What's at stake?, a quick glance and some questions about the rotr lore Options

[Jam Hacker]

I generally browsed the fluff and saw a few thread discussing this topic, one of the people summarizes the post ZH diplomatic relationship between the five major factions as something like this:
GLA and Russia are sort of hated by all in various degrees, and they are tied in the weapons trade scandal. Even when Russia and Europe is at war, they still sell stuff to suspicious clients.
Russian president doesn't really want a perpetual war, he started this reluctantly in the first place. The war started majorly due to economic recession caused by Europe's Solaris project, along with a few incidents which directs public hatred towards Europe.
US ain't got no quarrel with Russia, but even NATO is no more, they still side with Europe because of__________(reasons I don't recall )
Ever since the failure of the US-PRC combined assault on Russian base in Sultan, presumably the shell map scene, the alliance between the two countries have virtually broken down.
China had some border conflict with Russia at North East region of the country or immigrants unrest?. It seems Russia have risked starting another war with China in order to ______
Europe(actually, why does it called ECA when it includes countries like Ireland and GB?) having owned China for liberating her from GLA control, is still in debt and have defaulted since the Russo-European War broke out.
GLA have lost much of its influence in central east Asia, mid east and Europe and set up shops at central Africa. because other nations such as US,China,Russia,Europe and Latin America have divided Africa, they start to attack everyone.Thanks to ______, they still retain the influence in the rest of the world.
It seems like the attention is focused on the war between Russia and Europe, which America decides to participate but not deeply involved like they did in World War II.
China probably has the incentive to support Europe if they wanted their money, but that is far from an excuse to start a war with Russia, since China and Russia shares a very long borderline, the conflict at Northeast China doesn't seem to have the potential of escalating into a all out war like Russia with Europe, otherwise the Chinese would have to reinforce the entire China-Russia border, and Russians would have to do likewise.
US involvement in Europe takes the form of a relatively small task force, which also seems to reduce its role.
I simply cannot imagine all five factions being pitched against one another in a single war, so far it seems that GLA doesn't have much to do with other countries, especially when a full-fledged war is going on, people tend not to get hyper about anti-terrorism.
PS: Almost immediately after ZH, China supported DPRK the Third Korean war, which seems to have ended in South's favor and Japan got involved, but what are the implications of this event?
PPS: Bavaria seceded from EU(or Germany) and was it in the ECA or have anything to do with Chinese occupation?

This post has been edited by Jam Hacker: 13 Feb 2014, 1:44

[DELETED MEMBER]

US ain't got no quarrel with Russia, but even NATO is no more, they still side with Europe because of__________(reasons I don't recall )

they want to rebuild they relationships with Europe again if i recall

It seems Russia have risked starting another war with China in order to ______

China has been expanding, and there are some ethnical troubles in the area, plus the whole war may put the debt in problems (china probably wants europe a little damage so they can throw about debt at them but they dont want it too much since they still want the money i guess)

The China and the GLA seems to be more background info right instead of part of the main dish through
but i am probably incorrect in somepoints (or all of them)

[Jam Hacker]

they want to rebuild they relationships with Europe again if i recall

Bold move

China has been expanding, and there are some ethnical troubles in the area, plus the whole war may put the debt in problems (china probably wants europe a little damage so they can throw about debt at them but they dont want it too much since they still want the money i guess)

The China and the GLA seems to be more background info right instead of part of the main dish through
but i am probably incorrect in somepoints (or all of them)

are they going to fight or not?
If I was the chairman I'd probably support Europe and make Russia look like bully, which would make China popular with both US and Europe, and demand more money from Europe because they didn't fulfill their obligation.

And I simply cannot imagine GLA get their hands on this matter, they are in another complete different war with all the other powers

This post has been edited by Jam Hacker: 13 Feb 2014, 3:46

[(USA)Bruce]

The GLA didnt loose influance in the east asia at all.They're like the warhammer orcs, they dont stop till you or they are dead.Only a show of force makes them retreat until they have something to match yours.

Even after its crushing defeats in asia or one of the chineese rouge generals joining the gla cause he was one of the turkish minorities or something. (Mars mentioned to write something about it)

After deathstrikes kamikaze and the fall of the first gla leadership cells kept on emerging, trading, growing....GLA doesnt have a central leadership.They retain controll after who knows how much internal fighting and Suleyman rising to the challenge of leading them.
America doesnT Need to go full force in the european war, They can just send a few elite guys and win the war hehehehe but It mostly has to do with the huge aircraft carrier with disposeable drones IMO.After such a global loss even 20 years ago, the public wont justify a full brunt war yet.They're more into pinpoint targeting now...So they'd rather send in a Seal via halo drop rather then paladin tank batalions blazing in.

As for china...we've yet to see what they got going, personally I would want a war between china and the US.Lotus capturing drone fleets and such
Seriously thou the only real thing between the ECA-Russian war they've Done is erm...an old retired general gave a thumbs up for using neutron weapons.

"And I simply cannot imagine GLA get their hands on this matter, they are in another complete different war with all the other powers "

Oh I can...
While america was suffering from its loss of a carrier in the mediterranean they've snuck into american borders and stole truck loads of chemicals from them.So while either side is loosing the gla will appear and desimate both sides...
Plus with all the chaos and unrest in europe+the russians selling arms to anyone that looks remotely legit I'd say theres potential for new gla cells.The Irish Republican Army was somewhat confirmed or said to have a possible comeback...

This post has been edited by (USA)Bruce: 13 Feb 2014, 6:25

[Jam Hacker]

The GLA didnt loose influance in the east asia at all.They're like the warhammer orcs, they dont stop till you or they are dead.Only a show of force makes them retreat until they have something to match yours.

Well actually the way Orc(k)s fight is more like China, but you've made your point.

Even after its crushing defeats in asia or one of the chineese rouge generals joining the gla cause he was one of the turkish minorities or something. (Mars mentioned to write something about it)

How extraordinary! I made up a story of my own: I don't really see why a Chinese general would defect to GLA other than China had planned it to manipulate some splinter cell of the GLA (and you get to fight them in the GLA campaign!), and since China officially denies this operation, the US would probably consider him a rouge commander. He would also have to act as such to secure China's interest as well as protect China's reputation. That sounds like what they would do and that general made a heroic sacrifice, perhaps they'd secretly make him a martyr or something. It's just a gag to make the US fight China anyway.

As for china...we've yet to see what they got going, personally I would want a war between china and the US.Lotus capturing drone fleets and such

As I was saying, What actually happened in Korea?
I'd like to see US pushing a little further, doesn't matter whether they fight China or GLA, If it was China, that would sort of making "the Reds" fighting side by side and gets a bit clichéd. Suppose there was a campaign, it's probably like YR and CCG where pretty much in every level your job is to deal with the same faction and some captured equipment from other factions.

Oh I can...
While america was suffering from its loss of a carrier in the mediterranean they've snuck into american borders and stole truck loads of chemicals from them.So while either side is loosing the gla will appear and desimate both sides...
Plus with all the chaos and unrest in europe+the russians selling arms to anyone that looks remotely legit I'd say theres potential for new gla cells.The Irish Republican Army was somewhat confirmed or said to have a possible comeback...

"this matter" being the Russo-European War. Or suppose China and Russia agree to have a small party, it would be pretty hard or unwise for GLA to waltz in.
And what are they fighting for again? Was it a vague concept of liberating the oppressed nations or blowing trucks for fun.
Anyway homefronts are a bit too harsh on Europe and Russia, and too little of a trouble for mass mobilization for Chinese.
(there are 5 levels in the entirety of generals universe concerning homeland security)
I don't know about America, but since the bulk of her troops are not engaged in combat, they should be able to spare some resources to police their country.
bottom line is it's hard to imagine a second Global War on Terror and World War I again happen at the same time, and it's not GLA's MO to jump into the boiling pot. Doesn't help liberating the people either, if some of this not-so-tight confederation of cell leaders sincerely mean it - Give us some achievements they've made in their effort in freedom fighting, or are we just going to sympathize their terrible state while continuing antagonize them as the baddest of all baddies?

[MARS]

A few pointers:

Why did Russia invade the ECA?
Russia's economic boom during the early years of Suvorov's reign was based on the destruction of Europe's economy in ZH. The Chinese provided Europe with funds to rebuild their infrastructure and economy and the Europeans used those funds to buy raw material and fuel from Russia, this making them rich. However, Russo-European relationships started to deteriorate in the 2030s, with the ECA's Solaris project rendering fossil fuels increasingly obsolete in Europe. That was the first strike. Then came the Ukrainian civil war which resulted in the country being split into a pro-European west and a pro-Russian east after the Federation deployed troops to protect their allies. That was the second. Now, after Russia was weakened in Africa by China and the US, the GLA made its move on them. The ECA was reluctant to assist them and even detained the ONE guy who wanted to help the Russians even without an official authorisation; Wolfgang. The Russians interpreted this as a calculated move to drive them out of Africa, which eventually happened; third strike. With the African territories lost and the fuel revenues shrinking, the Russian economy ran into a crisis, which couldn't be remedied even by their involvement in South America. A few years later, an unprecedented heatwave set the bigger part of western Russia on fire, killed thousands and destroyed their crops. At that point, the Russian leadership started openly blaming the ECA, claiming that Solaris was an orbital WMD. Foot shortages and public unrest ensued and Suvorov, whose judgement was coloured by the fact that he saw his entire political legacy in danger, decided that all he could do at this point was to lash out and force the Europeans into a Russian hegemony and steal their technology. He ordered General Aleksandr to stage a fake European attack on Kaliningrad as a pretext and invaded the ECA in June 2045.

Why do Russia and China not like each other?
China was stated to have become the world's leading superpower at the end of ZH. At the same time, Russia was under a corrupt, kleptocratic leadership, politically unstable and economically stagnant. As a result, Russia effectively became dead weight to China, resulting in a sort of split between the two for purely practical reasons. After Suvorov took over, he further reinforced this split by declaring that Russia would return to its former glory through its own strength, i.e. without any other superpower allies. By the time all the powers scrambled for Africa, China and Russia were effectively competing over territory and resources, with Russia pulling the short stick. At the same time, the Russian Far-East remained economically underdeveloped and turned into a demographic sinkhole, which huge parts of the population moving West while China actively encourages its people to move abroad, i.e. to South East Asia and Eastern Russia, since the Party is hoping to eventually annex these territories via demographic assimilation. This results in ethnic tensions between Russians and Chinese expatriates in the Far-East and while the Russian government is -NOT- actively pursuing any racist policies, its ability to crack down on these violent extremists in that region seems very limited, prompting the Chinese to establish their own citizen militia which may or may not be in contact with the Ministry of State Security back home.

What's America's part in all this?
The US enacted a strict policy of isolationism at the end of ZH because the government caved into the war-weariness of the population. This not only severred their geopolitical ties, including NATO, but it also had a catastrophic effect on their economy. As a result, the US have spent the entirety of the following years trying to catch back up to the rest of the world. They formed the North American Union with Canada and Mexico in order to built a strong economy that didn't depend on the rest of the world quite as much. They re-approached their allies such as Japan, Turkey, Israel and apparently Georgia. They got involved in Africa by the time everyone else moved in there as well and quickly teamed up with the Chinese (the closest thing to a superpower ally they still had due to mutual dependencies) to curb Russia's expansion in the region. The current US government under William Bradford is actively anti-Russian in a very hawkish, Reagan-esque manner, simply because they don't want to let go of the old mindset that an assertive Russia cannot be up to any good. Ever since the outbreak of the Russo-European War, America gathered intelligence behind the scenes to stay informed and by the time France started nuking the Russians, the President called for a military intervention on the basis that America simply cannot allow Russia to establish itself as the ruler of Eurasia, citing the desperation of the ECA and the atrocities of General Aleksandr as the main reasons. Naturally, they do have their own interests as well: We can assume that the US are hoping to re-establish NATO, make Europe once again dependent on America and establish military facilities on its soil.

What's at stake?
America: If their involvement in Europe doesn't result in a joint US/European victory, they wouldn't be able to restore their relationship with Europe.
Europe: If they lose, Russia will likely break them down into a whole bunch of tiny client states with no real agency or meaning in the world.
Russia: If they lose, the country will fall into complete turmoil. The climate will be much like the early 1990s with severe risk of a civil war.
China: Their greatest risk at this time is a war with Russia which may or may not escalate into a full-scale nuclear exchange.

[Svea Rike]

And you've said this'll all end peacefully... Boy I wonder how this will work out.

EDIT: You didn't mention what the GLA will win from this war. I wonder...

This post has been edited by swedishplayer-97: 13 Feb 2014, 9:23

[MARS]

'Peacefully' is not the right word. All I said was that there won't be a nuclear holocaust that simply wipes out the bigger part of the human race and that none of the factions involved in WW3 will end up utterly humiliated, gutted or flat-out exterminated.

[Pepo]

...that none of the factions involved in WW3 will end up utterly humiliated, gutted or flat-out exterminated.

so the side that lose are going to get reasonable terms that doesn't led to revenge( ww1 germany)

[Cobretti]

Another good point to take into consideration about the US entry into the war: US foreign policy since at least WWII has been centered around preventing any one empire from taking control of Eurasia and potentially threatening the Americas. It seems that the Russian government is fairly hostile towards the United States even before the invasion of Europe, and if the Russian Federation managed to conquer Europe it would soon be able to seriously threaten the United States or China. To American strategic planners, a failure to aid the ECA in repulsing the Russian invasion would inevitably lead to a Russian attack on the United States at some point in the future.

[Jam Hacker]

its ability to crack down on these violent extremists in that region seems very limited, prompting the Chinese to establish their own citizen militia which may or may not be in contact with the Ministry of State Security back home.

What kind of military forces are we talking about, mechanized infantries? tanks, helicopters and fighter jets? or just a Chinese version of angry mob?

If their involvement in Europe doesn't result in a joint US/European victory, they wouldn't be able to restore their relationship with Europe.

US isn't facing much trouble compare to the rest of the factions.

So now we see that US probably won't fight China. Russia and China are likely go hot but currently standing off (that's going to be a boring campaign to play BTW). And if Russia does get into another war, i'm guessing at least two of her three opponents will outlast her. Seriously America can throw forces across the arctic sea or across the Bering Strait to help China as well, if the POTUS really wants to put Russia down for good.

Does China care about Europe anyway, about their money at least?
And GLA hasn't got their hands on anything... yet. If I were them I'd make good use of salami tactics

[MARS]

What kind of military forces are we talking about, mechanized infantries? tanks, helicopters and fighter jets? or just a Chinese version of angry mob?

Nowhere near military grade. More along the lines of an organised neighbourhood watch that may or may not end up taking the law into its own hands in the event that the Russian police fails to crack down on the racist attacks. The real problem would arise from the fact that China seems to be equipping these vigilante groups with smallarms and possibly even propaganda material, if the Russian propaganda report from 'The Fourth Estate' is any indication.

From a purely military perspective, America and China could easily team up in the Pacific and take a sledgehammer to the Russian Far-East. The problem is that a.) China does not have a casus belli and b.) America might not want to run the risk of a nuclear escalation by directly invading Russian home territory. Naturally, this does not rule out the possibility of bombing and missile strikes against the Pacific Fleet and high-value military targets.

[Jester]

Will China and the GLA have any combat action in the European conflict are there plans to involve these two factions or are they being left out?. I personally think if there left out it would make no sense to include them in the game.

[MARS]

They will eventually be involved in the story as well. One could argue that the GLA already had some limelight during the whole African period prior to the war though and since we didn't want to have another cataclysmic war revolving around their actions, they were left out of WW3 until now.

[Dangerman]

They will eventually be involved in the story as well. One could argue that the GLA already had some limelight during the whole African period prior to the war though and since we didn't want to have another cataclysmic war revolving around their actions, they were left out of WW3 until now.

Wait so the GLA are going to get involved in WW3?

[Jam Hacker]

Nowhere near military grade. More along the lines of an organised neighbourhood watch that may or may not end up taking the law into its own hands in the event that the Russian police fails to crack down on the racist attacks. The real problem would arise from the fact that China seems to be equipping these vigilante groups with smallarms and possibly even propaganda material, if the Russian propaganda report from 'The Fourth Estate' is any indication.

I see China is kind of like a bully who would appear to be the victim here. If you can spare some time maybe we can get a bit deeper into how the Chinese mass infiltrated Russian border and established communities there, I take they don't have visas? Was China simply too crowded to live or they were intoxicated by the propaganda to pioneer the new front line.
And if invading Russia would result a nuclear retaliation, what's the use of amassing conventional forces when the chips are down, the balloon goes up and lights go out? Russia isn't going to start a eastern front with massive military confrontation as I understand it.

Also what was Russia's reaction to ECA's neutron bomb other than sending NBC protection specialists?

[MARS]

It's the -US- who are being reluctant to enter Russian territory for fear of retaliation. The Chinese are massing forces on their side of the Mongolian border in order to be prepared in the event that Russia goes completely out of control. Gotta keep in mind that they are technically -the- strongest military/industrial power in the world. Plus, their leadership probably operates under the classic 'even if you wipe out 500 million of us, there's still gonna be another 500 million' mindset. That is not to say that they're actively hoping for an escalation, but they would be ready for one if a war was forced upon them and they're obviously hoping for an excuse to take advantage of Russia's situation.

As for the neutron bombings, Russia was naturally appalled and decried the whole thing as a war crime in front of the UN, which it technically -is- since neutron bombs were officially outlawed after the GWOT, at the behest of China itself no less because they wanted to do something about their international image. Unfortunately, the UN are powerless and since we can assume that France and Britain still have their seats in the security council, it's unlikely that anything will come out of this during wartime. As a result of the attack, Russia deployed the entirety of their NBC protection forces (= Shmel Troopers), but the President also passed two important decrees: One, General Zhukov was given the privilege of deploying tactical nuclear weapons on European soil and second, the Perimeter system was placed on full-alert to ensure that a nuclear attack on Russian territory would result in the immediate preparation of all strategic ICBMs in the event that Moscow gets wiped out. The US didn't condemn the neutron attacks directly, but they cited them as a sign of utter desparation, which prompted their President to come forward with his proposal for an armed intervention while the Chinese haven't made any statements yet (presumably since they're still somewhat sympathetic towards the ECA because they want their debts back), although General Tao, who has apparently retired by this point, commented that the attack was cruel, but entirely justified from a military perspective.

Wait so the GLA are going to get involved in WW3?

Technically, although not in the same preposterous 'let's mount a sneak invasion into central Europe' kinda way.

[NeverLoseGuy]

Want to know how will the war end.

[NeverLoseGuy]

What's at stake?
America: If their involvement in Europe doesn't result in a joint US/European victory, they wouldn't be able to restore their relationship with Europe.
Europe: If they lose, Russia will likely break them down into a whole bunch of tiny client states with no real agency or meaning in the world.
Russia: If they lose, the country will fall into complete turmoil. The climate will be much like the early 1990s with severe risk of a civil war.
China: Their greatest risk at this time is a war with Russia which may or may not escalate into a full-scale nuclear exchange.

Hmmm.... Looks like either Russia or ECA must defeat each other to end this war...

[MARS]

Obviously, since they were the two original adversaries whose antagonism resulted in its outbreak...

[DELETED MEMBER]

As for the neutron bombings, Russia was naturally appalled and decried the whole thing as a war crime in front of the UN

I can only assume the ECA countries called out how the country who has Alexander is crying "war crime"

I assume its impossible at this point than the false flag opperation than started the war will never be revealed

[(USA)Bruce]

^

[Shiro]

Actually, your humanity is. Truth being a close second.

[Jam Hacker]

even if you wipe out 500 million of us, there's still gonna be another 500 million' mindset.

I would assume that Russia doesn't have enough ground forces to neither invade china nor defend Chinese incursion and a nuclear strike would be their first response in the event of PLA intervention?

It seems like Russia is the gunner in between two opponents with only one bullet in the chamber. US and GLA are almost completely out of the deadlock, China is on alert level one but hasn't fired a single bullet. so we ended up only ECA and Russia at each other's throats while America sort of poking Russia a bit. Is this going to be part(or the entire) prelude for the possible campaign, or that's just the backstory kind of like sins of the solar empire?

[Warpath]

I would assume that Russia doesn't have enough ground forces to neither invade china nor defend Chinese incursion and a nuclear strike would be their first response in the event of PLA intervention?

It seems like Russia is the gunner in between two opponents with only one bullet in the chamber. US and GLA are almost completely out of the deadlock, China is on alert level one but hasn't fired a single bullet. so we ended up only ECA and Russia at each other's throats while America sort of poking Russia a bit. Is this going to be part(or the entire) prelude for the possible campaign, or that's just the backstory kind of like sins of the solar empire?

In hindsight, yes. Most of their forces are currently fighting in Europe and whatever border garrisons the have on the Sino-Russian border is... well to say insufficient is an big understatement. So yeah, if China invades, Ivan might end up pushing the big red button.

Anyways, I remember something about an new SDI by the Americans. How good are their missile interception capabilities?

This post has been edited by Warpath: 16 Feb 2014, 2:57