Defending China's Borders! Options

[Alex1guy]

Tbh US has most balanced units in the game. Their air power and Bradley require a lot of micro. Laser lock ain't there no more. Actually Russia feels a tad OP at times while China is slightly UP but US is in the middle.

I tend to agree, especially for the current release. Russia has units that can do basically anything. China is UP imo because you have to constantly micro their defenses, where as the other factions can leave their turrets to do their thing with relative confidence that they will be able to hold the line somewhat. Even the GLA can hold a position better than China.

[Warpath]

China is UP imo because you have to constantly micro their defenses, where as the other factions can leave their turrets to do their thing with relative confidence that they will be able to hold the line somewhat. Even the GLA can hold a position better than China.

Thats why I almost never play as China, their defenses are easy to beat, a small Combined arms strike unit ( composed of 4 Paladins, 2 Bradleys, 2 Comanches and 2 Avengers), flights of Stealth Fighters and Raptors or a Kodiak/Tunguska attack can breach China's defenses and wreak havoc on their base.

[Casojin]

It seems that China is becoming one of the least favorable faction in RotR.....

[ultimentra]

I typically use tanks plus a speaker tower and maybe an odd gatling cannon or two supported by Han gunships incase of artillery for defense with China. I have to agree, when going on the offensive, most chinese tanks paper thin armor (aside from the overlord) gets pretty frustrating.

[The_Hunter]

they are cheap and build fast for a reason.

[Casojin]

Any tip for China vs GLA rush?

[Warpath]

Any tip for China vs GLA rush?

Other than using hordes of battlemasters or a flight of 2 or more Han gunships there's nothing else I know.

This post has been edited by Warpath: 5 Jun 2012, 7:58

[The_Hunter]

Any tip for China vs GLA rush?

Can't comment much on that since i don't have enough PVP to base a sollid counter strategy against that but a few weeks ago i played a game against Comr4de and redguard spam with a few crawlers saved the day for me when the first techicals and quad cannons came showing up.

Also worthy to note that i did get speakers for the crawlers

[SpiralSpectre]

Can't comment much on that since i don't have enough PVP to base a sollid counter strategy against that but a few weeks ago i played a game against Comr4de and redguard spam with a few crawlers saved the day for me when the first techicals and quad cannons came showing up.

Also worthy to note that i did get speakers for the crawlers

Did Comr4ade try to drive over the Red Guard clusters with the Technicals/Quads?

The thing is Chinese tanks are as cheap as they can get but when going on the offensive they die far too quickly, specially against AoE fire or a group of 4-5 enemy heavy tanks/any kinda heavy unit. And compared to other factions their static defenses become pretty easy to crack open once in mid-game.

They are probably the least used faction right now... probably for good reasons if I may say so.

This post has been edited by SpiralSpectre: 5 Jun 2012, 12:39

[Alex1guy]

It kinda sucks, because they always were my favorite, but they are making it so hard for me to love them. Even early games, a few Russian BMPs can overrun their turrets.

[Anubis]

Ill have to agree that China's defenses are a bit week, but except the russians tesla, the chinese bunker full of flack troops is the only other instant dmg defense. Even though the range and dmg of troopers inside is really low. The prop towah with ecm upgrade is prety much useless atm. The ECM radius is very small and unless you put it in front of your defenses it wont do any good. The ecm tank atm is much better at it. The only thing that saves china is the auto-attack nuke cannon. In lategame ( if you actualy make it that far - which is hard as hell ) that thing can crack a huge enemy army. I still dont understand why with the new tier system we dont have a T3 defense for all factions. One that is able to hold against T3 units. It seems to me that every aspect of the game is tier based except defenses ( which in the case of china - putting a bunker at T2 which is an empty building that further needs to be garrisoned is a bad choice imo ). I can understand that the 'go out and shoot stuff' gameplay is favored, but turtling is a viable strategy and it should be allowed. Atm in lategame in PVP the only good turtling is massing shit tons of units - which is not a defense. Personaly with the new tier system i wish swr went a bit closer to how supreme commander handled stuff, but it seems today everyone hates or is afraid of adding turtling as a strategy.

[Warpath]

Personaly with the new tier system i wish swr went a bit closer to how supreme commander handled stuff, but it seems today everyone hates or is afraid of adding turtling as a strategy.

Well I'm not, I use turtling until mid game and besides, we all know that is all going to change when they release the ECA.

[SpiralSpectre]

Well I'm not, I use turtling until mid game and besides, we all know that is all going to change when they release the ECA.

Yeah ECA are gonna be the turtling experts but the other factions also need a somewhat standard defense instead of the practically pushovers that China has. Okay perhaps except for Russia since they have crazy firepower to make up for defenses and if I recall correctly it's planned that Russia's defensive options will indeed become narrower in 2.0.

Anyway obviously China ain't mean to have the best defense or anything, but sometimes it feels it would've been okay if they had somewhat standard defense, or if there was a somewhat good infantry to put inside bunkers. TH are only good in early game.

This post has been edited by SpiralSpectre: 5 Jun 2012, 15:14

[Anubis]

Yeah ECA are gonna be the turtling experts but the other factions also need a somewhat standard defense instead of the practically pushovers that China has. Okay perhaps except for Russia since they have crazy firepower to make up for defenses and if I recall correctly it's planned that Russia's defensive options will indeed become narrower in 2.0.

Anyway obviously China ain't mean to have the best defense or anything, but sometimes it feels it would've been okay if they had somewhat standard defense, or if there was a somewhat good infantry to put inside bunkers. TH are only good in early game.

The thing is, all factions should be allowed to play one way or the other. It's like saying that just because ECA will be higly dependent on artillery units, every other factions should have the shitiest artillery or if possible no artillery at all. If for example 1 player's favorite faction is china and his favorite play style is defensive he should be allowed to do it ( even if for balance reasons it would be harder - more expensive than with ECA for example ). He shouldn't be forced to chose ECA to be able to play his style if he doesnt like that specific faction. The point is - make defensive play just as viable for all factions as offensive play.

This post has been edited by Anubis: 5 Jun 2012, 15:25

[SpiralSpectre]

The thing is, all factions should be allowed to play one way or the other. It's like saying that just because ECA will be higly dependent on artillery units, every other factions should have the shitiest artillery or if possible no artillery at all. If for example 1 player's favorite faction is china and his favorite play style is defensive he should be allowed to do it ( even if for balance reasons it would be harder - more expensive than with ECA for example ). He shouldn't be forced to chose ECA to be able to play his style if he doesnt like that specific faction. The point is - make defensive play just as viable for all factions as offensive play.

That's one of the reasons why I said every faction needs somewhat standard defenses... unless they have almost outta the chart firepower to make up for it. Anyway if factions (other than ECA who gets the best) get moderate defenses then defensive play wouldn't be impossible with them, given it would rightfully still be a lot harder than turtling with the turtling masters.

As for Russia in 2.0 - I meant I support them getting narrower defensive options, not no defensive options. If someone wants to play defensive Russia in 2.0 then he'll just have go for Aleksandr and gain access to the Tesla Tower, but he'll have to sacrifice a few massive firepower options like the Sentinel or Hind in the process. So it's not like he can't play defensive using Russia, it's just that only one gen would effectively allow him to play defensively and he'll have to give up some of the ultra-heavy units for this choice - which is fair in my book.

[The_Hunter]

Did Comr4ade try to drive over the Red Guard clusters with the Technicals/Quads?

He sure did and managed to do that with quite a few of them (actualy almost all of them) but in the end i had one crawler left with 2 tank hunters and Comr4des rush/strike team was dead and dealt with.
At that point i had a economical advantage and managed to mass enough tanks to just steam roll the poor guy

They are probably the least used faction right now... probably for good reasons if I may say so.

Most of the time i see people complaining about the tank hunters and twinfangs.
Not enough damaged blabblabla and so on.

Fact is that tank hunters are likely the most effecient anti tank infantry in the game.
Their instant hit weapons means they never waste a rocket on a tank that is about to get blown up as all other rocket/projectile based anti tank infantry do.
To compensate this they have 25% less damage than standard AT infantry and abit less range but the bit above makes well up for those penalties.
(Note that these values do not apply when they are garrisoned, infact when garrisoned the tank hunters are the best anti tank troops you can have.)

And then there is the Twin-Fang.
Apperantly to slow and to little damage but has anyone who ever complained about it actualy looked up the DPS values of that thing ?
It can dish out more damage in a much shorter time than ANY other heavy AA vehicle currently in the game the only draw back they have is abit shorter range.


TLDR;
People complain about these things but i have yet to see a valid argument coming up that matches my own experinces (and how they are actualy coded) about their lack of "stuff"

I will have an other look at those jammer towers however.
Beeing static and fragile means they should be pretty decent.

[SpiralSpectre]

My real problem with the Twin Fang has always been it's range. Okay it's range combined with it's speed but I guess the second problem can't be helped.

Like I said, I find Tank Hunters lacking from mid-game. But that should be the case given they are cheap base infantry and tier 1 AA. Their bunkers can't keep up from mid game, But in a sense, that's the way it's fair as a Bunker full of base infantry shouldn't be able to hold back higher threats. But the problem is that's all China has got to put in the bunkers as it's the only faction without any kinda higher tier (offensive) infantry.

[The_Hunter]

Like I said, I find Tank Hunters lacking from mid-game. But that should be the case given they are cheap base infantry and tier 1 AA. Their bunkers can't keep up from mid game, But in a sense, that's the way it's fair as a Bunker full of base infantry shouldn't be able to hold back higher threats. But the problem is that's all China has got to put in the bunkers as it's the only faction without any kinda higher tier (offensive) infantry.

A full bunker of tank hunters (without promotion) can stand their ground against a single sentinel (with armor upgrade) and still have enough health left to stop a few kodiaks that come right after it.
That's something even tesla coils can't do.

[SpiralSpectre]

A full bunker of tank hunters (without promotion) can stand their ground against a single sentinel (with armor upgrade) and still have enough health left to stop a few kodiaks that come right after it.
That's something even tesla coils can't do.

Speaking just from experience, they seem to fall pretty fast against any kinda combined arms.

[Nemanja]

I tend to agree, especially for the current release. Russia has units that can do basically anything. China is UP imo because you have to constantly micro their defenses, where as the other factions can leave their turrets to do their thing with relative confidence that they will be able to hold the line somewhat. Even the GLA can hold a position better than China.

Maybe addition off ECM field around gat. cannons (like one on Prop. Towers) would make tehm little bit more immune ?

[Evan]

Speaking just from experience, they seem to fall pretty fast against any kinda combined arms.

They are Tank Hunters and should generally be used for that purpose, they are infantry so things that are Anti-Infantry are obviously going to make them less effective if not microed correctly. Rock, Paper, Scissors really.

[The_Hunter]

Speaking just from experience, they seem to fall pretty fast against any kinda combined arms.

Well the facts on the drawing board oppose it in every possible way tbh.

I even just now went as far as looking up their exact health and vunerbility stats:

Bunkers have 1400 hitpoints russian component defences have 1500 hitpoints and are more vunerble to certain weapons than the bunkers are.
Futher making the point of bunkers beeing poorly armored moot.

I can see why some people dislike them becouse it requires alot of micro getting all the bunkers filled but if you can't manage that and prefer just plumping down defences and be done with it then just play russia.

[SpiralSpectre]

Well the facts on the drawing board oppose it in every possible way tbh.

I even just now went as far as looking up their exact health and vunerbility stats:

Bunkers have 1400 hitpoints russian component defences have 1500 hitpoints and are more vunerble to certain weapons than the bunkers are.
Futher making the point of bunkers beeing poorly armored moot.

I can see why some people dislike them becouse it requires alot of micro getting all the bunkers filled but if you can't manage that and prefer just plumping down defences and be done with it then just play russia.

I wasn't really talking about the bunker's armour (I've called it sturdy in a bunch of my posts in other threads), rather about it's efficiency. More like the efficiency of the units inside the Bunker. They fall short when facing a combined arm of vehicles, infantry and aircraft. When there are only TH inside they can't deal with infantry. When a few TH are replaced with RG the Bunker loses it's punch against vehicles/air units.

Bunker's armour ain't the problem, it's not only the micro management... it's also the flexibility. Russians can leave both infantry and vehicles to Tesla Towers while dedicated AA gets aircrafts, US has versatility in armed Fire Base combined with 3 AT infantry+1 pathfinder, Protectors can be pretty effective, and their AA are arguably the best.

Thus China falls short in defenses, as unlike Russia or US, they don't have a defense that can effectively hold back both infantry and armour leaving air attacks to their dedicated air units. Again their Twin Fangs have range issues.

As a sidenote - recently I've found the now earlier available Inferno Cannons to be kinda effective as base defense, at least vs the AI. AI remains focused on a single building like a bunker, and don't attack the Cannons that raises a firestorm after a few shots doing effective AoE management against infantry and light vehicles that is done by FB Howitzers or Tesla Coils when it comes to other factions. It has somewhat made up for not having the versatile type defensive structure.

[The_Hunter]

having instant hit and and doing alot of damage very quickly i beleive that so called "range issue" as you dubbed it is no more than fair.

Also russian tesla coils will be exclusive to aleks later on so try playing with soley RPG towers for one to get a generic idea of how it's intended to be later on.

[SpiralSpectre]

having instant hit and and doing alot of damage very quickly i beleive that so called "range issue" as you dubbed it is no more than fair.

Also russian tesla coils will be exclusive to aleks later on so try playing with soley RPG towers for one to get a generic idea of how it's intended to be later on.

Perhaps it's just me then. Can't figure out why I can't get my Twin Fangs to provide good enough AA compared to what kind of services I get from the heavy AAs of other factions.

Yeah I know about Alek only getting the Tesla Coil. I was just talking about based on the current version. Can't talk much about a version I haven't seen or tried or in a sense barely know much about.

BTW what about what we know about another Russian faction getting the "artillery tower add on"? I figure that would also serve pretty well vs. both infantry and armour. It's just a guess though.