Air Force General, Stealth Fighters are OP!! Options

Stealth Fighters!! there is NO defense agaisnt them. I have tried many different tactic and there is nothing that can stop a Stealth fighter from htting its target.

One Scenario...China vs AFG 12 gattlin cannons and 10 Listening outpost stations well in front of the gattlin cannons.. to no avail..they hit the target. Furthermore getting promoted along the way..once 3 star is hit Carpet Bomb and Level 1 A10 strike is obtained. Game is over due to the economy being drained.

I know that the AFG ground units are weak..but Stealth Commanches come into play then. Even sacrificial choppers do damage.

So unless I am missing something and someone has a counter for this then game is unbalanced as it now stands in V1.0

Nikon

[Frostyarmy]

Stealth Fighters!! there is NO defense agaisnt them. I have tried many different tactic and there is nothing that can stop a Stealth fighter from htting its target.

One Scenario...China vs AFG 12 gattlin cannons and 10 Listening outpost stations well in front of the gattlin cannons.. to no avail..they hit the target. Furthermore getting promoted along the way..once 3 star is hit Carpet Bomb and Level 1 A10 strike is obtained. Game is over due to the economy being drained.

I know that the AFG ground units are weak..but Stealth Commanches come into play then. Even sacrificial choppers do damage.

So unless I am missing something and someone has a counter for this then game is unbalanced as it now stands in V1.0

Nikon

You guys should really upload replays so we see what yours talking about...

This post has been edited by Zhao: 6 Feb 2011, 3:52

A replay in this instance is not needed...you can simply just have two people test it out...one be AFG and the other any other faction you want...even another AFG. Then make 2 Stealth bombers and start hitting the base defenses and dozers...wont make any difference what you use for defenses...the Stealth bomber will hit its target and depending on the number of defenses..at least one of the bombers will always return to base. Wont be long before the AFG will be promoted to a 3 star General and get carpet bomb and a level one or two A10 air strike...then along with the Stealth bombers proceed to lay waste to the base ..or cripple the opponent to the point where it will useless to continue. I know that is the object of the game..but it is getting to the point where I wont play a match with AFG in it for this vary reason I just stated.

Nikon

This post has been edited by Nikon: 6 Feb 2011, 5:26

Uhh...I call bullshit Raptors would solve this in no time...even MIG's or Gadfly's...or Phalanx...

And if they're attacking your defenses you're not playing aggresive enough planes don't make it to my base...

[Frostyarmy]

Uhh...I call bullshit Raptors would solve this in no time...even MIG's or Gadfly's...or Phalanx...

And if they're attacking your defenses you're not playing aggresive enough planes don't make it to my base...

This

[Chyros]

Well, of course Stealth Fighters are specifically designed to be good against defences, so it would make sense that they breach them very successfully. As for Listening Outposts; not something I'd recommend for your purposes. Great for detecting them; not so great for downing them before they drop the payload. Missile units never down jets before they unleash so it's to be expected. Bullet units like Gattlings work better.

You guys should really upload replays so we see what yours talking about...

*NOTTHISSHITAGAIN.JPG*

Uhh...I call bullshit Raptors would solve this in no time...even MIG's or Gadfly's...or Phalanx...

And if they're attacking your defenses you're not playing aggresive enough planes don't make it to my base...

With all due respect sir..I do not think you are not getting the point here...this happens in the first 3 to 5 mins of the game..has nothing to do with agressive retaliation..

Consider this BO. (Build Order)
1. Reactor, Veteran Pilot General Point
2. Supply Center
3. Air Field
4. Que 2 Stealth Bombers, que Missle upgrade and Bunker Buster upgrade.
5. Scan Opponents Base..commence attack runs
6. Que 2 Raptors.

Economy drain is from having to replace Dozers that have been destroyed from the attacks.

I ask you again sir...what defence does one have for this?

Nikon

This post has been edited by Nikon: 6 Feb 2011, 12:35

Well, of course Stealth Fighters are specifically designed to be good against defences, so it would make sense that they breach them very successfully. As for Listening Outposts; not something I'd recommend for your purposes. Great for detecting them; not so great for downing them before they drop the payload. Missile units never down jets before they unleash so it's to be expected. Bullet units like Gattlings work better.

*NOTTHISSHITAGAIN.JPG*

Please re read my original post.

[Papaya Master Ra...]

Back in the old days, stealth fighters are good in downing defenses, buildings and vehicles. Now it got a good nerf to only base defenses and clearing garrisons. Anyways are you turtling by any chance? Because if it is, you are certainly wasting your cash on power (if you are china and us) and base defenses. It would be much better if you try training a few men and building vehicles to try rush tactics on to his base assisted with Anti air. And besides you did say he is upgrading his jets, before he attacks, so that would be the perfect time to strike.

This post has been edited by Papaya Master Rai: 6 Feb 2011, 12:55

Back in the old days, stealth fighters are good in downing defenses, buildings and vehicles. Now it got a good nerf to only base defenses and clearing garrisons. Anyways are you turtling by any chance? Because if it is, you are certainly wasting your cash on power (if you are china and us) and base defenses. It would be much better if you try training a few men and building vehicles to try rush tactics on to his base assisted with Anti air. And besides you did say he is upgrading his jets, before he attacks, so that would be the perfect time to strike.

I refer you to post number 7 in this thread. Turtleing does not even come into play here...and for the record two stealth fighters can take out one dozer without the missile upgrade. He does not have to wait for the missile upgrade to start his attack runs.

The point of this thread to make the powers that be aware of a problem in that there is zero defence against a stealth bomber.

I have two solutions to this problem...

1. make stealth bombers a 3 Star General pre requisit.
2. Give all the other factions a unit to counter the stealth bomber.. that way if one does not employ that unit..then there is nothing to say.

Every other air unit has at least one counter that works very well in taking them down. Stealth bombers require several units..of which there is no time to build enough of to combat them enough to prevent promotion.

To speak to your point of a rush attack...only works if you are USA or SW China. But even then 5 tank hunters or Missile Defenders are not enough to take down the Air Field. They would only damage the structure and then the Raptors would take them out. It is a gamble at best.

Again the point of this thread is to get some sort of defence against a unit that is seemingly unstoppable and can feesibly end a game in 7 to 10 mins depending on the map used.

Please note that this is all based on starting credits of 10000.. the standard starting credits. Anything else changes the dynamics of the match considerably. (And NO we do not want to change the starting credits.)

Nikon

This post has been edited by Nikon: 6 Feb 2011, 13:53

[Papaya Master Ra...]

When I made my post in mind I always think of the $10,000 starter's cash. Anyways:
1. Micromanagement is the key in rush tactics to destroy the key targets of your opponents. Also 5 tanks hunters can avoid the raptors' attacks by clicking them and pressing the X button.
2. If you want to protect your dozer/s, then I suggest you to put it very near your buildings, so that the missiles would hit the structure instead of killing your dozer. (Do this when you have no other task for the dozer at hand.)
3. Since it's a human player, I guess Number 2 tip will not work out so well (considering he will attack you on the flanks), unless if you put AA units to the opposite direction with a stealth detecting unit.
4. If you manage to survive the attacks and manage to build a propaganda center (although it might require more than 10 minutes, sadly) build ECM tanks to counter and protect against granger's attacks.
5. Always heed attention to all of your units. Have a simple propaganda tower near them to get the necessary benefits.

I'll happily discuss further with you, but right now it is my bed time. So see you later.

[Casojin]

Maybe you could rush them with a few gun-based AA, which would make him concentrate on something else (since stealth fighter is not good taking out units).

[Waris]

Attacking with Tank Hunters? Use the TNT Charge attack.

[Destiny]

The only reason why you find the Stealth Fighter OP is because:
1) It is stealthed after all. That's why you need several units. My stealth fighters never return if there's any AA anyway so I never build them.
2) He's Air Force General, specializing in planes. Why the hell would you wanna NERF someone's specialization?
3) ALL anti-aircraft units are counters to the stealth fighter. What are you trying to imply?
4) It's not a stealth bomber, it's a stealth fighter. Nuke bombers never make it out on bombing runs, yet Nuke MiGs do (sometimes at best).
5) The stealth fighter has paper-thin armor. Just train some AA infantry and put them around your dozers. He might kill one or two but he's losing more money than your infantry cost.

I'm an avid AFG player.

[Frostyarmy]

TPAM is win.

But in all seriousness i don't think those stealth fighters are that extreme , sure there stealthed but they have already bein nerfed since the last patch and there quite fine where they are imo.

and from what i've seen many players hardly use them anymore.

This post has been edited by Zhao: 6 Feb 2011, 17:34

[Sharpnessism]

as china make gattling tanks and send them into his base, he cannot kill them since early SFs means you cannot deal with ground units well

as GLA make quads

as USA just use rockvees or rockvee drop

You're making it harder than it needs to be...build 10 of ANY AA infantry put them where your important stuff is, set them to guard air. Problem solved. Stealth Fighters are trash VS infantry and IF they miraculously don't kill the fighters...the other player most likely won't take the time to repair his (or her) planes completely so you'll get them next time.

There is a reason this mod has been in development for YEARS, and it wasn't to make one team smear another it was to invite competitive game-play. Not just by who picks the best team, but by who picks a team and uses it best. I'm sure dozens of Beta Testers have come and gone to put ShW in the position its in.

I remember what was it...4 Years ago...when I first became a fan (xBIGBRUCEx) and things were still in the infant stages that's when complaints like this were viable but now, its one of those...GET OVER IT...types of situations. Personally, I hate how Armor General steamrolls the Tank General, but oh well, all that means is I need to play better not change the dynamics of the entire game.

ShW is one if not THE most balanced mods out there. To say one unit is ZOMGWTFOP means well, you're a noob, sorry but its the truth, and that you obviously haven't played even the basic Generals: Zero Hour enough to know that nothing is over powered in ShW.

Try Easy AI and work your way up...please.

This post has been edited by VGObruce: 7 Feb 2011, 5:07

You're making it harder than it needs to be...build 10 of ANY AA infantry put them where your important stuff is, set them to guard air. Problem solved. Stealth Fighters are trash VS infantry and IF they miraculously don't kill the fighters...the other player most likely won't take the time to repair his (or her) planes completely so you'll get them next time.

Countermeasures negate this

ShW is one if not THE most balanced mods out there. To say one unit is ZOMGWTFOP means well, you're a noob, sorry but its the truth, and that you obviously haven't played even the basic Generals: Zero Hour enough to know that nothing is over powered in ShW.

Didn't want to go here..but you forced me into this...been playing Generals since it came out and quit playing Generals at the rank of General. (half way to CIC) Got Zero Hour when it came out and never played the ladder but played it just that same for 4 years. I AM NOT A NOOB. And for you to say so is presumtious on your part and I resent it. I never flamed any one in this thread. Only pointed out a problem.

Try Easy AI and work your way up...please.

I can beat the AI on Hard...very predicatable. Play on Easy... pfft! PAHLEEZE


************************************************************************
1 AFG Stealth Fighter with all the upgrades can kill a dozer, and make it back to base. So imagine what 4 Stealth Fighetrs can do..Dozer Hunt and then commence to take out any defenses..wow you are a 3 star General before you know it.. Carpet bomber and A10 Strikes..WOW GG!!.

I reiterate.. the point of this thread was to point out that there is zero defence to the Stealth Fighter in the first 7 mins of ANY game. Anything longer than that and you are playing catch up the rest of the match. But watch out for the King Raptors and Stealth Commanches because they will be coming next.

This is playing against a Human opponent and NOT the AI

Nikon

Countermeasures negate this

-No, countermeasures will not stop TEN missiles. Also, they don't stop bullets? So in the time it would take to make two Stealth fighters with the upgrades you say they get every time you could/should produce Quad Cannons or Gatling Tanks, So saying "there is zero defense to the Stealth Fighter in the first 7 mins of ANY game" is well, dumb.



Didn't want to go here..but you forced me into this...been playing Generals since it came out and quit playing Generals at the rank of General. (half way to CIC) Got Zero Hour when it came out and never played the ladder but played it just that same for 4 years. I AM NOT A NOOB. And for you to say so is presumtious on your part and I resent it. I never flamed any one in this thread. Only pointed out a problem.

-No need to get irritated and defensive... I'm not "flaming" you...whatever the fuck that is? I am simply saying you're obviously not playing right.



I can beat the AI on Hard...very predicatable. Play on Easy... pfft! PAHLEEZE

-How can you beat the AI on Hard if they are "very predictable" when you know EXACTLY what this guy does every time (which sounds to me as being VERY PREDICTABLE) and you can't beat him?




1 AFG Stealth Fighter with all the upgrades can kill a dozer, and make it back to base. So imagine what 4 Stealth Fighetrs can do..Dozer Hunt and then commence to take out any defenses..wow you are a 3 star General before you know it.. Carpet bomber and A10 Strikes..WOW GG!!.

-This should never happen...a Carpet Bombing run takes like 3 minutes to reload and the A-10's around the same. Which is more than enough time to assess damage and correct for success.




I reiterate.. the point of this thread was to point out that there is zero defence to the Stealth Fighter in the first 7 mins of ANY game. Anything longer than that and you are playing catch up the rest of the match. But watch out for the King Raptors and Stealth Commanches because they will be coming next.

-I reiterate that there IS a vast number of defensive tactics that anyone could TRY and then IMPROVE on with more funds and time.


Alas...I am starting to get the feeling that you don't want to listen so trying to help is pointless, and very very annoying.

[Prince Kassad]

I think the countermeasures give the aircraft better armor overall even in 1.0. So he has a point.

Alas...I am starting to get the feeling that you don't want to listen so trying to help is pointless, and very very annoying.

If I didnt want help I would not have come here in the first place..this thread was mainly directed at the team who created this mod in the first place.

I had already tried everything that was listed here...which is why I posted what I did after the initial post.
Everyone assumed that the opponent was just sitting in his airfield waiting for the upgrades. That is not the case. AFG stealth fighters are a bit more powerful than the other factions fighters. I have tested this and I can have 2 fighters in the air inside of 3 mins...which would be taking out the dozers while the upgrades are being researched. Once done then I would not need two fighters to reek havoc..no one fighter will do the job then which doubles my attack power. Meantime King Raptors and RockVees come into play or Stealth Commanches if you prefer that.
So drop covered..rush covered...opponents base is severly crippled...matter of time before game over.

Paper Thin Armour.. maybe when they first come out of the air field but once armour upgrade is applied..not so anymore.

This is going to be my last post on the subject.. I will just have to wait and see what patch 1.1 brings to the table.

This is an EXCELLENT mod..beats out alot of other mods I have played. and this is the very reason why I am so concerned with this.

Nikon Out

[The_Hunter]

Why don't the both of you arrange a game and try out some of the theory craft your both talking about here

[Frostyarmy]

I tested this my self with a freind , I found it easier for king raptors to be a far more effective alternative to using stealth fighters

It takes 4 - 5 fully upgraded stealth fighters to take out 1 AA and 7 for the Heavy AA avenger

For a king raptor it would have bein , (1.3)2 Fully upgraded ones to take out 1 AA and 2.5 to take out a avenger.

See for your self


 StealthfighterAFG.zip ( 59.78K ) Number of downloads: 21


This post has been edited by Zhao: 7 Feb 2011, 20:36

[Sharpnessism]

if you play normally then its very easy to deal with this

1. gatt spam as china and its gg
2. quad spam as GLA and its gg
3. MD drop and its gg

if AFG invests in SFs then hes really weak to just gatt spam and theres no possible way for him to deal with that

I tested this my self with a freind , I found it easier for king raptors to be a far more effective alternative to using stealth fighters

It takes 4 - 5 fully upgraded stealth fighters to take out 1 AA and 7 for the Heavy AA avenger

For a king raptor it would have bein , (1.3)2 Fully upgraded ones to take out 1 AA and 2.5 to take out a avenger.

See for your self


 StealthfighterAFG.zip ( 59.78K ) Number of downloads: 21

unexpected end of archive error message from file.. you may need to re do the file

This post has been edited by Nikon: 8 Feb 2011, 4:50