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Wiki related questions
3rdShockArmy
post 24 Mar 2016, 20:51
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If you ever decide to invade Russia, for the love of God, bring some warm clothes. We don't want you to blame the "evil Russian winter" when you get crushed, like everyone else who tried.



QUOTE
Widespread atrocities are reported, as millions of European civilians are either slaughtered or sent to gulags; some of these gulags are rebuilt from long-abandoned Nazi concentration camps, further contributing the horror.


I'd just like to know if the Wiki timeline is really cannon, considering that I've never seen these kind of lines in the lore. I know that the Russians are the "bad guys" in the story, but one cliche I can live with. However, Nazi analogies are completely unnecessary and out of place. I wonder why do people who edit the Wiki have to be that biased?


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(USA)Bruce
post 24 Mar 2016, 21:01
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 24 Mar 2016, 21:51) *
I wonder why do people who edit the Wiki have to be that biased?


I remember the days of the wiki when:
America (In ROTR cannon mind you)

Started a holy crusade, for oil and destroyed the nations in the middle east.Plus It wanted to protect isreal....From THIS the GLA emerged, from the ruinous ashes of the destroyed middle eastern nations.

USA was an evil imperialist nation that had holy fever agaisnt all muslims.They were zionist puppets...The europeans had also raped chidlren In africa, I remember reading that, oh and the GLA was also founded by the CIA.

Russia was crippled due to the CIA backed GLA hence it wasnt in the game till ROTR,

@Rikerzz, what other bullshit do you remember on the wiki?

TL DR: Wiki was a much of very anti west pro east/middle eastern biases....Thank god theres only small mistakes here and there.

This post has been edited by (USA)Bruce: 24 Mar 2016, 21:40


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 25 Mar 2016, 0:02
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 24 Mar 2016, 21:01) *
@Rikerzz, what other bullshit do you remember on the wiki?


"and usa invaded the middle east for oil and to help israel"
10/10 for understanding both in game and IRL geopolitics


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3rdShockArmy
post 25 Mar 2016, 1:12
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If you ever decide to invade Russia, for the love of God, bring some warm clothes. We don't want you to blame the "evil Russian winter" when you get crushed, like everyone else who tried.



So just because someone decided to involve RL politics in a mod for an old game, we should continue to endorse such things and not just stop them? If someone says those things about the US, should we also go the other way and go even harder on other factions? Anyway, lets not start a heated discussion. I was just wondering whether those lines were cannon. I got my answer.


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GeneralCamo
post 25 Mar 2016, 1:51
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The wiki is a mess, just from a cursory look at it. Who is the admin of this thing? Did he delegate active moderators?
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3rdShockArmy
post 25 Mar 2016, 2:39
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If you ever decide to invade Russia, for the love of God, bring some warm clothes. We don't want you to blame the "evil Russian winter" when you get crushed, like everyone else who tried.



I couldn't agree more. The current Wiki really is a mess. I remember someone mentioned earlier that the Devs are considering making their own Wiki akin to Shockwave's old Wiki, which was great. I know that there isn't enough time for that considering the future updates and RL, but if we, regular members can help in any way, non-biased, objective way, I think many of us would be glad to do it. Including myself.

This post has been edited by 3rdShockArmy: 25 Mar 2016, 14:49


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GeneralCamo
post 25 Mar 2016, 2:45
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I'll have a talk with InsurgentCell, current admin of the wiki. I have been granted permission by our current lead writer (not sure if I can reveal who it is) to work on this thing. I have plans for huge restructuring of certain aspects of the wiki, to make it more efficient and prevent future issues from occurring. I would appreciate any support I would get in implementing these plans.
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SoraZ
post 25 Mar 2016, 13:55
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There was talk to create a new Wiki which is directly hosted on the SWR Server, so I suggest we wait and see if that can be made, before we waste effort.


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3rdShockArmy
post 25 Mar 2016, 14:56
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If you ever decide to invade Russia, for the love of God, bring some warm clothes. We don't want you to blame the "evil Russian winter" when you get crushed, like everyone else who tried.



Ok. You're the Devs. If you get into it and ever need help with technicalities like typos or anything else you don't want to waste your time with, just let us know and we'll do whatever we can (at least I will).

This post has been edited by 3rdShockArmy: 25 Mar 2016, 14:58


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MARS
post 25 Mar 2016, 15:24
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QUOTE (3rdShockArmy @ 24 Mar 2016, 20:51) *
I'd just like to know if the Wiki timeline is really cannon, considering that I've never seen these kind of lines in the lore. I know that the Russians are the "bad guys" in the story, but one cliche I can live with. However, Nazi analogies are completely unnecessary and out of place. I wonder why do people who edit the Wiki have to be that biased?


That right there is definitely not canon in any way. This is not the first time that unapproved personal fanon has crept into the timeline page. Considering the general problem with Wikia, I am at this
point also in favour of creating an actual official Wiki based on our own server, with an admin structure that is actually present and accountable. I am not the one to make that decision however.
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3rdShockArmy
post 25 Mar 2016, 15:47
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If you ever decide to invade Russia, for the love of God, bring some warm clothes. We don't want you to blame the "evil Russian winter" when you get crushed, like everyone else who tried.



Could you tell us who is in charge with the story than? Is it Der Krieger?


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MARS
post 25 Mar 2016, 16:02
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That's right, although he will be more focused on developing the story forward. For information on the present state of affairs, the most reliable source of information is actual updates (story sections and render descriptions). For the time being, I recommend reverting the timeline to a previous version, though I am not sure which would be the most suitable one as I can't tell when these dubious additions have been made. If possible, the timeline page should also be protected against unapproved edits until further notice afterwards, before the next person adds their own spin on things and passes it off as actual story. This also reminds me: The middle paragraph of the VDV page has at some point been turned into a Whole Plot Reference to Battlefield 3 without authorisation. I find this very jarring and would prefer to see it removed by someone more competent with handling the Wikia settings than me.
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DerKrieger
post 25 Mar 2016, 23:15
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I take it you mean this segment?

QUOTE
One of their famous operations was in 2014, where a group of three VDV soldiers disguised as civilians infiltrated into Paris to take down a Muslim-extremist bombmaker who was planning to detonate a dirty nuke stolen from Russia in the city center of Paris. With the intelligence from the GRU, the operatives located the postion of the bombmaker and, after a chase through the streets of central Paris and the Euronext Stock Exchange, took the bombmaker out, secured the nuclear device and left the country without attracting attention of the French Gendamerie.


Plays out a little differently from what I remember from Battlefield 3 but I can remove it if its inaccurate.


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MARS
post 26 Mar 2016, 6:24
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Yeah, that bit. This is in no way grounded in established canon and I would appreciate to see it removed.
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PaRralLEl_UniVer...
post 26 Mar 2016, 12:44
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QUOTE (MARS @ 26 Mar 2016, 13:24) *
Yeah, that bit. This is in no way grounded in established canon and I would appreciate to see it removed.

Already deleted. If there's things that needs to be change let me know.


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Talonek
post 6 Jun 2016, 18:58
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QUOTE ((USA)Bruce @ 24 Mar 2016, 14:01) *
TL DR: Wiki was a much of very anti west pro east/middle eastern biases....Thank god theres only small mistakes here and there.


Whoa, when the hell did that happen? I haven't actively participated in the Wiki or the forums for two years.

Also, everyone is different. The big guys (devs and testers) are the same, but all the little guys are new to me.


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SoraZ
post 6 Jun 2016, 19:16
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Well then, welcome back to the forum; and yeah since it's on Wikia, a lot of dubious additions or changes were made on the Wiki, often without fact checking or indeed outright violating the canon, and of these in many cases out of sheer spite or some other reason. There were some initial plans internally to rectify it eventually, but nothing quite concrete yet.


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Talonek
post 6 Jun 2016, 19:46
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QUOTE (GeneralCamo @ 24 Mar 2016, 19:45) *
I'll have a talk with InsurgentCell, current admin of the wiki. I have been granted permission by our current lead writer (not sure if I can reveal who it is) to work on this thing. I have plans for huge restructuring of certain aspects of the wiki, to make it more efficient and prevent future issues from occurring. I would appreciate any support I would get in implementing these plans.


Ey m9. I'm still an admin and have a lot of freetime at work. I can help clean up the mess, where ever it needs cleaning.

QUOTE (SoraZ @ 6 Jun 2016, 12:16) *
Well then, welcome back to the forum; and yeah since it's on Wikia, a lot of dubious additions or changes were made on the Wiki, often without fact checking or indeed outright violating the canon, and of these in many cases out of sheer spite or some other reason. There were some initial plans internally to rectify it eventually, but nothing quite concrete yet.


It's nice to be back, thanks.

Working on creating a "shit list" now. Even if there is a plan for a SWR hosted wiki, there is some good material on the wikia that could be carried over, and we have no idea when that wiki could show up.

Until then, I can try pissing on the fires.


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Dynamo128
post 3 Nov 2016, 1:29
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Hello. So this thread has not seen some activity in some time but nonetheless I would like to answer to some stuff, ask some questions and hopefully clarify other stuff as well.

First off, I am one of the admins of the wiki. I have recently become active again on it after a long hiatus (real life and stuff). My main activities on the wiki have been article building of the unit pages, by adding pictures, templates, descriptions of what the units do and how they work where they were missing. One complaint I have noticed not only by reading this thread, but also by a few comments on the ModDB page, is that there is a sort of mockery on the wiki in regards to the lore sections. Personally, my involvement with lore-related material has been almost non-existant so I don't really know exactly what is wrong with it or who is responsible but I would like to state nonetheless that the VDV case that was mentioned above proves a good example: from my understanding, the lore was added by someone who is apparently obsessed with battlefield 3 (a game I never played, I don't really play modern games). Parallel Universe kindly removed the information, but apparently the same user immediately reverted it back and put the false lore back where it used to be. Now, I've removed it again (though this is by now old stuff) and I can deliver appropriate punishment to said user if the people here deem it to be necessary. Nonetheless I think this is worth mentioning because it proves how the problem is twofold: on one hand, one issue ROTR has, has always had and likely will always have, is an abudance of people who for some reason feels this mod needs to be their "modern warfare" wet dream. So these people constantly bring up battlefield or call of duty and try to shove ROTR lore and timeline into it for some bizarre reason, but also, even aside for games, there is the constant complaints of "Why are you not replacing this old plane with the hyper realistic next generation USA/Chinese/Russia plane??????", which is something that both the wiki and the moddb page has to answer basically every week. To be honest at this point I have a feeling that putting a sticker somewhere that says "This mod is not meant to simulate real life and any complaints about the units not reflecting the actual real life arsenal of the respective countries will be ignored" would not be a half bad idea. But that's just me. On the other hand though this also exposes a fundamental issue with Wikia, and that is that from my understanding it is impossible to force only registered users to be able to edit articles. If such a policy were implemented the quality of the wiki would improve massively because then we wouldn't have to track down every random edit from IP addresses (for example I recently had to clean up a whole bunch of articles from a completely random unregistered user who was ruining the punctuation and grammar on random articles. like, really.). I have been thinking about messaging the wikia staff to try and get this issue sorted but I cannot predict whether they'll listen or not. It's worth a shot if you people deem these issues to be big enough that it warrants giving it a shot.

However... there's the question I wanted to ask given the (albeit months old as said) posts I am seeing here. There is talk of making an official wiki of ROTR ran by the SWR team itself. I would like to ask if this, as of now, is a project that is actually being undertaken or just an idea that was floating around due to issues with Wikia (certainly not the first time that has happened, see the doom wiki) or with the current rotr wiki itself, or... whatever else it may be. The reason I'm asking is because I have spent literally years working on this wiki and improving it visually and content-wise (at least as far as the unit pages go) and was even in the process of describing and documenting some of the skirmish maps (at least the official maps). If the wiki is going to be abandoned to make room for a completely new one then I wonder whether it's even worth it continuing to work on this. Personally I've enjoyed documenting the ROTR universe as best as I could, and I am a long time fan, having played the mod from way before GLA was even re-introduced into the game. But, if the issues are mostly related to what has been described in this last page (i.e., the lore is not as faithful or up to date as it could be and it being hijacked by strangers), then, at least personally, I think that's a minor part of the wiki and solving the issues related to it shouldn't prove too difficult or time consuming as long as people are willing to help with it.

To conclude... I think this post has been a good opportunity to bring back talk about both the current plans the ROTR team has in regards to a possible new wiki (if any such plans exist), and, in either case, about how you, ROTR community, deems the wiki should be further improved. I have not paid attention to this thread as much as I should have but I think I speak for the entirety of the ROTR wiki staff when I say that cooperation can only do us all good.

Thanks for your attention and I hope you have a good day.
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