involved whereas the other EU countries put their forces on full alert to guard their own cities in the event that something similar might happen in their countries as well. They wouldn't directly intervene for fear of leaving their own countries exposed but the mere fact that there's massacres going on in central Europe and the very real possibility of GLA Scud and Anthrax attacks on other cities might be enough to paralyse the continent and utterly wreck the economy. Goes to show how solidly united this EU would actually be once the chips are down in this scenario.

That does make sense if you put it that way. Then ZH EU sure had some interesting solidarity.

As for India: We simply haven't thought of anything for them (yet). They'd probably just remain neutral and sit this one out while economically competing with China.

Amen to that. No killing off almost one billion people. ;_;

[Dangerman]

Or are you saying India had growth so they must have a role in the conflict and since they don't have one (yet), that means something must have screwed up their economy so they can't? But maybe they just decided to stay neutral for the time being since the Euro conflict is quite far away. After all active global players like China and US are yet to make a move about the Euro conflict.

That's what I more meant on the lines of but the thing is that South America has been covered slightly but India hasn't, just feels werid to me.

EDIT: Ok, it doesn't need to be some werid disaster that Alien Space Bats magically caused, maybe some other mundane reason could be made.

This post has been edited by dangerman1337: 24 Mar 2012, 19:29

[MARS]

South America was mentioned in-detail mostly due to the fact that most, if not all of our lore was originally made by Overdose, who is from Brazil and thus decided to add a local flavour to what would otherwise have been rather Western-centric.

[Massey]

They wouldn't need any naval supremacy if the cargo is on civilian ships coming from North Africa. Sure, still a bit of a stretch but for one, it doesn't directly contradict what little canon there is and secondly, it still seems likelier than the GLA mounting an armoured over-land offensive through Turkey, the Balkans and Eastern Europe before they finally reach Germany. No, they would have to rely on local supporters, sleeper cells and a fast make-or-break delivery of all their heavy weapons the moment they control a port facility. The timing would have to be perfect, but then again, this is supposed to be an insane military gambit that goes down in history, right? The sort of thing that would be deemed impossible before it actually happens in-universe.

As for the monuments, they weren't all that sophisticated, and let's be real here: The average rank-and-file GLA grunt probably went into this operation thinking that occupation was the goal - or actually possible to begin with - or that they would go down fighting killing as many people as possible. To them it was going to be the 21st century equivalent to the siege of Vienna or the battle of Tours, except victorious this time around. In this context, setting up these small statues is a part of psychological warfare; to humiliate the people whose land you have allegedly 'occupied'; plus, the GLA is just that crazy, apparently. Also, we're all putting a lot more thoughts into this than EA, who never intended this thing to make sense. Their premise was to have crypto-Islamic terrorists occupying Europe, logic and feasibility be damned, and now it's up to us to make some sense of this whole mess. Tis the best we got without utterly retconning everything.

Lastly, the EU countries would probably still use their own militaries to do their best at containing the GLA but as it stands, they might just lack the sheer tenacity and ferociousness necessary to just rush into the cities, guns blazing and do what's necessary to stop the lunatics that employ suicide bombers and hose people down with acid sprayers. Actually, since the game only depicts GLA 'occupations' in Germany, a point could probably be made that only the German military (currently about 200.000 active troops strong, most of which would be caught with their pants down if attacked on home soil) would be directly involved whereas the other EU countries put their forces on full alert to guard their own cities in the event that something similar might happen in their countries as well. They wouldn't directly intervene for fear of leaving their own countries exposed but the mere fact that there's massacres going on in central Europe and the very real possibility of GLA Scud and Anthrax attacks on other cities might be enough to paralyse the continent and utterly wreck the economy. Goes to show how solidly united this EU would actually be once the chips are down in this scenario.

As for India: We simply haven't thought of anything for them (yet). They'd probably just remain neutral and sit this one out while economically competing with China.

If the RotR team going to do a "lore" update to fix all these questions poping up now and again. Let me say you go around doing it like this:
- Gen/ZH (RotR's take on it and whats there story based on)
- The Gap
- RotR

But then again, you already did a type of "lore" before (see main RotR site) so these no real point to doing one until close to 2.0 release. otherwise its just going to be redone again. IMO

[Dangerman]

South America was mentioned in-detail mostly due to the fact that most, if not all of our lore was originally made by Overdose, who is from Brazil and thus decided to add a local flavour to what would otherwise have been rather Western-centric.

Ah I see, makes sense.

A curious suggestion I was thinking about this tunnel system was that when and why did the idea of the GLA using an entirely new way of using their structures come from?

This post has been edited by dangerman1337: 24 Mar 2012, 19:29

[Cobretti]

As for India: We simply haven't thought of anything for them (yet). They'd probably just remain neutral and sit this one out while economically competing with China.

India does have quite strong ties to both Russia and the US, is rather hostile towards China, so I think they'd mostly remain neutral should the US and Russia find themselves at odds.

[SpiralSpectre]

A curious suggestion I was thinking about this tunnel system was that when and why did the idea of the GLA using an entirely new way of using their structures come from?

Why? Maybe because that's how RL terrorists maintain their network? Ofc GLA are like super terrorists to say the least.