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AI Faction Ranking, Strongest to Weakest
Alpha Sinister
post 21 Jan 2018, 8:42
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Hi, I have been playing ROTR since 2014 but only recently decided to join the forums. I love how this mod completely overhauls C&C Generals making it into a different game entirely, coupled with Mizo's smarter AI 1.87 update, playing PvE skirmish has never been so fun (yet frustrating at the same time).

So as the title suggests, I like to pit each faction against another in a map. Observing how Hard Army AIs behaviors when fighting 1 vs 1. After doing many 1 vs 1 battles in various maps, seeing which factions win the most, the ranking from strongest to weakest AIs are:

1. USA
With the new AI script, the USA spamming is just everybody's worst nightmare. Their units are supposed to be expensive and powerful but the AI just builds tons of nighthawks and bombs the enemies AA & dozers without worrying about funds at all. Combined with their deadly airstrike GPs, USA really pawns everything as Hard Army in Skirmish. USA just keep winning even when I try making it 2 vs 1.

2. Russia
This faction is what I'd like to call late game punisher. Sure Russia might look weak at the beginning, but as the game progresses, they just wreak havoc anything that stands on their way with massive tanks, choppers, and artillery. Russia snowballs hard if they are not immediately defeated. They could've been no.1 if not for the stupid target priority that makes Black Bear just ignores any threats on its way focusing on enemies defenses, destroyed without even firing a single round.

3. GLA
GLA is the opposite of Russia, it's an early game punisher. Fast, cheap, upgrade-able units that rules the game at the start, but falls short midway through and doesn't pose much threat in late game. Their most valuable units are the BM-21 Grads, Ural Trucks, and Angry Mobs (I've seen a bunch of angry mobs destroying more than half of Russian base). The Anthrax Bomb GP is an overkill, since it kills all ground units and denies any new building constructions for like 1-2 in game-minutes. Without those I doubt GLA could stand a chance winning against other factions.

4. China
I still have no idea how China would be weaker than I expected. They're supposed to be the new superpower in ZH but in ROTR?. I feel like China is lacking something even though it looks so strong. Or is it because the AI keeps spamming units that don't even attack? I don't know, maybe anyone can tell me? is it because of using chinese products so the quality of units are horrible? nonetheless, China AI doesn't seem to be doing so well in skirmish. Not only they are the biggest lag contributor, but also they often produce units without even using them!

5. ECA
I'm not even surprised. No matter how strong ECA's defenses are, it can still be breached by artillery. Also, the AI seem to not be doing the defense formations right (AA & mortar in the front, ground defense in the back). With weak offensive units, I'm not sure how ECA could win against other factions without the use of GPs and SWs. But I think it mostly lays at fault with how the AI couldn't use ECA in the right way.


I ranked them based on the number of times winning and the method of defeating enemies. If any of you has something I forgot to mention or plain disagree with this list, feel free to reply.



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XoGamer
post 21 Jan 2018, 9:09
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I disagree, it should look something more like this:

1. USA
2. GLA
3. Russia + ECA (they are basically the same)
4. China

altho I have a distinct love for china, the AI does not challenge me vs. medium in which all the other AI (as of PB1.3) tend to be ruthless.

that's my 2 cents

edit: to be fair, I usually play 2v2 so that kinda invalidates my arguement

edit 2: it might have something to do with the factions themselves?

This post has been edited by XoGamer: 21 Jan 2018, 9:10


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Alpha Sinister
post 21 Jan 2018, 10:13
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Yeah, if looking at the meta when playing in teams, the list changes since my ranking is solely based on 1 vs 1.


By the way, has anybody ever tried fighting against Hard Army solo? I can't seem to win no matter what strategy I use, the cheat money gives AI unfair advantage.


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Mizo
post 21 Jan 2018, 12:56
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Well it is definitely possible with a higher cash start, although alot of save and reloads will be involved, it's not easy at all and is quiet challenging.

I was supposed to release an updated version last weekend, but then I had work, and my wife complained that the new Easy AI defends itself too well for casual players to enjoy so am back in the srawing board here.
( Doesn't help that I can only code it in the Weekends due to work)
I can tell you now that China received significant indirectly thanks to the new attack system I set up. They ahould be able to give a nice challenge biggrin.gif

This post has been edited by Mizo: 21 Jan 2018, 13:07


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Alpha Sinister
post 22 Jan 2018, 0:10
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 21 Jan 2018, 18:56) *
Well it is definitely possible with a higher cash start, although alot of save and reloads will be involved, it's not easy at all and is quiet challenging.

I was supposed to release an updated version last weekend, but then I had work, and my wife complained that the new Easy AI defends itself too well for casual players to enjoy so am back in the srawing board here.
( Doesn't help that I can only code it in the Weekends due to work)
I can tell you now that China received significant indirectly thanks to the new attack system I set up. They ahould be able to give a nice challenge biggrin.gif



Thanks for the hard work, can't wait to try the new AI patch happy.gif


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Mizo
post 22 Jan 2018, 4:05
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QUOTE
I'm not even surprised. No matter how strong ECA's defenses are, it can still be breached by artillery. Also, the AI seem to not be doing the defense formations right (AA & mortar in the front, ground defense in the back). With weak offensive units, I'm not sure how ECA could win against other factions without the use of GPs and SWs. But I think it mostly lays at fault with how the AI couldn't use ECA in the right way.


Probably one of the most challenging AIs to script, mostly because of engine limitations I can't get them to work as intended. Precise defensive formations is practically impossible.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 22 Jan 2018, 4:06


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Jakato
post 22 Jan 2018, 12:25
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If the AI sees it has a unfinished building, doesn't it send a dozer to fix it? I have a crazy idea.

Build a hidden building which is made up of the defensive buildings in the arrangement you need. Tell the AI to build it facing the enemy. When the dozer tries to construct the special building, the special building destroys itself and spawns the defensive buildings at 0% construction completion. Maybe the Ai will detect this and build the defense structures.
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re_simeone
post 22 Jan 2018, 13:08
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USA just shits on everyone else. I've accidentally put medium USA with hard Russia and hard China, and USA wiped them out both, MEDIUM USA.
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Mizo
post 22 Jan 2018, 13:39
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QUOTE (Jakato @ 22 Jan 2018, 12:25) *
If the AI sees it has a unfinished building, doesn't it send a dozer to fix it? I have a crazy idea.

Build a hidden building which is made up of the defensive buildings in the arrangement you need. Tell the AI to build it facing the enemy. When the dozer tries to construct the special building, the special building destroys itself and spawns the defensive buildings at 0% construction completion. Maybe the Ai will detect this and build the defense structures.


That's not how it works :/ Especially with ECA.

QUOTE
USA just shits on everyone else. I've accidentally put medium USA with hard Russia and hard China, and USA wiped them out both, MEDIUM USA


To be fair, China's AI is horribly underperforming.

This post has been edited by Mizo: 22 Jan 2018, 13:42


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Jakato
post 22 Jan 2018, 22:30
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 22 Jan 2018, 14:39) *
That's not how it works :/ Especially with ECA.


Can the AI even build rotated buildings?
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Mizo
post 23 Jan 2018, 2:48
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It can but there is no point, since rotations are set by only 1 value that doesn't change regardless of player spawn positions.


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Jakato
post 23 Jan 2018, 17:35
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 23 Jan 2018, 3:48) *
It can but there is no point, since rotations are set by only 1 value that doesn't change regardless of player spawn positions.


Darn it.

QUOTE (Alpha Sinister @ 21 Jan 2018, 9:42) *
I'm not even surprised. No matter how strong ECA's defenses are, it can still be breached by artillery. Also, the AI seem to not be doing the defense formations right (AA & mortar in the front, ground defense in the back).


I'd imagine part of the problem is the tier system. Ground attacks are more likely early on so Gun Turrets and Guard Towers need to protect the first buildings. But now the ground defenses have been selected for the initial defense so they end up inside the base as the AI expands. When the mortar puts etc are available at higher tiers they end up being on the outside of the base because that's where there is space to build. Or at least that's how the AI seems to handle base construction in Generals.
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ZunZero97
post 25 Jan 2018, 1:28
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the ECA AI is so easy to play against, it simply only uses infantry, maybe should do an defence spam on flanks and front.
I must mention the offensive role is so low, it only uses infantry mole minelayers and few leopards gepards, i recommend to use the Grenadier and switching to canister against infantry.
- Use the tigers against artillery and aircraft and spam them and hold them, when is an black bear or other threats near on the main base tigers should to destroy it easily.
- Pioneer planting mines on flank and front and make them to switch the mortar weapon to enemy defences.
- Snipers should be useful too against light vehicles and infantry and stay stealth when is an tank, helicopter near on his position.
And is possible if the AI should use properly the howitzer positions, priority to artillery threats and some light vehicles and infantry and the marksman's laser designator with the long range howitzer.



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Mizo
post 25 Jan 2018, 2:09
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QUOTE
I must mention the offensive role is so low, it only uses infantry mole minelayers and few leopards gepards, i recommend to use the Grenadier and switching to canister against infantry.

I fixed a bug with pandurs not attacking properly so it should be harder to fight off now.
I also improved the tank spam ( Blitzkrieg Persona only).

QUOTE
- Use the tigers against artillery and aircraft and spam them and hold them, when is an black bear or other threats near on the main base tigers should to destroy it easily


I improved tigers priority and added some guard tigers as well.

QUOTE
- Pioneer planting mines on flank and front and make them to switch the mortar weapon to enemy defences.


Pioneer planting mines would crash the game due to it being a deploy function. They already switch to mortars.

QUOTE
- Snipers should be useful too against light vehicles and infantry and stay stealth when is an tank, helicopter near on his position


Not very feasible.

QUOTE
And is possible if the AI should use properly the howitzer positions, priority to artillery threats and some light vehicles and infantry and the marksman's laser designator with the long range howitzer.


Impossible in skirmish.


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rey
post 31 Jan 2018, 17:27
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QUOTE (Mizo @ 21 Jan 2018, 13:56) *
and my wife complained that the new Easy AI defends itself too well for casual players to enjoy so am back in the srawing board here.

send her out grateful Thanks, as she's the Main Mysterious Tester! biggrin.gif
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