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ROTR 1.87 Update 1
Arc
post 16 Apr 2016, 9:47
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 16 Apr 2016, 15:53) *
No Fishing.

Sure, half of it is kinda of fishing.
But:
QUOTE
Yep this is a new T0 ECA unit.
-The Hunter



This post has been edited by Arc: 16 Apr 2016, 9:47
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TimeBurner
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:01
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WTF guys. Engineer rush is a problem now? Since when?

Fuckin synths = Fuckin engineers


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AtoMaki
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:15
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QUOTE (Comrade M.P @ 16 Apr 2016, 9:39) *
Tell me how hard is getting a BMP and killing the engineer and the Bloodhound?


If one of the engineers is going for the war factory (and why wouldn't he?), then it is pretty darn hard wink.gif. I mean, the Bloodhound won't roll in with a huge flag above it, and if your attention is elsewhere (might happen at T1), then the first sign of the drive-by might be the message that your buildings are being captured. While I'm not big on the actual stats, but I do think that Engineers capture buildings faster than you could produce an anti-infantry vehicle (and then micro it to kill the Engineer) or order one from the frontline to deal with the incursion (producing anti-infantry infantry will not work because of the Bloodhound). Not to mention that there are actually two Engineers at work here, eating up even more of your precious attention and micro.

You can also counter the drive-by by placing your buildings in a tight cluster around one or two anti-infantry turret, but then you are just doing ECA a favor. Above that, it looks like countering the drive-by is up to sheer luck: you can spot the Bloodhound early, you can have anti-infantry vehicle conveniently close (or even freshly rolling out from the War Factory), or SAGE can save you with some awful pathfinding for the Engineers.

QUOTE
If you loose the game because of engineers then you simply got outplayed.


Well, my point here is that pulling this trick and thus "outplaying" your opponent should not be exactly hard. The scenario heavily favors the ECA player, and in a way I don't really see as very ECA-ish (this sneaky business is more like GLA stuff), so to speak. In my opinion, if the Bloodhound is T1, then it shouldn't have transport capacity - it is good enough as it is.
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TimeBurner
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:24
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Engineer rush at tier 1? Who does that? and who loses to that?


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M.P
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:28
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I just lol'd when i read your statement dude. Go home and play some games, and you'll see how easy is dealing with ninjaneers.
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AtoMaki
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:32
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QUOTE (TimeBurner @ 16 Apr 2016, 10:24) *
Engineer rush at tier 1? Who does that? and who loses to that?


I guess nobody, as the key unit in the tactic is not the Engineer but the Bloodhound. This whole "sneaky Engineers" thing gets into a whole different light when you have a fast and reliable transport for those guys that can slip through T1 defenses (Chaff) and cover the Engineers with more than a feeble machine gun.

QUOTE
Go home and play some games, and you'll see how easy is dealing with ninjaneers.


I will, as soon as 1.87 comes out. Though, I'm just a dirty casual, so I don't expect much laugh.gif .

This post has been edited by AtoMaki: 16 Apr 2016, 10:34
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TimeBurner
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:33
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MP,get za supersecretrusianthingy on ze field and watch for those damn cursed engineerz!


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Mizo
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:36
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QUOTE (AtoMaki @ 16 Apr 2016, 11:15) *
If one of the engineers is going for the war factory (and why wouldn't he?), then it is pretty darn hard wink.gif. I mean, the Bloodhound won't roll in with a huge flag above it, and if your attention is elsewhere (might happen at T1), then the first sign of the drive-by might be the message that your buildings are being captured. While I'm not big on the actual stats, but I do think that Engineers capture buildings faster than you could produce an anti-infantry vehicle (and then micro it to kill the Engineer) or order one from the frontline to deal with the incursion (producing anti-infantry infantry will not work because of the Bloodhound). Not to mention that there are actually two Engineers at work here, eating up even more of your precious attention and micro.

You can also counter the drive-by by placing your buildings in a tight cluster around one or two anti-infantry turret, but then you are just doing ECA a favor. Above that, it looks like countering the drive-by is up to sheer luck: you can spot the Bloodhound early, you can have anti-infantry vehicle conveniently close (or even freshly rolling out from the War Factory), or SAGE can save you with some awful pathfinding for the Engineers.



Well, my point here is that pulling this trick and thus "outplaying" your opponent should not be exactly hard. The scenario heavily favors the ECA player, and in a way I don't really see as very ECA-ish (this sneaky business is more like GLA stuff), so to speak. In my opinion, if the Bloodhound is T1, then it shouldn't have transport capacity - it is good enough as it is.


I can assure you that engineer rush wont break any faction unless there is a huge skill gap between the 2 players. You take one building, suppose the opponent sells it before you capture it , then what? ( " Our Building is being Captured" should be enough to grab his/her attention). So your opponent lost one building, so what? He'll just be more attentive next time, while you just wasted cash on an attack that only killed one building, cash that could've been used on something much more useful in the long run. Besides doing that early game is a huge investment and you often need to follow up with it by a lynx infantry rush or tigers, otherwise you are compromising your forward defensive foothold.

And I wouldn't consider this as GLA-level sneaky , it's just typical flanking, any faction can do that ( flanking part, not the capture part) , nevertheless, ECA does have sneaky tactics in the form of Frank Jeager and the commando teams, so saying that " sneaky tactics isn't very ECA-ish isn't fully true, seeing as them having 2 highly sneaky units.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 16 Apr 2016, 10:43


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M.P
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:41
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If you're playing Russia, You can get at least 2 BMPs to deal with the bloodhound. FC's build time is longer than a WF (You both get your FC and WF at the same time causr you have to build a PP too). And also you have to build the engineers too which are pretty expensive and have lengthy buildtime.

There's nothing wrong with the Bloodhound-engineer combo. It's just you saying that.

EDIT: Add what mizo said too

This post has been edited by Comrade M.P: 16 Apr 2016, 10:43
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Skitt
post 16 Apr 2016, 10:57
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erm dude the entire engi rush is screwed by just haveing 1 unit in your base

bmp as russia
quad/scorp as gla
gat tank as china
Humvie, viper or just a well placed firebase as usa
guard tower/cheetah/gepard as eca

as with every pvp game you should be actively watching for a rush comeing and be prepared to deal with it, this is also eca were talking about there rush options consist of lynx with units in, a cupple of gepards, or a bloodhound its not exactly rocket science to deal with them.

Getting rushed/flanked even by one unit is not a gla thing every faction can do it


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AtoMaki
post 16 Apr 2016, 11:11
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QUOTE (Comrade M.P @ 16 Apr 2016, 10:41) *
FC's build time is longer than a WF


Wait, the Bloodhound is a FC unit? I thought it will be coming from the VAD...
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Hanfield
post 16 Apr 2016, 11:41
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By the time you get an FC up and running and have made a Bloodhound with two engineers, the opponent could have easily scouted and seen that, and prepared adequately. If he didn't, then it's his fault.


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AtoMaki
post 16 Apr 2016, 11:52
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QUOTE (Hanfield @ 16 Apr 2016, 11:41) *
By the time you get an FC up and running and have made a Bloodhound with two engineers, the opponent could have easily scouted and seen that, and prepared adequately. If he didn't, then it's his fault.


I assumed that the Bloodhound was coming from the AVD. Obviously, if it comes from the FC, then the Engineer trick will suddenly become far less viable in my eyes.
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TimeBurner
post 16 Apr 2016, 12:02
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Even if it comes from AVD,there's no real reason to be concerned about it. A light vehicle can easily take care of any incoming engineer drive by. It's just a matter of being vigilant


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