Higher tech GLA, Just a thought I had Options

[Shockwavelover84]

This isn't a suggestion for ROTR - just something I've had on my mind. Personally I've never been a big fan of the GLA's aesthetics just because of how absurd the idea is - I mean terrorists using salvaged WWII-styled weapons which can compete with the latest generation American and Chinese military equipment? Or a terrorist adding some scrap turrets to a Marauder tank he built in his garage, and now being able to take out an entire division of Abrams tanks? Sure Zero Hour isn't a realistic game, but that's just too comical for me.

Personally I'd have liked the game better if EA had given the terrorist faction a more modernized aesthetic - this is one thing I liked about the new style of the GLA in the unreleased C&C Generals 2 (and it's too bad more mods haven't tried to do this, other than a few unreleased mods like C&C Untitled which takes inspiration from the aforementioned game).

The game "Act of War" also comes to mind as far as what I'd have preferred - the terrorist faction in that game (Consortium) has a blend of more primitive units (ex. AK-47 and RPG-7 soldiers) as well as modern and high tech units on par with modern militaries. The story explained it away by revealing that they were being funded by large evil corporations which had access to high-tech prototype weapons and stolen military technology - which isn't totally believable, but to me that's still way more plausable than a bunch of terrorists in farm tractors and rusty school buses winning against a fleet of Abrams tanks and F-22 Raptors.

Maybe it wouldn't have been so bad if the game had had more of an "action-comedy" theme (like in Red Alert 2), but it seems like they tried to be somewhat serious with the plot in this one, as hokey as it was.

That's just my rant for tonight.

This post has been edited by Shockwavelover84: 21 Oct 2014, 5:04

[MARS]

Well, the GLA isn't -really- using WW2-era weapons in ROTR, unlike in ShW were we literally game them Ostwinds and Hetzers because it looked cool. Rather, the GLA in ROTR uses makeshift weapons, i.e. militarised civilian machinery, but also components that they ripped off from whatever military equipment they got their hands on, meaning that individual systems, like engines, guns, munitions etc. may actually be somewhat up to the standard of a real in-universe army, maybe a few years behind the times and not in an ideal state of maintenance, but it -can- be assumed that GLA tanks do fire some variety of HEAT or even depleted uranium shells, for example. We hope that the Recycler mechanic will actually help giving them a more 'technological' feel while still remaining true to their rough and improvised aesthetic. From what I understand, the Consortium isn't entirely comparable to the GLA in a design sense because they are a faction that mixes low-grade spam units with expensive super-high-tech units, whereas the GLA evolves differently throughout the game in that all their units are cheap and low-grade compared to their equivalents, but evolve to a more powerful state due to salvage and experience, which essentially gives the GLA -two- layers of veterancy. A GLA unit evolves from cheap trash to precious force multiplier by virtue of surviving long enough and purchasing upgrades.

[Drury]

It's a part of Generals artstyle, the game is retrofuturistic with a pint of rule of cool. China utilizing theoretical concepts scrapped back in the 70s doesn't seem weird to you?

[Nemanja]

If ROTRs GLA would change in some alternate reality,in way OP is suggesting,I would probably quit playing it.

[Kalga]

Then again, real life improvised tanks due have a tendency to look like WWI knockoffs...




So in hindsight the GLA armored forces might be actually one of the more "realistic" aspect of the setting. (go figure...)

edit:I'm not implying here that the Kurds who build these armored vehicles are terrorists or anything like that, just pointing out that their improvised tanks look like WWI knockoffs. Heck it's still pretty impressive though.

This post has been edited by Kalga: 21 Oct 2014, 15:04

[Nemanja]

Second one kick ass,but it needs Scorpion Rocket upgrade.

[SiR_Chaff]

Second one kick ass,but it needs Scorpion Rocket upgrade.

Install it on top of that searchlight/streetlight, and you got a badass troll tank.

[Shockwavelover84]

It's a part of Generals artstyle, the game is retrofuturistic with a pint of rule of cool. China utilizing theoretical concepts scrapped back in the 70s doesn't seem weird to you?

"Weird" in the sense of being a believable adversary - not necessarily being hyper-realistic. (Though while I'm on it a lot of modern military tech has actually been around for awhile - like the A10 Thunderbolt which was introduced back in 1972).

I can imagine US military being a formidable opponent for China and vice versa (as well as that of the new ROTR factions) given the level of tech all these factions use - but I'll never be able to to picture GLA's level of technology being able to stand up to any of the other factions in any large-scale battle.

[Kalga]

Second one kick ass,but it needs Scorpion Rocket upgrade.

Install it on top of that searchlight/streetlight, and you got a badass troll tank.

Is it me or do I actually see some rocket tubes above the tracks in that box thingy?

[SiR_Chaff]

"Weird" in the sense of being a believable adversary - not necessarily being hyper-realistic. (Though while I'm on it a lot of modern military tech has actually been around for awhile - like the A10 Thunderbolt which was introduced back in 1972).

I can imagine US military being a formidable opponent for China and vice versa (as well as that of the new ROTR factions) given the level of tech all these factions use - but I'll never be able to to picture GLA's level of technology being able to stand up to any of the other factions in any large-scale battle.

If we're going lore-wise, the GLA never did any direct large-scale battles during the GWOT. They were fighting a guerrilla war in Kazakhstan and Middle East, and an insurrection in Europe. Vanilla Generals/ZH might have depicted some direct confrontations (such as the first USA mission in vanilla Generals campaign where Scorpion tanks fought head-to-head with Crusader tanks) but never to the point of a large-scale "war between nations" kind of battle.

Is it me or do I actually see some rocket tubes above the tracks in that box thingy?

Those rocket tubes look more like a liability than help, especially if someone enters/exits that tin can which is in the line of sight.

This post has been edited by SiR_Chaff: 22 Oct 2014, 2:10

[Zeke]

Being one of those whose actually tried to make the GLA high tech, I can say from experience that it's not a very good idea.

The GLA is the GLA because they are poor, because they have no financial backing, that's what makes them unique. Give them the money and power, and they'll like every other faction except they're evil.

[Shockwavelover84]

If we're going lore-wise, the GLA never did any direct large-scale battles during the GWOT. They were fighting a guerrilla war in Kazakhstan and Middle East, and an insurrection in Europe. Vanilla Generals/ZH might have depicted some direct confrontations (such as the first USA mission in vanilla Generals campaign where Scorpion tanks fought head-to-head with Crusader tanks) but never to the point of a large-scale "war between nations" kind of battle.

In particular I just can't get over the unlikeliness of the GLA attacking the US military base in Germany head on and driving the US out of Europe. And that cinema sequence in the last China mission in ZH had me laughing (where a bunch of insurgents in farm tractors just roll unimpeded into a US base and just take it over - not to mention the improbability of terrorists suddenly knowing how to pilot F-22s and Comanches).

Though I get that this is the way EA designed it, so I'm actually glad that ROTR sticks as close to the original as possible while adding improvements. I just think that EA dropped the ball big time with the whole "invasion of Europe" thing in particular (not that they put much effort into the plot and logic to begin with).

Being one of those whose actually tried to make the GLA high tech, I can say from experience that it's not a very good idea.

The GLA is the GLA because they are poor, because they have no financial backing, that's what makes them unique. Give them the money and power, and they'll like every other faction except they're evil.

That's a fair point - my thoughts though are more about the overall aesthetics of the faction versus the way the faction plays (the GLA is one of the funner factions to play IMO as silly as a lot of their units are).

This post has been edited by Shockwavelover84: 22 Oct 2014, 6:21

[Serialkillerwhal...]

ZH's plot kind of falls on it's ass with elements like the germany part or the whole taking the Captured bases as canon part.

IMHO, Vanilla's plot was a lot more coherent, even if certain elements (Rogue Chinese General) made no sense.

[Shockwavelover84]

ZH's plot kind of falls on it's ass with elements like the germany part or the whole taking the Captured bases as canon part.

I thought that was kind of a "4th Wall thing" - like how in the MGS series Snake mentions he has "infinite ammo".

IMHO, Vanilla's plot was a lot more coherent, even if certain elements (Rogue Chinese General) made no sense.

Or China purposely blowing up the 3 Gorges Dam just to kill some terrorists - I thought that part was one of the most ridiculous.

[SiR_Chaff]

Or China purposely blowing up the 3 Gorges Dam just to kill some terrorists - I thought that part was one of the most ridiculous.

Or GLA managed to use a Particle Cannon to cut an aircraft carrier in half. Those terrorist who were "conTrolling" that superweapon must have had a conversation like this:

Terrorist 1: Brother (insert random terrorist name), do you know how can we use this Party cannon to destroy the American carrier ?
Terrorist 2: Meh, just push that BLUE button.

Moments later, the multi-billion dollar US carrier is cut in half.. All because some low-tech minded soldiers "managed" to use what the might be the most sophisticated and complex superweapon in the world in a push of a mere "Press Me to Destroy" button.

[Thelord444]

Being one of those whose actually tried to make the GLA high tech, I can say from experience that it's not a very good idea.

The GLA is the GLA because they are poor, because they have no financial backing, that's what makes them unique. Give them the money and power, and they'll like every other faction except they're evil.

This.

It would be some Mid-East nation or A colitation if that happens and not GLA.

[__CrUsHeR]

The Kurds are actually very good at creating "trolls of war" in the best GLA style

What about this monster?

I think most GLA players - including me - would not want to play with high-tech units or more modern stuff than a Stinger because simply break the style of the faction and you can always choose the other four factions to enjoy a high-tech arsenal.

[MARS]

I've always acknowledged that the GLA is kind of an artifact in ROTR: We still dedicate a lot of attention to them simply because they make for a very interesting gameplay faction, but there is a reason why they weren't very prominent in the story yet (aside from GWOT coverage and the African theatre) in that they are very much a time capsule of post-9/11 Al Qaeda hysteria. As such, we didn't want to make them the centre piece of our story, because that would have been pretty dull at this point, so we went for a more retro Cold War kind of plot with Russia and the ECA as our 'main event' so to say. At the same time, we still wanted to keep and expand the GLA as a faction in-game, simply because they are just as iconic as a faction as the US or China and we were always bound by the conventions of this merely being a mod and not a standalone game.

If I could freely re-interpret the setting with no previously established conventions, I would actually prefer having a kind of 'Middle Eastern Federation' sorta faction that would still be very GLA-like in that they would employ guerilla tactics, improvisation and reverse engineering, but they would have an actual industrial basis, tanks that are actually recognisable as being based on something that was designed to be a tank at some point and an economic/industrial base to justify their status as a regional power. In fact, this would actually work rather nicely: This federation could be the result of all the fighting that went on in the Middle East due to the GLA, making it a new force of order and stability that tries to rebuild the region and keep it secure from having its nations played out against one another by fanatics and foreign powers ever again. This would also make them less 'evil' and somewhat distance them from the terrorist cliche, which could still be somewhat represented in them being very diverse when it comes to politics. Each of their generals would, in a way, be a representation of their different political currents. You could have one that is closely aligned with a progressive party that emphasises industrialisation and military modernisation, one who would have a rougher authoritarian edge and make use of chemical weapons as a deterrent (would be ideal for a neo-Baathist kind of party) and one who's basically the military arm of a fundamentalist party that isn't directly affiliated with extremists, but at the same time, does little to distance itself from their actions when they suit their own agenda. What I'm saying is, a non-terrorist Arab faction with a proper industrial base -could- be made interesting, but it would not fit into ROTR.

[DELETED MEMBER]

To be fair, one of the biggest charms of the GLA is how good it makes the whole guerrilla/insurgence warfare pretty well, but if not limited by SAGE, i would like to see the GLA with a vehicle building mechanic similar to KKND or Warzone2100, where you build your mid/high tier units from salvaged parts (like say, you can use a savage overlord cannon on a kodiak hull to build a tank destroyer)

[MAgni]

I've always acknowledged that the GLA is kind of an artifact in ROTR: We still dedicate a lot of attention to them simply because they make for a very interesting gameplay faction, but there is a reason why they weren't very prominent in the story yet (aside from GWOT coverage and the African theatre) in that they are very much a time capsule of post-9/11 Al Qaeda hysteria. As such, we didn't want to make them the centre piece of our story, because that would have been pretty dull at this point, so we went for a more retro Cold War kind of plot with Russia and the ECA as our 'main event' so to say. At the same time, we still wanted to keep and expand the GLA as a faction in-game, simply because they are just as iconic as a faction as the US or China and we were always bound by the conventions of this merely being a mod and not a standalone game.

That's actually one thing I kinda liked about the aborted Generals 2, it evolved the GLA from being NOT-Al Qaeda into what looked more like a loose confederation of warlords, terrorists, seperatists, anarchists etc. from all over the globe.

This post has been edited by MAgni: 22 Oct 2014, 13:38

[Nemanja]

That's actually one thing I kinda liked about the aborted Generals 2, it evolved the GLA from being NOT-Al Qaeda into what looked more like a loose confederation of warlords, terrorists, seperatists, anarchists etc. from all over the globe.

Ain't that a ROTRs GLA too ?

[__CrUsHeR]

Ain't that a ROTRs GLA too ?

Not exactly the GLA as a whole; but the Warlord Sulaymaan yes.

[Drury]

To be fair, one of the biggest charms of the GLA is how good it makes the whole guerrilla/insurgence warfare pretty well, but if not limited by SAGE, i would like to see the GLA with a vehicle building mechanic similar to KKND or Warzone2100, where you build your mid/high tier units from salvaged parts (like say, you can use a savage overlord cannon on a kodiak hull to build a tank destroyer)

I wouldn't mind an RTS with post-apocalyptic setting where all factions are GLA-esque in nature (both gameplay and style). Resources, instead of taking form of credits, are instantly being made into vehicles - a worker salvages a car out of a salvage pile, drives/pushes it to a garage, while different workers salvage a gun for it, then weld it onto the car in a garage to create a technical (specific user-created designs would be handled in WZ2100 fashion). Advancing in the tech tree would be simple - similar to creating utility vehicles in WZ2100, here you create makeshift tow trucks that can pull bigger stuff out of piles, such as tank turrets. Exactly what type of stuff can be pulled out of a salvage pile wouldn't be pre-determined - you can pull a tank out of any pile, as long as you have sufficient machinery for it (so as not to make it too macro-focused, not being able to float at all is bad enough). Not sure about buildings and infantry...

Welp, OT.

[teslashark]

The GLA have some potential to build some non-scrap vehicles if they successfully capture the Real Life moderized Chinese tank factories in Sudan and Tanzania, or smuggle some Czech/Serbian assembly lines out of Europe during the 1st GWOT. I like to imagine that they would have a last-resort deployment (Via the GP tunnel?) of some semi-original tank design against superpowers who venture too deep into the Zone, like Type 85/96s, TR-85s or M84s refitted with the best bits they can steal.

[Thelord444]

If I could freely re-interpret the setting with no previously established conventions, I would actually prefer having a kind of 'Middle Eastern Federation' sorta faction that would still be very GLA-like in that they would employ guerilla tactics, improvisation and reverse engineering, but they would have an actual industrial basis, tanks that are actually recognisable as being based on something that was designed to be a tank at some point and an economic/industrial base to justify their status as a regional power. In fact, this would actually work rather nicely: This federation could be the result of all the fighting that went on in the Middle East due to the GLA, making it a new force of order and stability that tries to rebuild the region and keep it secure from having its nations played out against one another by fanatics and foreign powers ever again. This would also make them less 'evil' and somewhat distance them from the terrorist cliche, which could still be somewhat represented in them being very diverse when it comes to politics. Each of their generals would, in a way, be a representation of their different political currents. You could have one that is closely aligned with a progressive party that emphasises industrialisation and military modernisation, one who would have a rougher authoritarian edge and make use of chemical weapons as a deterrent (would be ideal for a neo-Baathist kind of party) and one who's basically the military arm of a fundamentalist party that isn't directly affiliated with extremists, but at the same time, does little to distance itself from their actions when they suit their own agenda. What I'm saying is, a non-terrorist Arab faction with a proper industrial base -could- be made interesting, but it would not fit into ROTR.

That's bloody awesome.