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Eca vs Usa, discussion
Zion
post 27 Aug 2016, 18:14
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Im playing as Ace in this game vs Rampage (a fast player) knows what hes doing.

I wana know what usa can do vs eca.. I dislike eca, I play random mostly so eca still pops up once in a while, but to me it is too funny how easy it is to play eca..
I know all my eca hotkeys, including buildings, air units, t0-t1 ground, and defenses.. this allows my to grow fast, and little usa could of done in that game, a few towers for early game, and u block off all t0 usa units, all i have to do is zone usa, with some sneak attacks, and some suicides, and once i get the bulldog turret i go for the win.

In this particular game, i was having a hard time keeping my cash down, im wondering how a pro eca player that knows what to build and doesnt float,, will ever loose to a usa..
once claymore are out... lol its just a playgound, and free xp no initial cooldown, build and shoot, i never rank up so quickly with any other faction than eca.. its just sooo cost efficent, u loose ur front line? well the opponent garrenteed lost half his army, and with a few follow ups u push them back, and rebuild, with a few mechs i was able to distract usa, and rebuild.. and holy shit is it easy to go eco spam.. after pandora usa had no chance.

what did usa do wrong other being so predictive? yes he could of when nhawks.. but airfields are so easily destroyed, its a huge investment on a map like this. going air start vs eca everyone knows is suicide.
I play usa vs eca matches all the time, and i know how usa feels vs eca.. hopeless, so many counters, not to mentions usa looses to an eca defense rush, like 90% of the time, in this game i was not an ahole

This post has been edited by Zion: 27 Aug 2016, 18:16
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General Scrapstr...
post 27 Aug 2016, 21:32
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I'm not really that much of a pro but common sense would tell you the reason he lost is because you took the middle suppplies and he didn't, you clearly had an economic advantage over him. Also when he went on his first offensive, he could've taken the middle had he microed that one Avenger to take out your Tigers. Avengers can dodge Tiger missiles very easily while attacking on the move.
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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 28 Aug 2016, 2:40
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QUOTE (Zion @ 27 Aug 2016, 18:14) *
going air start vs eca everyone knows is suicide.


It's actually smarter to go for an air start and get hk's + littlebirds to snipe enemy expanding dozers similar to just dicking over an ECA with demo bikes.
If you kill that expanding dozer before it can set up shop you've pretty much won the game at that point.

QUOTE (Zion @ 27 Aug 2016, 18:14) *
I play usa vs eca matches all the time, and i know how usa feels vs eca.. hopeless, so many counters, not to mentions usa looses to an eca defense rush, like 90% of the time, in this game i was not an ahole


This is a very true fact, and yes, there isn't alot usa can do beyond just spam arty and have a boring as hell time, but this has somewhat been addressed in 1.87,


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Sergeant Freedom
post 28 Aug 2016, 3:22
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Snipe their solar reactor with raptors.

Just about cripples ECA early game.


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 28 Aug 2016, 4:06
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You would need 8 raptors for that without LGM.
Thats not viable. You need to assault it with ground forces or air + GP to kill the solar at that point.


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chemisthypnos
post 28 Aug 2016, 5:08
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 27 Aug 2016, 21:40) *
It's actually smarter to go for an air start and get hk's + littlebirds to snipe enemy expanding dozers similar to just dicking over an ECA with demo bikes.
If you kill that expanding dozer before it can set up shop you've pretty much won the game at that point.



This is a very true fact, and yes, there isn't alot usa can do beyond just spam arty and have a boring as hell time, but this has somewhat been addressed in 1.87,

This seems to be the general case for just about all factions against ECA. Especially Russia.


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Knjaz.
post 28 Aug 2016, 22:38
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 28 Aug 2016, 6:06) *
You would need 8 raptors for that without LGM.
Thats not viable. You need to assault it with ground forces or air + GP to kill the solar at that point.


*with LGM.
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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 28 Aug 2016, 23:55
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With LGM? How many is it without then, 12?


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Knjaz.
post 29 Aug 2016, 0:20
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 29 Aug 2016, 1:55) *
With LGM? How many is it without then, 12?


~10.

Solar has 4000 health.
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Zion
post 29 Aug 2016, 14:41
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Sniping the solar reactor is not always an effective strat, and good players will make sure you can't. In this game, I thought claymores are a bit overpowered, they takeout all infantry in one shot, as well as artillery, and light armor. He would of needed to suicide all his raptors to kill atleast 2, and I had 3, and money to build more. I stopped building howetzers because they have an initial cooldown, and are stationary. Claymores are just crazy units in my opinion.. I rather build 2 claymores and do more damage, than build sw, that can be fired once, and wait like a million years.. 2 claymores vs warfactory, kinda silly imo. Howeys were a problem because they would takout bases on smaller maps, well claymores now can take out bases on any map O.o

and the xp gain.. omg unless u just plain horrible with the mouse, a few claymores will get u too rank 5 in no time.

As far as people saying that I had eco advantage? well yea cuz he couldn't do anything to prevent me from it. He couldn't take his front supply's because my defensive was too close to him

This post has been edited by Zion: 29 Aug 2016, 14:43
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Skitt
post 29 Aug 2016, 14:47
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we back on an eca bash again?

k usa v eca.

early rush
lgm rapters on solar
nighthawks
overwelm with tomas
paradrops into back of the base to take out solar
commanchie spam
guardian drone spam (upgraded fully)
hk dozer snipes
gp's on the eco


ecas effectiveness is highly map dependant


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Zion
post 29 Aug 2016, 14:49
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QUOTE (Skitt @ 29 Aug 2016, 9:47) *
we back on an eca bash again?

not eco bash.. claymore bash
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Zion
post 29 Aug 2016, 15:11
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QUOTE (Zion @ 29 Aug 2016, 9:49) *
not eca bash.. claymore bash

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Mizo
post 30 Aug 2016, 12:28
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Current claymored are OP.
600 hp on super artillery for a unit at this caliber in the default ECA roster is .... yeah. Claymores got the RGO treatment in the next build, which makes them Very risky to use due to them being alot easier to snipe.

As for USA vs ECA .... its a mixed bag.

Any map with garrisons on key locations like lagoon or homeland rock is an Auto-win for USA due to combat drop and the fact ECA has to pay 1.5k to get access to its anti-garrisons while all factions get theirs earlier and at a much cheaper time.
Early combat drops murder ECA so badly. We all tested this, and came to this conclusion.

Second, if ECA goes warfactory route, then they will delay their anti-garrison weapons for a while in favor for early harrassment, US players should really use garrisons to their advantage.

If ECA goes Field Command, it means they will probably get the anti-garrisons for the felin AA and the panzerfaust vacum rockets, but this forsakes harassment potential against USA ( aside from dozer rush, which can be stopped if scouted, similar to a gla worker). USA players should have this knowledge , and abuse those weaknesses otherwise, they're not fighting ECA right.

Mid game is where the match is decided. ECA had to secure both Anti-infantry, anti-air and anti-ground defense networks in case US goes combined arms. Like any other faction, they should keep an offensive presence without nessidarely going for a full fledged attack ( dozer snipes at expansions to pin them down) , while ECA needs to be decisive on its late game plan.
The match favors USA though, due to the fact that you can abuse Burton, and nighthawks.

Late game, USA NEEDS ECONOMY. No ifs, no buts. If ECA fortified up to late game, then unless US secures a steady supply income to minimalize their losses, it's a lost cause.
They should've finished the game in mid game.


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Zion
post 30 Aug 2016, 22:16
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lol 12 replys and 2 downloads... when they tell you, that u need to back ur statments up with replays ^^

this community still cracks me up
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Mizo
post 31 Aug 2016, 4:22
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It's more like balance discussion regarding 1.86 are not relevant anymore since all the issues you mentioned just now, were already discussed several months ago, tested, and somehow fixed in the newer builds.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 31 Aug 2016, 4:23


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{Lads}RikerZZZ
post 31 Aug 2016, 4:53
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Somewhat not Somehow Mizo.
There are still issues, but it has been majorly streamlined yes.


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Mizo
post 31 Aug 2016, 11:26
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QUOTE ({Lads}RikerZZZ @ 31 Aug 2016, 5:53) *
Somewhat not Somehow Mizo.
There are still issues, but it has been majorly streamlined yes.



Yeah pretty much. Just wait for 2.0 . ECA will be a drastically different faction, and will probably be the hardest to play aside from US SpecOps , and arguably the weakest against bruteforce generals like Bradly, All Russian and Chinese generals, and GLA for the most part.


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IntoTheRain
post 31 Aug 2016, 17:45
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 31 Aug 2016, 12:26) *
Just wait for 2.0 .


Uh...no? You can't even get 5 factions balanced, how do you plan to balance 15?
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X1Destroy
post 31 Aug 2016, 18:45
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The stuffs we're seeing now, most of them shouldn't have exist to begin with if balance was the main focus.

It's impossible to have good balance with an incomplete game. At least 2.0 have things planned way ahead.

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Mizo
post 31 Aug 2016, 19:50
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QUOTE (IntoTheRain @ 31 Aug 2016, 18:45) *
Uh...no? You can't even get 5 factions balanced, how do you plan to balance 15?


Faction Bloat , Simple as that. The current main factions can do so many things at once, that they're not supposed to be able to do if their contents get divided.
You will never see Claymores and Gun turrents together for example. You will never see Sentinels with Shocktroopers and Hinds, you will never see Pathfinders and Paladins, or heck 70% Chinese unit roster belongs to General Mau.
There are so many combinations of GPs, and units, that are impossible to achieve when all the contents will be separate. This is why balancing the current 5 factions is hard ( the game's not complete anyways you're all technically playing a beta version of the complete product).

With that being said, there will still be a small element of "X general have a better advantage over Y general" but it's a lot more downplayed than Zerohour.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 31 Aug 2016, 19:52


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Zion
post 31 Aug 2016, 20:20
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QUOTE
Faction Bloat , Simple as that.

oh feature bloat, so lets come out with another patch 1.87 that has more 2.0 stuff, and fail to balance that, and just tell everyone.. wait till 2.0 tongue.gif
you are using your "everything will be address in 2.0" line to dismiss everyone? that's pathetic.

I dont even understand why 1.87 is being made.. if everyone is telling us to wait till 2.0 for balance xD

Knjaz balance patch is really good, but only the hunter can make this an official patch. and get players to play it. Id rather have that than 1.87 (if thats the current attitude)

This post has been edited by Zion: 31 Aug 2016, 20:22
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Mizo
post 31 Aug 2016, 21:50
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QUOTE (Zion @ 31 Aug 2016, 21:20) *
oh feature bloat, so lets come out with another patch 1.87 that has more 2.0 stuff, and fail to balance that, and just tell everyone.. wait till 2.0 tongue.gif
you are using your "everything will be address in 2.0" line to dismiss everyone? that's pathetic.

I dont even understand why 1.87 is being made.. if everyone is telling us to wait till 2.0 for balance xD

Knjaz balance patch is really good, but only the hunter can make this an official patch. and get players to play it. Id rather have that than 1.87 (if thats the current attitude)


You have no credible say in how these things work , since you don't see the full picture.
The reason 1.87 is in development isn't for balancing reasons alone, in fact that's only a secondary priority. It's to test new mechanical 2.0 features to see how they work out before fully implementing them in the future as well as fixing 1.86's bugs.
And I don't see how is it logical that you're already comparing RGO's balance with 1.87 without even seeing the latter's changelog or even playing the damn thing. Now that's just based on spite.

No, 1.87 is not gonna be fully balanced. It can never be ( due to the reason I said earlier) , but that's not the priority anyways. But it definitely going to play better than 1.86 by shifting the meta a little bit to a more offensive approach, and definitely more refined than RGO. Heck it's not even that feature heavy when it comes to complete new content.

QUOTE
you are using your "everything will be address in 2.0" line to dismiss everyone? that's pathetic


What's the point on discussing things that will be irrelevant by the time the next build(s) ? Imagine a guy who is complaining about 1.85's balance while 1.86 exists. It's exactly the same thing you guys do sometimes.

Am not against balance discussions done by the community, but if Testers/Devs say that particular issue(s) has/have been addressed, it means the issue has already been acknowledged and discussed internally, either in plans for next builds or in 2.0. How exactly is none of your concern for now, since things are always subject to change.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 31 Aug 2016, 22:17


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Zion
post 31 Aug 2016, 23:22
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I guess ill wait and see, wont be too quick to judge..

but when u say 2.0 is where all the problems will be solved.. is completely irrelevant to the present, fix the current patches and then u can boast that 2.0 will be balanced better. and if you can't then how about you get some help. cuz it can be balanced, just no effort is put into it.
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Mizo
post 1 Sep 2016, 0:06
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QUOTE (Zion @ 1 Sep 2016, 0:22) *
but when u say 2.0 is where all the problems will be solved.. is completely irrelevant to the present, fix the current patches and then u can boast that 2.0 will be balanced better. and if you can't then how about you get some help. cuz it can be balanced, just no effort is put into it.


You're saying all that while not knowing a single bit about the development cycle regarding the internal builds and 2.0 . This isn't Knjaz's RGO, fixing issues is not as easy as saying " hey this thing is broken, lets do X to fix it".
Not all 2.0 solutions can be implemented in the current/next builds which would fix a lot of problems because otherwise things will get very messy. This is why I keep telling you to wait for 2.0 to get a better game. However that doesn't mean 1.87 is gonna be unbalanced, in fact I think it's gonna be the most balanced version that's released thus far, (we're so close).
It isn't about being lazy, it's about changing things that do not contradict future plans.

QUOTE
and if you can't then how about you get some help. cuz it can be balanced, just no effort is put into it.


What would end up, is us getting suggestions from people who assume they know exactly what needs to be done to balance something out, while being completely oblivious on the bigger picture....yeah no thanks.
We'd probably be spammed with "ECA OP , Russia OP , USA OP , GLA OP , CHINA BUFFS PLEASE "..... no thanks, we're fine.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 1 Sep 2016, 0:07


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