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The Blackout Node, And its fridge logic
GeneralCamo
post 22 May 2013, 20:22
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Alright, so we all know about the Blackout Node. It's used to cover up bases, and protect them from super-weapons

But apparently, things are going way too far. Now we are attaching it to space installations, units, and a large Russian uprising. The fridge logic here is huge.

In-Game, the Blackout node turns everything Black around it, making it unable to be attacked by super-weapons. Now then, here is where things get strange. This shows up as pure black in an obvious circle. MARS earlier suggested that Russian satellites are equipped with these. Do you not think NASA would see this huge hole in their radar? This might work for Guided Missiles, as maybe the Blackout node messes with the target recognition when it nears these things. But a Particle Cannon? These are adjusted on the ground: No on-board computer required, unless you want to make the entire system useless to the United States (Which obviously, does not happen!!).

Seriously, stop using Blackout Nodes for everything under the sun!

This post has been edited by Generalcamo: 22 May 2013, 20:23
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__CrUsHeR
post 22 May 2013, 20:35
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I have to agree with you that I also found this assertion of MARS very strange, I do not know exactly what is the technology of Blackout Node but certainly not could avoid an attack of particles because NASA tracks the satalites in space by signal intercepting, magnetic pulses among other techniques, and even if they could not view the satellite they certainly would know its exact spatial location.

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Talonek
post 22 May 2013, 20:37
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Take the diameter of the sphere, find the radius, aim for center, and set a timed detonator on the warhead to detonate at the center of the mass.

Although, there could be much more to the blackout node that causes it to function this way. Maybe the US and ECA don't want to target sattelites, causing both sides to target sattelites, much like the accidental bombing of London that started the raids on cities in WWII. Nobody, except the GLA, would want the destruction of a global communications and locational information network, it would only cause horrendous difficulties for all factions (except the GLA).

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Pepo
post 22 May 2013, 21:15
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The russians still have nuclear missiles.if their capital is destroy,usa and eca will suffer a nuclear counter attack,qnd the earth will go to waste=gla victory wink.gif
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MARS
post 22 May 2013, 21:21
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Quite honestly? Blackout Nodes were established at a time when I had nothing to do with our lore and they were ignored for the most part throughout the story due to the inherent oddness of the in-game technology. I only use them as a handwave whenever the inherent issues of large-scale troop movements, key surface installations or other vulnerable assets occur due to narrative reasons. Modern/future settings with a symmetric conflict ALWAYS produce the problem that detection technologies pretty much force you to be subtle because otherwise, your elaborate headquarters structure (case in point being Aleksandr's HQ in Berlin) or your large-scale invasion force (case in point being the Russian landing force headed for Britain) would be instantly wiped out by a massed volley of cruise missiles or - as it is possible in this universe - even giant, insta-hitting, unstoppable energy weapons. I admit that this is quite plothole inducing, but it is the one unfillable plothole you'll have to accept if you want an epic-sized narratie with more 'classical' battle set-pieces reminiscent of Kursk or Normandy because those are more stylistically interesting than guys sitting in boring, deeply sheltered underground bunkers and exchanging missile/laser fire from half the world away or space.

As it stands, the official technical explanation for the Blackout Node is that it is some sort of really advanced electronic warfare device capable of disrupting all sorts of signals and communications at will. It is canon that the Russians used it to cover up the buildup of their initial invasion. It is not flat-out stated but likely that the Russians also use it to protect key strategic facilities such as Aleksandr's HQ and large-scale troop movements. Finally, it is not flat-out stated but possible/conceivable that they also use it to protect their most vital satellites. Note that the last thing is something I said as part of a speculation; i.e. a casual story discussion about how things might be. The only stuff that is always guaranteed to be canon is the stuff you see in actual updates or if I explicitely declare it as such.
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Xofolez
post 22 May 2013, 23:30
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ok so I do believe I have a solid theory to the blackout node technology on how it operates and why its plausible. Rf is not a technologically impaired nation and have an actual strong technological background and cyber background if you were to relate to both soviet-history and present day development as a nation. So here is how it works in my theory. Its broken down into three separate parts; the manipulative device hooked up to the parent signal receiver/generator [this explains why blackout nodes are hidden and destroyable], the RF's cyber army [RCA?] that infect systems subtly though hacking and viruses and other methods as well, and finally local signal disruption of non-RF devices [so chinese, american, GLA, and euro radio signal disrution] which explains the use of a parent signal device and the radius its centered on.

The way I imagine the first part being possible is in 2 possible ways. The first is that if it were used in an enemy's base an extremely talented covert operative[s] sneaks into a base undetected and deploys a device [ like a cell phone or other more sophisticated device that is hard to pick out] on or near a signal receiver/generating device [like a signal tower, satellite dish, or computer] and then sneaks out completely undetected. If it was used on a RF base, It would be the same thing just without the use of covert operatives sneaking around their own base[s]. The second method is that a system within the local network or whatever has been hacked/manipulated and is generating static to [non-RF] short range radios as well as allowing the hackers to manipulate coordinates and satellite imaging of surrounding area now that they have coordinates to look up in a global map database that displays the area they are targeting as being not occupied.

The RF have their own set of computer geniuses in siberia, moscow, st.petersburg, or wherever, that are charged with developing technology that is capable of camouflaging military formations from satellites imagining. But that that doesn't make sense for the GLA is what your all thinking, right? well your wrong, the GLA communications are made up of short line radio, piggybacked signal towers, and even their own homemade systems. Now how does a SCUD launch get from point A to point B without treating it like artillery [which SCUD launch sites clearly are not rocket artillery strikes, but guided rockets instead]? Easy, they have their own system, and that system is probably hooked up to a network to which the entire bases uses and that network is eventually hooked up to the internet and the internet is probably how they get the global positioning for the coordinates and watch porn illegally [lol]. Now hold that thought there for a moment. How would the RF camouflage themselves when the sat is looking at their position? It is possible that the imaging is being manipulated by a series of false [but plausible] images were installed into the satellite's memory via virus or hacker. So lets say China is trying to find the current where abouts of Alek in Berlin, but the Chinese Satellite displays that Berlin looks like it hasn't been touched just yet, but world news networks and youtube videos display the total opposite instead.

Ok, so what about close range situations is what your other thoughts are, right? Well consider this idea, that perhaps the signal towers that bounce radio waves off of all around the world were actually generating static that made communications impossible centered on that tower's area. Another theory leads back to the idea that perhaps RF's opponents are currently being attacked by the RF's own hackers, constantly manipulating the codes and coordinates.

So basically I am pointing out that the Chinese are not the only ones promoting cyber-warfare



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__CrUsHeR
post 23 May 2013, 0:32
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About the technology in question Blackout Node will never know how it in fact works, I imagine it follows the same rule of conception Tesla and Chrono - use your imagination to conceive the functioning - however we understand some technologies such as satellites and radio waves, and we can say that something could hardly escape from the lenses and the sonar of a country like USA.

One important thing to keep in mind is that satellites are not something common and really easy to acquire, in fact they themselves are, however the means to put them into orbits are restricted and monitored internationally to prevent things from getting out of control, for example, the GPS technology is American and they are masters of this technology literally, not exist private satellites that provide global location, so NASA decides when to push the OFF, and they pressed the OFF in some parts of Middle East in the war against Iraq for this technology to incapacitate the enemy. Devices that use the system "borrowed" from the USA need to pay for it and are subject to an intervention. For this reason, Russia undertook to build that GLONASS is the Russian version of GPS and is under development, however Russia does not have the resources that the United States has to develop the system but it is vital for the existence of Russia as a military power. The European Union has to the Eureka that works similarly.

About the GLA in RL they never could launch intercon missiles for this reason, because it would simply be disconnected from the system by a network monitored 24 hours, and also not be able to use anything guided by the GLONASS system or Eureka by the same reason.

These concepts are important to understand a few things about electronic warfare, I believe that the GLA ZH succeeded in launching a missile intercontinental because won Baikonur and controlled the GLONASS that is located there.

About secret agents or hackers intercept the signal directly from a satellite and change the results is something almost impossible, they need to receive the signal or intercepts it and send the date for an inter-intra net, change it in real time and sends it to the power source while the original signal was locked.


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Xofolez
post 23 May 2013, 1:15
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QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 23 May 2013, 0:32) *
About the technology in question Blackout Node will never know how it in fact works, I imagine it follows the same rule of conception Tesla and Chrono - use your imagination to conceive the functioning - however we understand some technologies such as satellites and radio waves, and we can say that something could hardly escape from the lenses and the sonar of a country like USA.

One important thing to keep in mind is that satellites are not something common and really easy to acquire, in fact they themselves are, however the means to put them into orbits are restricted and monitored internationally to prevent things from getting out of control, for example, the GPS technology is American and they are masters of this technology literally, not exist private satellites that provide global location, so NASA decides when to push the OFF, and they pressed the OFF in some parts of Middle East in the war against Iraq for this technology to incapacitate the enemy. Devices that use the system "borrowed" from the USA need to pay for it and are subject to an intervention. For this reason, Russia undertook to build that GLONASS is the Russian version of GPS and is under development, however Russia does not have the resources that the United States has to develop the system but it is vital for the existence of Russia as a military power. The European Union has to the Eureka that works similarly.

About the GLA in RL they never could launch intercon missiles for this reason, because it would simply be disconnected from the system by a network monitored 24 hours, and also not be able to use anything guided by the GLONASS system or Eureka by the same reason.

These concepts are important to understand a few things about electronic warfare, I believe that the GLA ZH succeeded in launching a missile intercontinental because won Baikonur and controlled the GLONASS that is located there.

About secret agents or hackers intercept the signal directly from a satellite and change the results is something almost impossible, they need to receive the signal or intercepts it and send the date for an inter-intra net, change it in real time and sends it to the power source while the original signal was locked.


....and for reasons like that, we turn around and say as the gamers we all are "Its just a game and doesnt need to make sense"


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Zeke
post 23 May 2013, 4:48
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QUOTE (Generalcamo @ 23 May 2013, 3:22) *
Alright, so we all know about the Blackout Node. It's used to cover up bases, and protect them from super-weapons

But apparently, things are going way too far. Now we are attaching it to space installations, units, and a large Russian uprising. The fridge logic here is huge.

In-Game, the Blackout node turns everything Black around it, making it unable to be attacked by super-weapons. Now then, here is where things get strange. This shows up as pure black in an obvious circle. MARS earlier suggested that Russian satellites are equipped with these. Do you not think NASA would see this huge hole in their radar? This might work for Guided Missiles, as maybe the Blackout node messes with the target recognition when it nears these things. But a Particle Cannon? These are adjusted on the ground: No on-board computer required, unless you want to make the entire system useless to the United States (Which obviously, does not happen!!).

Seriously, stop using Blackout Nodes for everything under the sun!


The blackout node is easily detected on Earth, as the black circle contrasts heavily on Earth's non black terrain.

However space is black, and I don't I have to explain looking for a black circle in black space.

Even if the nodes were easily detectable, since it jams "any kind of signal", you can't be sure it's an actual satellite without actually sending someone to check. For all we know, you could have just wasted millions of dollars on a floating blackout node in space.

Let's take this to a more evil level, what if it wasn't a Russian satellite, what if the Russians somehow managed to deploy a BON on say a European satellite. What if the blackout node was actually hiding another particle mirror, which would redirect the beam to say an American city?

Stealth is not the only form of deception. There is also misdirection. As such hiding things is not the only thing nodes can potentially do.


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__CrUsHeR
post 23 May 2013, 5:08
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QUOTE (Xofolez @ 22 May 2013, 21:15) *
....and for reasons like that, we turn around and say as the gamers we all are "Its just a game and doesnt need to make sense"


Many times I am forced to accept this sad reality and say it to myself, I felt more comfortable with it in Red Alert that followed in a parallel universe changed by time travel or TS that takes place in a distant future with things from another world.

The ZH not match in terms of "sustainable fictional reality" with some things, technologies of Red Alert as the Gap Generator eg simply not sustainable for the reality of modern war proposed by the original game, but I understand that creating interesting things with a background complex is very difficult, especially when you are looking to create a plot that draws the attention of the player.

The narrations of the MARS are very good and he makes good use of other factors to address the lack of logic or technical information about certain technologies, but you know, sometimes things do not work very well, you remember that there is a world like their coexisting with all this, but certainly the team does the best he can.


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__CrUsHeR
post 23 May 2013, 5:29
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QUOTE (Zeke @ 23 May 2013, 0:48) *
The blackout node is easily detected on Earth, as the black circle contrasts heavily on Earth's non black terrain.

However space is black, and I don't I have to explain looking for a black circle in black space.

Even if the nodes were easily detectable, since it jams "any kind of signal", you can't be sure it's an actual satellite without actually sending someone to check. For all we know, you could have just wasted millions of dollars on a floating blackout node in space.


NASA astronomers always know when a rocket was released somewhere in the world because anomalies arise of the contact with the atmosphere at sub-sonic velocity and high mass becoming evident to any viewer, it is not necessary to view it digitally, so they know exactly all about the satellites were placed in orbit, from this moment on precise calculations based on the physical properties are used to discover the location of a satellite, they are unaware just in rare cases the purpose of the satellite but its existence and Location is virtually impossible to be denied.


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MARS
post 23 May 2013, 5:50
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Another thing I'd like to point out is that both the Blackout Node and the GLA GPS Scramblers represent -the- largest gap between story and gameplay in the entire mod. Obviously, the Blackout Node does not generate a thick cloud of black fog. Realistically, it'd either create a large mess of undiscernable objects on radar screen similar to a chaff cloud or it somehow manages to mask objects in the affected area so they don't appear on radar. Of course this still leaves the issue of optical reconnaissance but I do actually like Xofolez' explanation that the Blackout Node is merely one physically visible component of a multilayered electronic warfare operation. The Russians are quite capable of EW and it adds some technological ingenuity to what would otherwise appear like a very brute, unintelligent approach. Long story short: The actual Nodes themselves are capable of disrupting various signals but the exact workings of the Blackout Node will most likely never be explained in detail as it only creates more questions. It's basically our version of MW2's "Russia's invasion remained undetected because they hacked the ACS system" handwave; odd, but a thing we have to take for granted in order for grand-scale battles and imposing bases to work in-universe. Xofolez' theory seems like a good guess to me though. Why did I mention the GPS Scrambler at the start of this post? Because they're actually MORE ridiculous than the Blackout. So the Blackout screws up radar, kills communications and acts as one part of an entire EW operation which also produces faulty satellite imagery but a single guy -next- to the base can look right through the facade - GPS Scramblers literally conceal structures and even moving vehicles to the naked eye in-game which cannot be explained, ever. You can imagine why we will never talk about THAT particular can of worms in detail.
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__CrUsHeR
post 23 May 2013, 6:01
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QUOTE (MARS @ 23 May 2013, 1:50) *
Why did I mention the GPS Scrambler at the start of this post? Because they're actually MORE ridiculous than the Blackout. So the Blackout screws up radar, kills communications and acts as one part of an entire EW operation which also produces faulty satellite imagery but a single guy -next- to the base can look right through the facade - GPS Scramblers literally conceal structures and even moving vehicles to the naked eye in-game! You can imagine why we will never EVER talk about THAT particular can of worms in detail.


My most logical explanation for this is that after you install a unit with GPS it can abandon any conventional attack formation because the "general" know its location and so keeps contacted, even losing the visual, allowing incredibly stealthy attacks.

This post has been edited by __CrUsHeR: 23 May 2013, 6:20


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(USA)Bruce
post 23 May 2013, 6:52
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Is the point of this topic to;

Spot a mistake that Mars has made and mock him for it, cause he didnt think of EVERYTHING.
Show how unrealistic a game is with european satalites providing infinate power.
Change the blackout node ingame completely
Or to ask an edit to a post that was well written months ago.

I dont see any of the three resonable.....So why isnt this thread locked yet
Edit;
Gprs scramber explanation;
After AK-47 For everyone.....The gla had special labs to breed Camelons...
cameleons for everyone!
Put it on your suit! Your child! Your home! Put it everywhere!


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Serialkillerwhal...
post 23 May 2013, 10:23
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I'd say the nod puts up a very unrealistic "Fake" of an area, which just looks plain garbled and crap data when placed on land, but in space, there's no difficulty replicating a blank pile of nothing.

Plus, satelites are far smaller than Russian military bases.

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__CrUsHeR
post 23 May 2013, 13:15
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 23 May 2013, 2:52) *
Is the point of this topic to;

Spot a mistake that Mars has made and mock him for it, cause he didnt think of EVERYTHING.
Show how unrealistic a game is with european satalites providing infinate power.
Change the blackout node ingame completely
Or to ask an edit to a post that was well written months ago.

I dont see any of the three resonable.....So why isnt this thread locked yet
Edit;
Gprs scramber explanation;
After AK-47 For everyone.....The gla had special labs to breed Camelons...
cameleons for everyone!
Put it on your suit! Your child! Your home! Put it everywhere!



Calm friend, so we asked about the operation of a technology that not had a consistent logic for operation, but which has now been adequately explained.

And I do not think unrealistic the operation of the ECA satellites, actually various nations studying the creation of satellites capable of direct sunlight to decades and in the future will be something viable.

I do not understand why changing the Blackout Node in the game...what should be explained - and it was explained - is a functioning possible for this technology, since that description in the official lore was vague.

MARS not need to think at all and I'm sure he was not bothered by it because he knows that when creating a story so big and complex as the ROTR at some point these questions arise, the goal is not to find flaws in the story but rather to understand things from the perspective of its creator.

OK?

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Talonek
post 23 May 2013, 19:37
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QUOTE (MARS @ 22 May 2013, 23:50) *
Another thing I'd like to point out is that both the Blackout Node and the GLA GPS Scramblers represent -the- largest gap between story and gameplay in the entire mod. Obviously, the Blackout Node does not generate a thick cloud of black fog. Realistically, it'd either create a large mess of undiscernable objects on radar screen similar to a chaff cloud or it somehow manages to mask objects in the affected area so they don't appear on radar. Of course this still leaves the issue of optical reconnaissance but I do actually like Xofolez' explanation that the Blackout Node is merely one physically visible component of a multilayered electronic warfare operation. The Russians are quite capable of EW and it adds some technological ingenuity to what would otherwise appear like a very brute, unintelligent approach. Long story short: The actual Nodes themselves are capable of disrupting various signals but the exact workings of the Blackout Node will most likely never be explained in detail as it only creates more questions. It's basically our version of MW2's "Russia's invasion remained undetected because they hacked the ACS system" handwave; odd, but a thing we have to take for granted in order for grand-scale battles and imposing bases to work in-universe. Xofolez' theory seems like a good guess to me though. Why did I mention the GPS Scrambler at the start of this post? Because they're actually MORE ridiculous than the Blackout. So the Blackout screws up radar, kills communications and acts as one part of an entire EW operation which also produces faulty satellite imagery but a single guy -next- to the base can look right through the facade - GPS Scramblers literally conceal structures and even moving vehicles to the naked eye in-game which cannot be explained, ever. You can imagine why we will never talk about THAT particular can of worms in detail.


Maybe it emits a large amount of Infared Light, visible on cameras (sattelites), but not to human eyes.
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obssesednuker
post 23 May 2013, 23:33
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QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 23 May 2013, 0:32) *
About the GLA in RL they never could launch intercon missiles for this reason, because it would simply be disconnected from the system by a network monitored 24 hours, and also not be able to use anything guided by the GLONASS system or Eureka by the same reason.

These concepts are important to understand a few things about electronic warfare, I believe that the GLA ZH succeeded in launching a missile intercontinental because won Baikonur and controlled the GLONASS that is located there.


Or they just solely relied on the rockets inertial guidance system? ICBMs don't need satellites for navigation, their just much more accurate with them. But inertial navigation has been the primary means of guidance for every theater/strategic unmanned guided missile system since the V1.

This post has been edited by obssesednuker: 23 May 2013, 23:34
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__CrUsHeR
post 23 May 2013, 23:51
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QUOTE (obssesednuker @ 23 May 2013, 19:33) *
Or they just solely relied on the rockets inertial guidance system? ICBMs don't need satellites for navigation, their just much more accurate with them. But inertial navigation has been the primary means of guidance for every theater/strategic unmanned guided missile system since the V1.


In fact it is not necessary that one IBCM has a system of navigation by satellite, however no nation has developed an ICBM this century without a navigation system because they use a missile without the ability to control, including electronic devices as countermeasures, is the same thing to shoot in the dark, you spend billions on a project and lose years of research with something that you do not have any certainty of its efficiency.

BTW: the ballistic missile class V1, V2 and Scud are not ICBMs, are strategic weapons of range between 200-500 KMs approximately.


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Genmotty
post 24 May 2013, 17:21
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I don't recall the exact cannon fluff for the Blackout Node technology, yet it, and the GPS Scrambler technology isn't that far fetched.


The Blackout Node in principle could be a device that conducts active disruption of radio and optical instrument. That is, it's a bunch of high energy masers and lasers, connected up to the Russian Intelligence network.

Thus every time a plane is detected flying over the territory it's optical cameras are burnt out, and similarly for space satellites. Radar and none optical are jammed via echoing back active radar, and passive radar is jammed via faking other signals via interference principles (or mobile arrays, hence explain the deployable nature, continually changing the 'nodes' the system uses to prevent eventual triangulations.

This would explain why intelligence cannot be maintained over an area (it continually appears 'black' can't even get the terrain maps). Likewise, the Blackout system may be able to disrupt missiles and aircraft systems making it a 'pointless endeavour' to try and launch strikes within its area of effect. As for 'dumb strikes' or those that rely on mechanical instrumentation, well look at how accurate the V1s and V2s were during WWII...


The limitations of such a system might be in the fact that the nodes have to be constantly on the move/built to prevent them becoming triangulated. Likewise, the power needs for such an active ECM system might make it difficult to maintain everywhere.



The GPS Scrambler, well I guess it depends on if you consider; "Does it do what it says on the tin, or is it just the GLA's name for it?" Personally I've always had the notion of some top GLA hacker whos infiltrated the world intelligence networks and 'erases' the intelligence information/intelligence maps after they have been returned to USA, Russia, China or ECA HQ.

Thus would explain why it acts just like normal camouflage*, as well as the building, that windmill is powering one of the hackers servers...and he's also provided a nice EMP bomb just in case they try and steal his protocols from the servers.

Add the word "The GPS Scrambler" in all the .csv files and you can have that one for free, since it gives a level of ambiguity.



However it's all a game so....Really I don't care all that much...

*i.e. reports of attacks and unit positions could be erased too.
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obssesednuker
post 24 May 2013, 22:14
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QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 23 May 2013, 23:51) *
In fact it is not necessary that one IBCM has a system of navigation by satellite, however no nation has developed an ICBM this century without a navigation system because they use a missile without the ability to control,


You are right that no nation has developed an ICBM without a navigation system, however satellite navigation has been and remains a means of assisting ICBM guidance (as opposed to being the primary means of ICBM guidance like intertial guidance is) for three reasons.

First, you can destroy a satellite network without destroying the missile. The same can not be said for inertial guidance since those are part of either the missile itself. Secondly, it is possibe to jam a wireless up link to a satellite but it is not possible to jam (without magic) on-board flight computers, gyroscopes, and/or accelerometers since those are hard-wired into the missile itself. Thirdly, satellite guidance is most useful against relatively small, moving targets (like a tank) while ICBMs are normally fired at comparatively large, fixed targets (like an industrial complex, military base, or commercial district).

QUOTE
BTW: the ballistic missile class V1, V2 and Scud are not ICBMs, are strategic weapons of range between 200-500 KMs approximately.


When I said "inertial navigation has been the primary means of guidance for every theater/strategic unmanned guided missile system" I meant EVERY theater/strategic unmanned guided missile system which, naturally, includes every ICBM (which are strategic missile systems) ever made. That means missiles as old as the R-7 Semyorka and SM-65 Atlas (both first deployment in 1959) and as new as the RSM-56 Bulava (first deployment January 2013). Not coincidentally, a variant of the R-7 called the Soyuz-FG continues to be manufactured and used as a sattelite launch vehicle... and were the very model for the missiles the GLA captured and launched at Baikonur in both Generals and ZH.

Oh, and the V1 is technically a cruise missile.

This post has been edited by obssesednuker: 24 May 2013, 22:23
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__CrUsHeR
post 24 May 2013, 23:44
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QUOTE (obssesednuker @ 24 May 2013, 18:14) *
You are right that no nation has developed an ICBM without a navigation system, however satellite navigation has been and remains a means of assisting ICBM guidance (as opposed to being the primary means of ICBM guidance like intertial guidance is) for three reasons.

First, you can destroy a satellite network without destroying the missile. The same can not be said for inertial guidance since those are part of either the missile itself. Secondly, it is possibe to jam a wireless up link to a satellite but it is not possible to jam (without magic) on-board flight computers, gyroscopes, and/or accelerometers since those are hard-wired into the missile itself. Thirdly, satellite guidance is most useful against relatively small, moving targets (like a tank) while ICBMs are normally fired at comparatively large, fixed targets (like an industrial complex, military base, or commercial district).


Indeed it is likely that there is 'inertial navigation' on ICBMs however they should have command and control via satellite as an alternative guiding since it sometimes does not exist skillful time to program the system and a quick response is necessary.

QUOTE (obssesednuker @ 24 May 2013, 18:14) *
When I said "inertial navigation has been the primary means of guidance for every theater/strategic unmanned guided missile system" I meant EVERY theater/strategic unmanned guided missile system which, naturally, includes every ICBM (which are strategic missile systems) ever made. That means missiles as old as the R-7 Semyorka and SM-65 Atlas (both first deployment in 1959) and as new as the RSM-56 Bulava (first deployment January 2013). Not coincidentally, a variant of the R-7 called the Soyuz-FG continues to be manufactured and used as a sattelite launch vehicle... and were the very model for the missiles the GLA captured and launched at Baikonur in both Generals and ZH.

Oh, and the V1 is technically a cruise missile.


Ok, is correct to say that the V1 for example is a cruise missile.


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You already imagined how would be SAP in the ROTR's universe? Check out this fan-fiction: South American Pact Introduction
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obssesednuker
post 31 May 2013, 4:04
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QUOTE (__CrUsHeR @ 24 May 2013, 23:44) *
Indeed it is likely that there is 'inertial navigation' on ICBMs however they should have command and control via satellite as an alternative guiding since it sometimes does not exist skillful time to program the system and a quick response is necessary.


ICBMs are "fire-and-forget" weapons. Once fired all the guidance is automatic, there is no additional command and control. The only part the humans have in the guidance system is targetting the missile, which is done by on-site personnel.

Plus, the GLA were clearly not using standard ICBMs, but modified captured Soyuz launch vehicles into improvised ICBMs. For a Non-Governmental Organization, that would take a considerable amount of time and resources, of course since the Zero Hour campaign makes it clear that the GLA held onto the Baikonur center for a considerable amount of time (enough to modify and launch two rockets and seemingly finish the modifications on a third)...
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