Infantry Weapons, ? Options

[Nemanja]

Guys please tell me that Chinese Standard Infantry will not use SKS as their main rifle,
that was silly from the my beginning of playing Generals.China have many modern weapons today,
and usage of SKS or AK is not so appropriate.
Can Chinese soldiers at least on little icon be equipped with something like this :
http://www.apl-chine.com/imagesv/terre/fa/qbz95/qbz95_10.JPG
http://www.apl-chine.com/imagesv/terre/fa/qbz95/qbz95_8.jpg
or
http://images.wikia.com/twilight2000/images/8/8b/QBZ-03.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_80_yaznP3lM/TUWZ...1600/Qbs-03.jpg
As far of GLA,I would be not wondered if real life militia's would use old AKs or G3s in 2040s.

Which rifle is intended to be used as a main rifle for EU and USA ?
Russian soldiers would be also looks more dangerous on icons if they would look more modern.

http://www.gunsworld.net/russain/kalash/ak/ab76kb.jpg
http://www.gunsworld.net/russain/kalash/ak/pict0104.jpg
http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/713/image4kn8.jpg

MARS moderator edit: Turned all those massive images into links for reading convenience.

[MARS]

Not gonna happen. Infantry models in Generals have always been so low-poly (and thus also low in detail) that any attempt to give them realistic looking weapons makes them stand out like a sore thumb within the style of the game. A different cameo/model is only remotely justified if the actual in-game function of the unit is also noticeably different from the original iteration, and since Red Guards will maintain their semi-auto firing, the outdated SKS rifles will stay in. We know that RL China is different and that their military is undergoing rapid modernisations, but in Generals, they've always been depicted in the stereotypical "red & nasty" pre Deng Xiaoping kind of fashion and I guess that's something you'll just have to live with. As for the GLA, their weapon is based off an AK as you can see in the 'Fighting for the Cause' update, whereas the US Rangers seem to be using some sort of M16, judging by their cameos. The ECA rifle will probably be a fictional design as the in-game model does not resemble any real weapon and the cameo doesn't really give any clues either.

[Comr4de]

Actually we're using the exact same rifle the ECA had before we took them in, FELIN Riflemen will utilize the H&K G11.

[SpiralSpectre]

Personally I don't see any possible negative effect of changing the in-game rifle icons of the Red Guard. All they're asking for is a change to the damn tiny pic to something that looks like a slightly more modern marksman rifle and a change to the rifle name in the lore. This wouldn't have any effect on the gameplay, it wouldn't have any effect on the model, it would possibly make a lot of people happy and would stop threads like this. Then why not?

Personally I do like the semi-auto firing of the Red Guards but the rifle icon just looks ridiculous. What I am saying has nothing to do with realism, the icon just looks disturbing. For me it's on the same level as candy coloured GLA toxin, Towne's weird lasers and so on.

edit - Gawd I love the looks of that ECA rifle. :3

This post has been edited by SpiralSpectre: 23 Apr 2012, 9:01

[MARS]

Oh, right. I remember the render now.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if this was an altered version, considering that the G-11 never went into production and was a little too advanced and space age for its own good. But yeah, design-wise, the weapon will look a lot like this.

[Cobretti]

We know that RL China is different and that their military is undergoing rapid modernisations, but in Generals, they've always been depicted in the stereotypical "red & nasty" pre Deng Xiaoping kind of fashion and I guess that's something you'll just have to live with.

Sorta, Generals-era China is stated to be more liberal than the PRC today:

The reforms in China's "Modern Way" program have produced new civil liberties and excellent growth in Chinese exports, particularly in light manufacturing and agricultural products. Beijing has repeatedly stated that these changes are here to stay, a position that does not sit well with the GLA.

But yeah, no serious changes as to how the game visually portrays their armed forces. If you want you can say that the rifle is a QBZ-95/QBZ-03 being fired on semi auto.

Oh, right. I remember the render now.
Although I wouldn't be surprised if this was an altered version, considering that the G-11 never went into production and was a little too advanced and space age for its own good. But yeah, design-wise, the weapon will look a lot like this.

Hey, it's easy to render! I'd expected the ECA rifle to be the F2000, AUG A3, or some futuristic variant of the FAMAS, given that the G-11 is dead and buried.

[Nemanja]

Not gonna happen. Infantry models in Generals have always been so low-poly (and thus also low in detail) that any attempt to give them realistic looking weapons makes them stand out like a sore thumb within the style of the game. A different cameo/model is only remotely justified if the actual in-game function of the unit is also noticeably different from the original iteration, and since Red Guards will maintain their semi-auto firing, the outdated SKS rifles will stay in.

They can set QBZ-03 to semi-auto,especially if they would use optics.
I didn't asked for changes of model,just for change of semi auto to full auto fire,like General Leang's Red Guards in Shockwave.

Actually we're using the exact same rifle the ECA had before we took them in, FELIN Riflemen will utilize the H&K G11.

That looks kind a odd and unexpected,but because of that I appreciate that idea.

[SpiralSpectre]

They can set QBZ-03 to semi-auto,especially if they would use optics.
I didn't asked for changes of model,just for change of semi auto to full auto fire,like General Leang's Red Guards in Shockwave.

Change from semi-auto to full-auto would have effect on gamplay so you can be sure that ain't happening. And honestly speaking having a semi-auto firing basic infantry in the game adds to the diversity, at least I would hate to see that go.

[MARS]

^ Hence why the Red Guard will remain unchanged.
The SKS in the taskbar may look silly, but if we just randomly changed it into a QBZ-whatever for the mere sake of change without doing anything to their in-game function, it would only seem tacky and arbitrary.
The way it is now, it is entirely clear from the get-go that Red Guards are the only semi-auto firing main infantry unit in the game. But who knows, maybe one of the generals will have a unique variant that is different...?

@ Krieger: Yeah, I remember that in-universe China is somewhat liberalised politically - although to what degree, we can't possibly tell, after all, the die-hard Maoists already started losing their grip on power after the '70s - but I was more refering to their military/attitude depiction, which is obviously quite heavy on the Yellow Peril meets Red Scare stereotype from before the Sino-Soviet split: Omnipresent propaganda, a tendency towards human wave attacks and an even more callous disregard of human life. Mind you that much of that is still present after this supposed liberalisation and it's still present several decades later at the time ROTR is set. Heck, it's so dystopian that a Russian victory on the continent would pretty much create the basis for the global political landscape of '1984' with China standing in for Eastasia with their fanatical state-worship to the point of 'obliteration of the self'. '2084' anyone?

[Nemanja]

But who knows, maybe one of the generals will have a unique variant that is different...?

Yeah,other general will have Mosin–Nagant for his infantry . . .

[Warpath]

Maybe its the Type 56 assault rifle which is a locally produced version of the AK-47.

[Nemanja]

Maybe its the Type 56 assault rifle which is a locally produced version of the AK-47.

That rifle is rarely used today by China,
but it would perfectly fit to faction like GLA.

That is Chinese AK.
Type 81 would also fit nicely to GLA,
'cause that rifle is main rifle of Sudan army,
and ROTR's story is associated with Sudan,If I'm not mistaken.

[Warpath]

Yeah, I guess your right only a few chinese units use that rifle and that picture looks like a GLA rebel.

[Mcbob]

Can't we just use our imaginations instead of having to needlessly define everything as a QBZ-95, Type 81, AK 74, AKM, and SKS?

And why the "danger" factor? No opposing player is going to waste time by clicking on your units to see their cameos and get a conceptual idea about how "dangerous" they are. This is Generals. Infantry are cannon fodder. No one is going to feel threatened by a bunch of red guards, conscripts, rangers, or rebels charging toward them because they are armed with the most modern rifles in existence if they have an army of tanks and artillery no matter how much you'd like them to be.

The only thing this will amount to is a nice little skirmish match where we can imagine anything we want for many hours straight, you know, things Generals players like us did when we were 10 years old. But that novelty has since left most of us and instead the thrill of modding, playing competitive online matches, experiencing new content, and improved skirmish AI are what really drive us now.

This post has been edited by Mcbob: 24 Apr 2012, 2:39

[NergiZed]

You can't even see these things. This stuff really doesn't matter.

As for cameos, it's much better to have unique-looking rifles rather than realistic ones.

[SpiralSpectre]

The SKS in the taskbar may look silly, but if we just randomly changed it into a QBZ-whatever for the mere sake of change without doing anything to their in-game function, it would only seem tacky and arbitrary.

Personally I wouldn't call that arbitrary and definitely not tacky. I would rather call that a gentle touch of care which shows you guys wouldn't neglect cleaning up silly stuff even when it comes to something as small as an icon. Units get remodeled and reskinned all the time without any getting changes to their in-game function and this is only an eyesore of an icon. Again - what I am saying has nothing to do with realism. I would take an unique looking icon over a "realistic" one anytime, but I just don't like ridiculous looking ones.

But oh well. No changes to the SKS pic in the taskbar won't kill me, it's only gonna hurt my eyes.

Can't we just use our imaginations instead of having to needlessly define everything as a QBZ-95, Type 81, AK 74, AKM, and SKS?

And why the "danger" factor? No opposing player is going to waste time by clicking on your units to see their cameos and get a conceptual idea about how "dangerous" they are. This is Generals. Infantry are cannon fodder. No one is going to feel threatened by a bunch of red guards, conscripts, rangers, or rebels charging toward them because they are armed with the most modern rifles in existence if they have an army of tanks and artillery no matter how much you'd like them to be.

The only thing this will amount to is a nice little skirmish match where we can imagine anything we want for many hours straight, you know, things Generals players like us did when we were 10 years old. But that novelty has since left most of us and instead the thrill of modding, playing competitive online matches, experiencing new content, and improved skirmish AI are what really drive us now.

Just clearing my stance - at least I ain't mentioning anything because of the "danger" factor, whatever that is. Changing an icon doesn't have anything to do with gameplay or even the model, it's purely about a small aesthetic change.

It's hard to use any kinda imagination when the rifle is currently clearly defined to be SKS and we can see the rifle icon in the taskbar. Again people define everything as a QBZ-95, SKS and so on cause it's fun and this is a game so we can't ask people to stop doing something fun no matter how needless it might seem, as any game itself is actually pretty needless in the long run.

[Nemanja]

Can't we just use our imaginations instead of having to needlessly define everything as a QBZ-95, Type 81, AK 74, AKM, and SKS?

Can you see that we are using imagination when we can things which looks like sticks and poles call SKS's,AKs or M16s ?

You can't even see these things. This stuff really doesn't matter.

As for cameos, it's much better to have unique-looking rifles rather than realistic ones.

Yeah but I thought about how rifles will look on little icons,
I don't ask you guys to change models.
There are lot hair splitting players like me that love when every time when click on icon can see that little cosmetic details
As for the imaginary rifle type I can say : Why not ?
Some imaginary QBZ-31/45 or M4A9 or AK237 would be nice.I'm just sayin'.

[MARS]

Personally I wouldn't call that arbitrary and definitely not tacky. I would rather call that a gentle touch of care which shows you guys wouldn't neglect cleaning up silly stuff even when it comes to something as small as an icon. Units get remodeled and reskinned all the time without any getting changes to their in-game function and this is only an eyesore of an icon. Again - what I am saying has nothing to do with realism. I would take an unique looking icon over a "realistic" one anytime, but I just don't like ridiculous looking ones.

Oh don't get me wrong, that reasoning is perfectly legitimate, but at the end of the day, The Hunter most likely will not approve it. In fact, I can already see this exact same discussion coming up once more when we introduce the Chinese and US generals via new MTG features: Their cameos will be the ones from the original beta Generals and some of them look like the most horrible 'Shops you can imagine. However, there is no changing them because The Hunter wants to keep them in for nostalgic reasons and due to the fact that ROTR is somewhat meant to be an inofficial Generals/ZH sequel using mechanics and features that were originally meant to be in the game.

If I had a say, I would also like to change some cameos that were odd EA design choices in the first place: I would change the Rangers' BDU to look a bit like the guys from Starship Troopers cos that's probably the closest thing to a realistic depiction of their in-game blue/grey uniforms. I would also change their rifles to something like a SCAR or an M416. As for the Red Guard, I would change the base colour of their uniforms from brown to green to be in line with their in-game model and maybe, MAYBE replace the SKS icon with some other generic but at least modern looking semi-auto weapon; maybe a fictionalised "Chinese copy" of the M14-EBR. But at the end of the day, it's not within my responsibility to decide over these things and I have absolutely no problem with that. It's The Hunter's mod and his creative vision.

[Casojin]

Maybe we should give Red Guard M-96 Mattock, Ranger M-15 Vindicator, Conscript & Rebel M-8 Avenger, and FELIN M-99 Saber. And then add some Reapers.... Just kidding, of course.

Though I prefer Red Guard with modern weaponry, I'm ok with classic Red Guard SKS (since EA perceives China in Generals should be post cold war somehow, considering their tanks and other stuffs). Also, I've seen many times people brought this up and the modders would say "We're not making this mod realistic" and so on. So, maybe fans should let modders work on something important to the mod or make a fan cameo pack or something (for personal use).

[Darkfire Angel]

This whole thread was answered like 3 posts in and since it's just going around in circles how about this? I'll just make a fan Cameo pack with updated Cameos and then we'll be done with it. Problem Solved.

[Jester]

Yea good idea angle I suggest this topic be locked before more e drama ensues.

[Cobretti]

In fact, I can already see this exact same discussion coming up once more when we introduce the Chinese and US generals via new MTG features: Their cameos will be the ones from the original beta Generals and some of them look like the most horrible 'Shops you can imagine. However, there is no changing them because The Hunter wants to keep them in for nostalgic reasons and due to the fact that ROTR is somewhat meant to be an inofficial Generals/ZH sequel using mechanics and features that were originally meant to be in the game.

Yeah, I also noted that the uniforms worn by the US Special Forces General is also obsolete as of today (as is the camo worn by some of the Russian generals). But the point still stands, it's nostalgic.

If I had a say, I would also like to change some cameos that were odd EA design choices in the first place: I would change the Rangers' BDU to look a bit like the guys from Starship Troopers cos that's probably the closest thing to a realistic depiction of their in-game blue/grey uniforms. I would also change their rifles to something like a SCAR or an M416.

I'd pick something that would make more sense like Multicam or some improved ACU variant for the camo (as well as the post 2004 gear now worn by US Army troops and Marines). Either an M16/M4, Remington ACR variant, or an LSAT based rifle would work; the FN SCAR wasn't any more effective than the M4 (and cost nearly three times as much per unit) and the H&K 416 also had the same problems as the SCAR. Not to mention that piston AR-15 variants are generally a solution looking for a problem.

As for the Red Guard, I would change the base colour of their uniforms from brown to green to be in line with their in-game model and maybe, MAYBE replace the SKS icon with some other generic but at least modern looking semi-auto weapon; maybe a fictionalised "Chinese copy" of the M14-EBR. But at the end of the day, it's not within my responsibility to decide over these things and I have absolutely no problem with that. It's The Hunter's mod and his creative vision.

You mean something like this?

[Mcbob]

You mean something like this?

SKS. Cheating the system, yes

This post has been edited by Mcbob: 24 Apr 2012, 19:53

[Nemanja]

You mean something like this?

Aren't those indeed pimped Chinese SKS's ?
I mean some Chinese SKS versions have such kind of mags.

[Cobretti]

I'd say either Chinese or Jugoslavian, they're the ones that made the most SKS rifles. I don't have an SKS but I do know that the SKS can be easily converted to take aftermarket detachable magazines. As far as I know all SKS rifles were designed with a 10 round integral magazine that you loaded via stripper clips.