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Pandora: Counter Offensive, how to properly counter attack upon choosing pandora protocol
M01
post 18 Jan 2017, 11:52
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Title and sub title says it all:

After a long while of not choosing the Pandora protocol I found it hard to launch a counter offensive using Pandora protocol

I know Pandora protocol is a defensive protocol but I did heard some players that can mount a counter attack with the said protocol

If possible a guide for PvP and PvE is much appreciated. blush.gif
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XCABAL
post 18 Jan 2017, 12:12
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Pandora is more along the lines of "Hold up in your base and spam SWs" from my experience anyway.


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X1Destroy
post 18 Jan 2017, 12:18
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Basically, base crawling and neutron mining+nerve gas strikes and bomb on enemy vehicles arounds his WFs. Repeat it till you reach his base.

If SW is allowed, obviously you will want to have more than one after you picked Pandora. Burn everything.

Games with Pandora tend to be very long and may often end up in crashes due to so many weird shits being used, and SAGE hate that.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 18 Jan 2017, 12:19


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Mizo
post 18 Jan 2017, 13:29
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Pandora is anything but defensive and s of now is the most powerful protocol out of thr 3 , by a LONG shot.

Let me explain why, so in the new meta most secondary economy's health had been reduced to be easier to snipe.
This means that ECA options in economy harassment improved significantly. You have instant bulldogs, smart bombs that can one shot them, Commandos that excel at killing Russian amd Chinese economies specifically, grandslam agaonst ECA and USA economies ect... that's excluding howitzer and claymore options. On top of that they also possess the Solaris relay, which gives ECA an option to use certain combos with it to wipe out huge portions of enemy secondary economy.

Now why am I rambling alot about secondary economy? Because in order to break a well developed ECA, you meed substantial economy to replace the losses you will get when trying to break the line.

Scrap that with Pandora, you get 3 additional economy wiping capabilities in addition to army one-shotting potential, via Neutron bombs, nerve gas , pandora itself, and the solar apocolypse. All that bonus ..... for free ( excluding upgrade cost ).

This is insane, because Manticore and Venoms both require that you yourself need to get secondary economy to build in your 'buffed forces'. Not with Pandora though because you get to use your protocol at max efficiency without spending an extra dime, as well as being capable to wipe out armies in 1 shot, which due to the fact that secondary economy is harder to amass, will make it harder/ impossible for the enemy to replace losses.

It's basically a click to win at the moment, arguably broken even.


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Hanfield
post 18 Jan 2017, 14:07
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Internal games have shown that one does not even need to build the unit itself to cause grievous harm to the enemy - Knjaz completely forgot to build one and managed to 1v2 me and Mizo [both being Russias] purely through GP's and standard units


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Rohan
post 18 Jan 2017, 20:48
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 18 Jan 2017, 17:59) *
Pandora is anything but defensive and s of now is the most powerful protocol out of thr 3 , by a LONG shot.



QUOTE (Hanfield @ 18 Jan 2017, 18:37) *
Internal


It's no longer Russian Stronk, it's Pandora Stronk !!


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Skitt
post 18 Jan 2017, 20:56
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pritty much ^^
its a game ender vs russia and china. just obliterate there eco while pummeling them to death with arty


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Mizo
post 18 Jan 2017, 21:05
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QUOTE
It's no longer Russian Stronk, it's Pandora Stronk !!


No Russia is still stronk. ECA is still underwhelming when it comes to 1v1 atleast. It's just that Pandora really just seals your victory in case you reach to that point, which is....rare.


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Omnius64
post 18 Jan 2017, 22:04
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 18 Jan 2017, 13:29) *
Pandora is anything but defensive and s of now is the most powerful protocol out of thr 3 , by a LONG shot.

Let me explain why, so in the new meta most secondary economy's health had been reduced to be easier to snipe.
This means that ECA options in economy harassment improved significantly. You have instant bulldogs, smart bombs that can one shot them, Commandos that excel at killing Russian amd Chinese economies specifically, grandslam agaonst ECA and USA economies ect... that's excluding howitzer and claymore options. On top of that they also possess the Solaris relay, which gives ECA an option to use certain combos with it to wipe out huge portions of enemy secondary economy.

Now why am I rambling alot about secondary economy? Because in order to break a well developed ECA, you meed substantial economy to replace the losses you will get when trying to break the line.

Scrap that with Pandora, you get 3 additional economy wiping capabilities in addition to army one-shotting potential, via Neutron bombs, nerve gas , pandora itself, and the solar apocolypse. All that bonus ..... for free ( excluding upgrade cost ).

This is insane, because Manticore and Venoms both require that you yourself need to get secondary economy to build in your 'buffed forces'. Not with Pandora though because you get to use your protocol at max efficiency without spending an extra dime, as well as being capable to wipe out armies in 1 shot, which due to the fact that secondary economy is harder to amass, will make it harder/ impossible for the enemy to replace losses.

It's basically a click to win at the moment, arguably broken even.


Wait a minute, what does Bulldogs and Commandos have to do with the Pandora protocol?. Have I missed something?
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Skitt
post 18 Jan 2017, 22:42
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QUOTE (Omnius64 @ 18 Jan 2017, 21:04) *
Wait a minute, what does Bulldogs and Commandos have to do with the Pandora protocol?. Have I missed something?

its the combination effect.

commandos + r2 bulldog + neutron bomb + sw(solar apocalypse) + pandora + nerve gas = screw ur eco, screw your infantry, screw your tanks, screw your t2 structure, and gtfo my map basicly


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Scud
post 18 Jan 2017, 22:59
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May I suggest to spam some icarus mines in front and around the pandora, it works wonders against hinds that use goliath and those fast vipers/little birds.


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M01
post 19 Jan 2017, 6:16
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QUOTE (Skitt @ 19 Jan 2017, 5:42) *
its the combination effect.

commandos + r2 bulldog + neutron bomb + sw(solar apocalypse) + pandora + nerve gas = screw ur eco, screw your infantry, screw your tanks, screw your t2 structure, and gtfo my map basicly


does this always work though?
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Mizo
post 19 Jan 2017, 7:15
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Yes it works, and it's brokenly overpowered. There is just no recovery after that.

Granted that is if ECA survives early - mid game.

You might argue that they deserve this power as a reward of surviving, but it reached a point were the GP picks and combos as well as picking Pandora became such a no brainer, that it heavily tips the match to ECA's favour. No faction in the game is capable of deleting economy like that for free ( arguably GLA can, but that's limited to 2-3 factions). It's just too good.

There were 2v2s that I managed to starve a late game developed Russia ( Knjaz ) and China ( Xattus ) while only operating on 2 telecom towers , and relying on my GLA ally to finish them off. This protocol really tips the scale off completely.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 19 Jan 2017, 7:17


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Scud
post 19 Jan 2017, 12:50
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Mizo, didn't the dev team though about (if it's possible with SAGE limitations) to put a minimum deploy range to the bulldog's turrrets to make them a defensive GP only?

This post has been edited by Scud: 19 Jan 2017, 12:50


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M01
post 19 Jan 2017, 13:27
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QUOTE (Scud @ 19 Jan 2017, 19:50) *
Mizo, didn't the dev team though about (if it's possible with SAGE limitations) to put a minimum deploy range to the bulldog's turrrets to make them a defensive GP only?


Wouldn't it make the turret less effective in defending against fast targets...
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Knjaz.
post 19 Jan 2017, 13:51
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QUOTE (Scud @ 19 Jan 2017, 13:50) *
Mizo, didn't the dev team though about (if it's possible with SAGE limitations) to put a minimum deploy range to the bulldog's turrrets to make them a defensive GP only?


Don't fix what's not broken - being, commandos, smart bomb or bulldog, defense-oriented ECA has those, as well as bomblets (that potentially need some tuning), as a means of enemy harassment it has to use to stand a chance vs "turtle in eco develop" tactics.

It's Pandora's offensive eco harassment capabilities where the issue lies. The protocol is seriously overpowered for the current average amount of income a person has in lategame, compared to before, due to SWs being... introduced into the meta.

All that taken into account, I wouldn't mind a friggin "Deploy" button on Pandora itself...

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 19 Jan 2017, 13:54
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M01
post 19 Jan 2017, 14:11
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QUOTE (Knjaz. @ 19 Jan 2017, 20:51) *
All that taken into account, I wouldn't mind a friggin "Deploy" button on Pandora itself...


cause the damned thing doesn't stand still after being bumped a excavator

but then again wouldn't it make it harder for it to relocate if it has that ability?
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Knjaz.
post 19 Jan 2017, 15:04
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QUOTE (M01 @ 19 Jan 2017, 15:11) *
cause the damned thing doesn't stand still after being bumped a excavator

but then again wouldn't it make it harder for it to relocate if it has that ability?


Not at all, look at Nuke Cannon. Pandora already has to deploy and undeploy, just can't be ordered to do so in advance.


Also, I have no clue why I'm the only one noticing it, but Pandora's turret turn rate is slower than it's chassis turn rate. It's 40 for Pandora itself and 30 for the gun. Which means, there's absolutely zero reason to order your pandora to attack enemies coming from sides or rear, it's always more beneficial to turn the vehicle itself if it's undeployed.

This post has been edited by Knjaz.: 19 Jan 2017, 15:05
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