China pales in comparison with the Russians in RotR Options

[wangho1990]

Seriously, the Chinese arsenal has not improved much from Zero Hour. The faction is still with units of primitive and ugly design, architectural style from the early 50s and with only a handful of high-tech units. Then look back to the Russians: rough and tough units that packs a punch, raw firepower backed with high-tech equipments. They are truly the modernized Red Army.

[Frostyarmy]

Your not serious are you? China palys alot better then they did before.

And if anything russia is kinda dull to play with , your answer for everything is pretty much a bigger tank , think china plays alot cooler then they did before.

This post has been edited by Aaron: 20 Sep 2010, 10:34

[wangho1990]

I'm not talking about the game play, just the faction design. The Chinese war machine is nothing short of antique weapons and tactics, relying on sheer number and brutish force to overwhelm the number (i.e. spamming). The units look nothing different than old relics, and all it has is weird gimmicks like Speaker Towers healing and repairing vehicles. All these, when compared to the highly-advanced Russian units, which although look a bit rough, are good combination of firepower and technology, and above all, a lot more like what you'd expect from a modernised army. Chinese units and architectural design look very primitive and impoverished next to a bunch of those. In fact, they look a lot like the Soviets in Uprising, when they have to scrap up units ranging from outdated vehicle prototype to even road rollers and motorbikes that are originally used to deliver mails.


off-topic: I rather like RotR's tech design, now everyone have T2 and the aircrafts are a lot more realistic than in Zero Hour, and wouldn't have to flee just because of a Mini-gunner.

This post has been edited by wangho1990: 20 Sep 2010, 12:29

[MARS]

But China has always BEEN the "quantity has a quality of its own"-type of faction in Generals.
It wasn't OUR idea to make them all about spamming cheap, mass-produced units. It is exactly what the original designers of the game wanted them to be: Low-cost units that are weak individually but overwhelming in great numbers. No fancy fire & manoeuvre tactics, no stealthy infiltration, just drown the enemy in an unforgiving flood of cheap tanks and human cannon fodder. One of our main goals with this mod is to make it look like an 'unofficial expansion pack', meaning we're not going to change the core mechanics and tactics of the original factions. That includes their visual appearance as well: We're not going to change their architecture or the design philosophy behind their vehicles. That sort of thing simply isn't part of our mission statement.

``...the highly-advanced Russian units, which although look a bit rough, are good combination of
firepower and technology, and above all, a lot more like what you'd expect from a modernised army.´´

Which is the whole point. After decades of decay, Russia went through an era of economical growth and military modernisation in our story line. China on the other hand has an army with numbers ranging in the millions. There's no way to keep such a massive army at the cutting edge of modern technology so they basically said 'fuck all that flimsy modern high-tech bullshit, we'll just overwhelm their multi-million dollar MBTs with dozens of our own ten-a-penny Battlemasters'

[wangho1990]

But China has always BEEN the "quantity has a quality of its own"-type of faction in Generals.
It wasn't OUR idea to make them all about spamming cheap, mass-produced units. It is exactly what the original designers of the game wanted them to be: Low-cost units that are weak individually but overwhelming in great numbers. No fancy fire & manoeuvre tactics, no stealthy infiltration, just drown the enemy in an unforgiving flood of cheap tanks and human cannon fodder. One of our main goals with this mod is to make it look like an 'unofficial expansion pack', meaning we're not going to change the core mechanics and tactics of the original factions. That includes their visual appearance as well: We're not going to change their architecture or the design philosophy behind their vehicles. That sort of thing simply isn't part of our mission statement.

``...the highly-advanced Russian units, which although look a bit rough, are good combination of
firepower and technology, and above all, a lot more like what you'd expect from a modernised army.´´

Which is the whole point. After decades of decay, Russia went through an era of economical growth and military modernisation in our story line. China on the other hand has an army with numbers ranging in the millions. There's no way to keep such a massive army at the cutting edge of modern technology so they basically said 'fuck all that flimsy modern high-tech bullshit, we'll just overwhelm their multi-million dollar MBTs with dozens of our own ten-a-penny Battlemasters'

Truth, truth, truth and...more truth

Which is exactly what I mean. China's tactics are brutish and its army looks primitive and ridiculous in front of their Eastern European comrades. (Oh wait, we are not comrades anymore)

In Generals this isn't apparently because all 3 sides have significantly different playstyle. But in RotR, here comes the Russians with both big tanks AND brains! And ta-da! The Chinese now look very impoverished and laggy.

Of course, I understand that this is the original faction design and you are trying to keep the feel of the original Generals. I'm not suggesting that you should change it, this is just what I felt when I compared the two factions.

[The_Hunter]

Your missing one important point with the russians that everything is OMG EXPANSIVE!!!!.
Only things that come cheap are conscripts.

Russia = steam roller

Which obviously means their slow in moving onward and china is not.

[wangho1990]

As I said, this isn't on about the game play, just the play style, unit design and such. Also high-tech stuff are expansive because they are high-teched.

[The_Hunter]

Well if that's your problem what do you want us to do totaly redesign all of the units and buildings so that we can satisfy your own personal needs?

[wangho1990]

Of course, I understand that this is the original faction design and you are trying to keep the feel of the original Generals. I'm not suggesting that you should change it, this is just what I felt when I compared the two factions.

That is what I'd already said.

Well maybe it is just because I haven't made my intentions clear. I made this thread only to sigh on how awesome the new Russian faction came on to be, which subsequently made China pale in comparison. That is all, pure and simple. I like the way how the factions are in RotR. Not suggesting that you should change it, and not saying "this sucks, China should be cooler than this" or anything like that. That clear enough for ya?

[Overdose]

ROTR's China isn't supposed to reflect today's China.

China is an army that uses old but reliable hardware with modern improvements while using new albeit unconventional or sometimes just strange technology.

[Zeke]

I made this thread only to sigh on how awesome the new Russian faction came on to be, which subsequently made China pale in comparison.

A PM would have been better.

Making a thread about it implies that you want some kind of change to occur.

[Dangerman]

The point of China is a Horde type faction in this mod while Russia is the Powerhouse type while GLA is Subversive though i don't what USA or ECA's type is wheter it is cannons or Balanced (though ECA maybe a subversion of cannons trope being the total oppisoite having Tough units and defenses).

Though with 2.0 This will complicate it far more with its generals system.

This post has been edited by dangerman1337: 21 Sep 2010, 0:52

[Destiny]

In a head to head fight with a faction's respective strengths, with even fully upgraded units, China will triumph over Russia.

[GuardianTempest]

Russia: Size
China: Numbers
Russia+China 2v2: OH SHI-
------------------------------------
Not so much, I agree with the guys above, China's specialty is using old yet reliable units with little improvement in Zerg Rushes/Spamming while Russia is preferring an expansive and expensive steamroll with only tanks/HUEG missiles/One-sided assault.

[Frostyarmy]

Chinas units cheapness and effectiveness is amazing, But even if so i don't see why Russia wouldn't win in a head to head assault ,
There about steamrolling for the most part , seeing as to why its extremely hard to pump a preemptive strike against your enemy as russia
But incredibly easy for china.

Overall china can get tanks out at a much faster rate then china but Russians tanks are more powerful and have a few trickily selves up there hands
to push things to there advantage.

factor in Russians great bombers and interceptors , but then the china's Twin-blade thingy (Han) and you got even ground there to.

Now take in consideration that many players play with 10000000$ (appropriate amount is 10000$) or so dollars and Russia scores the win rather easy against china.

To be honest though i don't see much reason to change anything about the factions , both of them have there issues but if you play more you realize no faction has a real advantage.

This post has been edited by Aaron: 21 Sep 2010, 15:15

[GuardianTempest]

^ Yeah until 2.0+ where you'd get Were-Rushed with Orlov.

[Massey]

well what i think of china's side...

I em just guessing here. but i think EA did they research in to China's army background. With a lot of they training cented around training as one or as a unit. this dating back to the time of the great wall. (i cant remember the generals name) but he is sead to be the father of china's Moden army. This is were my GUESSing comes in. i think EA saw that and base the China's faction around units working as a unit. (E.G Horde bouse).

thats just me taking a guess with no real facts to back that up.
As for the China playing in game.... i think China is the strongest of all 3 factions. BUT!!! (again i cant remember who sead it... and i qoute "The world will be amazed when china wakes up" i think thats how it goes ) China is the slowest of all three factions to get going.( and i have asked that to be change in the past but i dont think they need to be change now ) But once your up and ranning there not much more the other side can do. Also instead of late game income coming in one big block like the USA. (air drop income) you got a stream of money. so if your facing hard times you still got HUGE numbers of troops to help you in times of need. due to the stream of money. So i think as of now (cause we dont know what the GLA and ECA will be like.) i think China is the strongest of all 3 sides. but i think Russia is the coolest

but thats just IMO

[Frostyarmy]

I think its better for you wang to play it online and see how it plays out before you judge to much , honestly they all seem to even out when playing online against a player with a equal mindset and skill , some crazy shit can happen to.

This post has been edited by Aaron: 22 Sep 2010, 15:19

[Zeke]

[rant] HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT GAMEPLAY HIS TALKING ABOUT ART STYLE!!!!!1111oneoneone

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE LOT OF YOU!! [/rant]

Just wanted to point that out.

This post has been edited by Zeke: 23 Sep 2010, 5:31

[Destiny]

I can't imagine China in ROTR with USA-standard-super-cool-sleek-awesome-looking units

[Frostyarmy]

I can't imagine China in ROTR with USA-standard-super-cool-sleek-awesome-looking units

[wangho1990]

[rant] HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT GAMEPLAY HIS TALKING ABOUT ART STYLE!!!!!1111oneoneone

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THE LOT OF YOU!! [/rant]

Just wanted to point that out.

Thank you.

I do understand that game-play wise they are evenly-matched.

Honestly, the design of Generals make you feel like the 3 factions came met each other via time travel. I mean, really, the GLA is armed with WWII-Cold War era weapons, China with military equipment of the 70s (massive use of propaganda, Red Guards, etc.) and the Americans armed with the next generation weapons (Cold Fusion power plant, laser-targeting missile launcher that can be carried by one man, Particle Cannon, etc.). What's even more hilarious is that GLA successful drove the U.S. out of Europe and managed to infiltrate its homeland with these scrapped-up weapons.

[Frostyarmy]

PROTIP: if you want realism get off your computer , problem solved. /joke

the vZH story or ROTR story never really makes any sense as long as its fun is all the matters

[Pickysaurus]

What's even more hilarious is that GLA successful drove the U.S. out of Europe and managed to infiltrate its homeland with these scrapped-up weapons.

The Taliban in Iraq/Afghanistan are doing a good job resisting allied troops and they have similar arms to ZH's GLA. Plus they've also launched an attack behind American borders. If Iraq did have SCUDs or WMDs it might've been different too

[MARS]

There's still a major difference between fighting a guerilla war on your own mountainous and, for everyone else, extremely hostile terrain and invading a continent that houses most of NATO. For what it's worth, the GLA invasion depicted in ZH is nothing more than an unlikely nightmare scenario that might as well be dreamed up by US right-wing talk radio hosts.