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How to import build list into editor?
UltraLuminal
post 30 Dec 2018, 17:04
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Title says it all. I need to import build list for AI into editor, so I can edit the AI base layout.
I know about that import button. I doesn't do anything. Because we're talking about program from XP era. It simply doesn't work, and if it does, stars are aligned in specific position or something.
The exporting function is confusing as it is. If I click export, I expect dialogue asking me where to export. Nope. The build list tool is piece of art as well. You cannot edit neutral player, fair enough, but why it's default one selected? So every time I do something, I have to be careful about the context. So it wasn't a surprise for me, when I clicked import and…nothing. Again. Expecting dialogue window where I specify, what and from where to import.
I tried everything. Having a valid, previously exported build list file everywhere and nothing worked.
So… Is that button just a pointless button, or is there a way how to actually import build list into that editor, for which developers should receive a death sentence?
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Mizo
post 31 Dec 2018, 5:07
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Import doesn't work, but the export does.

Simply go to your main game folder and you should find a text file named as the faction you are designing their layout for.

Layouts are evil though so do take care.


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UltraLuminal
post 31 Dec 2018, 11:36
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Lol. Of course it doesn't work. :-D I'm just glad, that XP era is over.
Yeah, I knew about this, I've just…expected more. Silly me.
OK, to the core issue now. How do I edit, what AI builds? As far as I know, build list is the only thing allowing me to do so. Because if I say in the scripts, that AI is supposed to build 2 scud storms, then…nothing will happen, because it's not specified where.
And given the fact, that AI already has layouts, I don't want to create new one. Done that once and it was painful, long and just…no. Unless, there are download links for maps, where the original AI build list is. For all 5 sides (meaning 5 maps). That would also be very nice (and for that very reason I seriously doubt it exist).
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Mizo
post 1 Jan 2019, 0:55
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It usually takes me around 10 minutes to finish a layout so I dont get why it takes a long time.

In your case,if you really dont want to edit layouts but want that double scudstorm, then you can order the AI to build it at the nearest supply dock.


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Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
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UltraLuminal
post 1 Jan 2019, 13:12
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Well, I need to edit existing layout, to be honest. That's why I want import. I just want small changes. So, understandably, I'm just angry at WorldBuilder, for being such… Well, you get the idea.
Creating new one implies creating
Yeah, I did that. Results are as usual. AI just…doesn't do it. Why bother… I've checked everything. I "cheat"-gave AI money for it. Even when I'm against it. Regarding GLA, AI doesn't seem to have workers, or manage them very oddly. It has some as supply collectors, some in beginning build the base, and then…IDK. Suddenly, no workers for building. I've checked teams, added some workers. Instead, they just stand by supply stash.
And once every blue moon, when GLA AI actually bothers to build SS, then it just builds 1 or 2. In scripts, there are 3. No space? AI doesn't care, as wee all know. Buildings inside of each other, when it's convenient, but even when I make sure there is space. It builds it usually next to supply source…but the wrong one. There is the one meant for that player, nice and secure. And then there are others. Where do you think, they build SS, the probably most important and game changing building? In such way, that you can just…walk right in, capture it and nobody cares.
Which brings us to why I want to edit base layout. Not that I believe that AI actually builds, where is supposed to, it more like builds in general area, and when there is no space for other important buildings, then it just…doesn't build them or build them partially inside others.
As I think about it, the game engine and tool are broken beyond recognition and I should probably stop trying to fix that. Which is a problem, because today, you don't have games like (GZH with) RotR. 5 unique factions, in this game style… It's perfect. Graphics doesn't have to be mind blowing, this is just fine. Instead, you usually get 2 factions. Wow. Such variety, much choice, wow.
Back to the topic. Yeah, text is getting long, but who cares… I did something similar with USA. They now have 5 PCs, because…to be honest, AI is just unable to connect the most strategically important dots (yeah…I know, I know, but I still have to be sarcastic about it). 2 PCs near supply source, so far, it just worked. Then 3 around the base. Works decently. Even the delays for building them.
And pretty much any other side as well. Even Chinese, which has to wait 8 whole minutes to get the most powerful weapon ready, they start building it right after they finish breeder reactor. But, of course, they build it next to some other supply zone, where it can be easily destroyed, which it in half of the cases get.
I'd add much more, like how I edited pretty much everything, but let me just say this. Nuclear missile was too weak. And I've had played Enhanced mod. And brought similar concepts into RotR. Nuclear missile is now capable to destroy absolutely anything in decent radius. It's…well…nuclear. That's what those weapons do. Down side is that it takes 8 minutes, costs you 8000 and requires 14 units of power.
And this is again why I want to edit base layouts. I have little bit different vision. Larger bases, more superweapons, more defences. But the game and pretty much any map, which I don't edit, doesn't seem to support my vision.
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Mizo
post 2 Jan 2019, 13:40
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QUOTE
Creating new one implies creating
Yeah, I did that. Results are as usual. AI just…doesn't do it. Why bother… I've checked everything. I "cheat"-gave AI money for it.


Make sure that your base building scripts are on point,in proper order, and that you do not give the AI too much stuff to build at a specific time.

QUOTE
Why bother… I've checked everything. I "cheat"-gave AI money for it. Even when I'm against it. Regarding GLA, AI doesn't seem to have workers, or manage them very oddly. It has some as supply collectors, some in beginning build the base


GLA AI is a bit stupid in that regards yes,due to the fact they have workers as both construction units and supply collectors. What you need to do is create a worker team that has a max count of 20 (basically a team of workers with min and max set to 1, max team count to 20. Supply workers are counted as those built. Next if you are very keen on not giving them cheat cash, then just grant them cash equal to their important structures before building it. It can either be before or after the structure is built.

QUOTE
And once every blue moon, when GLA AI actually bothers to build SS, then it just builds 1 or 2. In scripts, there are 3. No space? AI doesn't care, as wee all know. Buildings inside of each other, when it's convenient, but even when I make sure there is space. It builds it usually next to supply source…but the wrong one. There is the one meant for that player, nice and secure. And then there are others. Where do you think, they build SS, the probably most important and game changing building? In such way, that you can just…walk right in, capture it and nobody cares.


Which is why you shouldn't rely on this script function. The "AI build near supply source should be used only for supply centers + 2-3 turrets + 1 extra small building (airfields wouldn't even work,maybe a barracks or a war factory). If you are so insistent on base building then there is no other way than the base layout. Keep in mind the layout itself is "generic" and does not accomidate player starting position so you have to place your buildings in a way that all core stuff are inside the defensive circle parameter that they usually can build. If this was as straight forward as it sounds then AI coding wouldn't be as hard. Also keep the AI buildings in the layout within the size indicated in the tempbasesize ( you can find this structure in the Civilian structure tab). This shows you the relative space all maps have and all your core buildings should fit there, otherwise it ll extend the distance between AI command center and its defensive circle due to increase in radius.

QUOTE
Which brings us to why I want to edit base layout. Not that I believe that AI actually builds, where is supposed to, it more like builds in general area, and when there is no space for other important buildings, then it just…doesn't build them or build them partially inside others.
As I think about it, the game engine and tool are broken beyond recognition and I should probably stop trying to fix that. Which is a problem, because today, you don't have games like (GZH with) RotR.


Regarding on whether the AI works properly on some maps or not, best idea is to play strictly on maps that have enough circular area around the starting position point (it acting as the circle's center). Never play on maps where the AI starting position is choked by any map border or terrain or water regardless whether there is enough space elsewhere in its base. Space needs to be circular indicated in the aforementioned building above. The best thing you can do is make sure all starting positions have the minimum amount of space required.

QUOTE
Back to the topic. Yeah, text is getting long, but who cares… I did something similar with USA. They now have 5 PCs, because…to be honest, AI is just unable to connect the most strategically important dots (yeah…I know, I know, but I still have to be sarcastic about it). 2 PCs near supply source, so far, it just worked. Then 3 around the base. Works decently. Even the delays for building them.
And pretty much any other side as well. Even Chinese, which has to wait 8 whole minutes to get the most powerful weapon ready, they start building it right after they finish breeder reactor. But, of course, they build it next to some other supply zone, where it can be easily destroyed, which it in half of the cases get.


Like I said,stop abusing this script function as its never meant to do this as efficiently as you want it to.

Good luck.


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Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
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UltraLuminal
post 5 Jan 2019, 18:01
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I will address everything in numbered list, starting from, of course, 0.
0: Well, to be honest, scripts are 99,99% from original RotR AI. I have just increased number of defenses AI build, for example. But at the same time, the number of dozers AI has. Now I’m speaking specifically about Russian AI.
1.0: Yeah, it is. Enhanced mod has different supply collectors. I did like the idea.
1.1: Yes, this is the original team in the AI. But why 20? Can I have more? Where is this limit coming from? Is there a way for another team?
1.2: I did not change this approach much from the original RotR AI. I only give the AI like…half or something. Because, to be honest, it’s not fair to human players. Imagine if you wanted to build SW and did not have the cash, but just…could do it anyway.
2.0: Well, in RotR AI, the AI builds barracks, some powerplants, war factory, in case of USA some of those supply zones, so to be honest, there are plenty buildings there.
2.1: Yes, I know. The problem with maps. This is something I fight all the time. I don’t know, are there even some maps, where you can build large base, which would work? I mean…I got some, sure, but…those are the same ones, which everyone has, I guess.
3: Yeah, I have a lot of unsuitable maps and as stated previously, I just edit them, to be actually playable.
4: Sure, but that means I basically need to design new bases for all sided, including enough power plants, SW and everything. And it will be big. Like…really big. Even though there is not that much in it.

Now some new topics:
5: AI never builds buildings as close to each other as possible. I see why, but…where can I adjust this? Because particularly for the Russians, they need a lot of powerplants (I already adjusted their output), and I’d like to see AI do same thing as I do: build 4 powerplants right on the sides of command center and then just blocks of them around the base.
6: RotR team did some amazing work, and the engine is what’s the problem. So…transition to C&C 3? It would be mod for this game, but with GZH game mechanics. Except building, of course. But multiple SW still possible.
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