Alex aurora Options

[fireboyBE]

Hi, i play shockwave sind it came out. I have tried every other mod for zh but your mod is still the best. My favorite gen is alex. Lovely, steady and deadly;) i know you're still in development but can you look at jer aurora. I've the feeling that it's not that powerfull anymore. It even lose from a gatling!! ( the effect is nice btw;)
Thanks, a diehard alex player

[Stinger]

While they are not going to be restored to Zero Hour defaults any time soon (read: never), you will be pleased to hear that in ShockWave 0.96 Alpha Auroras will once again be able to gain veterency and inflict considerably more damage.

If you have any further questions you'd like to ask, please do not hesitate to use the 0.96 Questions thread pinned at the top of this forum.

[Shiro]

Nice? When one thinks about it that the Aurora Bombs do 250% of their actual damage to buildings That is, if it has not been changed in Shock Wave of course.

[fireboyBE]

thanks

ps. thank you with all my heart for making the best mod ever

[Stinger]

It's always nice to hear comments like yours, Fireboy.

I hope you'll enjoy the new one even more when we get it into your hands. It has better working AI and AI for the new Generals, Ironside, Deathstrike and Leang. The latter three don't take any prisoners.

[walkingGhost]

Does this (getting able to gain veterancy) apply to ChinaNuke's MiG-bombers, too?
That would be soooo cool- they are my favourite planes!

Btw, i hope US-Superweapon is not getting too strong- she is already a real lategame-bitch, especially in teamgames (alpha auroras make short work of enemy artillery, EMPatriots are extremely annoying) and robot-tanks are (arguably) the most effective "MBT's", because of their speed and selfrepair-ability (they crush infantry, too!)...
GLA-Toxin, for instance, is extremely vulnerable against them.
But I'm sure the balance-team will get things right (although they focus on 1on1- balance, which isn't relevant for us)

thank you with all my heart for making the best mod ever

Seconded. We have been playing SW for more than a year in LAN (2vs2, mostly), and its far more fun than any other game we tried.

[katmoda12]

So if i understood well the aurora bomber will became a dual stage bomber:

Since now you need around 8 auroras to take out a superweapon with the veterancy you'll need just 4.

So after veterancy the utilization changes from mass-troop high-speed killer to building-buster.

that what a call improving game-experience

[Frostyarmy]

if the aurora can own Anti aircraft that would be utter BS.

[Shiro]

The Aurora can pwn AA, but only one at a time. Btw, if other AA are in range, the Aurora is toast

[Frostyarmy]

IT can pwn any AA In range , thats the truth of the vZH aurora.

Its reasonable for 2 alpha auroras to do this , Sure and even a 1 Heroic Alpha aurora, but 1 Non upgraded alpha should not be able to do that

This post has been edited by Жao: 28 Oct 2009, 23:29

[ShEsHy]

The Alpha Aurora really is too weak now, and veterancy won't help it one bit since it's main purpose is destroying superweapons and is therefore mostly a kamikaze unit. The chances of any of 8 Aurora Alpha's returning to base alive after destroying an enemy superweapon are slim to none (a Gatling Tank takes about 3 seconds to kill one), so what use is there for veterancy if none survive to gain it?
And when it comes to tanks, it's just pathetic (approx. 3 Aurora Alpha's needed to take out one Tank General's Gatling Tank), not to mention that it's fuel explosions do almost less damage than the bomb drop.

And the Superweapon General will never be too strong, since the EMP Patriots are it's only remarkable thing next to the half-priced Ion Cannon (which is useless against any non-turtling oponnent). The Shaterer is strong vs. buildings and multiple enemies, but it's armor is almost as low as a Humvee's (which before the Shaterer and Plasma Tank's implementation were the Superweapon Genera'ls main offensive force) and the Plasma Tank is strong against infantry or tanks (depending on the firing mode) but still lacks in armor.

A little evaluation of the Superweapon General's combat abilities:
Anti-tank defense: Top notch unless against artillery
Anti-personnel defense: Non-existant
Anti-air defense: Top notch unless against aircraft that are resistant to it's EMP (it's missiles are weaker than the vanilla's)
Mechanised offense: Extremely low-armored and medium to high attack
Infantry: Same as vanilla USA except for the EMP Javelins, which are extremely useful against tanks
Aircraft: Same as vanilla USA except for the way too nerfed Aurora Alpha, which is now only useful for kamikaze runs on enemy superweapons

All in all, the Superweapon General sucks 1vs1 since it mainly has the same function as a Templar knight or a Paladin in any MMO, and that is to defend and support allies, but never to attack alone.

[Pickysaurus]

So what are you suggesting?
A high power, invincible unit - with only a long reload time and ground vulnerability as it's weakness?

Sounds very over powered

[IonCharge]

I think Super weapons gen is fine as a general as it is really. the whole point is for her to turtle with defensive units etc.

[ShEsHy]

So what are you suggesting?
A high power, invincible unit - with only a long reload time and ground vulnerability as it's weakness?

Sounds very over powered

I'm suggesting to make it the same way as it was before. What use is an expensive kamikaze bomber that is weaker than a normal bomber and almost completely ineffective against tanks? If it doesn't have high damage, then what does it have? The guarantee that it will succesfully drop the bomb is useless when the bomb is extremely weak and you know that it was a one way trip.
It's only use now (for me at least) is to take out artillery, but even that is nonsense if there's a AA Tank nearby since sacrificing an Aurora Alpha for a Rocket Buggy or a Mortar Infantry hardly seems balanced, don't you think?

I think Super weapons gen is fine as a general as it is really. the whole point is for her to turtle with defensive units etc.

Yes, it's a turling General, but one that's only effective against itself, every other general can easily defeat it. Well, maybe not the Tank General, but if it were to use aircraft against it, the Superweapon General would lose.

This post has been edited by ShEsHy: 7 Nov 2009, 0:55

[Frostyarmy]

AA is suppose to own Aircraft bottom line , if you dont like it , you dont have to play.

Coined the term , Anti-Aircraft.

Also SWG can pwn any gen very simply, you dont know how to.

This post has been edited by Zhao: 7 Nov 2009, 1:31

[Alias]

I don't see why this is still going on when it's been clearly stated that it is different in 0.96.

[Chyros]

The Alpha Aurora really is too weak now, and veterancy won't help it one bit since it's main purpose is destroying superweapons

It's not.

And when it comes to tanks, it's just pathetic (approx. 3 Aurora Alpha's needed to take out one Tank General's Gatling Tank), not to mention that it's fuel explosions do almost less damage than the bomb drop.

You are confusing two things here. The AA is very good at taking out tanks. It's very bad at taking out anti-air.

The Shaterer is strong vs. buildings and multiple enemies, but it's armor is almost as low as a Humvee's

A humvee actually doesn't have weak armour at all.

and the Plasma Tank is strong against infantry or tanks (depending on the firing mode) but still lacks in armor.

No, it is strong against both tanks and infantry with the plasma ball mode.

Anti-personnel defense: Non-existant

You my need yo re-evaluate your playstyle, because this statement is frankly ridiculous. Alexander has access to things that are among the best anti-infantry measures in the entire game.

Anti-air defense: Top notch unless against aircraft that are resistant to it's EMP (it's missiles are weaker than the vanilla's)

Units no longer insta-die from EMP effects and the EMP Patriot does the same damage as or more damage than normal Patriot batteries against air units.

Infantry: Same as vanilla USA except for the EMP Javelins, which are extremely useful against tanks

Her infantry are actually a lot more potent than vUSA's, and not just with the EMP attack.

Aircraft: Same as vanilla USA except for the way too nerfed Aurora Alpha, which is now only useful for kamikaze runs on enemy superweapons

It was never meant to be useful for that, and is a lot more useful for destroying tanks currently.

All in all, the Superweapon General sucks 1vs1 since it mainly has the same function as a Templar knight or a Paladin in any MMO, and that is to defend and support allies, but never to attack alone.

Also, I'll add that general Alexander is absolutely not supposed to be a turtling general. In fact, in the future you will find turtling with anything very difficult, even more so than now.

[Shiro]

I dislike the last sentence Chyros. Apart from that, General Alexander has always been a General who builds bunkers and fires Super Weapons from them - it even stands in the manual for Z:H. If ShW goes into another direction, fine, but taking away turtling completely is a step in the wrong direction.

[ShEsHy]

AA is suppose to own Aircraft bottom line , if you dont like it , you dont have to play.

Coined the term , Anti-Aircraft.

Also SWG can pwn any gen very simply, you dont know how to.

I never said anything about Anti-Air being too strong, I'm saying that the Aurora Alpha's attack damage is too low.

It's not.


You are confusing two things here. The AA is very good at taking out tanks. It's very bad at taking out anti-air.

I suppose you're talking about Aurora Aplha here, not Anti Air? If what you're saying is true, then where's the logic in a Gatling Tank having more armor than a Battlemaster (at least when it comes to Aurora Alpha's attacking them)?

A humvee actually doesn't have weak armour at all.

Then name an "armored" vehicle with weaker armor.

No, it is strong against both tanks and infantry with the plasma ball mode.

Not if the infantry is moving, then it will miss.

You my need yo re-evaluate your playstyle, because this statement is frankly ridiculous. Alexander has access to things that are among the best anti-infantry measures in the entire game.

For example? Which of the SW Gen's units can defend against infantry but are not in vUSA or are in it, but noticably weaker?

Units no longer insta-die from EMP effects and the EMP Patriot does the same damage as or more damage than normal Patriot batteries against air units.

The same damage is possible, but not more.

Her infantry are actually a lot more potent than vUSA's, and not just with the EMP attack.

Never noticed any other differences, would you mind explaining them?

It was never meant to be useful for that, and is a lot more useful for destroying tanks currently.

No, it's useful for destroying low-armored units and infantry, since anything that can shoot up in the air, even if it's not primarily Anti-Air will kil it, since the Aurora won't destroy it in 1 or 2 hits.

Also, I'll add that general Alexander is absolutely not supposed to be a turtling general. In fact, in the future you will find turtling with anything very difficult, even more so than now.

Yea, I've pretty much guessed that turtling isn't wanted in ShockWave, but as long as I've got EMP Patriots, I'll manage somehow .


On a side note, will the Armor, Special Weapon and Salvage General's AI be included in 0.96?

[Shiro]

On a side note, will the Armor, Special Weapon and Salvage General's AI be included in 0.96?

That has been stated alot of times - YES.

[Frostyarmy]

Yes , Since the Gattling tank is Pro at being Striking down airforce , it makes sense to give it more armor to give it a clear chance , also that alpha is so more useful then you consider it to be.

its part of the Rock , paper , scissors system
how ever a gattling tank will die fast to Tanks or dragon tanks

This post has been edited by Zhao: 7 Nov 2009, 13:36

[JJ]

No, I find it wrong that a $2500 unit not able to take down a single $800 unit, it might actually die to that single unit. It's fine if it can take out one or two anti-air vehicles, just make sure that at an equal cost, AA will always own aircraft. Well, a highly inaccessible late-game aircraft which requires a General's point, costs a hell lot, takes a long time to build, and is (currently) generally not that worth it.

[ShEsHy]

No, I find it wrong that a $2500 unit not able to take down a single $800 unit, it might actually die to that single unit. It's fine if it can take out one or two anti-air vehicles, just make sure that at an equal cost, AA will always own aircraft. Well, a highly inaccessible late-game aircraft which requires a General's point, costs a hell lot, takes a long time to build, and is (currently) generally not that worth it.

Exactly. People say it's good for taking out tanks, but it's cheaper and more effective now to simply use Raptors or even Comanches for the task. There's just too much hassle to get the Aurora Alpha and lose it on the first flight without taking down any enemy units.

This post has been edited by ShEsHy: 7 Nov 2009, 13:56

[Frostyarmy]

i Still find that alpha aurora extremely useful , i have no clue why you say it doesn't , Should a Jarmen kell not kill a Emperor overlord with a gattling cannon upgrade because the kell is 1500$ and the tank 3000$ , yes the alpha aurora does need a buff , but not that it will , Its the reason it takes 2 king raptors to kill a gatting tank
2400$ to take down a 800$ unit. The reason for that is again the rock paper scissors system . but yes in the end i would say shw did nerf the alpha a bit more then neccsary
as i noticed two alpha auroras can not own a small AA tank , which annoys me as well , even some certain tanks survive a alpha aurora

On the other hand:

that could easily be covered over with tomahawks , Enforcers , burtons , rangers even , EMP rocket men , Search and destroy on tomahawks is my choice as Anti Artillary


This post has been edited by Zhao: 7 Nov 2009, 14:13

[ShEsHy]

i Still find that alpha aurora extremely useful , i have no clue why you say it doesn't , Should a Jarmen kell not kill a Emperor overlord with a gattling cannon upgrade because the kell is 1500$ and the tank 3000$ , yes the alpha aurora does need a buff , but not that it will , Its the reason it takes 2 king raptors to kill a gatting tank
2400$ to take down a 800$ unit. The reason for that is again the rock paper scissors system . but yes in the end i would say shw did nerf the alpha a bit more then neccsary
as i noticed two alpha auroras can not own a small AA tank , which annoys me as well , even some certain tanks survive a alpha aurora

On the other hand:

that could easily be covered over with tomahawks , Enforcers , burtons , rangers even , EMP rocket men , Search and destroy on tomahawks is my choice as Anti Artillary

Jarmen Kell does not kill it, it just kills the driver, so you can get it back by occupying it with an infantry unit.
And it's not some tanks, it's most tanks survive an Aurora Alpha. Basically, almost everything that's not artillery needs 2 hits or (usually) more.

As for the spoiler, everything can be covered by something, so posting that is like saying; a ranger can't destroy an entire enemy base, but that can be covered by Nukes, SCUDs and Ion Cannons... meaningless.

This post has been edited by ShEsHy: 7 Nov 2009, 14:22