balance, RUSSIA vs USA vs CHINA Options

[Commander-GDI]

first of all thanks for this awesome mod!! (which will even become better with the coming updates I m sure)

I'v already played many battles with my friends on LAN. We found that Russia vs USA is quit equal, but we all found that its really hard for China to beat Russia. Either we dont how to play China or they need a little more power. I mostly play Russia anyways, but equal games are more interesting


I find this might be some reasons:

- Sentinel > Overlord (that even needs a general point)
- Hinds > China helicopter
- Grumble >Twin-Flak
- China has no radar scan (Edit: sorry forget about the "Radar Intercepts", thats allright then..)
- Russia has Blackout Nodes

only advantage for China I see is Nuke canon (that needs another generals point) > MSTA

what do others think?

This post has been edited by Commander-GDI: 28 Apr 2012, 22:01

[GeneralCamo]

Perhaps a little testing with other people might be nessesary. I am willing to test it with you.

Join the Hamachi Network NoNama (no pass), and talk to me there.

[Warpath]

Have you tried using spam attacks since the chinese has cheaper unith compared to Russia and the USA.

[Shiro]

Also depends on what money you guys are playing. ROTR is balanced with 10k starting credits in mind because the biggest disadvantage for the Russians are their hideous prices and if those fall flat Russia can steamroll anyone early game. As for China, a bit unusual for a zerg rush faction you have a wealth of options due to their support abilities.

Some basic tactics:
-Always spam low-class. Don't spam high-class units. Since your units become better in groups make groups of at least double the minimum bonus-required size and keep them in some lose formation with Ctrl+F and always use the number keys to switch between different groups. Buy the upgrade only when you really have enough money to spare which you actually shouldn't. The all-time favourite tactic was and still is "Build more TANKS."

-Always propaganda. Fancy singing works wonders. Your units become more powerful, fire faster and get healed. The Subliminal Messages upgrade is crucial because it's so cheap. Two Overlords for 2000 dollars each isnt exactly cheap but should suffice as the main units in your attack force. As above, use Ctrl+F so they don't fall out of line. One needs the tower, the other preferably a bunker with Flak Hunters. If you're up against GLA, use the Gatling Cannon instead.

-Always cover. Even compared to other factions Chinese infantry are brittle so unless your enemy has lots of garrison cleaners and structure destroyers put them in damned buildings. You have bunkers which are about the sturdiest defense line and like all buildings grant your infantry a range bonus. Abuse it.

-Always money. Unlike the other factions China has absolutely no problem with money due to its amount of Hackers. You have the Internet Center which is designed to withstand a nuke or a particle beam for example, so give your Hackers a place to work in safely and faster.

-Electronical Warfare: China's second military muscle are its unmatched electronical abilities. Against missiles you have ECM Tanks. Your enemy spams vehicles? Yeah you have ECM Tanks. Those nice bubble things they can deploy deactivate enemy vehicles and airplanes causing the latter to crash. Use Hackers when in a pinch but they should usually stay at home and empty the bank account of some random VIP because they don't need the money as much as you do.

-EMP: ROTR's China has enough EMP your enemy should theoretically never be able to attack you with anything other than infantry. Nuke Cannon EMP shells last longer than they need to reload. Han Helis drop EMP bomb at much the same rate. And you have the ever-popular EMP bomb.

-Nuclear warfare: The third aspect to China. Depleted Uranium shells, nuclear reactors, Nuclear Power Plants, Nuke Cannons, Tactical Nuke Missiles, Strategic Nuke Missiles. Nuke weapons are powerful and leave radiation. When your upgraded tanks are low on health, drive at the enemy. You can still shoot and should you explode you might be able to take some health off their units. But with a Propaganda blimp and a MiG escort your units shouldn't die anytime soon if you are careful. Only be reckless when you're in a pinch, even throw-away units such as Red Guards or Battlemasters are always better to be repaired rather than rebuild as the former is for free.

-Kill it with fire: Nuclear fire not withstanding, your enemy's base should be a smoking crater after you set a fire-storm with MiGs. Don't use Inferno Cannons, they're too slow to be of any help and cannot clean garrisons, unlike Dragon Tanks. Abuse the sweep attack to abandon when at your enemy's base and deny infantry enter. Always have a few Gatling Tanks and a Twinfang against pesky airplanes trying to snipe your main units.

This post has been edited by SorataZ: 29 Apr 2012, 9:23

[NergiZed]

RotR hilariously favors the Russians if you play with money more than 10k. Otherwise it's fairly ballanced, however, it's harder to play China as China needs to horde up some units to be effective. Micro-ing hordes is generally much harder than micro-ing a few, good units (Russia and US). China relies heavily on a superior economy and stacking buffs with props and horde, without those three working well in conjunction, things get tough. Other factions, with their 'click-and-forget' upgrades are much easier to handle. (Though it's hard to micro the US's airforce, I frequently find half my helos blown away because they were going to fast and either didn't turn around fast enough or simply didn't get selected and fly straight into enemy fire)

Also, yeah, Twin Fang is the kinda crap compared to the other tier 2 AAs by most criteria (i.e., being able to down aircraft flying at you, especially those trying to knock out AA). Grumble and Chaps can generally kill their intended target after death, as the missiles have already been fired. Ural can do the same, except it's stealthed and doesn't have a 'clip' like the other AAs (and is imo, the best out of all of them, as you can't target them without scanning the area beforehand. They're even stealthed when firing from shroud).

I tried to do some testing regarding the AA matter a few weeks ago, (basically AI-stomped and capped half their bases) found out that the heavy missile AAs can't do team damage. So I positioned one of each type of AA beyond a ridge at the other side of which was a supply dock with Ospreys trying to collect supplies (the US faction had a Supple drop, so he just kept building them). This test failed as well; do you know why?: Because it was outside the Twin Fang's attack range. FUUUUUuuuuuuuuuu.........

So yeah, Twin Fang sucks bollux.

@Sorataz
Regarding the EMP: first off, needs gen point for the Nuke cannon one. Sedondly, I'd almost always prefer the Han's flamers over the EMP, in fact, I don't think I've ever bothered using beyond the first time I've tried it out. When I've got normal Hans, I generally upgrade a half with flamers; when tac nukes are available, the other half become tac nukes.

With China, I will almost always unlock nukes, especially versus Russia. You simply can't hold out for long without a few good nuke cannons at your back bombing the front, infernos are just bloody terrible.

This post has been edited by NergiZed: 28 Apr 2012, 11:35

[Commander-GDI]

thanks for the advises guys, and yeah we always started with 20'000 $, could make a difference in ballance.

-Always money. Unlike the other factions China has absolutely no problem with money due to its amount of Hackers. You have the Internet Center which is designed to withstand a nuke or a particle beam for example, so give your Hackers a place to work in safely and faster.

don't agree with that, with just 9 hackers in the internet center you have very little money and hackers outside are very vulnerable... and destroying the internet center with a combination of bombs/attacks is not that hard at all.

i still think to make the Chinese equal they need at least a radar scan (like in shockwave) to reveal enemy arms suppliers and grumbles..

[Comr4de]

Try playing with 10,000, me and my friends endup having a blast with that and it's what we usually base it over.

That may help a bit, but do tell us some feedback. Always helps =)

[SpiralSpectre]

Good to hear people pointing out how terrible the Inferno Cannons are. I started to think that it was just me not being able to see it's potential.

[MARS]

I'm actually inclined to agree on that particular point as well. As it stands, Inferno Cannons simply don't have much going for them.

[Comr4de]

Funny - I also agree.





How the fuck did anyone not say anything about this? I thought it was just me
(hell we're still just a mod team after all you vultures!)

[GeneralCamo]

Indeed, with this, China can beat russia. I played multiplayer with china vs. Russia (10K of course) and while russia killed my first few defense units, my han gunships were able to have enough distraction to come in and finish them off with nukes. He was defeated soon after.

[The_Hunter]

Inferno cannons are only good in pairs of 3 or more.

Do note however that they are Tier 1 units meaning the are availible before most other factions can even build artillery at all.

[SpiralSpectre]

I take that's one of the changes in the coming version? I think 1.5 Inferno Cannon requires Breeder Reactor.

Again this ain't my place and stuff to analyse but IMO a tier 1 artillery sounds nice but it wouldn't be that practical, at least not for China. China needs to get to tier 2 real fast, they have to keep hoarding infantry and tanks in early game. By the time they can look into artillery they would be way past tier 1. Ofc I ain't exactly what they call a regular player so I can be dead wrong about this.

This post has been edited by SpiralSpectre: 28 Apr 2012, 18:39

[Commander-GDI]

Yep in 1.5 the Infermo Cannon requires Breeder Recator.

[GeneralCamo]

If the inferno cannon could get anti-tank shells or something like that, it would be very useful. Maybe make it a tier two upgrade?

This post has been edited by Generalcamo: 29 Apr 2012, 2:25

[GeneralCamo]

Could you guys also attempt to balance this game for money amounts higher then 10000? A lot of players do just that.

[Shiro]

And how would one do that?

[MARS]

Tis probably impossible, considering the vast differences in gameplay between a 10k and, say, a 50k game. There's simply no way to make it all equally functional for all settings.