Toxin vs Tank, How can I beat him Options

[oyuboy]

hello everyone ..................


Sometimes I play as toxin general

If I face tank general how can i beat him without rush?

P.S Sorry for my bad lang

This post has been edited by oyuboy: 7 Nov 2010, 22:01

[Erik]

You cant.

Tank general is easily the most overpowered general in the whole game and if your erase your sides main advantage - speed you WILL loose.

[Frostyarmy]

You cant.

Tank general is easily the most overpowered general in the whole game and if your erase your sides main advantage - speed you WILL loose.

Quoted for infinite truth

[Skoony]

But Tank doesn't have any artillery, so he'll lose against say, a turtler Laser general.

[oyuboy]

Thnx for rep

But can Armour general destroy tank general

[©onscr¡pt]

Ofcourse it can, you have very nice Howitzers and Tank Destroyers, I assume the last says it all. Mammoth Tanks and other heavy weapons will do the trick

[Destiny]

AFG can beat anyone.

[markp]

Sometimes I play as toxin general

If I face tank general how can i beat him without rush?

Are you talking about network (ie, human vs human, which map, what settings), skirmish (which map, what settings/skill level) or generals challenge (what skill level)?

[oyuboy]

Are you talking about network (ie, human vs human, which map, what settings), skirmish (which map, what settings/skill level) or generals challenge (what skill level)?

I'm talking about skirmish (Ihave amap it called(max team war 8 players 1vs 1, 50k/hard army)

This post has been edited by oyuboy: 12 Nov 2010, 13:29

[Prince Kassad]

On such a map with these settings, it should be quite easy to build a handful of RPG troops and a good defense (stingers in dual formation) before the enemy arrives. Build a Palace at the front and put in some RPG troops, as the Palace is quite durable they should relieve the strain of your stingers, then add some artillery behind it for the large tank blobs. With 50k you should not have any problems with money as you can go straight to black market spam.

[markp]

Pick your location so that you have some choke points (preferably a single choke point on the line directly between you and the computer's base).

Locate the computer on the far side of the map.

I agree with PK, put a priority on getting your palace built just on your side of the choke point, fill it with rocket troops. Position a worker just behind the palace for repair purposes.

Eventually build a couple stinger sites on both sides of the palace.

Use your first general's point to allow the purchase of your artillery/rocket launcher. Place 1 or 2 of these near your palace; use them to take out the chinese microwave/radar tank (sorry, forgot the name) ... this unit can keep your palace troops from firing their weapons.

Use the palace to upgrade your structures.

Build a black market and buy the rocket upgrades (for your rocket troops, for your stinger sites) is also good. Worker, radar upgrades are good. Eventually the other upgrades would be good, too (but after you've got your primary defenses up and running).

Send workers out to remote supply depots early on; this provides you with extra money. Build a few stinger sites at these remote supply depots. In most cases you'll probably lose these sites, but the objective here is to distract the computer from an early rush of your main base, thus giving you some time to build up your main base.

A few anti-air vehicle units will help in shooting down incoming helicopters; position these near the choke point.

Also consider spamming scud storms and black markets ... though I'd vote on getting a couple/few scud storms built early. The objective will be to use your scud storms to take out his higher-tech buildings, power plants (especially if he's got a nuke), and eventually his HQ (seems to disable his use of generals powers).

Obviously having several radar vans (w/ their upgrade) will assist in scoping out the enemy base.

Don't forget to build up defenses at the secondary entrances to your base. At some point you'll need to put together 1 or 2 reserve groups of vehicles that can be sent to address an enemy break through at a secondary entrance.

By placing workers near your stinger sites you can provide repair capabilities; while this may eventually be futile for some sites, every little bit helps if it allows you to delay his offenses.

Consider using Jarmen Kell to scout the areas outside of your base to provide you with an early warning of where the computer's forces are located. Another option is to have Jarmen Kell scout the enemy base, with the objective being to find a bulldozer outside of the main base; snipe the dozer, take control of it with an ambush unit, and drive it back to your base to build a power plant (so that you can build units faster); obviously you'll need to protect the bulldozer from computer attacks.

Defeating the tank general is doable, but you'll need to be very good at micro-managing your resources. Once you've gotten used to defeating the tank general you can increase the complexity by ... eliminating maps with choke points, branching out from a turtle defense to a more offense-minded strategy, not building (multiple super weapons), positioning the tank general closer to you, going up against multiple tank generals (though this will probably be suicide, especially if you let them team up against you), etc, etc, etc.

NOTE: When playing .951 I find that sometimes the computer will just build a few structures and then do nothing ... leaving me to spend oodles of time to build up a huge base for an attack that never comes. Soooo, to keep from wasting my time building for an enemy that never attacks, I typically perform an ESC+'restart game' at the beginning of a skirmish ... this seems to kick the computer opponent into normal play mode. ymmv.

NOTE: While 50K is a good bit of money to start with, and additional supply depots and black markets will supply even more funds, consider using units to scavenge crates (from destroyed chinese vehicles). While vehicle upgrades are always good, it doesn't hurt to scoop up the extra money that comes with each crate. Obviously this requires a good bit more micro-managing.

[oyuboy]

using jarmen kell to snip the dozer is perfect idea & the nerve gas bomb will help to take dozers

& IDONT CARE ABOUT DEFENSE I m using the palace & stingers idea but the problem is tanks should I produce more scorpion or marauder tanks? or rocket buggy? cuz thrax tanks cant destroy kwai's tanks

should toxin tractor will do the trick?

also I've uploaded the map

http://www.mediafire.com/?6sz0ddvq5ysddd3

need some strategies

[markp]

using jarmen kell to snip the dozer is perfect idea & the nerve gas bomb will help to take dozers

& IDONT CARE ABOUT DEFENSE I m using the palace & stingers idea but the problem is tanks should I produce more scorpion or marauder tanks? or rocket buggy? cuz thrax tanks cant destroy kwai's tanks

... snip ...

need some strategies

That was actually pretty easy.

max team war, toxin vs tank, no start units, 50K starting cash

I've got a replay but when I play it back it fails to build my palace and I get overrun ... hmmm ... in the mean time ...

Start with toxin in bottom left corner, put tank in upper right corner.

Northest of toxin HQ are a couple bunkers and a tower ... build 3 baracks between the HQ and the bunkers. fill the bunkers and tower with rocket troops, place a worker next to each one for maintenance

build a couple war factories in the same area. build 2 groups of 2-4 marauders, place one group to the left (and beind) and right (and behind) the bunkers; use these units to assist when the onslaught is too much for the bunkers and palace to handle; build a few anti-air units and place them behind the bunkers and palace to provide additional coverage against helo's

build a supply stash in front of each of the four depots. capture the oil wells and refineries.

build a couple motorcycles, send them to pick up the crates at the other 6 locations.

once you have a war factory setup, build a palace right next to the right most bunker; put the palace to the southest of the bunker; the objective is to have the oncoming tanks run right into the bunker and palace (both full of rocket troops) at the same time

send JK out in front of the group to snipe microwave/radar tanks, helo's and overlords; during lulls in the action send a worker out to bring overlords back into your base to provide additional defense

line the east and north edges of the base with stinger sites; place workers near sites for maintenance purposes

build 3-6 scud storms build the scud storms as early as possible so that you can launch before his sole nuke comes online

build several black markets; make sure you purchase your upgrades, preference first to the rocket upgrades and worker shoes

tank spreads his base out a good bit so make sure you have 6-12 radar vans (with upgrades) so that you can scope out his base

use scud storms to take out his higher tech buildings, HQ and power (to disable nuke)

if you want to go on the offensive at this point ... marauders do so-so against his tanks if they have a full set of upgrades and you're willing to sacrifice quite a few; take some anti-air with you to counter his helo's; rocket buggies (with upgrades) will probably be a better solution than rocket artillery ... flat map means buggies almost always have line of sight and they're much faster than the rocket artillery (ie, can run away from computer's slower tanks)

-------

In my first try on this map I stayed within my sw base boundaries, ie, I didn't spread my base out to the other areas of the map; this way the AI came directly at me with all of his tank rushes; with said tank rushes running right into the bunker/palace combo, a couple stingers on the flanks, a handful of marauders to provide additional backup, and JK sniping the microwave/radar tanks; as soon as my scud storms were ready I decimated a good bit of his base, also cutting power to disable his nuke launcher; sat back and waited for the scud storms to count down again and launced a second wave of missiles; I then used a mix of marauders, overlords and rocket artillery to clean up the rest of the map.

------

Next time I'm thinking I'll setup the same defenses and enough scud storms to allow me to take out his nuke, then use rocket buggies (w/ upgrades) and anti-air vehicles to snipe at his base; these vehicles are fast and should be able to do a good bit of hit-n-run with his slower tank units ... just gotta watch out for helo's and any migs he may send my way.

------

OK, ran it again, similar scenario as my first game. Used rocket buggies to provide secondary support (as opposed to marauders). Got a decent replay out of this one (see attached).

This post has been edited by markp: 13 Nov 2010, 14:30

Attached File(s)

 max_team_war___human_toxin_vs_computer_tank.zip ( 274.34K ) Number of downloads: 9

 

[Chyros]

But Tank doesn't have any artillery, so he'll lose against say, a turtler Laser general.

Turtlers never win any game.

[Skoony]

Damn.... I wanted to watch that, but Generals doesn't find the replay. What Shockwave version are you using?

[markp]

Damn.... I wanted to watch that, but Generals doesn't find the replay. What Shockwave version are you using?

shockwave 0.951 (.95 + .951 patch) (windows)

Here's another replay.

This time I used the 4 bunkers in the middle of the map as my 'choke' point. I then used buggies to harass his armor for most of the game. Once a large group of armor started to chase my buggies, I'd just run the armor in front of the bunkers and palace (full of rocket troops) ... can you say meat grinder? ;-)

Attached File(s)

 max_team_war___human_toxin_vs_computer_tank2.zip ( 314.73K ) Number of downloads: 4

 

[Skoony]

I have the latest version, but you are the first one I haven't been able to watch a replay from. Strange.
Also, ironically enough, I cannot access any of your files now. x)

[markp]

I have the latest version, but you are the first one I haven't been able to watch a replay from. Strange.
Also, ironically enough, I cannot access any of your files now. x)

Hmmmm, that's a pisser.

I've got ZH patched to 1.04, and Shockwave 0.95 patched to 0.951, running on Windows XP Home.

Now that I think about it ... most of the replays I download from these forums give me a warning about the replay being an older version of the software ... not sure what that's about ... suggestions? anyone?

[Skoony]

Now that I think about it ... most of the replays I download from these forums give me a warning about the replay being an older version of the software ... not sure what that's about ... suggestions? anyone?

I get those on about 98 % of replays, but they have all worked nicely.

[Frostyarmy]

But Tank doesn't have any artillery, so he'll lose against say, a turtler Laser general.

This is incredibly false , were are you getting your info?

Turtlers never win any game , at least a REAL game

[oyuboy]

The good thing about laser general is his defense.

[Skoony]

This is incredibly false , were are you getting your info?

Turtlers never win any game , at least a REAL game

I really don't have any idea, I just picked it up from the forum. They seemed so convincing, I believed them.

[Shockwavelover84]

You cant.

Tank general is easily the most overpowered general in the whole game and if your erase your sides main advantage - speed you WILL loose.

That depends - in a wide open map the Tank General has a huge advantage, but in a map with tight confined spaces and mountain passes, a strong Air force or artillery can give him a run for his money.