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China, A question
XoGamer
post 13 Mar 2017, 8:51
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Due to the US redesign in 1.87 and GLA''s redesign in 1.85, is it safe to assume that China might be getting a redesign? For me, China feels the least changed and therefore it feels like it has the blandest gameplay out of all the factions due to it being too close to its original ZH gameplay.

However, it's completely acceptable if you want to keep all those features and redesigns etc. Until 2.0 and don't want to spoil anything.

Thanks.


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SoraZ
post 13 Mar 2017, 10:48
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China is not planned to receive any large "redesigns", no.


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re_simeone
post 13 Mar 2017, 11:18
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I am big fan of MiG-21, but from the design perspective, MiG-21 is Appache and Abrams of OPFOR.
I hope somewhere in future it will get replaced with something more original.
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M01
post 14 Mar 2017, 9:13
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I actually like the current models of the original factions building [referring to USA and China] but their textures are killin' me they just seem out of place unlike the other factions.

USA and China not changing how some of their buildings look/designed & stay the same throughout the years (and shit) [lore wise] it just dry.gif: meh

This post has been edited by M01: 14 Mar 2017, 9:15
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Zion
post 14 Mar 2017, 14:18
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I think the usa china textures are good, they always looked good.
and if these factions were going to get a design overhaul, then id say that should be another mod
currently ROTR is be best looking mod of all time.
unless you like old style ww1 looks then cold war crysis is a good one too
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NikCaputnic
post 14 Mar 2017, 16:52
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IMHO, there are only two things which need texture updates. First is the Hummvee: sharper door textures, and some more details on its frontal hood, like more sharper texture of its air- intaker, nothing more. Another one is IL-76 Candid: its texture is actually OK, but the model seems to have too boxy engines (they seem not round, but like made of rectangles placed in the form of circle).

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XoGamer
post 14 Mar 2017, 19:43
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Nah when I was thinking redesigns I was mostly thinking gameplay rehauls like USA's Drone Control Center thing. China seems to be lacking many good upgrades rn, like the troop crawler upgrade is crap - I don't even use them I prefer speakerlords.

Although this is all opinionated, nvm anymore biggrin.gif


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Maelstrom
post 15 Mar 2017, 0:04
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QUOTE (XoGamer @ 14 Mar 2017, 19:43) *
China seems to be lacking many good upgrades rn, like the troop crawler upgrade is crap - I don't even use them I prefer speakerlords

Well, you have a point here. The troop crawler recon kit is one of those rare upgrades that benefit only to 1 specific unit. And it is a concept that I dislike myself. But for balance reasons, it will likely stay as is.

As for Speakerlords, keep in mind:
- In 1.86/1.87, Overlords require a GP
- In 2.0, Only General Chen will have Overlords.


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ZunZero97
post 16 Mar 2017, 8:19
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QUOTE (XoGamer @ 14 Mar 2017, 15:43) *
Nah when I was thinking redesigns I was mostly thinking gameplay rehauls like USA's Drone Control Center thing. China seems to be lacking many good upgrades rn, like the troop crawler upgrade is crap - I don't even use them I prefer speakerlords.

Although this is all opinionated, nvm anymore biggrin.gif

Seems you are new in ROTR welcome!
China is focused on overpass the enemy's army, this means in LARGE numbers to gain the bonus called Horde Bonus.


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Skitt
post 16 Mar 2017, 8:55
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^^^ not exactly large zun...
you only need 5 in a group to gain horde bonus.


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__CrUsHeR
post 16 Mar 2017, 15:35
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I have to agree with @XoGamer.

While the other factions received positive changes in gameplay China only received the ROTR' characteristic trait: New "Tier System"; but there are no significant changes in gameplay in order to make the faction more unique as happened with the others. The tactics of most of the China players is to produce units in number, upgrade the Black Napalm and Nationalism (Inferno C + Overlords + Volunteers) and attack... which is very boring...

This gameplay of China reminds the old C&Cs, where you did not depend on a more elaborate tactic to beat, you just had to produce units in numbers and attack (problem similar to that of pre-1.86 Russia).

I miss in China's gameplay of some more specific upgrade for a particular unit or more units with multiple functions and abilities. Another problem is how come easy is to create units in mass in WF and Barracks when choosing "Mass Mobilization" (probably 70% of players choose "Mass Mobilization"); I would like to see a Warfactory or Barracks specific to produce these units in quantity, to force the player to make a choice of gameplay (not just the click of a button); on the other hand I understand that this requires extra work.

The current gameplay is a bit boring but is not something OP or unbalanced; "China is what it is..." but it could be better in my opinion.



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X1Destroy
post 16 Mar 2017, 15:55
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There isn't much that can be done about it anyway. USA hightech and skill theme have plenty of room to expand, but China's 50s era overwhelming numbers and nuking the whole world themes pretty much limited it from having a complete redesign.

Well, at least in 2.0 we will have secret police.


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__CrUsHeR
post 16 Mar 2017, 16:07
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QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 16 Mar 2017, 11:55) *
There isn't much that can be done about it anyway. USA hightech and skill theme have plenty of room to expand, but China's 50s era overwhelming numbers and nuking the whole world themes pretty much limited it from having a complete redesign.

Well, at least in 2.0 we will have secret police.

Talking about this: I think the player should have more access to a more current technology with China, which should cause some restrictions in Tech Tree, making the player choose between producing units in quantity or in a more tactical way with less units; If these choices are restricted exclusively to a General (Secret Police) we will have other two generals that will possibly replicate the China's current gameplay, which does not seem to be fun...


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XoGamer
post 16 Mar 2017, 17:02
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QUOTE (ZunZero97 @ 16 Mar 2017, 7:19) *
Seems you are new in ROTR welcome!
China is focused on overpass the enemy's army, this means in LARGE numbers to gain the bonus called Horde Bonus.


My account is more than a year old laugh.gif
So yes, I do know how China works and everything, I've been playing since about 1.802 update (except I don't post often), but recently, (the things already mentioned everything above)
I was slightly curious about how stale China's gameplay feels,

However again,
It's still just opinionated biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by XoGamer: 16 Mar 2017, 17:10


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__CrUsHeR
post 16 Mar 2017, 19:06
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I did an analysis about some things that I think are not so cool right now in China's faction and that could improve, to make it easier to understand what I said before.

UNITS

Volunteer Squad: It really is just cannon fodder; although it is something relatively effective is not very creative, because it does not have the same dynamics of Angry Mob for exemple; also receive ony the Nationalism upgrade, no receive an ability that makes it more iconic or fun to use.

Hopper: It's practically a copy of Battlemaster (but I find Battlemaster more fun), shares the same upgrades and therefore receives similar benefits, something is missing to make this unit more interesting...

Nukeneer: It makes the use of nuclear energy excessively banal (ZH-style/main-theme problem); is very linear: "hold and fire" and only gets the Nationalism upgrade.

Nuke Cannon: It makes the use of nuclear energy excessively banal (ZH-style/main-theme problem); is very linear: "hold and fire" and only gets the Nationalism upgrade. I preferred a slightly more tactical unit than just a vehicle that would "deploy and vaporize..." specific upgrades or some extra ability could help in this direction.

UPGRADES

Black Napalm: Honestly this upgrade is something that has become redundant due to its being mandatory; You will most likely produce Inferno and Shenlong and due to the fact that you unlock Napalm Strike there will be a 90% chance that you will take this upgrade to maximize your ability to deal damage. Napalm-based units are already capable to do what they are meant to do: Destroy light and medium vehicles and structures (firestorm, Napal Strike) and receive enough benefits for this, the Black Napalm is just a luxury (is in-line with the ZH anthax beta).
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China main theme: At first glance the theme "50s, large-scale nuclear-based weapons, propaganda, electronic warfare, etc." seems to be somewhat saturated but I believe it can still be better explored; for example "propaganda": it could allow more options to the player, maybe some place where the player would choose some specific propaganda and that would bring some specific benefit to all units or a group of units (same mechanics of the USA Strategy Center), or (if possible), choose by clicking on the unit what would be the benefit of the "horde bonus", etc.

In short, are just ideas to stimulate the creativity of the developers in this sense, I would like to see China not so linear....

This post has been edited by SoraZ: 16 Mar 2017, 19:39


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SoraZ
post 16 Mar 2017, 19:46
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QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 16 Mar 2017, 19:06) *
Volunteer Squad: It really is just cannon fodder; although it is something relatively effective is not very creative, because it does not have the same dynamics of Angry Mob for exemple; also receive ony the Nationalism upgrade, no receive an ability that makes it more iconic or fun to use.

It's intentionally cannon fodder, straight-forward spam is China's forte and this unit exemplifies it. It also intentionally doesn't regenerate, because then the unit (due to having 2 missile guys and the regeneration NOT being random) could end up with only missile guys, making it much stronger than intended.

QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 16 Mar 2017, 19:06) *
Hopper: It's practically a copy of Battlemaster (but I find Battlemaster more fun), shares the same upgrades and therefore receives similar benefits, something is missing to make this unit more interesting...

Like the Spotter ability?

QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 16 Mar 2017, 19:06) *
Nukeneer: It makes the use of nuclear energy excessively banal (ZH-style/main-theme problem); is very linear: "hold and fire" and only gets the Nationalism upgrade.

Since it's an exclusive of the "rush in and kill stuff" General Mau, that's intentional. Same is true for the Nuke Cannon.

Mau is not about crazy tricks etc, these two units are perfectly in line with his doctrine. If you want China with dirty tricks, you'll want to play Jin.

QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 16 Mar 2017, 19:06) *
Black Napalm: Honestly this upgrade is something that has become redundant due to its being mandatory; You will most likely produce Inferno and Shenlong and due to the fact that you unlock Napalm Strike there will be a 90% chance that you will take this upgrade to maximize your ability to deal damage. Napalm-based units are already capable to do what they are meant to do: Destroy light and medium vehicles and structures (firestorm, Napal Strike) and receive enough benefits for this, the Black Napalm is just a luxury (is in-line with the ZH anthax beta).

Since it's an exclusive for Mau, this won't change.

QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 16 Mar 2017, 19:06) *
China main theme: At first glance the theme "50s, large-scale nuclear-based weapons, propaganda, electronic warfare, etc." seems to be somewhat saturated but I believe it can still be better explored; for example "propaganda": it could allow more options to the player, maybe some place where the player would choose some specific propaganda and that would bring some specific benefit to all units or a group of units (same mechanics of the USA Strategy Center), or (if possible), choose by clicking on the unit what would be the benefit of the "horde bonus", etc.

In short, are just ideas to stimulate the creativity of the developers in this sense, I would like to see China not so linear....

None of these ideas are feasible in the way China is intended to be played, i.e. straight-forward spam, and some of them are flat-out not codable. Also, there already is a War Propaganda Gen Power that allows you to play around a little more, you might want to try it.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 17 Mar 2017, 4:07
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QUOTE (SoraZ @ 16 Mar 2017, 20:46) *
Like the Spotter ability?

Actually, i agree with this. The spotter ability is pretty useless when listening outposts exist and are untracable most of the time. Not to mention they do the scouting job earlier, cheaper and better.

This post has been edited by {Lads}RikerZZZ: 17 Mar 2017, 4:11


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Lobo Solitario
post 17 Mar 2017, 11:16
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1) Maybe wait until the generals are out, as at least one of them looks like he will diversify China's gameplay quite a lot - right now it's a mess of units from different generals
2) Play a different faction? The whole point of the factions is to cater to different playstyles - China is the one for the "C&C" players who like straightforward spam. If the faction is changed, or made more complex to suit one set of players' tastes, another set of players will be left out.
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(USA)Bruce
post 18 Mar 2017, 18:46
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QUOTE (NikCaputnic @ 14 Mar 2017, 18:52) *
IMHO, there are only two things which need texture updates. First is the Hummvee: sharper door textures, and some more details on its frontal hood, like more sharper texture of its air- intaker, nothing more. Another one is IL-76 Candid: its texture is actually OK, but the model seems to have too boxy engines (they seem not round, but like made of rectangles placed in the form of circle).


For reasons I cannot say the IL-76 wont be getting an update ph34r.gif

As for the nukeneers, they just need to get rid of that pesky prefire delay so you can use them like the starcraft 2 protoss shuttle, hit and run style with troop crawlers


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 18 Mar 2017, 22:39
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Warp Prism* Bruce.
Shuttles were in sc1.

But yeah, drop nukes would be amazing biggrin.gif


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(USA)Bruce
post 18 Mar 2017, 23:13
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 19 Mar 2017, 0:39) *
Warp Prism* Bruce.
Shuttles were in sc1.

But yeah, drop nukes would be amazing biggrin.gif


I was Indeed quoting shuttles from starcraft 1 cause the cattapillar robot thingy isnt in starcraft 2 bro


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ZunZero97
post 24 Mar 2017, 21:03
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Im agree to add a new technology to China


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 24 Mar 2017, 22:34
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Honestly, what more could you add to china that they dont have already?


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XoGamer
post 25 Mar 2017, 10:02
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More mines...?
Mine upgrade?
Idk nvm, I don't want to turn this into suggestions thread


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XAttus
post 25 Mar 2017, 13:31
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 24 Mar 2017, 22:34) *
Honestly, what more could you add to china that they dont have already?


Something to kill the motherfucking Boris with - without spending GPs.


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