IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

2 Pages V   1 2 >  
Reply to this topicStart new topic
Lets get Crazy :, Superweapon discussion:
Mizo
post 11 Apr 2017, 22:38
Post #1


AI Coding Expert
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 1575
Joined: 9 May 2014
From: Poland
Member No.: 10450



As you all know, a good majority of people hate playing with SWs. In 1.87, the cooldown ti.ers has been prolonged that made them more acceptable to play with albiet some are either unsatisfied or hate SW games to the bone.

Yet, there is a gameplay setting that none of us tried, which is unlimited SWs. As crazy as it may sound, I did have some games with my wife and we both agreed that while insane, it was still fun.

So, what would matches look like with these settings inmind? Would anyone actually be willing to go for it? What's your opinion on it as a whole?


--------------------


Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 11 Apr 2017, 22:49
Post #2


Certified Shitposter
Group Icon

Group: Donator
Posts: 2249
Joined: 30 December 2013
From: Straya'
Member No.: 10248
pls join my games im lonely =c



I've played a few of these with bruce and honestly, they kinda suck.

Because super weapons re still at a high price, if youre behind (or have a faction that needs lots of unit investment to stay relevant), you either dont have time to get super weapons and/or if your enemy gets multiple of them you cant really catch up.
When you're in the behind position, it sucks balls and is no fun to play against.

i remember back during the god tier patch i think it was bruce and I did some multiple super weapon games and they were actually okay because the access was there. Because you could build a counter and because things were much faster it worked well.

So my opinion, it could work as a standard playstyle (even if the limit was raised to 3) if the super weapons were back to the cheap easy to acquire state they had before.


--------------------

Many thanks to IvanMRM for my avatar and Star for drawing my epic signature. You guys rock!
Also, check out our ROTR - Fan group on Facebook.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Maelstrom
post 11 Apr 2017, 23:22
Post #3


Ze Big Cheese
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 399
Joined: 19 May 2013
Member No.: 9941



To me superweapons could be an alternative to destructive GPs, that you get through teching and money, rather than XP grinding.

Lowering their cost would be an option (3500 sounds ok), but something else should be done to balance it (more fragile, longer cooldown, not sure).

BUT, getting back to when it was 2500 is a no-go for me. It's the price of a T2 building. Which means quite cheap for such a thing. A nuke silo that cheap is just a no-brainer. It's $500 more expensive than a nuke cannon, hard to kill, and WAY more destructive.


--------------------

My Soundcloud profile: right here
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 11 Apr 2017, 23:28
Post #4


Certified Shitposter
Group Icon

Group: Donator
Posts: 2249
Joined: 30 December 2013
From: Straya'
Member No.: 10248
pls join my games im lonely =c



do remember it took 8 mins to fire that "slightly more expensive" nuke cannon and that your enemy had the same level of power.


--------------------

Many thanks to IvanMRM for my avatar and Star for drawing my epic signature. You guys rock!
Also, check out our ROTR - Fan group on Facebook.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Maelstrom
post 11 Apr 2017, 23:35
Post #5


Ze Big Cheese
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 399
Joined: 19 May 2013
Member No.: 9941



Nuke cannons take ages to construct, and require a GP.
Plus, when constructed, it's slow as hell, takes ages to deploy, has limited range, and can be taken down by a single fighter (the cheapest costing 1000).

Try taking down a fully constructed nuke missile in a single volley of a single mig, I think you may encounter some trouble.

Now I think of it, SWs could require more power in exchange of a lower cost. Thoughts ?


--------------------

My Soundcloud profile: right here
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 11 Apr 2017, 23:49
Post #6


Certified Shitposter
Group Icon

Group: Donator
Posts: 2249
Joined: 30 December 2013
From: Straya'
Member No.: 10248
pls join my games im lonely =c



More power, no (usa and russia would struggle in that regard) but lower health, maybe.

2500/3000 at half the current health it could work.


--------------------

Many thanks to IvanMRM for my avatar and Star for drawing my epic signature. You guys rock!
Also, check out our ROTR - Fan group on Facebook.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mizo
post 12 Apr 2017, 6:41
Post #7


AI Coding Expert
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 1575
Joined: 9 May 2014
From: Poland
Member No.: 10450



Lower health would render building them useless and further promote SW snipes.


--------------------


Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Marakar
post 12 Apr 2017, 11:59
Post #8



Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 331
Joined: 30 June 2015
From: Game anyone?
Member No.: 11665



I'd be willing to try out that game mode, though theres a few things to understand with unlimited SW:


> ECA Meta will now shift towards pure bunkering in which ECA doesn't have to survive till R5 to win always (its still a good requirement but regardless ECA will have chances pre-r5 in 1v1s).
> SW Rush will become much stronger considering you can spend more than 3.5k on SWs.
> Topols/Missile Silo War vs ECA will be back.
> US will have more fun with multiple Particle Cannons, which will pretty much make it king in 1v1s in high level play.

But most importantly, late game might go completely extinct (or become as rare as Super Late game) with current HP and Cost of SWs.


--------------------


Drop Commander
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mizo
post 12 Apr 2017, 14:53
Post #9


AI Coding Expert
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 1575
Joined: 9 May 2014
From: Poland
Member No.: 10450



QUOTE
Topols/Missile Silo War vs ECA will be back.


This wont as bad as prior to SW meta due to cost inefficiency. Then again, SW timers.....


--------------------


Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
XoGamer
post 12 Apr 2017, 17:53
Post #10


Tactically Toxic
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 98
Joined: 29 February 2016
Member No.: 12634



Wait, so you guys play with limited SW?

lol, I thought all high level plays play with unlimited - that's what I do.

I think SW timers and prices are fine, Nuke Cannon - not so much tongue.gif, though maybe you could just make SW slightly less destructive whilst keeping the same price and maybe slightly smaller timer - then you can have unlimited SW but they won't be sooo OP.


--------------------
"It'll be a NUCLEAR winter, this year General." - General Tao
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
(USA)Bruce
post 12 Apr 2017, 20:36
Post #11


The Forums American Hotshot Flyboy
Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 2486
Joined: 22 November 2012
From: The foundation of modern freedom and Liberty;United States of America.
Member No.: 9500



QUOTE (XoGamer @ 12 Apr 2017, 19:53) *
Wait, so you guys play with limited SW?

lol, I thought all high level plays play with unlimited - that's what I do.

I think SW timers and prices are fine, Nuke Cannon - not so much tongue.gif, though maybe you could just make SW slightly less destructive whilst keeping the same price and maybe slightly smaller timer - then you can have unlimited SW but they won't be sooo OP.



Was waiting for someone, no hoping that there was someone out there that thinks the same,

Reducing the aoe of some SW's in exchange of less of a CD while reducing its HP and timer, oh and increase its size and powercost.

BAM!

FIXED!

Next?


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GeneralAziz
post 12 Apr 2017, 20:41
Post #12



Group Icon

Group: Donator
Posts: 168
Joined: 25 January 2016
From: Kuwait
Member No.: 12539



I am willing to try it in high level games and see how many can we really get on the the board XD


This post has been edited by GeneralAziz: 12 Apr 2017, 20:43


--------------------
You'll never know when the Sabowatch hit you !
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jl319
post 13 Apr 2017, 4:45
Post #13



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 1 April 2017
From: Philippines
Member No.: 14916



Played on SWRnet with Dremon 3 days ago, he didn't set the SW limit, so I turtled and built 4 Solar Relays (I got to fire over 10 Solar Bursts, too laugh.gif ). The game lasted a near hour, and I had a lot of fun, even if I got my just desserts in the end. IMO, SWs shouldn't be a problem, as the increased timer just gives you more time to counter them. Besides, ECA Pandora Protocol, SWs are the only advantage of that, pretty much.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
XoGamer
post 13 Apr 2017, 9:09
Post #14


Tactically Toxic
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 98
Joined: 29 February 2016
Member No.: 12634



Was the game balanced for limited SWs or unlimited SWs?

@USABruce - Reducing HP and AOE, Increasing size and powercost seem like way too many nerfs for just reduced timer; unless you meant something else that's what I understood tongue.gif, what does CD stand for? Countdown? That's the same as timer huh.gif

I think the main problem is ECA Turtling and damn Topols - really Russia and ECA are unbalanced sometimes way too op with very little weaknesses however I'm not sure if it's the devs concern but I was watching a lot of replays recently of high level players like Marakar and Skitt etc.
Most of the players play either Russia or ECA, while USA is slightly less common and China and GLA are quite rare to see.

In most C&C games you can tell the most OP factions by watching what most of the pros play.

This post has been edited by XoGamer: 13 Apr 2017, 9:12


--------------------
"It'll be a NUCLEAR winter, this year General." - General Tao
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Maelstrom
post 13 Apr 2017, 10:32
Post #15


Ze Big Cheese
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 399
Joined: 19 May 2013
Member No.: 9941



QUOTE (XoGamer @ 13 Apr 2017, 10:09) *
Was the game balanced for limited SWs or unlimited SWs?

The game was balanced for 10k start, limited SWs.
Other settings are only used for compstomps or fun matches (ah the memories of 900k matches biggrin.gif)


--------------------

My Soundcloud profile: right here
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
jl319
post 13 Apr 2017, 10:59
Post #16



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 14
Joined: 1 April 2017
From: Philippines
Member No.: 14916



QUOTE (Maelstrom @ 13 Apr 2017, 17:32) *
The game was balanced for 10k start, limited SWs.
Other settings are only used for compstomps or fun matches (ah the memories of 900k matches biggrin.gif)


Awww... there goes my fun with the ECA Pandora Protocol sad.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Maelstrom
post 13 Apr 2017, 11:28
Post #17


Ze Big Cheese
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 399
Joined: 19 May 2013
Member No.: 9941



QUOTE (jl319 @ 13 Apr 2017, 11:59) *
Awww... there goes my fun with the ECA Pandora Protocol sad.gif

Let me clarify. it has been balanced that way for competitive matches.
Nobody prevents you from having a good time with friends and uncheck that box. I did that with my brother, start with 20-25k, unlimited SW, and 2v2 vs bots. Pandora does wonders here wink.gif
We had a stream once with XAttus, 1v1s with 900k start. Was a lot of fun (balance was thrown out of the window, because 900k start for Russia is insanity). We experienced the GLORIOUS 1fps gameplay, when a player had the good idea to use smokes biggrin.gif

Fun is allowed, outside of tryhard and comptetitive matches smile.gif


--------------------

My Soundcloud profile: right here
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mizo
post 13 Apr 2017, 12:29
Post #18


AI Coding Expert
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 1575
Joined: 9 May 2014
From: Poland
Member No.: 10450



QUOTE
really Russia and ECA are unbalanced sometimes way too op with very little weaknesses however I'm not sure if it's the devs concern but I was watching a lot of replays recently of high level players like Marakar and Skitt etc.
Most of the players play either Russia or ECA, while USA is slightly less common and China and GLA are quite rare to see.



Russia is understandably played often due to them being rather easy. ECA is.....well I've only seen 1-2 pub players that play ECA correctly aside from Skittles, other players often don't really know what they're doing.
As for ZOMAGODIMBALANENEWFACTIONS.....eh UsA and China are still top tier. GLA is also up high though with the bombardment of nerfs that they got might make them less appealing. Russia is mid tier, and ECA is shit tier ( only uber in team games). Ofcourse this is from high skill level prespectice, where USA roflstomps everyone, China can do everything and Russia and GLA bruteforces everyone, with ECA being the 'I loose' faction biggrin.gif


--------------------


Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 13 Apr 2017, 14:25
Post #19


Certified Shitposter
Group Icon

Group: Donator
Posts: 2249
Joined: 30 December 2013
From: Straya'
Member No.: 10248
pls join my games im lonely =c



anything above 10k with the super weapon limit is fun, but it gets old very fast without the tension and risk reward factor the 10k comp game has.

Getting back on topic, i agree with bruce about the nuke to be honest. Less aoe, but more damage (so it can kill a fucking sent its a nuke ffs) and a shorter cooldown would be a great change.

As for this
QUOTE
Lower health would render building them useless and further promote SW snipes.


It would promote sw snipes, but i dont see an issue with that, Maybe not a 50% reduction to what we have now, but more like a 75% from now, so it takes 1+1/2 gp's to kill rather than 2 if you catch my drift.

Anyway i think super weapon sniping with a limit of 3 super weapons would be a brilliant idea for not only ending the tedious crawl that is the late game, but also for pve players too.
Because lets be honest, weve all been caught out of position by the ai when they suddenly have a super weapon just blow your ass to next Tuesday, and its frustrating (especially with the new ai that WILL finish you off) to play against.

Whist i dont agree that the late game will go "extinct" I do agree it will take a huge hit, and im in huge favour of that.
Killing some of rotr's overbearing defenders advantage and its campiness is always a positive in my book.
Not ony is it just boring to play, but its taxing on computer performance too, so speeding everything up (especially with big explosions and lasers) is a far more C&C and just generally fun way of helping that out.

Ive said it before and ill say it again. Rotr peaked in the golden patch internal with the 2.5k super weapons, and I would love to see some of that fun return. Maybe 3k super weapons at the least, but man. Im sorry to everyone who missed that patch, but you guys missed out on some of the best pvp gameplay experiences this mod had to offer.


--------------------

Many thanks to IvanMRM for my avatar and Star for drawing my epic signature. You guys rock!
Also, check out our ROTR - Fan group on Facebook.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mizo
post 13 Apr 2017, 14:53
Post #20


AI Coding Expert
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 1575
Joined: 9 May 2014
From: Poland
Member No.: 10450



Back when warfactories would shut down without power? GOLDEN!

This post has been edited by Mizo: 13 Apr 2017, 14:53


--------------------


Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 13 Apr 2017, 14:58
Post #21


Certified Shitposter
Group Icon

Group: Donator
Posts: 2249
Joined: 30 December 2013
From: Straya'
Member No.: 10248
pls join my games im lonely =c



youre right, that was shit, but the rest was... smmuaa wub.gif


--------------------

Many thanks to IvanMRM for my avatar and Star for drawing my epic signature. You guys rock!
Also, check out our ROTR - Fan group on Facebook.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Knjaz.
post 13 Apr 2017, 17:09
Post #22



Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 1808
Joined: 29 May 2012
Member No.: 9155



QUOTE (XoGamer @ 13 Apr 2017, 11:09) *
Was the game balanced for limited SWs or unlimited SWs?

@USABruce - Reducing HP and AOE, Increasing size and powercost seem like way too many nerfs for just reduced timer; unless you meant something else that's what I understood tongue.gif, what does CD stand for? Countdown? That's the same as timer huh.gif

I think the main problem is ECA Turtling and damn Topols - really Russia and ECA are unbalanced sometimes way too op with very little weaknesses however I'm not sure if it's the devs concern but I was watching a lot of replays recently of high level players like Marakar and Skitt etc.
Most of the players play either Russia or ECA, while USA is slightly less common and China and GLA are quite rare to see.

In most C&C games you can tell the most OP factions by watching what most of the pros play.


Until 1.87 it was balanced for no SWs, after 1.87 - limited SWs.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Umpfelgrumpf
post 13 Apr 2017, 17:29
Post #23



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 233
Joined: 29 September 2013
Member No.: 10149



QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 13 Apr 2017, 15:25) *
Ive said it before and ill say it again. Rotr peaked in the golden patch internal with the 2.5k super weapons, and I would love to see some of that fun return. Maybe 3k super weapons at the least, but man. Im sorry to everyone who missed that patch, but you guys missed out on some of the best pvp gameplay experiences this mod had to offer.


Could you give some more information about why that patch was so awesome?
Were cheap SW's the best part or was there something else?
I'm interested^^


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Skitt
post 13 Apr 2017, 18:04
Post #24



Group Icon

Group: Moderator
Posts: 1439
Joined: 8 January 2015
From: Newcastle, England
Member No.: 10811
Aut vincere aut mori, Cave quid dicis, quando, et cui, De duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum.



on one hand the 2.5k sw's were fun it was nice to have them earlier, plus who doesn't love massive destruction more frequent with and without the sw lim.

on the other hand however i detested it, games were over too quick and i prefer longer matchs.


--------------------
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
XoGamer
post 13 Apr 2017, 18:08
Post #25


Tactically Toxic
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 98
Joined: 29 February 2016
Member No.: 12634



Just leave the SWs as they are, but then maybe they should be balanced so that competitive play features unlimited SWs allowed


--------------------
"It'll be a NUCLEAR winter, this year General." - General Tao
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

2 Pages V   1 2 >
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 30 May 2017 - 6:33