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Some review
Casojin
post 22 Jun 2011, 9:43
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When PtV007 is out, it has become my favorite HW2 mod. I really like the new fast-pace style (due to limited time-table in RL these days) combined with choices and variety of strategies and tactics.

However, after playing for a while, it seems that Vaygr can field less ships than Hiigaran (and Vaygr fleet is supposed to be the one who has to come with number), especially Cap Ships.

Hiig Soban: 6 Des, 3 Cru, 2 BC (if two carrier is used)
Hiig Soban + Naabal: 6 Des, 3 Cru, 3 BC (one starting carrier is enough)
Hiig Manaan: 6 Des, 3 Cru
Vay Warlord: 6 Des, 3 Cru
Vay Invasion: 6 Des, 2 BC

This makes me feel that Vaygr number is a bit lacking compared to Hiigaran, especially Sobani. Even comparing Manaan with Soban, I think Soban is much more effective. The best combination with Manaan seems to be Somtaaw but not the other two.

Sobani force can field a lot of cap ships with Somtaaw (6 Des, 3 Cru, 2 BC, 2 Somtaaw Dreadnought) while Manaan seems to get less. Manaan with Naabal seems to be quite a disappointing choice as they have only carrier as super-capitol ships. They can have a lot of production facility but there is not enough ship cap for them to field anything from those factories. Manaan with S'Jet is not entirely good nor bad. They are just not as good as Manaan with Somtaaw.

As Vaygr player, I really like the new warlord choices. Alas, some hero doesn't last very long in battle (Commander Lijan for example). It takes quite some time to figure out which hero fits what doctrines. But as I said earlier, they seem to have less ships than Hiigaran at maximum cap.

Dark Omen is......powerful but it's hard to get them.

Kadeshi is also very interesting race, considering that they have the most combination choices (12). It makes me confused sometimes but there are only certain number of good combinations. It took quite some time for me to learn the combination but in the end, I think I get the system.

Keeper is as slow as ever and play pretty much like PtV006 with less energy production.

Turanic is really great with merc. It's quite interesting with random Pirate Lord assistance. Nice one.

It would be nice to have a manual and strategic guide like 006 one.


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Ryuseimaru
post 22 Jun 2011, 13:34
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Since Mololu is on only rarely these days, I'd like to answer instead, but he might know loads more than me.

From what I know the Vaygr aren't meant to have loads of CapShips, but loads of smaller ships, while the Hiigarans rely on CapShips supported by small fleets of Strikecrafts and Frigs.
Vay: (the numbers might not be exact, but you get the idea)
15 Fighters (+10 EliteFighters for Warlord)
15 Corvs
18 Frigs
Hig:
20 Fighters & Corvs
15 Frigs
( and you can even go for 4 BCs when taking Naabal, since you get the Shipyard and the Factories)

Soban might have more ships, but Manaan has great advantages due to stealth/cloak and very strong individual firepower upgrades. The strength of combining Manaan with Naabal lies in the Hit-and-Run tactics you can pull with cloaked ships while being supported from afar by the Siege Cannons and the Heavy Platforms. S'jet gives Manaan a pretty significant firepower boost since the Ion Destroyers profit from the upgrades big time and the Cruisers get their Core modules.

Yes, Lijan might not be strong, but he is the fastest to get...and he has some useful upgrades. Basically you can combine every Hero with either Doctrine, it's just the way you use them. My personal favourite is Warlord+Ishele.

Dark Omen is the obligatory "Superweapon", so to speak. Most people don't actually use it.

The really good comboes are 3+1 and the 2+2 ones. While the 3+1's max out the essence of one "Path of Faith", the 2+2's offer certain hybrid tactics and, in some cases, special upgrades.
Kadeshi: Very good Def, good Frigates
Sajuuk: Zomfg Weapons...on all classes
Garderners: Area Cloak, fast movements, strong Fighters & Corvs

Yup, they are...and two things are just plain OP. (I won't tell you what though, you'll figure it out anyway)

I wanted more Lords...but I was turned down, to much work.

See this as a miniature strategy guide, but if it's not enough....Would you like to know more?


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Casojin
post 22 Jun 2011, 16:29
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I certainly wish to know more tactics and strategies.

Especially Keeper to be exact....they have superior firepower (even with Pacifier Runtime). Keeping energy supply up is not easy (and I wish to know how to improve it).

About Vaygr, I like Ishelle and Vekur. I'll try concentrating more on smaller ships and see some result. Thanks for the guide.

Also, Manaan + Nabaal don't get Siege Platform (there isn't any icon for it) even though there is an upgrade for it (Noise Shell). I really wonder why. And Nabaal shipyard has Somtaaw ship build option. This one I guess it is there in case you capture Nabaal shipyard while playing as Somtaaw.

This post has been edited by Casojin: 22 Jun 2011, 17:09


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MoLoLu
post 23 Jun 2011, 21:04
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QUOTE
Especially Keeper to be exact....they have superior firepower (even with Pacifier Runtime). Keeping energy supply up is not easy (and I wish to know how to improve it).


Their firepower is needed due to low ship numbers. Energy production: Build 8 gens, wait for energy to stack up, then start researching capships, then frigs, build once capships are reseached. Don't try and build + research at the same time, it won't work, you'll run dry. Instead, determine what you need most and choose wisely. Once you get all the upgrades, you'll be tough to beat but until then you're at a risk.

QUOTE
bout Vaygr, I like Ishelle and Vekur. I'll try concentrating more on smaller ships and see some result. Thanks for the guide.


Vaygr: use smaller ships and split them up, dont' go running in from one side, spread 'em out and use capships to block their capships. Their bombers do insane damage, lance fighters are the excellent and interceptors, meh. Also, use speed boost to get your fighters out (and corvs if warlord). Warlord also gains a kill bouty so loosing ships is bad for you but killing w.o. losses is a big boost. Invasion: hang back and build up forces based on scouting info.

QUOTE
Also, Manaan + Nabaal don't get Siege Platform (there isn't any icon for it) even though there is an upgrade for it (Noise Shell). I really wonder why. And Nabaal shipyard has Somtaaw ship build option. This one I guess it is there in case you capture Nabaal shipyard while playing as Somtaaw.


That, I'm afraid, is a bug I overlooked @ nabal shipyard option, it wasn't intended but I'll leave it there as it's already in xD

This post has been edited by MoLoLu: 23 Jun 2011, 21:05


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Ryuseimaru
post 23 Jun 2011, 21:12
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Ok, then I'll get more specific for the tactics.

Keepers first, just like you asked.
Extermination:
Best is to get all 8 Generators first while you research Autonoms (Frigs). As soon as that's finished you should get 3 Seeker and 2 Hunter for defensive purposes. Check the research and get Overload to increase your power output by 15%. Building 5 Revealer now should show you 80% of the map very early and you'll see anything coming from afar. Now you should get the first attacks from fast Vaygr players, but if you have your Seekers and maybe a Hunter, there should be nothing that can cause you any harm. With a few enemies defeated, you should have the first Firepower upgrade, go ahead and research it. When you researched Sentients, get a Keeper first to get some Drones, combine them and then build the rest of the Autonoms (5 Seeker and 5 Hunters are the best choice against anything, but modify it to fit your enemy). Now it shoud be time to get your most powerful weapon....the Reaver. If upgrade with its shield and then with Feedback makes it take out whole fleets of CapShips on its own. If that's to cheap for you, research the other shield upgrade and get the other one and the Harbinger. Now, with all researches researched and most unit caps maxed (not the Drones, somehow they take up more energy than any other unit type, don't get more than 8 combined ones, better less). WHne you start to attack, make your Reavers tank most big ships while the Harbinger stays a bit back to protect its docked Generators. Make good use of all the unit's special attacks, abilities and especially the Autonom's cloak to move to the enemy's flanks, to get them out of combat and to set up ambushes. It is especially necessary to concentrate your fire on the strongest enemy units.
Pacifier:
Build and research order should be almost the same as Extermination, but what ships you get is actually your choice, you can also go for it with a Harbinger, but since the Sleeper has so much Crowd-Control (also known as CC) it is a good choice when the fight takes longer than you expected. Best is to get 3 Reavers to tank anything harder while your Hunters and the Sleeper take it apart. Keep your Seekers close to pick off any bombers. It's basic to Keeper playstyle, but I'll mention it anyway, always use your special attacks and abilities.
Side note: If you equip your Reavers with 2 Generators, the Beam gets a wider effect area and can take out large groups of Fighters with one shot, but you have to protect them very good, since you can't undock the Generators anymore. Same goes for the Harbinger.

No probs, that's what we're here for. The real guide and manual is still WIP, but it should be out in some time, don't know when exactly. Small guide:
Use your Cruisers/BCs to tank the bigger ships and use your Destroyers to take them out, while your smaller ships focus anything they're good against. The Disruptor Frig is extremely evil in either Doctrine, in Warlord due to it's heavy EMP (3 of them can keep a Cruiser or Carrier in Stun-Lock) and in Invasion more from a psychologic side. Imagine six Laser Pulse shots coming at you. wink.gif

Hmm, strange, they really should have them...last time I played that combo, I had them, maybe its only in the shipyard? Make sure that you really research only one primary and one secondary Kiith. And what you wrote about the Shipyard having Somtaaw build options is true, that's the only possibility to get both Kiiths...unless you break the rules and research both Kiiths.


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Casojin
post 27 Jun 2011, 3:23
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I've tried your recommended tactics and they seem to work pretty well.

I also tried the scenario mission. It's short but nicely scripted. It's quite tricky as well. Alas, I couldn't save the carrier.

It also makes me think about PtV campaign. I'm not sure if you guys have time to make it but I'll give some general ideas here.
- Turanic campaign: player is a new pirate lord trying to gain reputation by making raids and in the end attack some major targets.
- Kadeshi campaign: player commands a remnant of Kadeshi in a campaign of faith (which can choose between devout or tainted faith).
- Vaygr campaign: player is a minor warlord attempting to rise up to the top of Vaygr ranks.
If you guys like it and have time to do it, I can help provide a storyline.

This post has been edited by Casojin: 27 Jun 2011, 3:29


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Ryuseimaru
post 27 Jun 2011, 18:36
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From what I've read, there is gonna be one campaign (probably following the story of Morgan) and, after you completed the campaign, one special mission for every race. But due to time issues on Mololu's side, it's probably gonna be a while before any of that is completed.

About the storyline, I think we got that covered. Almost everyone of our team has taken one Race (or Subfaction) to write up some backstory. I'm doing the Sajuuk'kar (also known as the Prodeshi, Hybrid Kadesh or Heretics), LordGrantus does Kiith Manaan (stealth faction of the Hiigarans), Mololu took Morgan (and Raiders in total) and the others have yet to write something.


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Casojin
post 28 Jun 2011, 8:50
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Wow.....this is amazing news. I really wish to know more about Vaygr story (yea it's my favorite faction from original HW2). I hope you guys have some time to continue with the mod.


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Ryuseimaru
post 30 Jun 2011, 12:39
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Well, nobody has yet volunteered to write anything for the Vaygr. (They're mine too;)) We hope so too...

This post has been edited by Ryuseimaru: 30 Jun 2011, 12:40


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MoLoLu
post 26 Jul 2011, 7:26
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I'd love to make a campaign. Alas, writing it would take a minor eternity and I have so many ideas and no time to implement them, thus the fan fiction stuff.

Way things stand, I'm kinda feeling guilty for not pushing the last few morsels out of PTV (fixing multiplayer, adding campaign etc.) but I really just dunno how to make it happen. There was (at one point) a thread or chatlog somewhere that described the campaign ideas we had in the internal section but it never got past concept stage.

p.s. I often can't save the carrier in the scenario too. It's really difficult and quite obviously way too difficult to be fun to play.

This post has been edited by MoLoLu: 26 Jul 2011, 7:28


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