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Suggestions for General Kwai
Darky
post 23 Jan 2014, 18:10
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Launch Rail (Emperor Overlord Upgrade)

Description: After losing many veteran tank platoons at the hands of the enemy's Air Force and the rising threat of hostile gunboats, it appeared that the Gattling Cannon did not have the range to prevent casualties; it could only avenge them. For this reason, General Kwai ordered the production of a new upgrade to the proud Emperor Tank, two launch rails that launch one rocket-powered aircraft each; equipped with downsized versions of the same missiles carried by the MiG fighters. These fighters have limited range, but their two miniature missiles are great against lightly armored aircraft and surface units. In numbers, these missiles can cause smaller firestorms, not unlike the larger ones caused by MiG Fighters and Inferno Cannons, but they require a substantially higher volume of fire (hehe, so punny) to achieve that.

The Emperor Overlord, when upgraded with two parallel launch rails, at 45/135 degrees respectively, can perform repairs and reload operations on these fighters, which are replaced automatically.

Battlemaster Tank Destroyer Upgrade

Description: While the Battlemaster has proven to be formidable at the hands of experienced crew members, the lack of dedicated artillery among their ranks means the unnecessary endangerment of veteran crews against mixed forces involving infantry. A field upgrade to the Battlemaster was issued to alleviate the situation; each individual Battlemaster, at a slight cost increase, may be fitted with additional armor and a much longer and a higher caliber cannon at the cost of losing the turret. The cannon deals more damage and has a slightly longer range, but does not benefit from the Autoloader upgrade. When upgraded, the Battlemaster can switch between Armor Piercing and High Explosive shells, giving it more utility as direct fire artillery, although still with less range than it takes to outrange most stationary defenses.

Tiger Light Tank

Description: The Tiger Light Tank is a fast and agile tank with a variety of uses. Unlike any other tank, it has the ability to capture buildings thanks to its crew members being elite members of the Red Guard recruited from their infantry divisions. It is equipped with a stubby 80mm cannon firing HE shells that deals area of effect damage with about the same range as the Battlemaster. Tiger Light Tanks can be upgraded with Autoloaders just like Battlemasters.

Assault Transport

Description: The Assault Transport is an amphibious vehicle capable of transporting up to 10 Battlemaster tanks at a time. It is expensive, almost as twice as much as the mighty Emperor Tank, but it is armored very well and is equipped with repair stations that repair tanks around itself at a rapid rate. It is also equipped with multiple Speaker Towers.

Capture Building

Description: Capture Building is researched at the Command Center.

Barracks and Internet Center

Description: The Barracks and the Internet Center are removed, Satellite Hack is not available for Kwai.

Hacker Van

Description: After observing how vulnerable his Hackers are out in the open, General Kwai ordered the production of Hacker Vans. The Hacker Vans are home to two Hackers (not actually garrisoned, just in story) who gain money at the same rate as regular hackers, making the Hacker Van have the output of two hackers. The Hacker Van is lightly armored, but it doesn't have to be deployed and it can detect stealth.

Dragon Tank Upgrade

Description: As the Dragon Tank was too lightly armored to keep up with Kwai's armored forces, additional layers of armor were made available as a universal upgrade.

Striker MiG

Description: Instead of the standard payload of two Napalm missiles, General Kwai's Striker MiGs are equipped with two Gattling Cannons and miniaturized Battlemaster cannons, one per each wing, Striker MiGs perform lethal strafing attacks at any kind of ground unit at the expense of some speed and the ability to attack air targets.

Support Helix

Description: Instead of the carrying space, the Support Helix is outfitted with a variety of tools and a crew to operate them to support General Kwai's tank battalions. The Support Helix is capable of providing propaganda and ECM services, redirecting most missiles aimed at friendly units under it to the air, but not missiles that are aimed at itself. The Support Helix also has field upgrades, and it can pick between additional armor with a couple of door machine guns and a pair of long range anti-ship torpedoes. It is unarmed when not upgraded, and it can carry a single vehicle of any kind under it, making it ideal for tank assaults over the sea and rough terrain.

Black Lotus

Description: Black Lotus units, when under the command of General Kwai, are given low profile motorcycles, giving them much greater speed than their counterparts on foot. They're just as effective as regular Black Lotus units otherwise.

Dragon's Descent

Description: A squadron of Dragon Tanks are paradropped, depending on the level of the General's Power.



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Zeke
post 24 Jan 2014, 17:51
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From n5p29:

QUOTE
First of all things, sorry, as in the guidelines, no suggestions for subfactions now. but for your effort in these, let's just take a read.

Launch Rail (Emperor Overlord Upgrade)

Description: After losing many veteran tank platoons at the hands of the enemy's Air Force and the rising threat of hostile gunboats, it appeared that the Gattling Cannon did not have the range to prevent casualties; it could only avenge them. For this reason, General Kwai ordered the production of a new upgrade to the proud Emperor Tank, two launch rails that launch one rocket-powered aircraft each; equipped with downsized versions of the same missiles carried by the MiG fighters. These fighters have limited range, but their two miniature missiles are great against lightly armored aircraft and surface units. In numbers, these missiles can cause smaller firestorms, not unlike the larger ones caused by MiG Fighters and Inferno Cannons, but they require a substantially higher volume of fire (hehe, so punny) to achieve that.

The Emperor Overlord, when upgraded with two parallel launch rails, at 45/135 degrees respectively, can perform repairs and reload operations on these fighters, which are replaced automatically.

So it's some sort of land carrier? I guess not then.


Battlemaster Tank Destroyer Upgrade

Description: While the Battlemaster has proven to be formidable at the hands of experienced crew members, the lack of dedicated artillery among their ranks means the unnecessary endangerment of veteran crews against mixed forces involving infantry. A field upgrade to the Battlemaster was issued to alleviate the situation; each individual Battlemaster, at a slight cost increase, may be fitted with additional armor and a much longer and a higher caliber cannon at the cost of losing the turret. The cannon deals more damage and has a slightly longer range, but does not benefit from the Autoloader upgrade. When upgraded, the Battlemaster can switch between Armor Piercing and High Explosive shells, giving it more utility as direct fire artillery, although still with less range than it takes to outrange most stationary defenses.

China will get a tank destroyer unit inferno cannon... j/k


Tiger Light Tank

Description: The Tiger Light Tank is a fast and agile tank with a variety of uses. Unlike any other tank, it has the ability to capture buildings thanks to its crew members being elite members of the Red Guard recruited from their infantry divisions. It is equipped with a stubby 80mm cannon firing HE shells that deals area of effect damage with about the same range as the Battlemaster. Tiger Light Tanks can be upgraded with Autoloaders just like Battlemasters.

A light AT vehicle already planned for china


Assault Transport

Description: The Assault Transport is an amphibious vehicle capable of transporting up to 10 Battlemaster tanks at a time. It is expensive, almost as twice as much as the mighty Emperor Tank, but it is armored very well and is equipped with repair stations that repair tanks around itself at a rapid rate. It is also equipped with multiple Speaker Towers.

Check the latest update. the new transport filled the niche already.


Capture Building

Description: Capture Building is researched at the Command Center.

Nope


Barracks and Internet Center

Description: The Barracks and the Internet Center are removed, Satellite Hack is not available for Kwai.

Nope


Hacker Van

Description: After observing how vulnerable his Hackers are out in the open, General Kwai ordered the production of Hacker Vans. The Hacker Vans are home to two Hackers (not actually garrisoned, just in story) who gain money at the same rate as regular hackers, making the Hacker Van have the output of two hackers. The Hacker Van is lightly armored, but it doesn't have to be deployed and it can detect stealth.

Internet center will no longer have build limit, so go crazy building them netcafes so they can have a LoL tourney. tongue.gif


Dragon Tank Upgrade

Description: As the Dragon Tank was too lightly armored to keep up with Kwai's armored forces, additional layers of armor were made available as a universal upgrade.

They say flames can purify!


Striker MiG

Description: Instead of the standard payload of two Napalm missiles, General Kwai's Striker MiGs are equipped with two Gattling Cannons and miniaturized Battlemaster cannons, one per each wing, Striker MiGs perform lethal strafing attacks at any kind of ground unit at the expense of some speed and the ability to attack air targets.

A bomber craft planned already for china.


Support Helix

Description: Instead of the carrying space, the Support Helix is outfitted with a variety of tools and a crew to operate them to support General Kwai's tank battalions. The Support Helix is capable of providing propaganda and ECM services, redirecting most missiles aimed at friendly units under it to the air, but not missiles that are aimed at itself. The Support Helix also has field upgrades, and it can pick between additional armor with a couple of door machine guns and a pair of long range anti-ship torpedoes. It is unarmed when not upgraded, and it can carry a single vehicle of any kind under it, making it ideal for tank assaults over the sea and rough terrain.

Why? they want more rooms for weapons!


Black Lotus

Description: Black Lotus units, when under the command of General Kwai, are given low profile motorcycles, giving them much greater speed than their counterparts on foot. They're just as effective as regular Black Lotus units otherwise.

Heroes will be changed a lot, so for now no.


Dragon's Descent

Description: A squadron of Dragon Tanks are paradropped, depending on the level of the General's Power.

Another 3-level tank drop power? no thanks


tl;dr: since we're currently focused on the first release that only has vanilla factions, we havent really thoughed about the subfactions right now. But to make things clear, in tidal wars the subfactions are not that farfetched from their vanilla factions and no longer have crippling over-specialization. And because in this mod ZH events never happened, stuffs from ZH would go into massive overhaul or may not even return. More about these will be explained when the time comes.


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Darky
post 24 Jan 2014, 22:08
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I see, I'll try to make my other suggestions directed at vanilla factions! Though what do you think about the Light Tank capturing buildings?

Also the Striker MiG isn't a bomber, it is meant to be effective against anything on the ground BUT buildings and it has a range.

That and the Tiger Light Tank isn't actually AT, it is meant to attack infantry and light vehicles with a short cannon firing high explosive shells; not meant to pierce armor.

This post has been edited by DarkyPwnz: 25 Jan 2014, 21:24
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V.Metalic
post 3 Feb 2014, 13:33
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QUOTE (DarkyPwnz @ 24 Jan 2014, 22:08) *
I see, I'll try to make my other suggestions directed at vanilla factions! Though what do you think about the Light Tank capturing buildings?

Also the Striker MiG isn't a bomber, it is meant to be effective against anything on the ground BUT buildings and it has a range.

That and the Tiger Light Tank isn't actually AT, it is meant to attack infantry and light vehicles with a short cannon firing high explosive shells; not meant to pierce armor.

Striker MiG is, to put it honestly, absolute nonsense. Mounting a tank cannon on a plane that will aim forward would require to have recoilless mechanics, otherwise with the first shot the opposing forces will tear the plane to pieces. Let alone TWO cannons. The only way how to mount a tank cannons or howitzers is by putting them into cargo planes and aim to the side, aka AC-130 Spectre/Spooky II. Making a ground attack plane with a cannon would require the weapon's redesign and plane's innovations to accommodate it. More like making a plane around the cannon than opposite. Like n5 said, China has planned a bomber unit, and subfactions arent much thought at the moment. If some kind of GAP will be given to Kwai, who knows.


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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Darky
post 3 Feb 2014, 15:55
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QUOTE (V.Metalic @ 3 Feb 2014, 14:33) *
Striker MiG is, to put it honestly, absolute nonsense. Mounting a tank cannon on a plane that will aim forward would require to have recoilless mechanics, otherwise with the first shot the opposing forces will tear the plane to pieces. Let alone TWO cannons. The only way how to mount a tank cannons or howitzers is by putting them into cargo planes and aim to the side, aka AC-130 Spectre/Spooky II. Making a ground attack plane with a cannon would require the weapon's redesign and plane's innovations to accommodate it. More like making a plane around the cannon than opposite. Like n5 said, China has planned a bomber unit, and subfactions arent much thought at the moment. If some kind of GAP will be given to Kwai, who knows.


I did say miniaturized, I was just putting emphasis on how it would have a good rate of fire and medium anti-tank damage. So this unit can exist without making compromises with plausibility.
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V.Metalic
post 3 Feb 2014, 20:13
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QUOTE (DarkyPwnz @ 3 Feb 2014, 15:55) *
I did say miniaturized, I was just putting emphasis on how it would have a good rate of fire and medium anti-tank damage. So this unit can exist without making compromises with plausibility.

In theory... maybe... Its not a priority at the moment.

And for the light tank, while its not bad, the modern doctrines dont approves of low-velocity high-explosive weaponry much. And while China may not seem that advanced, they wouldnt spend money on producing a light tank with short HE cannon but rather on Dragon Tank, which can do the work too, and better. If we would add something like Tiger, it would need some consideration, as its only role which isnt taken would be "armored recon" with its higher speed. And capturing buildings... its kind of unfair when compared to all others. Because when you are capturing oil derricks and all, you are mainly using the basic infantry, probably carried by some light vehicle (Humvee, Technical). Fighting over them would be mostly done by machine guns and rifles. And now you will send in a TANK with HE gun, and whoa-la! The balance will be off. To counter these, you will have to send in beside the basic infantry also AT, which would either require you to send more guys and vehicles, or replace some rifles with rockets (infantry), and even than it would be quite tough. If they would be able to transport infantry (one or two), maybe it would be better, but still it would give Kwai more advantage at this... Maybe a light amphibious tank... it would need lot of consideration.

Battlemaster TD... if it wouldnt be replacement of Inferno Cannon in its role...


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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Karpet
post 4 Apr 2014, 3:12
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Mini Battlemaster cannons on the Striker... Sounds like overcompensation to me.
I think dual 40mm autocannons would work much better. The Ilyushin Il-2 could handle 23mm in the early 40s, so why not 40mm for the Chinese? Plus, most vehicles have weaksauce top armor and sometimes their munitions exposed (looking at you, Scud) so it would make sense from a realistic point of view.
Not saying this will get added (it will not, considering there's already a bomber planned), just putting a little sense into your design.


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V.Metalic
post 4 Apr 2014, 16:10
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20mm was back then quite a common thing, as it was like a "very heavy machine gun", or "light autocannon". It can be easily mounted as it was not that large. But when you double this, you will have to mount it on the fuselage, or in, to have this working. It would be, in theory, possible, but it will have to incorporate state of the art tech to make it work.


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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Karpet
post 4 Apr 2014, 19:37
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If the Chinese military was to mount dual 20mm cannons, how would that fare against ZH-era armor? I'm not really sure how well it would work.

This post has been edited by Karpet: 4 Apr 2014, 19:38


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Kalga
post 4 Apr 2014, 21:24
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QUOTE (V.Metalic @ 4 Apr 2014, 11:10) *
20mm was back then quite a common thing, as it was like a "very heavy machine gun", or "light autocannon". It can be easily mounted as it was not that large. But when you double this, you will have to mount it on the fuselage, or in, to have this working. It would be, in theory, possible, but it will have to incorporate state of the art tech to make it work.



QUOTE (Karpet @ 4 Apr 2014, 14:37) *
If the Chinese military was to mount dual 20mm cannons, how would that fare against ZH-era armor? I'm not really sure how well it would work.


... and let's remember that most Generals mods do not strive for realism, so let's not judge ideas base on their realism merits.

... now as for the actual idea. I don't know...


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Karpet
post 4 Apr 2014, 22:43
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Ah, well. If I ever make a mod, I guess I'll include that (because why the hell not).


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V.Metalic
post 5 Apr 2014, 11:00
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Thats a good idea smile.gif To include it if you will be making mod)


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It is so true that its funny and sad at the same time.
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