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Is this game imbalanced?, Or do i get something wrong?
Megazord
post 9 Jun 2012, 19:52
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Hi.

(First of all, sorry for my English)

Let's start from the beginning. Me and my friends are playing Shockwave for almost 1,5 year by now and we really enjoyed it, but lately some doubts came out - is this game imbalanced?

The most common settings we use during our games is 1vs1 or 2vs2, random, 10.000$.

The first question - what is the best starting cash option? On what settings we should play so we could enjoy the most balanced gameplay? I always thought it is 10.000 but I'm not so sure anymore.

The units are dumb and there's no good way to lead them, so we think that GLA is the most difficult faction to play - except Salvage General, GLA's units are weak, paper-armor and their economics is way to slow to win any game versus, e.g. China, which we think have the most over-powered generals. Why do we think so?

- When playing 10.000, map control is one of the most important thinks to do - China is waaay to good in doing so because of this freakin' bullfrogs. Is there any good counter on them except of sending dozers in chinooks near Oil Derricks? We think that it's totally imbalanced that one 100$ fast-moving unit can be recruited in Command Center and gather at least 2000$ from two Oil Derricks, giving very big economic boost. There is no way that USA or GLA can capture them first.

- USA is too slow. GLA can gather resources pretty fast thanks to their workers and China can send Bullfrogs anywhere, but USA can't do anything until mid-game. How can you counter China's speed?

China. Mainly vanilla China, but Tank and Infantry also add to this point. They're freakin' crazy! Recruiting bullfrogs on the beggining, building internet center right after that, creating A LOT (i mean - A LOT) of units and just spam the oponents. The units are dumb in attack, but that's no holback in this - there is too many of them. Mega-powerful Nuke Cannons doing the best damage, Inferno Cannons wainting behind the army raping everything on the ground... but I say it's nothing. Their units are pretty weak, but it doesn't mean anything - China's economics is completly imbalanced. When attacking oponent, vChina can send all units to certain death and hurt enemy badly, but he will need a lot more time to recover - during the attack, China has so much money, that it can reprocude majority of it's army in no-time. During that it can also spam a little more hack vans.

General Leang and Tao are - I think - the only generals that aren't so strong - their units are fairy expensive.

I don't get this game anymore. At the beggining I thought that we just sucked when playing other generals, but time passed and I still think that China is over-powered. I can't see any way to win with Airforce General, I can't see any way to harm the oponent with Toxin or Demolition, I don't know how to play vGLA, which is completly raped by China, I dunno how you can win with Alexander and defense hers artillery.

What is it that we don't understand?
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wargame10
post 11 Jun 2012, 16:31
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hmm meh i can beat all of them if you have practice enuff

china aint that over powered its depend on the user who played it

tips to dealt those three

1.there's a way to beat air force general not using infantry or laser general use your mind and think a strat to dealt with

2.just spam mixed 1st and 2nd tier units to owned them and always with a support of anti air and artillery units (req. huge amount of supplies)

3.see #2

vGLA vs either vChina or china other special factions
hmm true its hard to dealt with but as i said use your mind and make a strat to deal with them

This post has been edited by wargame: 11 Jun 2012, 16:33


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Megazord
post 11 Jun 2012, 17:06
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QUOTE
1.there's a way to beat air force general not using infantry or laser general use your mind and think a strat to dealt with

Oh wait. Sorry, I didn't write it properly - what I meant is that I don't know how to win when I'm playing Airforce. You guys are saying that he's a good general, but I can't possibly say how you're doing it. His units are extremely expensive and - like any other USA general - he gather resources really slow. It's easy to win with him just using all AA-units and spam them.

How do you control map when playing versus China? They're always first and Oil Derricks are the biggest boost on the beggining.
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wargame10
post 11 Jun 2012, 17:16
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airforce general solution..

req huge sum of resources well spam SDZ (supply drop zone) make sure its well defended

offense attack as i said in # 2

deal with china
that you need to act fast before they reach that oil derick if you caught them while capturing it you know what to do (kill them ofcourse lol) if they capture it? solution kill them then capture it (i know that you cant get that a free $1000 when first captured)

offence? read # 2

make sure your base def is upgraded with camouflage

This post has been edited by wargame: 11 Jun 2012, 17:19


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Megazord
post 11 Jun 2012, 17:23
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QUOTE
that you need to act fast before they reach that oil derick if

How are you supposed to act fast when Bullfrog is recruitable in Command Center and he only need to build barracks (first building he's creating) and accuire an upgrade? With at least 2 Oil Derricks on one map, +2000$ is extremly big boost.

QUOTE
(req. huge amount of supplies)

China ALWAYS got even larger amount of supplies and good China player won't let you have more.
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wargame10
post 11 Jun 2012, 17:29
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yea true thats the problem on the bullfrog (no solution for that) well thats their advantage


true if you using USA what does Supply Drop Zone do? (lol) China? you know them right dat hackers? GLA? BM (black market spam) if you get lvl 3 (make sure max that cash bounty its pretty helpful) (make sure you dont use gen points until you get lvl 3)


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Megazord
post 11 Jun 2012, 18:03
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true if you using USA what does Supply Drop Zone do? (lol) China? you know them right dat hackers? GLA? BM (black market spam) if you get lvl 3

Well, from my observation, hackers are the most efficient way to make money. Right after you build your Internet Center you can slowly fill it with hackers and they're giving you money right away - you don't have to wait so long like with Supply Drop (which is, imo, the worst) and they don't take so much space. I can't think of any way to beat the China's economics, especially vChina which has the cheapest units and can expand really fast. Also, they have the best scouting - outposts and listening outposts. This is a great advantage, because you can prepare agaist practically every possible unit attack.

GLA is the worst in scouting the enemy's base - they don't have a permanent look on your enemy like China does nor the USA's complete map scan nor their little robot drones.
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Alias
post 11 Jun 2012, 23:44
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QUOTE (Megazord @ 10 Jun 2012, 4:52) *
Let's start from the beginning. Me and my friends are playing Shockwave for almost 1,5 year by now and we really enjoyed it, but lately some doubts came out - is this game imbalanced?

The most common settings we use during our games is 1vs1 or 2vs2, random, 10.000$.

The first question - what is the best starting cash option? On what settings we should play so we could enjoy the most balanced gameplay? I always thought it is 10.000 but I'm not so sure anymore.
It does have minor imbalances, but there isn't really anything that puts one faction so far above others. $10000 is the correct setting, yes.

QUOTE (Megazord @ 10 Jun 2012, 4:52) *
- When playing 10.000, map control is one of the most important thinks to do - China is waaay to good in doing so because of this freakin' bullfrogs. Is there any good counter on them except of sending dozers in chinooks near Oil Derricks? We think that it's totally imbalanced that one 100$ fast-moving unit can be recruited in Command Center and gather at least 2000$ from two Oil Derricks, giving very big economic boost. There is no way that USA or GLA can capture them first.

- USA is too slow. GLA can gather resources pretty fast thanks to their workers and China can send Bullfrogs anywhere, but USA can't do anything until mid-game. How can you counter China's speed?

China. Mainly vanilla China, but Tank and Infantry also add to this point. They're freakin' crazy! Recruiting bullfrogs on the beggining, building internet center right after that, creating A LOT (i mean - A LOT) of units and just spam the oponents. The units are dumb in attack, but that's no holback in this - there is too many of them. Mega-powerful Nuke Cannons doing the best damage, Inferno Cannons wainting behind the army raping everything on the ground... but I say it's nothing. Their units are pretty weak, but it doesn't mean anything - China's economics is completly imbalanced. When attacking oponent, vChina can send all units to certain death and hurt enemy badly, but he will need a lot more time to recover - during the attack, China has so much money, that it can reprocude majority of it's army in no-time. During that it can also spam a little more hack vans.

General Leang and Tao are - I think - the only generals that aren't so strong - their units are fairy expensive.

I don't get this game anymore. At the beggining I thought that we just sucked when playing other generals, but time passed and I still think that China is over-powered. I can't see any way to win with Airforce General, I can't see any way to harm the oponent with Toxin or Demolition, I don't know how to play vGLA, which is completly raped by China, I dunno how you can win with Alexander and defense hers artillery.

What is it that we don't understand?
If you're talking about map control, GLA is far better than China at that. China may get the derricks but you'll get all the supplies. Bullfrogs die incredibly fast to infantry for every faction. They may be cheap and fast but they die as fast to infantry as infantry do, and they have no weapon.

In terms of resource gathering, base resources from supplies is pretty much the same rate overall. USA may feel slower because it's large amounts, but the rate of gathering is roughly the same, especially on difficult to reach terrain where USA has a huge advantage in collector speed.

If your opponent has an internet centre before you attack, you're doing something wrong. Especially with GLA - you need to pressure hard and pressure early. Don't be afraid to lose units as they'll pay for themselves in the long run. This is true for every faction, the person who attacks last generally loses.

I can't get too much from this, so if you could provide some replays I could tell you guys what you're doing wrong, otherwise feel free to join us on Hamachi as we're always looking for more players, we'll be able to teach you that way. If you're interested, I'll post the details.

This post has been edited by Alias: 11 Jun 2012, 23:45


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Casojin
post 12 Jun 2012, 2:57
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USA and GLA are micro heavy faction compared to China. However, if you utilize them correctly and successfully, you can beat your opponent with smaller number.

USA strength is intel and airpower (except Armor Gen which is more like China).
GLA strength is speed and persistence (they're very hard to clear out like cockroaches if you play GLA correctly).
China strength is number and durability (which is easier for beginners to play with).

So, you have to practice a lot to play USA and GLA properly.


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Megazord
post 13 Jun 2012, 9:40
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QUOTE
If your opponent has an internet centre before you attack, you're doing something wrong. Especially with GLA - you need to pressure hard and pressure early. Don't be afraid to lose units as they'll pay for themselves in the long run. This is true for every faction, the person who attacks last generally loses.

I can't get too much from this, so if you could provide some replays I could tell you guys what you're doing wrong, otherwise feel free to join us on Hamachi as we're always looking for more players, we'll be able to teach you that way. If you're interested, I'll post the details.

Wow, thanks, that would be great. I'll try post some replays after the weekend, because I don't usually save them. There should be some interesting games coming, I think. I would really appreciated if you could teach me how to play smile.gif

Actually, I think you're right even now - we indeed are playing a little too slow, I think. When I'm playing GLA I try to attack my oponent as fast as I can, but I find that impossible when playing anyone but Salvage General. His units are dealing a lot of damage, have and good armor and are pretty fast. The other general's units are twice weaker that their Salvage counterparts. I can see any way to hit enemy badly with Toxin, Stealth or vGLA. Demolition at least has good motors, but it's not enough I think. I don't get it.
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Casojin
post 13 Jun 2012, 10:59
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The tactic of GLA is to strike where the enemy cannot reach you easily and go away before they can arrive (that's why it's call Hit & Run).

Stay and fight if your unit is a counter to your enemy (for example, Toxin truck fighting Infantry) or when you're in delaying action for something bigger (holding off tank force for your anti-tank force to strike).

Try to control supplies as much as you could while harassing enemy supplies (which would be your focus).

Sneak a worker behind enemy base and put up a tunnel there would be very useful.

Properly used Jarmen Kell is extremely annoying to your human opponent.

To sum it up, use trickery.


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Alias
post 13 Jun 2012, 13:17
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QUOTE (Megazord @ 13 Jun 2012, 18:40) *
Wow, thanks, that would be great. I'll try post some replays after the weekend, because I don't usually save them. There should be some interesting games coming, I think. I would really appreciated if you could teach me how to play smile.gif

Actually, I think you're right even now - we indeed are playing a little too slow, I think. When I'm playing GLA I try to attack my oponent as fast as I can, but I find that impossible when playing anyone but Salvage General. His units are dealing a lot of damage, have and good armor and are pretty fast. The other general's units are twice weaker that their Salvage counterparts. I can see any way to hit enemy badly with Toxin, Stealth or vGLA. Demolition at least has good motors, but it's not enough I think. I don't get it.
Grab Hamachi if you don't have it already – get your friends to get it too. Join the network Handschar, hopefully we're around when you are – it can get a little tricky with timezones.


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