Ranking up, is it just me urr is this true? Options

[Zion]

i feel like you rank up really fast, maybe a bit too fast? Kill some early harrasment and ur already rank 3. Kinda promotes turtling... And sitting out till gps win the game kinda deal.. You cant sacrifice units at all.. Honesty makes the game more annoying.. In my opinion. Especially playing against russia's superior gps.
Maybe we should increase the amount of points to reach the ranks?

I know everyone hates when i mention zero hour.. But honestly i like the way the gameplay is more unit oriented than gp oriented.

Let me know your thoughts

And i think its an easy fix too, since programming this should be as easy as changing some numbers.. But maybe im wrong.. Ether way tho.

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

That is something ive seen. When playing as USA or ECA epseically. It just feels like i have to work twise as hard to get to rank 3 where as say my russian or chinese opponent to get the same result.

[Skitt]

does seem like russia ranks up too fast

[M01]

shouldn't USA be the one faster to rank up than the other factions (this is after Advanced training upgrade)

[XAttus]

shouldn't USA be the one faster to rank up than the other factions (this is after Advanced training upgrade)

That upgrade has nothing to do with GP experience. It only affects the XP that your units earn by killing enemy stuff. The XP you have to earn to get GPs is fixed and it is the same for every faction.

Some factions kill stuff easier than others so what you guys mention is true but it's not necessairly a bad thing. Some of Russia's GPs are also similar to the "noob tube" (I hope you get the reference) namely the reinforcement drops - you get tons of units for zero cash investment and while they can be powerful, I don't think that on higher levels they are used that often simply because it's really easy to get rid of them and other less appealing GPs actually provide much greater benefit (satellite for example). I also think that the current values are fine and no changes are necessary.

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Some of Russia's GPs are also similar to the "noob tube" (I hope you get the reference) namely the reinforcement drops - you get tons of units for zero cash investment and while they can be powerful, I don't think that on higher levels they are used that often simply because it's really easy to get rid of them and other less appealing GPs actually provide much greater benefit (satellite for example). I also think that the current values are fine and no changes are necessary.

eh. I'd call the rank 3 Backfire strike the real noob tube

[XAttus]

R3 backfire is overkill most of the time. In most of my games vs Russia I see almost everyone going for full reinforcement GP set and ye the backfires can hurt too but it's much more annoying (for me) to fight the constant stream of dropped units that will come regardless of how much I cripple my opponent's income.

[Junkie_360]

Well IMO all of the GPs can be annoying in their own way

But back to topic, I think it has more to do with the overall setting and modus operandi of the factions: Russians and Chinese advance fast /kill fast and get more GPexp and ECA has problems launching an early attack on the same scale as Russians, therefore they appear slower.
In the end it depends on the player and how he uses his/her factions assets.

[Zion]

Russia ranks up fast because their units have better fire power than any other faction, so they shred units in combat. That is if you let them... But sometimes you have no choice... (small maps) "MY" fix to that would be lowering the XP for units that aren't russian, and make russian units give away a higher reward.. But this wont even be considered..

I think ROTR's gameplay style is unique vs original ZH, it's better in my opinion. Games tend to last longer, and you have to tech up to win.. unless u think of a good rush. So I think Ranking Up should be slightly harder. I'm not talking about doubling everything that's too much.. more like 10-20% added xp points to rank up. This will make the game a bit more smooth. Right now I feel like you simply can't loose any units .. a few failed attacks.. if you don't take the win.. you just gave the opponent rank 5.. and he airdrops behind your base that you can't counter, since all your efforts were spent on attacking.

[M.P]

Off topic Question: What's your problem with Russia, Zion?

[Mizo]

The GP XP System is fine. I do feel that some of the US and ECA units give more XP than others. Considering that one game I played vs MP, where he only killed a few forces ( like 3 jags, 2 leopard and a warhound) along with dogs that got him to rank 3 while I was still at rank 1 being like wtf....

[M.P]

In many matches I've played, vs GLA specially, The GLA dude ranks up way TOOOOOOO fast, Dunno why, I'm still rank 3 and I see an anthrax bomb is coming

You need 800 XP for rank 2, 1500 for rank 3, 2500 for Rank 4 and 5000 for rank 5.

These are the amount of XP granted by killing these units (Common units):

Arm Suppliers: Gives you 100 at all levels

BMP: 50 50 100 150

Buratino: 50 50 100 150

Golem: 150 150 250 500

Grumble: 100 100 250 400

Kodiak: 100 100 200 400 - Kodiak gives you 100 XP, Isn't that high enough for a MBT?????

MSTA: 50 50 100 150

MTP: 50 at all levels

Sentinel: 200 200 400 600 - Pretty High

Supply Truck: 30 30 50 100

Tesla Tank: 50 50 100 150

TOPOL: 150 at all levels

Tunguska: 50 50 100 150

As you can see, these stats are not low and are not high.

From what I understood in your last post, you want them to be like this:

Arm Suppliers: Gives you 1000 at all levels

BMP: 500 500 1000 1500

Buratino: 500 500 1000 1500

Golem: 1500 1500 2500 5000

Grumble: 1000 1000 2500 4000

Kodiak: 1000 1000 2000 4000

MSTA: 500 500 1000 1500

MTP: 500 at all levels

Sentinel: 2000 2000 4000 6000

Supply Truck: 300 300 500 1000

Tesla Tank: 500 500 1000 1500

TOPOL: 1500 at all levels

Tunguska: 500 500 1000 1500

This post has been edited by M.P: 21 Sep 2015, 17:28

[The_Hunter]

During the development of 1.85 every single unit and structure in the game was tweaked to ensure they have the proper values of experience values based on their combat value.

[X1Destroy]

Rather than tweaking unit exp, I think increasing the amount of time to get from rank 1 to 5 would be better.

800/rank 2, 2500/rank 3, 4000/rank 4 and 8000/rank 5, maybe?

Honestly, you don't need to get last GPs of the chart as soon as possible if you got the advantage early. It's overkill.

ECA protocol could be changed to rank 3 if this is ever applied, for obvious reasons.

With this amount of time, Rank 5 Russian nuke silo won't be instant death for ECA anymore. You have the time and resources to strike back before it happen, which is acceptable cause your base is pretty much impenetrable by now and Russia need the tools to break it.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 21 Sep 2015, 21:22

[M.P]

ECA protocol could be changed to rank 3 if this is ever applied, for obvious reasons.

DON'T EVEN THINK ABOUT IT! I don't want Defenses with infinite Shtora in mid game

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Honestly, USA relies on leaflets and Carpet bombing to survive so delaying the XP would fuck them over in more situations than is necessary.
As Zion said at the start, it does feel that certain factions rank up faster, but after the hunters comment I take it alot of thought has gone into that as to not be broken.
AS for ECA protocols at rank 3,

If you need want to make it a meaningful change make them available at rank 5, but not take a GP

This post has been edited by RikerZZZ: 22 Sep 2015, 0:53

[The_Hunter]

They used to be rank 3 during initial development. (like way back in 2012)

Then we relised it would be very broken and didn't want to nerf them and settled putting them on rank 5.

[Mizo]

Would it be broken if Protocols didn't require a GP but still locked till R5/?

[(USA)Bruce]

Would it be broken if Protocols didn't require a GP but still locked till R5/?

That would come up with two things:

-What do we put to replace it with?
Inb4 Elite Fenneks with Elite commandos drop with burton like C4 charges

-If we dont replace it with anything are you sure you want every protocall stage ECA player to have ONE MORE gp?

Both of thoose are tough questions to answer

[Zion]

You rank up faster when you are on the defensive (that is if you survive).. With the exception of losing too many buildings

USA getting screwed over? That doesnt even make sense.. Its not like usa is going to rank up any slower than other factions if we raise xp level reach. This honestly doesnt affect any faction except ECA.. But very slightly.. Since it delays your protocol.. But ECA technically can rank up faster if they are defending, so it balances that out.. im not saying lets doube the ranking .. I say increase each rank by 10-20 percent.. My concern is how easy it is to rank up, and losing an early atrack means giving away rank 3.. And in rotr rank 3 is game changing already.. Except for china ofcourse.. Cuz gps are not that big of a deal. The only op gp is the napalm strike.. Which got nerfed..

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

USA getting screwed over? That doesnt even make sense.. Its not like usa is going to rank up any slower than other factions if we raise xp level reach.

I was talking about the suggestion to increase how much XP you needed to level up. And yes, it fucks over USA. The carpet bombing + leaflet combo is 100% nessecary to stave off most big blobs in the midgame. If that is delayed by people simply taking longer to get rank 3 it makes it way harder for any us player to hold than it already is.

[X1Destroy]

IMO having a faction that have to absolutely depends on early destructive GP strikes to survive till it can unleash its best arsenals is a design flaw rather than being a unique feature.

Why would rank 3 specops drop and emergency repair be there anyway if everyone have to pick the bomb first or they wouldn't last for long?

3vs3 games? Most people wouldn't bother with that cause it's SAGE.

This post has been edited by X1Destroy: 22 Sep 2015, 10:06

[LayZboy]

That would come up with two things:

-What do we put to replace it with?

Just some random ideas:

R5:
Secondary supply lines.
Resets the airfields cooldown for calling in battlegroups. Has a secondary effect of increasing production in the war factory by 10% (so things are 10% faster), but this goes away if a battlegroup is called in within 30 seconds of activating.
Lasts 30 seconds, cooldown is 5 minutes.

Mobile battlegroup
Allows you to spawn a battle group anywhere, but the plane must travel from the side of the map your airfield is closest too. Has light armour, similar to the mine layer helicopter. Speed is between MLH and american supply planes.
Cooldown is 4 minutes

R3:
Emergency Power Unit
Spawns an emergency structure that provides 100 power. Lasts 15 seconds and explodes on time run out, with an explosion footprint the size of the solar reactor structure. Cooldown is 5 minutes

Reactive Defense Deployment.
Spawns a set of defenses in a line, with the order being Gun turret Watch tower Gun turret. They last 1 minute or until they are destroyed. They have an option to pay the normal amount of money to make them permanent.

[Zion]

I was talking about the suggestion to increase how much XP you needed to level up. And yes, it fucks over USA. The carpet bombing + leaflet combo is 100% nessecary to stave off most big blobs in the midgame. If that is delayed by people simply taking longer to get rank 3 it makes it way harder for any us player to hold than it already is.

The carpet bombing + leaflet combo is 100% nessecary

ummm.. I sure hope not.. cuz thats a major balance issue.. you shouldn't 100% have to choose those GPs to win.. I don't choose any of those actually, (when I used to play USA) and I won games.. Rik from playing with you multiple times.. you like to turtle USA.. and turtlers will always have to face overwhelming attacks because you just sit there and defend.. what do you expect to happen? actually Bruce plays some mean early harassment with USA. He doesn't 100% use leaf + carpet..

I honestly can't support what you are saying sorry.. I think USA is a very powerful faction.. the only thing that's hard is GLA's early quad Rush vs USA.. but I remember Bruce countered it when I played that against him. He spammed Guardian drones and some how micro-ed them to kill off my quads

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

ummm.. I sure hope not.. cuz thats a major balance issue.. you shouldn't 100% have to choose those GPs to win.. I don't choose any of those actually, (when I used to play USA) and I won games.. Rik from playing with you multiple times.. you like to turtle USA.. and turtlers will always have to face overwhelming attacks because you just sit there and defend.. what do you expect to happen? actually Bruce plays some mean early harassment with USA. He doesn't 100% use leaf + carpet..

I'm talking super try hard metas here mate. You need the leaflets and carpet bombing combo to deal splash damage and control armies in the mid-game.
And I don't turtle. Not in the actual sense of the word anyway. I'm not going to attack if i know I'm gonna lose the battle and feed you GP's. What you have seen with me just using Air units to pick apart your force is not in any sense of the word turtling.
As for Bruce, I'm not gonna speak for him, but I can assume he does when hes playing 100% seriously.

I honestly can't support what you are saying sorry.. I think USA is a very powerful faction.. the only thing that's hard is GLA's early quad Rush vs USA.. but I remember Bruce countered it when I played that against him. He spammed Guardian drones and some how micro-ed them to kill off my quads

Doesnt everybody know how to do that now? They are the counter unit.