IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

7 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > »   
Reply to this topicStart new topic
2.0 Generals Discussion, Since the full version of 1.87 is going to be coming soon.
Shiro
post 17 Dec 2016, 21:02
Post #26


Gamer Girl
Group Icon

Group: Legend
Posts: 3778
Joined: 19 June 2009
From: Disboard
Member No.: 182
Friendly Freelancer



QUOTE (Scud @ 17 Dec 2016, 20:51) *
I hope the Scud Launcher is like a Claymore (great range) but with long reload time and a really bad accuracy. Like the Scud-C: "Its range was brought up to 500–600 km, but at the cost of a greatly reduced accuracy and warhead size" or the Scud-B, 'cause it was "the most prolific of the series, with a production run estimated at 7,000. It served in 32 countries and four countries besides the Soviet Union manufactured copied versions" wich explains how the GLA get their hands on it, also "the Scud-B could carry nuclear, chemical, conventional HE warheads".

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scud

It will probably be more like its Russian-used cousin, the Topol.


--------------------
Joy~
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gameman112358
post 18 Dec 2016, 9:11
Post #27



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 13 August 2015
Member No.: 11944



QUOTE (EuroStep @ 16 Dec 2016, 9:09) *
That's understandable; with 15 different armies to choose from, that's pretty much impossible. Also, there's a luck factor (going random) that makes it even more interesting.


Wouldn't surprise me if there's a lot of problems trying to balance matches between generals, due to the asymmetrical nature of the game's factions and upcoming subfactions. Each subfaction will have its own unique theme, which isn't going to be an easy thing to balance. One subfaction might have an easier time dealing with a certain faction tactic, while another subfaction will struggle to deal with the said tactic. Trying to keep generals unique while making sure matchups aren't horrifically one sided/broken is going to be REALLY difficult. Dev team has a lot of work ahead of them when 1.87 comes out and 2.0 development starts. But I have faith that the dev team and the testers will make all of the generals a blast to use. smile.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Purple
post 18 Dec 2016, 11:24
Post #28



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 75
Joined: 5 December 2016
Member No.: 13498



Speaking of unique themes, one concern I have is that they are going to focus the generals a tad too much and thus make them inflexible. Like there is already talk of severely limiting the GP choices and that alone could make them rather predictable. So like, how much variety are the generals going to have when it comes to those?


--------------------
Things I like:
- Tank blobs.
- Infantry blobs.
- BMP.

Things I dislike:
- Aggressive amounts of micromanagement.
- Superweapon whack-a-mole.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X1Destroy
post 18 Dec 2016, 12:49
Post #29


Guardsman
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2032
Joined: 22 October 2012
From: Terra
Member No.: 9379
Armageddon is here..............



Guys, it's not like all of you haven't played games with like 10 factions before (Soulstorm, Mental Omega, ect...). Ofcourse X OP vs Y and Y UP vs Z problems exists and balance get changed from time to time but in the end post-development wise there would still be imperfection anyway. If you're looking for SC competitive balance then you might as well just go play mirror matches.

At the very least it's not outright "LOL, you're airforce so no you can't build tanks and minigunners rape you and that's it." kind of balance like in old ZH. Now that is real stupidity.

I believe that the devs will keep making things fresh and even more interesting mechanics will be introduced, as they have proven before. We may not play as ours favourite faction and win all the time but the huge diversity would keep us from not trying it again and again.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 18 Dec 2016, 12:57


--------------------
We Die Standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gameman112358
post 19 Dec 2016, 0:06
Post #30



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 13 August 2015
Member No.: 11944



QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 18 Dec 2016, 3:49) *
Guys, it's not like all of you haven't played games with like 10 factions before (Soulstorm, Mental Omega, ect...). Ofcourse X OP vs Y and Y UP vs Z problems exists and balance get changed from time to time but in the end post-development wise there would still be imperfection anyway. If you're looking for SC competitive balance then you might as well just go play mirror matches.

At the very least it's not outright "LOL, you're airforce so no you can't build tanks and minigunners rape you and that's it." kind of balance like in old ZH. Now that is real stupidity.

I believe that the devs will keep making things fresh and even more interesting mechanics will be introduced, as they have proven before. We may not play as ours favourite faction and win all the time but the huge diversity would keep us from not trying it again and again.


I've actually played Mental Omega before, and I know that its pretty much near impossible to get perfect balance in that game, simply because some factions do better than others in certain circumstances. If I wanted SC competitive balance in a game, I would go play SC. tongue.gif As long as none of the subfactions are ridiculously one sided (Like you mentioned with the ZH Air Force General example), then I don't mind imperfections balance wise simply because unique, fun play styles are more fun than every general being balanced to the point they're bland and boring like factions are in SC.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 19 Dec 2016, 2:12
Post #31


Certified Shitposter
Group Icon

Group: Tester
Posts: 2374
Joined: 30 December 2013
From: Straya'
Member No.: 10248
pls join my games im lonely =c



If you think the races in starcraft are boring tone obviously never looked that deep into the games mechanics.


--------------------

Many thanks to IvanMRM for my avatar and Star for drawing my epic signature. You guys rock!
Also, check out our ROTR - Fan group on Facebook.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X1Destroy
post 19 Dec 2016, 5:05
Post #32


Guardsman
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2032
Joined: 22 October 2012
From: Terra
Member No.: 9379
Armageddon is here..............



SC's approach is about "less is more". Stuffs have lots of interesting gimicks since the old times but that was it. It never get pass the core design once, as it considered itself perfect. Warcraft is more interesting yet it end in its own success and never see another sequel again.
C&C games at least actually try to change, for better or worse is a different matter altogether.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 19 Dec 2016, 5:08


--------------------
We Die Standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
MARS
post 19 Dec 2016, 6:33
Post #33



Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 5868
Joined: 2 June 2009
Member No.: 10



The problem with ZH subfaction balance was that for each thing a faction had as a unique element, more of the standard things were taken away: Tank General had superior Battlemasters and Emperors, but no artillery as well as costlier aircraft and infantry. Infantry General had better infantry and OP Minigunners, but no tanks. Not a single US general had access to Paladin tanks and they all had some combination of lacking/more expensive Crusaders and Tomahawks. The reason why the Nuclear General was so popular was because he was pretty much the only one who gained all sorts of cool nuclear-themed weapons but didn't lose anything fundamental in return.

In ROTR, the approach is different: Air-oriented generals like Griffon and Orlov will have tanks - on the same vanilla level of the US and Russia respectively. Ground-assault generals like Bradley, Zhukov and all the Chinese ones will have access to aircraft and helicopters - on the same vanilla level of the US, Russia and China respectively. Simply put, the ROTR approach to subfactions is that each general retains all the necessary tools of a well-rounded faction - infantry, tanks, artillery, air units - and their unique specialisations merely add to or modify these. This is also the reason why, aside from the technical implementation, there is simply no need for unspecialised vanilla factions: Every general contains all the tools that a vanilla faction would have and their unique focus only adds to that, without anything 'off-doctrine' being taken away or artificially weakened.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gameman112358
post 19 Dec 2016, 9:20
Post #34



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 13 August 2015
Member No.: 11944



Speaking of Griffon, I actually have a question about him: Why is he considered to be the 'Faction Strength Exaggerated' general? Sounds kinda silly to ask, but I'm bringing this up now because I was looking at some of the other threads regarding how the U.S. in its current form really plays out as (A generalist, Jack-of-all-trades, master of none faction), and I remember another thread saying that while the other 4 factions' generals are making the faction have more tools at their disposal (Basically giving the other factions more tactics instead of just using the same tactic; ECA defense spam for example), the U.S. generals are going the opposite direction, giving the faction more specializations instead. Is it because Griffon is basically vanilla U.S. with extra powerful aircraft on top?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shalom
post 19 Dec 2016, 10:07
Post #35



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 96
Joined: 14 July 2013
Member No.: 10034



QUOTE (MARS @ 19 Dec 2016, 7:33) *
The problem with ZH subfaction balance was that for each thing a faction had as a unique element, more of the standard things were taken away: Tank General had superior Battlemasters and Emperors, but no artillery as well as costlier aircraft and infantry. Infantry General had better infantry and OP Minigunners, but no tanks. Not a single US general had access to Paladin tanks and they all had some combination of lacking/more expensive Crusaders and Tomahawks. The reason why the Nuclear General was so popular was because he was pretty much the only one who gained all sorts of cool nuclear-themed weapons but didn't lose anything fundamental in return.

In ROTR, the approach is different: Air-oriented generals like Griffon and Orlov will have tanks - on the same vanilla level of the US and Russia respectively. Ground-assault generals like Bradley, Zhukov and all the Chinese ones will have access to aircraft and helicopters - on the same vanilla level of the US, Russia and China respectively. Simply put, the ROTR approach to subfactions is that each general retains all the necessary tools of a well-rounded faction - infantry, tanks, artillery, air units - and their unique specialisations merely add to or modify these. This is also the reason why, aside from the technical implementation, there is simply no need for unspecialised vanilla factions: Every general contains all the tools that a vanilla faction would have and their unique focus only adds to that, without anything 'off-doctrine' being taken away or artificially weakened.



So, from the standpoint of unit rooster, basically all generals are a (ROTR) Vanilla faction with either the Vanilla basic units or better equivalents plus their own unique units minus the unique units of other generals that we have access to in a the pre-2.0 version?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mizo
post 19 Dec 2016, 10:12
Post #36


AI Coding Expert
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 1798
Joined: 9 May 2014
From: Poland
Member No.: 10450



QUOTE
Is it because Griffon is basically vanilla U.S. with extra powerful aircraft on top?


Yep. Playstyle wise it'll retain the ground-air support, albiet being very good at the air part, but the core aspects remain the same. You need micro to make it work.

Bradley on the other hand plays differently from the vanilla USA in that while he's slower than the conventional USA general in responses, he makes up for it by having stronger armor and ground presence that can go on par with Russia while retaining the defualt US airpower ( but becoming less of a nessessity unlike the default US faction).

Thorn is completely different from any conventional playstyle that neither focuses on heavy tanks nor on supreme air power , but something else, hence why he's subversive.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 19 Dec 2016, 10:14


--------------------


Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X1Destroy
post 19 Dec 2016, 10:23
Post #37


Guardsman
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2032
Joined: 22 October 2012
From: Terra
Member No.: 9379
Armageddon is here..............



First thing came to my mind whenever Thorn is mentioned should be MOAR HUMVEES!

Then again, his theme is actually the most expanded of the three. Special Forces could be special vehicles, spec ops infantry and even drone and aircrafts, intel mechanics......

Looks like a very fun guy to use, but since he's gonna need even more micro and plannings ahead it's definitely not gonna be an easy choice.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 19 Dec 2016, 10:26


--------------------
We Die Standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gameman112358
post 19 Dec 2016, 10:59
Post #38



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 13 August 2015
Member No.: 11944



QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 19 Dec 2016, 1:23) *
First thing came to my mind whenever Thorn is mentioned should be MOAR HUMVEES!

Then again, his theme is actually the most expanded of the three. Special Forces could be special vehicles, spec ops infantry and even drone and aircrafts, intel mechanics......

Looks like a very fun guy to use, but since he's gonna need even more micro and plannings ahead it's definitely not gonna be an easy choice.


I imagine the subversive generals are probably going to be much more difficult to utilize and play with, but are going to be far more rewarding if you can play them right. Especially Thorn and Jin, I think, given that both focus around intel gathering, sabotage, and spec ops infantry groups. Orlov is gong to be highly versatile, given his arsenal is subversive + Russia's powerhouse combined, Ibrahiim is going to be a pain in the ass to fight against, given his use of chemical and biological warfare, and Charles' artillery is going to be annoying, since he can bombard you from so far away. To take a quote from the Gorgon: "My diagnosis? SHELL SHOCK!". That's what the player feels like after facing Charles. XD
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X1Destroy
post 19 Dec 2016, 11:09
Post #39


Guardsman
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2032
Joined: 22 October 2012
From: Terra
Member No.: 9379
Armageddon is here..............



Charles having a heavier tank than the Kodiak is proof that his stuffs are no joke. Combined with ECA defense style his enemy would have to take massive casualties if they want to get in close and defeat him. Probably the bloodiest match up would be Chen vs Charles. One focus on never ending reinforcements while the other just stay afar and bombard everything non-stop while building more walls, tanks and snipers to prevent any chance of a breakthrough. Would be a wonderful sight to see however.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 19 Dec 2016, 11:12


--------------------
We Die Standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shiro
post 19 Dec 2016, 11:21
Post #40


Gamer Girl
Group Icon

Group: Legend
Posts: 3778
Joined: 19 June 2009
From: Disboard
Member No.: 182
Friendly Freelancer



QUOTE (Shalom @ 19 Dec 2016, 10:07) *
So, from the standpoint of unit rooster, basically all generals are a (ROTR) Vanilla faction with either the Vanilla basic units or better equivalents plus their own unique units minus the unique units of other generals that we have access to in a the pre-2.0 version?


Exactly. The non-Generals version of ROTR is really a crutch, there are no base factions meant to exist in 2.0 since, as has been said several times, every General has the base assets and then only adds special replacements or unique things on top of that. Nobody loses any core assets. Thorn still has tanks. Bradley still has aircraft. Mau still can horde. Ibrahiim can still disguise a Bomb Truck and shove it up his enemy's... flank. Willem can still tank assault... and so on and on.

So to illustrate it in a generic but clear way:



QUOTE (Gameman112358 @ 19 Dec 2016, 10:59) *
I imagine the subversive generals are probably going to be much more difficult to utilize and play with, but are going to be far more rewarding if you can play them right. Especially Thorn and Jin, I think, given that both focus around intel gathering, sabotage, and spec ops infantry groups. Orlov is gong to be highly versatile, given his arsenal is subversive + Russia's powerhouse combined, Ibrahiim is going to be a pain in the ass to fight against, given his use of chemical and biological warfare, and Charles' artillery is going to be annoying, since he can bombard you from so far away. To take a quote from the Gorgon: "My diagnosis? SHELL SHOCK!". That's what the player feels like after facing Charles. XD


Subversive Generals will require more attention, yes, since they are basicly the "Here's some new, mean tricks" Generals.

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 19 Dec 2016, 11:09) *
Charles having a heavier tank than the Kodiak is proof that his stuffs are no joke.


On par, maybe, but certainly not heavier.


--------------------
Joy~
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
IntoTheRain
post 19 Dec 2016, 18:17
Post #41



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 80
Joined: 4 October 2014
Member No.: 10670



QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 19 Dec 2016, 5:05) *
SC's approach is about "less is more". Stuffs have lots of interesting gimicks since the old times but that was it. It never get pass the core design once, as it considered itself perfect. Warcraft is more interesting yet it end in its own success and never see another sequel again.
C&C games at least actually try to change, for better or worse is a different matter altogether.


What?

First, CnC games don't change, at least not really. They have used the same tech tree, damage model, unit types, and game compositions since 1995. There is movement towards making some unit types more viable, (infantry, aircraft) and adding some special abilities, but for the most part its the same game its always been. If you are decent at one CnC, then chances are you can be decent at any of them. Thats not change.

Second, Starcraft has changed dramatically over the years, far more so than CnC could ever dream. Doing so is necessary because Starcraft's design is so asymmetrical that balancing it is an incredible feat all its own. Saying it never got past 'core design' is incredibly dismissive. NO ONE tries to make 3 asymmetrical races work - its an insane task to find ways to balance it all, and extremely impressive that they have gotten so close.

Warcraft, at least WC3, works because it literally wrote its own genre, (again, breaking new ground) and you will definitely see a sequel at some point. The only question is when since Blizzard non WoW releases seem to come about once a decade.

Third, (and this is a general rant not just directed at you) fuck the word Gimmick. Its such an overused term used to discredit any new idea that someone doesn't understand.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shottkey7thPath
post 20 Dec 2016, 8:16
Post #42



Group Icon

Group: New Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 4 December 2016
Member No.: 13404



Hey, first time post here. signed up to try out the new beta and loving the hell out of it. Been following this mods since i remember before ECA was a thing for it on Moddb.

Anyways, while its interesting to think what the generals will get and their strengthens are, what about their weaknesses/deficiencies in certain fields? and i prefer to classify them as Light (Subversive) Heavy (Powerhouse) and Specialist (Faction X2)

Here are my takes and predictions how the generals will play out. and of course its likely they might be completely wrong.

USA is the primer Micro faction with some of the highest mobility that is only matched or exceeded by the GLA. and their lasers and Countermeasures gives them the ability to ignore damage. weaknesses being not being able to stand up to punishment, mediocre when brute forced and units being investments.

So USA Light, Spec Ops i imagine their strength of course is their mobility but also high quality infantry. Their unique Firebase with its garrison slots synchronizes with their infantry. and pathfinders can slaughter approaching infantry with it. and so can the Delta Force Ops with their machine guns. and his Mule Drones which gives firepower buffs. being Infantry, they can easily be transported by air in large numbers. the Avenger is said to be exclusive to him, so the defense lasers also help with avoiding damage.

Weaknesses though, of course would the weakest in taking damage. but with Blackhawks, Ospreys, Chinooks and Pavelows, using them to relocate your troops like the Delta Forces Mortar barrarges from an enemy response should be your best bet. basically avoid taking damage instead of tanking. also because of how the laser defense lasers work, they would be little use against China's Flaks.

-

USA Heavy; Tank Command. Strengths, it's tanks obviously. but also combines with USA's high mobility. giving USA a rather unique blend of speed and firepower. also the defense lasers of the Paladin and Bradley allows them to ignore a degree of missile damage. Has the Composite armour upgrade.

Weaknesses: While the fastest of the Heavies, they are the 2nd least "tankiest" Heavy. since it seems that the Paladin would be the Heaviest tank USA will get. so it would be foolish to go against say Russia's heavy tank fleets. but since USA has access to powerful gunships, a combined arms tactic should be used. as well as the Microwave tanks to disable high risk enemy units and protect against Terrorists, Hijackers, Angry Mobs.

-

USA Specialist. Air Force. Strengths, Obviously, it's airforce. the stealthy Commache combined with a variety of airforce options, it should not be a stretch to assume he will get abilities for his aircraft to ignore damage. (possibly point defense lasers or a Goliath system like upgrade). the WASP Hive i think is kinda brilliant. a force of those should be good at distracting enemy anti-air like Quads and missile troop from their aircraft. possibly have access to "cannon fodder" aircraft like the Acolyte drones from Shockwave to district heavy Anti-Aircraft?

Weaknesses: expect his ground forces to suffer to some degree. and the Crusader will likely be the heaviest ground unit they can field. the Crusader will still fill a vital role within this subfaction's arsenal but it would lack the Composite Armour. Stuff like Patriots and Grumbles would hit this faction particularly hard though.

-

China of course has the numbers on its side. Cheap, mass producable tanks and infantry. though poor in performance unless under influence of Horde and Propaganda. lacks finesse.

China Light; Secret Police. This one i feel have trouble figuring out but i think its safe to say they would have superior map awareness capabilities. to the point that the fog-of-war is a non issue to this general. that it would be almost impossible to hide from them. also if the Propaganda Airship is anything to go by, their strengths are administrating buffs to friendlies with Propaganda related quirks. also ECM Tank would give them damage ignore capabilities. also may get a red guard replacement. (possibly a PLA Regular/Rifleman?)

Weaknesses: Would be unable to build a big army like Red Army Gen or one with a punch like Special Weapons. if map awareness advantage is true, then this general should have early warnings giving the player ample time to prepare.

-

China Heavy: Special Weapons. Strenghts are heavy hitting. in a way a blend between Russia's punch and China's Numbers. The Disrupter Teams and Nuke Weapons lets you punish the enemy from a distance and have significant firepower by themselves even without horde. Versatile Han Gunships

Weaknesses. Judging by the Minigunners, Nukeneers, Disrupters and Nuke Cannon. Their primary damage dealers require deployment. likely making them particularly vulnerable to fast enemies. and the units themselves look like considerable investments by themselves so hording would not be economical aside from red guards and battlemasters.

-

China Specialist: Red Army. strengths is obvious. being able to make an army so huge the SAGE engine crashes. like to have Horde related upgrades and bonuses. production advantages.

-

Weaknesses. perhaps the most inflexible army of all. its sheer size would be difficult to micromanage and would offer little benefit regardless. units would lack any secondary function since they are to be used in groups. Helix might offer much needed mobility but even then it's slow and better suited for supporting assaults. not sure what degree of customization it will have.


-

Everyones favorite orky mad-max middle eastern crypto-islamist ragtag bunch of misfits and junkyard engineers. having the highest mobility on par if not exceeding the USA. having the advantage of Stealth and black market bounties. could practically be swimming in cash when fully upgraded with bounties and arms merchants. but junk engineering does not hold up to the standards of a fully industrialized country.

GLA Light: Bio Command. Strengths are likely having some of the best AoE weapons. Very good area denial measures and would likely focus on debuffing the enemy with toxins. also something about "thermite" weapons that sounds like damage over time weapons for enemy vehicles. and buffs like Combat Drugs. "chain reaction" chemical weapons. becuase of this, might have some of the best defense capabilities of the GLA

Weaknessees: lacking "punch". BioCom might rely on quickly applying damage over a short period of time then delivering a good knockout punch. tough units might easily work their way through BioComs attacks and ravage your forces. also the indiscriminate nature of toxins would likely make your own weapons a threat to your forces if you are not careful.

-

GLA Heavy: Warlord. Marauder Tanks, Mercenaries, Salvage Armour? a total opposite to Biocom. Rely on doing large amounts of damage in a short period of time. and combined with GLA's high mobility with tunnels.

Weaknesses. likely expensive and cannot take much damage due to ramshackle nature. might be the most micro-intensive of the "Heavy" subfactions to compete with the other Heavies. may have weakest stealth capabilities.

-

GLA Specialist: Terror Cell. maximizing "knockout punch" damage through their suicide units. best stealth and camouflage abilities. also versatility. Angry Mobs and Insurrection.

Weaknesses: their most damaging units are likely single use only. embodies the "Glass Cannon" trope with possibly their Battle Bus being the hardest unit in their arsenal. and even then that requires passengers to be combat capable. Angry Mobs while capable of doing tremendous amounts of damage, are not subtle and can be annihilated with the correct weapon used against them. (Commanche, Dragon Tank, Gepard, Buratino, Toxin Tractor)

-

Russia, Star of show, the top billing. tough Tanks but weak economy. cheap Conscripts to meat shield your armored investments and a terrifying but somewhat limited airforce.

Russia Light: Rapid Deployment: Basically Russian Air Force. having the lions share of Russian Helicopters with the Hellion, Hunchback and Hind, and advanced infantry with the Spetsnaz. VDV Support and possibly a heavy lift transport that can carry a Kodiak or two. and possibly exclusive use of the Goliath system.

Weakness: honestly i have trouble finding the weaknesses for this general aside from the standard cost inefficiency of Russian Units until they get an Industrial Plant. likely his weaknesses are the lack of survivabilty tools for his ground units. possibly lack the ERA upgrade for his tanks?

-

Russia Heavy/Specialist?: Tactical Ballistics: honestly think there is much overlap with Advanced Weapons. but i think the biggest difference is while AdvWeps punches through the enemy, TacBal forms a firing line and shoots the opponent into submission. might be some overlap with ECA. but likely TacBal would reward a more aggressive playstyle compared to a ECA with artillery (which would reward being more conservative). but the Gorgon double gun system and compression engines would give you a range advantage over your opponents. also Topol-M and Don Missiles to soften the enemy before the attack.

Weaknesses. i have trouble finding the weaknesses for this general aside from the standard cost inefficiency of Russian Units until they get an Industrial Plant. honestly not enough to go off of. maybe lacks any air transport capabilities.

-

Russian Specialist/Heavy?: like mentioned before, Overlap with Tactical Ballistics. but i think the differences would be hyper aggressive playstyle. you send your forces into enemy defenses and take them out before they do. Acess to the Shtora systems that allow his units to ignore damage by being untargetable for a few moments. approaching the enemy base with Shtora and doing as much damage as possible before it wears off. Shock Troopers and Tesla Weaponry. Gets the Golem tank.

Weakness. i have trouble finding the weaknesses for this general aside from the standard cost inefficiency of Russian Units until they get an Industrial Plant. however quite possibly have the worst long range options of all Russian subfactions. Maybe lack the Gorgon entirely? also Lack the Sentinel tank (unless you perfer the Golem) but should have the Blackbear.


I guess if AdvWeps and TacBal are to be compared, it would be like a Close Combat Specialists vs Gunlines.
-

I have not played enough ECA to think of how they might possible work though. however I do think the Bloodhound is such a welcome addition i don't think i can ever imagine ECA without them now.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X1Destroy
post 20 Dec 2016, 10:05
Post #43


Guardsman
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2032
Joined: 22 October 2012
From: Terra
Member No.: 9379
Armageddon is here..............



Uh...Tactical Ballistic won't be using coalition gun because he have a replacement for that, which isn't a howitzer at all. That means the other 2 will be using Gorgon as theirs choice for artillery, so no Aleksandr without Gorgon.

If the old plans didn't change then Russia and China will be the only factions that have no way to quickly transport tanks. So no Kodiak carrier for Orlov either.

I agree though, the Russian generals doesn't seems to have much obvious weaknesses aside from the ones inherited from the vanilla factions which is the cost and the slow speed of theirs tanks. Orlov is also the least affected of all, as he retained the helicopters. But we still don't know much about what the other 2 will get.

Advance Weapons is the exaggerated faction, railgun and tesla inflicted pure damage to a single enemy yet lack the capabilities to fight large hordes. Tactical Ballistic on the other hand is the opposite of that. Both of them use super heavy tanks to breakthrough however, so they're still very similar.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 20 Dec 2016, 10:06


--------------------
We Die Standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shiro
post 20 Dec 2016, 11:07
Post #44


Gamer Girl
Group Icon

Group: Legend
Posts: 3778
Joined: 19 June 2009
From: Disboard
Member No.: 182
Friendly Freelancer



On Thorn/Special Forces:
1. Where, exactly, do people get these information? Avengers are NOT exclusive to Thorn. You can easily find out by looking at the thing - does it feature Thorn's insignia? No.

On Jin/Secret Police:
1. Why do you think he'd have trouble building up a big army? Propaganda Airships are basicly made to support big armies with lots of propaganda and inspiring frenzy.

On Mau/Special Weapons:
1. Like I said on the first page, Minigunners are not exclusive to Mau.

On Chen/Red Army:
1. Chen's units will have the same abilities as any other. Tank Hunters can still throw TNT. Red Guards can still fix bayonets. Overlords can obviously customize. Gattling Tanks can still dakka tongue.gif Again, you seem to be yet another person who thinks that any given General in ROTR will loose functions like it's ZH all over again to make up for their new toys. It's not like that.

On Ibrahiim/Bio Command:
1. Mostly correct, but Ibrahiim employs a new class of weaponry based on acids to deal with armour, so that's covered. He also has the Scud Launcher to punch holes into enemy defence lines.

On Sulaymaan/Warlord:
1. Only unique units may be expensive, base units like the Technical will not be artificially more expensive for any General.

On Yusuuf/Terror Cell:
1. Insurrection (if you mean the big mob) is a generic GP. If you mean the 3-level "Ambush", then you're right.

On Orlov/Rapid Deployment:
1. ERA isn't exclusive to anyone.
2. Orlov's unique upgrade is Thermobaric Ordnance, not Goliath.
3. Orlov's weakness is the basic Russian weakness of incredibly expensive units. His Spetznaz, while good, are definitely more expensive and unlike vehicles they cannot be made cheaper. His airforce, while better, is also more expensive on default. In that way, like Russia has ever been, he's most vulnerable in the early game.

On Zhukov/Tactical Ballistics:
1. Zhukov is Powerhouse, as has been established and confirmed earlier. I'm in part to blame for the confusion.
2. Zhukov doesn't use the Gorgon.

On Aleksandr/Advanced Weapons:
1. Since Zhukov is Powerhouse, conversely Aleksandr is Exaggerator.
2. He has the Gorgon, just like Orlov.
3. Personally I prefer the Golem; and yes, he also has the Blackbear of course, since it's an independant super Sentinel which isn't produced so much as "follows the call for help from comrades the world over" tongue.gif
4. Tactics-wise, Aleksandr is the go-all-out General. His incredibly high-damage units forego any kind of subtlety and just shoot, shoot and shoot some more. He also has a kind of super-APC, the details of which are not revealed, but fill it with Shock Troopers and roll it down the hills - enemies too foolish to flee will soon be no more.


--------------------
Joy~
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Shottkey7thPath
post 20 Dec 2016, 11:56
Post #45



Group Icon

Group: New Members
Posts: 2
Joined: 4 December 2016
Member No.: 13404



Thanks for keeping me up to date. most of what i have heard i think are outdated by a couple years last i checked.

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 20 Dec 2016, 11:07) *
On Thorn/Special Forces:
1. Where, exactly, do people get these information? Avengers are NOT exclusive to Thorn. You can easily find out by looking at the thing - does it feature Thorn's insignia? No.

Sweet. i love my laser light shows on wheels

On Jin/Secret Police:
1. Why do you think he'd have trouble building up a big army? Propaganda Airships are basicly made to support big armies with lots of propaganda and inspiring frenzy.

well meant comparatively, to the other two. he is gonna get bigger armies then the other factions i know

On Mau/Special Weapons:
1. Like I said on the first page, Minigunners are not exclusive to Mau.

news to me. and it's good news

On Chen/Red Army:
1. Chen's units will have the same abilities as any other. Tank Hunters can still throw TNT. Red Guards can still fix bayonets. Overlords can obviously customize. Gattling Tanks can still dakka tongue.gif Again, you seem to be yet another person who thinks that any given General in ROTR will loose functions like it's ZH all over again to make up for their new toys. It's not like that.

well meant it in his unique stuff barring the overlords because an overlord without customization? who can think of such thing? im wondering if his helix would still retain customization. are get a new set of customization entirely

On Ibrahiim/Bio Command:
1. Mostly correct, but Ibrahiim employs a new class of weaponry based on acids to deal with armour, so that's covered. He also has the Scud Launcher to punch holes into enemy defence lines.

On Sulaymaan/Warlord:
1. Only unique units may be expensive, base units like the Technical will not be artificially more expensive for any General.

well i dont think that is what i meant. also technicals are fun

On Yusuuf/Terror Cell:
1. Insurrection (if you mean the big mob) is a generic GP. If you mean the 3-level "Ambush", then you're right.

Yeah that's the one

On Orlov/Rapid Deployment:
1. ERA isn't exclusive to anyone.
2. Orlov's unique upgrade is Thermobaric Ordnance, not Goliath.
3. Orlov's weakness is the basic Russian weakness of incredibly expensive units. His Spetznaz, while good, are definitely more expensive and unlike vehicles they cannot be made cheaper. His airforce, while better, is also more expensive on default. In that way, like Russia has ever been, he's most vulnerable in the early game.

Ah cool. i guess earlygame has more economic risks for him. i wonder how he will deal with it

On Zhukov/Tactical Ballistics:
1. Zhukov is Powerhouse, as has been established and confirmed earlier. I'm in part to blame for the confusion.
2. Zhukov doesn't use the Gorgon.


On Aleksandr/Advanced Weapons:
1. Since Zhukov is Powerhouse, conversely Aleksandr is Exaggerator.
2. He has the Gorgon, just like Orlov.
3. Personally I prefer the Golem; and yes, he also has the Blackbear of course, since it's an independant super Sentinel which isn't produced so much as "follows the call for help from comrades the world over" tongue.gif
4. Tactics-wise, Aleksandr is the go-all-out General. His incredibly high-damage units forego any kind of subtlety and just shoot, shoot and shoot some more. He also has a kind of super-APC, the details of which are not revealed, but fill it with Shock Troopers and roll it down the hills - enemies too foolish to flee will soon be no more.

now that makes me think of a cartoon like a Russian version of GI Joe or Battletech Animated but following the exploits and adventures of the Blackbear force adn their giant tank cool.gif


responses are in bold beer1.gif
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Mizo
post 20 Dec 2016, 13:50
Post #46


AI Coding Expert
Group Icon

Group: Dev. Team
Posts: 1798
Joined: 9 May 2014
From: Poland
Member No.: 10450



QUOTE
On Jin/Secret Police:
1. Why do you think he'd have trouble building up a big army? Propaganda Airships are basicly made to support big armies with lots of propaganda and inspiring frenzy.

well meant comparatively, to the other two. he is gonna get bigger armies then the other factions i know


Why do People think Jin can't spam compared to the other 2? Relatively, Jin can spam just as much as Mau, Its Chen who takes spam to a whole different level and only he spams better than the 2. Mau does not in any shape or form have better spammability than Jin.


QUOTE
On Orlov/Rapid Deployment:
1. ERA isn't exclusive to anyone.
2. Orlov's unique upgrade is Thermobaric Ordnance, not Goliath.
3. Orlov's weakness is the basic Russian weakness of incredibly expensive units. His Spetznaz, while good, are definitely more expensive and unlike vehicles they cannot be made cheaper. His airforce, while better, is also more expensive on default. In that way, like Russia has ever been, he's most vulnerable in the early game.

Ah cool. i guess earlygame has more economic risks for him. i wonder how he will deal with it


Relatively , Orlov is going to have the strongest early game compared to the other 2 Russian generals so this weakness is alittle bit covered if not fully depending on the matchup.
In terms of power, Orlov beats 70% of the generals rosters in early game, with very few exceptions notably Thorn and to an extent, Wolfgang. While the Spetsnaz are more powerful, they're expensive meaning as strong as Orlov's early game will be, it's gonna be more punishing if you failed to preform a specific early game strategy or harrassment.


--------------------


Not a Rusty Spoon........The_Hunter uses a goddamn wooden spoon on his AI Scripters....
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GeneralCamo
post 20 Dec 2016, 16:26
Post #47


That person
Group Icon

Group: Project Leader
Posts: 1412
Joined: 20 September 2009
From: Cyberspace
Member No.: 417
C&C ShockWave Co-Leader



I would actually say the faction with disadvantaged spam is Mau. Sure, you can spam Battlemasters all you want, but just like the current version you can't really get away with Nukaneer or Nuke Cannon spam. They are just too expensive and bulky (but POWERFUL) to be used like that. The more conventional equivalents that Chen and Jin have are much more spammable, but not nearly as powerful as a result. Jin does have some more expensive support units, but you generally do not spam support units anyway.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X1Destroy
post 20 Dec 2016, 18:14
Post #48


Guardsman
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2032
Joined: 22 October 2012
From: Terra
Member No.: 9379
Armageddon is here..............



Not a surprise really. If there's something like a nuke cannon that can shoot and scoot while still being cheap then we'll have the biggest cry ever.



--------------------
We Die Standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Gameman112358
post 21 Dec 2016, 9:11
Post #49



Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 38
Joined: 13 August 2015
Member No.: 11944



QUOTE (GeneralCamo @ 20 Dec 2016, 7:26) *
I would actually say the faction with disadvantaged spam is Mau. Sure, you can spam Battlemasters all you want, but just like the current version you can't really get away with Nukaneer or Nuke Cannon spam. They are just too expensive and bulky (but POWERFUL) to be used like that. The more conventional equivalents that Chen and Jin have are much more spammable, but not nearly as powerful as a result. Jin does have some more expensive support units, but you generally do not spam support units anyway.


Wouldn't shock me. Given Mau's speciality, I would be surprised if he could spam super well, considering the known units going to him are slow and expensive (incredibly powerful if used right though; Nuke Cannons are flat out lethal, and Nukeneers are basically extremely mobile artillery, considering they can enter troop crawlers). He essentially trades spamming ability for lots of firepower, and it makes a lot of sense to em that he can't spam AS good as Jin or Chen (though he can still spam, not saying he can't); imagine if you sent a cheaply made army, only to have your own artillery blow it up by sheer accident (China's nuclear and napalm weapons tend to do that a lot; I've lost entire armies because of mishaps like GLA ambush in the middle of my army, and then my Nuke Cannons fire at the ambush, thus blowing up my army altogether. Needless to say, I was pissed. XD).

QUOTE (X1Destroy @ 20 Dec 2016, 9:14) *
Not a surprise really. If there's something like a nuke cannon that can shoot and scoot while still being cheap then we'll have the biggest cry ever.


Oh dear god, I can already imagine it. It'd be something like a Battlemaster that would fire Nuke Cannon shells from its gun instead of regular cannon shells. I can already imagine players crying from having to face such a unit... XD
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X1Destroy
post 21 Dec 2016, 9:50
Post #50


Guardsman
Group Icon

Group: Members
Posts: 2032
Joined: 22 October 2012
From: Terra
Member No.: 9379
Armageddon is here..............



Could been even worse.......like nuclear buggy with AOE.

BTW,

Mau seems to be the Chinese general that actually need precision and babysitting to use. He's the one whose forces are more expensive and have more chance of getting friendly fire than everyone else due to the destructive nature of WMDs. What can be used against the enemy can also be used against you, so think twice before recklessly blowing everything up.

Jin on the other hand, looks like will be the one who love playing safe and secured. As for Chen, like he would even care. MOAR is the only answer.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 21 Dec 2016, 9:54


--------------------
We Die Standing.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

7 Pages V  < 1 2 3 4 > » 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
1 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

 



Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 25 May 2018 - 14:03