More Suggestions, General!, Time to wear some consideration underwear! Options

[Darky]

Don't look at the jokes directly, it will hurt your eyes!

This time I have some for the USA:

Tomahawk Overwatch Mode

Description: An advanced on-board computer allows Tomahawk missiles to be fired over a selected area to linger until an enemy unit comes in the area, triggering the Tomahawk's descent upon the target.

Scout Drone and Hellfire Drone Stealth Upgrade

Description: The Scout Drone and the Hellfire Drone are stealthed when not firing.

Paladin Tank Minigun

Description: After purchased as an upgrade, Paladin Tanks are equipped with a remote controlled minigun that fires as fast as Chinese Gattling weapons but with less damage and inability to engage air targets.

Raptor Autocannon

Description: After purchased as an upgrade, Raptors are equipped with Autocannons on top of their regular loadout, cutting through helicopters and most fixed wing aircraft much more easily. Cannot attack ground targets with the autocannon.

Missile Defender Top-Down Fire

Description: After purchased as an upgrade, Missile Defenders can toggle between direct fire and top-down fire modes. When in the latter, time to target is increased and the laser lock ability is disabled, in return dealing slightly higher damage as a result of hitting the weaker top armor and having terrain ignored when acquiring targets.

Laser Guided Bomb Upgrade

Description: Replaces the Stealth Fighter's missiles with a couple of heavily damaging Laser Guided Bombs that track their target.

Battleship Modernization

Description: After purchased as an upgrade, in addition to their existing loadout, equips Battleships with long range anti-ship Tomahawk missiles and CIWS systems that can shoot missiles, aircraft and cannon shells down.

Destroyer Railguns

Description: Upgrades Destroyers with naval railguns, increasing their range and damage, also making the shells fly much faster.

Ranger Grenade Launchers

Description: Rangers begin with Grenade Launchers on their rifles, that can be fired manually.

Drone Operator

Description: A new infantry unit, the Drone Operator is equipped with no weapon of her own, but with a control console to command a single drone, capable of giving it the following tasks:
Scout: The drone scouts the target area, while remaining stealthed.
Attack: The drone fires its missiles at the target and returns to the drone operator.
Guard: The drone flies over the target area and attacks any hostiles with its missiles.

Ranger Designated Marksman Upgrade

Description: At a higher tech level, individual Rangers can be upgraded with the Designated Marksman upgrade, taking away their Capture Building ability and their grenade launchers while giving them a semi-automatic long range rifle that deals considerably more damage. The upgraded Ranger still has much shorter range and much less damage than the Pathfinder, but can fire considerably quicker.

Microwave Tank Turret Upgrade

Description: An expensive and high-tier upgrade, this upgrade retrofits Microwave Tanks with experimental turrets that allow them to attack targets without having to face them and to attack air targets, igniting their fuel and destroying them.

Fire Base Guided Munitions

Description: Munitions fired by the Fire Base, after this upgrade, track their target and deal a lot more damage to vehicles.

Precision Training

Description: After receiving this upgrade, US infantrymen aim much better at vulnerable spots on hostile vehicles such as view ports and tracks, disabling them with sustained fire. (basically, little bit of EMP with every hit, or every burst for the ranger, including abilities like the laser lock and the grenade launcher)

Ambulance Deployment Ability

Description: Ambulances can deploy into small firebases, healing infantry in a wide area around them while being equipped with a heavy machine gun with its user when deployed. Not an upgrade.

Spooky Assault Gunship

Description: Equipped with some on-board unguided HE Rocket launchers and howitzers, the Spooky Assault Gunship can paradrop 15 infantry units over the target area and provide them with fire support before returning to resupply. Heavily armored fixed-wing aircraft. Infantry enter while the gunship is still at the airfield.

Tomahawk Cruise Mode

Description: Any kind of Tomahawk missile can be fired at twice the normal range; in return of having half the speed while still keeping the ability to track the target. This is not a toggle-able mode, targets within range of the High Speed mode will be fired at with High Speed Tomahawks, while targets outside that range will be fired at with Cruise Mode Tomahawks. Also applies to the Tomahawk Overwatch mode.

Particle Burst Cannon

Description: These small but expensive facilities can be deployed in numbers, firing a short burst of Particle beams at the target location, similar to the Particle Cannon but much weaker. Ammunition must be purchased for each strike, and the number of available strikes is displayed at the sidebar. The Particle Burst Cannon is a compact high-tier structure, designed to be used against heavy ships and unit formations. Not strong against buildings. Has a larger area of effect and damage per second than the Particle Cannon, but the shot is brief. Reveals itself on the radar. Requires an active Particle Cannon to be built. (does not require Network Command upgrade)

Particle Cannon Tweak

Description: The Particle Cannon's damage per second is halved while its duration is doubled. The beam is also made faster, making it more effective as a tactical unit killer and less effective as a base destroyer because of reduced damage per second.

Patriot Interceptor Turret

Description: Used as ballistic missile defense, the Patriot Interceptor Turret uses purchased ammunition to destroy incoming cruise and ballistic missiles in one hit. Can also attack General's Promotions units, but does not guarantee a kill in a single hit. Can carry up to 20 missiles. Missiles are purchased in pairs. Has a long range. Can also intercept slow artillery shells.

Ranger Machine Gunner Upgrade

Description: This field upgrade turns the upgraded Ranger into a machine gunner, taking away his grenade launcher and Capture Building ability in return for dealing larger amounts of damage with a higher rate of fire and slightly longer range. Halves the fire rate of infantry under his attack.

Paladin Enhanced Laser Upgrade

Description: The point defense laser on the Paladin is upgraded to be capable of shooting shells down, and has a longer range.

Cruiser

Description: The middle between the Destroyer and the Battleship, Cruisers are equipped with anti-air missiles and machine guns while they deal with surface threats using anti-ship missiles and close-range high fire rate cannons. Cruisers can also deploy countermeasures manually to counter missiles and can perform self repairs, though they're disabled until they're fully repaired. Cruisers also have Tomahawk missiles to attack land targets, but they must be purchased individually. These special Tomahawk missiles carry much larger warheads and can travel longer distances, but they cannot be put in High Speed mode and they can still be shot down. (So not a Tomahawk in any way but the looks)

Cruiser Particle Burst Cannon Upgrade

Description: The anti-ground Tomahawk missiles are replaced with the Particle Burst Cannon, and the Cruiser can fire it anywhere on the map. Researched at the Particle Cannon with Network Command at a high price.

Sea Patriot

Description: Sea Patriots are modular Patriot Missile Launchers on pontoons that can be deployed by Fixers at a price. They can be individually upgraded with torpedo launchers in addition to the missiles.


[b]Pathfinder Focus Shot

Description: The Pathfinder fully concentrates and steadies his rifle, performing a shot at twice his normal range. Has a cooldown.

Pathfinder Target Marking

Description: The Pathfinder marks a location when in range, and calls down an off-map strike of three Tomahawk missiles. Has a cooldown. (He's a level 3 GP unit for crying out loud!)

Particle Cannon Network Interception

Description: The expensive and time consuming Particle Cannon Network Interception must be researched at the Particle Cannon after its Network Command upgrade. Once sufficient time and resources are devoted to it, the general is given the ability to shoot down any selected aircraft, including support power aircraft in one hit. This ability has a recharge time.

Particle Cannon Network Command

Description: An expensive and time consuming upgrade, this upgrade turns the Particle Cannon it is researched on into one of the command hubs for the entire US Particle Cannon Satellite Network. This unlocks a variety of upgrades, increases the cannon's durability, makes it immune to capture, slightly changes its appearance and reduces the cooldown on the upgraded Particle Cannon to three minutes. Only one active Particle Cannon at a time can be upgraded with Network Command.

Burton's Designator

Description: Colonel Burton can designate targets for off-map Particle Burst Cannon strikes. Researched at the Particle Cannon with the Network Command upgrade.

Missile Shield

Description: A sophisticated piece of technology, once researched at the Particle Cannon upgraded with Network Command with a lot of resources and time, gives the player the ability to designate an area, at which every single hostile missile and shell (including tank shells) will be shot down by brief low energy Particle Beams for about 30 seconds. Has a cooldown.

Battleship Shell Guidance

Description: Once upgraded, the shells fired by the Battleship gain the guidance ability, tracking the vehicles and ships they're fired at.

This post has been edited by DarkyPwnz: 25 Jan 2014, 1:23

[V.Metalic]

The comparison is that if Guardian with Ranger (who would give it an minigun), it would be easily replaced by one or two Humvees full of Rangers, or one full of Pathfinders. It would do the work much better. And Paladin can be considered the main hitter, and I would personally use just Crusaders and Paladins than adding to it third tank which is pretty much something in between.

The versatility is certainly USA thing, but you are stretching it too far. The Cruiser is the example. The countermeasures and AA is already ting of Aegis, which is "cruiser", so adding another thing is plainly redundant. The Battleship is meant to be artillery unit and "heavy hitter" on the seas. The guns will, as n5 hinted, have something that will make them capable to engage ships better than it would seem. And if these machine guns were that weak, why to add them at all?

I am not sure about the Particle Burst Cannon, so i wont comment its possibility or impossibility.

[Darky]

The comparison is that if Guardian with Ranger (who would give it an minigun), it would be easily replaced by one or two Humvees full of Rangers, or one full of Pathfinders. It would do the work much better. And Paladin can be considered the main hitter, and I would personally use just Crusaders and Paladins than adding to it third tank which is pretty much something in between.

The versatility is certainly USA thing, but you are stretching it too far. The Cruiser is the example. The countermeasures and AA is already ting of Aegis, which is "cruiser", so adding another thing is plainly redundant. The Battleship is meant to be artillery unit and "heavy hitter" on the seas. The guns will, as n5 hinted, have something that will make them capable to engage ships better than it would seem. And if these machine guns were that weak, why to add them at all?

I am not sure about the Particle Burst Cannon, so i wont comment its possibility or impossibility.

Because it's the mindset! Who's to say that a Guardian with Ranger wouldn't get a Grenade Launcher turret that can alternate between HE and Flashbang rounds? Or a Flag autocannon that captures buildings from a distance! () Remember, it can be as interesting as you can make it.

Well if you have your minds set on the battleship, that's fine. The Cruiser was explained above, and I'm not quite sure how I can elaborate on that. It can still have the repairs, countermeasures and the not-very-powerful anti-ship missiles. An entirely different ship could have Tomahawk etc.

About the PBC, what do you need to know to be sure about it?

[Zeke]

Because it's the mindset! Who's to say that a Guardian with Ranger wouldn't get a Grenade Launcher turret that can alternate between HE and Flashbang rounds? Or a Flag autocannon that captures buildings from a distance!

SAGE does. You have to understand that we are working with a really old and limited engine. This "mindset" that you spek off is not due to lack of an imagination as you seem to be implying, but it's the result of experience gathered after learning the limitations of the engine. I admit that a lot of your ideas would be cool, but they are either uncodeable, or would be too micro intensive for an rta game like ZH which focuses more on large armies than individual tacticool units with a million abilities. I hate to sound mean, but I absolutely hate it when people are like "Y NO-ONE THINK OF THIS REALLY COOL IDEA, ALL DEVS HAVE NO IMAGINATION LOL!" while obviously knowing nothing about the limitations of SAGE or how to mod ZH. I cannot begin to tell you how annoying it is to see suggestions with virtually no considerations for engine limitations. ZH modding has been around for a long time, chances are if you have a cool idea that no-one seems to be doing it's probably it can't be done, Jets can't fire a specific number of missiles per target, aircraft carrier type units are not possible, objects like the overlord's gattling cannon doesn't have a commanset so it can't switch weapons via manual weapon select, you cannot add to or reduce the timer of a superweapon via upgrades, you cannot invent new buttons to do new commands that aren't in the official game, etc. etc.

tl;dr Before you start thinking about how cool your ideas are and how unoriginal the devs are for not thinking of it, try to find out if your suggestion is even remotely possible, Otherwise no-one is going to take you seriously.

[Darky]

SAGE does. You have to understand that we are working with a really old and limited engine. This "mindset" that you spek off is not due to lack of an imagination as you seem to be implying, but it's the result of experience gathered after learning the limitations of the engine. I admit that a lot of your ideas would be cool, but they are either uncodeable, or would be too micro intensive for an rta game like ZH which focuses more on large armies than individual tacticool units with a million abilities. I hate to sound mean, but I absolutely hate it when people are like "Y NO-ONE THINK OF THIS REALLY COOL IDEA, ALL DEVS HAVE NO IMAGINATION LOL!" while obviously knowing nothing about the limitations of SAGE or how to mod ZH. I cannot begin to tell you how annoying it is to see suggestions with virtually no considerations for engine limitations. ZH modding has been around for a long time, chances are if you have a cool idea that no-one seems to be doing it's probably it can't be done, Jets can't fire a specific number of missiles per target, aircraft carrier type units are not possible, objects like the overlord's gattling cannon doesn't have a commanset so it can't switch weapons via manual weapon select, you cannot add to or reduce the timer of a superweapon via upgrades, you cannot invent new buttons to do new commands that aren't in the official game, etc. etc.

tl;dr Before you start thinking about how cool your ideas are and how unoriginal the devs are for not thinking of it, try to find out if your suggestion is even remotely possible, Otherwise no-one is going to take you seriously.

I think there is a misunderstanding as I never implied, at least intentionally, that the developers of this mod or any other weren't creative. The HE/Flashbang turret idea came up now, so it's only after your post that I know that the alternation is impossible, but really, that was just an example. He defaulted to Ranger giving the Guardian a minigun and I responded by saying that how interesting it would be is completely up to them as they don't have to go for the obvious. So I think your complaint is misguided.

Notice how I never questioned timer changes being impossible, the only part I questioned was how it was somehow impossible to make the beam faster with half the dps and twice the duration. (It wasn't denied, it was simply said to be impossible) which I find to be curious as mods clearly can and do edit superweapons.

I also don't understand why Particle Burst Cannon would be impossible when ROTR's Topol-M is working perfectly fine. But if it's because it's a building, again, I understand.

The only reason I suggested multi-targeting was that years ago, I saw a video on a mod's page showcasing a Patriot firing at three helicopters at the same time and everyone was surprised, so I figured it could have been common knowledge since then. I've long forgotten the name of that mod but if you say it can't be done, then I'm not going to question it. I just had a reason for my hope.

All of the suggestions here were those I thought to be possible. I'm trying to post well thought suggestions that I really feel would be better for the gameplay, and the kind of image you're describing is the one I tried to avoid. But I think your lashing out is unjustified and overly dramatic. I'm a reasonable person.

Way Overdue P.S: No, Paladin's PDL doesn't normally have a longer range (lolwut) and it doesn't shoot shells down so the PDL upgrade is meaningful.

This post has been edited by DarkyPwnz: 6 Feb 2014, 5:28

[Zeke]

Notice how I never questioned timer changes being impossible, the only part I questioned was how it was somehow impossible to make the beam faster with half the dps and twice the duration. (It wasn't denied, it was simply said to be impossible) which I find to be curious as mods clearly can and do edit superweapons.

I wasn't replying directly to your post I was giving examples of the things people usually ask for that are impossible.

I also don't understand why Particle Burst Cannon would be impossible when ROTR's Topol-M is working perfectly fine. But if it's because it's a building, again, I understand.

Because the particle cannon is a superweapon, the topol is a normal unit that fires a normal weapon, you can't make a superweapon cost money to reload, and making a normal weapon that would work like a particle cannon would be really hard if not impossible (you won't be able to move it, there would be no visual laser coming from the building, only one from the sky to the target, and it would fire only a single shot because the pay for ammo trick doesn't work for units that fire several shots in one attack).

The only reason I suggested multi-targeting was that years ago, I saw a video on a mod's page showcasing a Patriot firing at three helicopters at the same time and everyone was surprised, so I figured it could have been common knowledge since then. I've long forgotten the name of that mod but if you say it can't be done, then I'm not going to question it. I just had a reason for my hope.

If I'm thinking of the same mod your thinking, that mod is a realism mod. The code he used won't work in a ZH style mod.

Way Overdue P.S: No, Paladin's PDL doesn't normally have a longer range (lolwut) and it doesn't shoot shells down so the PDL upgrade is meaningful.

Well as he said before, you shouldn't use VZH as base in suggesting stuff for his mod, because more often than not, his mod won't work like VZH.

All of the suggestions here were those I thought to be possible. I'm trying to post well thought suggestions that I really feel would be better for the gameplay, and the kind of image you're describing is the one I tried to avoid. But I think your lashing out is unjustified and overly dramatic. I'm a reasonable person.

I don't doubt that you're a reasonable person, I see that you respond well to reason. What does annoy me is that whenever you question someone who tells you "no that's not possible" you do so in a manner where it seems like you're implying "these guys don't know what they're doing...". You have to understand, explaining how sage works, is hard, because sage is retarded. Sometimes doing things that seem simple requires shit tons of coding.

That said I do like a lot of your ideers, even some that are uncodeable (screw you sage).

This post has been edited by Zeke: 6 Feb 2014, 10:02