GLA Antivehicle Concerns, Needs to be mentioned, I feel. Options

[Destiny]

*cough*PrinceKassad*cough* as JJ said

[JJ]

Not just Prince Kassad, since workers are so expendable and not as easily noticable as dozers, it's really not that hard to sneak in one along with your attacking force, or just alone.

There's also base crawling, ie building more tunnels (and Stingers) in front of existing ones.

[Stalker]

IMHO Scuds are very good with tunnels but there is a problem with that imho:

A few generals can easily defeat tunnel-hopping-scuds and others can't do shit against it.

Bunker buster, nerve gas bomb and neutron cannons make tunnel-hopping useless: one hit - everything gone, no matter if there inside or outside at the same moment.

I mostly play on turtlish maps where you can almost shoot from your base to the enemy base. I guess tunnel-hopping would be much more avoidable on different maps.

IMHO GLA heavy artillery is most useful in tunnels, which are badly balanced

[Frostyarmy]

JJ , a single tunnel can be taken down rather easy , its if theres a backup tunnel or stinger that is when it becomes a problem , but most if not all generals can prevent that or stop it all together


Jaimas , GLA is not China or USA , they have a extremely different style of playing and you just have to learn to adapt to it.

This post has been edited by Zhao: 4 Jan 2010, 17:32

[Jaimas]

Zhao, you're missing my point. Wildly, I might add. And your lrn2playnewb attitude certainly is not helping.

However, since you're not getting it, I'll repeat it, and will continue to do so as often as necessary for it to sink in:
The point remains that they remain woefully inefficient and will remain dramatically underused - if not completely unused by many players - if not buffed somehow.

No matter how many times I say that, people seem to construe it as "WAAAH GLA ARTY IS NOT CHINA OR US," which isn't the damned point. The point is that these units are woefully inefficient, cost a General's point, and most - if not ALL - of what they do can be handled just as well by Buggies/Latruns, which cost dramatically less. don't have projectiles that can be intercepted, and don't use a General's point.

This is not quantum physics, and no amount of (admittedly highly impressive) tunnel chicanery replays is going to change this - they aren't effective for cost, while GLA lights are. This is a problem that was brought up previously, and which many of the mod team seems to agree needs at least a cursory glance. I also choose to note, with some dismay, that you've completely ignored my previous point on tunnel networks and GLA Light Artillery - it genuinely does tunnel-ducking ninja-skills especially in the case of Toxin GLA Buggies and Latruns.

Which, in turn, brings me to the main point of the Berserk analogy - because the Berserk, as it stands, sucks but it's still far better for cost than the GLA heavies (though if you want to get technical, if you're using both in a vacuum for comparison - as in capturing the Berserk from an Inf China player - then the Berserk can tunnel-duck too, and is way better than the TOPOL for cost with that factored in). And I didn't even bring up the Zerky's Infinite Barrage glitch.

This post has been edited by Jaimas: 7 Jan 2010, 2:13

[R3ven]

GLA's heavy artillery are very useful, you just need to learn how, and when, to use them.

Especially since deploying heavy artillery is mainly a situational thing. Light artillery, being used for harassment, is supposed to be better at hit-and-run tactics.

The need to deploy heavy artillery like SCUDS, Scourges, FROG-72, Topols(although I'll admit, these need some kind of buff), and Katyushas(these to name the GLA's heavy artillery's) should be deployed if your enemy starts bunkering down, or if the game has been going on long enough that you have a stable enough economy to pump out the expensive units. If not, I recommend just using tanks, and light artillery's.

Now tunnel-ducking is not something I'm good at, ask Zhao he knows this, so I'm not gonna try to explain it.

EDIT: stupid grammatical errors >_<

This post has been edited by huhnu: 7 Jan 2010, 2:55

[JJ]

Unit to unit, GLA heavy artillery is worse overall than the USA Tomahawk, which costs the same, if not more. Sure it has a nifty splash damage, but the Tomahawk has this tracking ability that makes up for its mediocre damage.

I see the point in the argument, as they are only powerful only with tunnels, and that feels wrong. However, buffing them will make tunnel popping even more powerful, so somehow that needs to be dealt with. But then tunnel popping Buggies probably work just as well except when there are obstacles around.

Remember that those artillery pieces require you to spend a general's point, having it situational will just convince people to stick to Rocket Buggies and spend that point at somewhere else.

[Shiro]

Maybe just remove the Generals point and everything is fine? That would at least make them seen more often on the Battlefield. I often though in vGens already like 'Why does such a unit as the SCUD require a Gen Point?' Other possibility would be making their missiles alot harder to intercept if not totally unable.

[Stubbjax]

Maybe just remove the Generals point and everything is fine? That would at least make them seen more often on the Battlefield. I often though in vGens already like 'Why does such a unit as the SCUD require a Gen Point?' Other possibility would be making their missiles alot harder to intercept if not totally unable.

I think decreasing the air time would be a much better solution.

[beefJeRKy]

Yeah that might do the trick. Seeing as how the missiles dont track and aren't too tough to shoot down, they could move faster through the air. Also, slightly less setup time might help *glares at TOPOL*

[Frostyarmy]

decrease the set up time , The speed at which the missle goes at is OK.

This post has been edited by Zhao: 22 Jan 2010, 15:52

[n5p29]

making the SCUD missiles cant be destroyed by avenger lasers or gattling cannons maybe? while the tomahawk can be destroyed.

[ΓΛPΤΘΓ]

making the SCUD missiles cant be destroyed by avenger lasers or gattling cannons maybe? while the tomahawk can be destroyed.

Errrm... no?

[Pandut]

decrease the set up time , The speed at which the missle goes at is OK.

Ummmmm.... Are you sure about that? It takes the TOPOL way too long to hit it's target, which makes it very inefficient in taking out tank convoys, or any vehicle in particular. By the time the TOPOL impacts, the target is is out of range, or too close depending on if the target is attacking the artillery.

The only way I can get it to actually hit a moving unit is by using the 'Attack Ground' command.

[Alias]

It should just require a few extra hits from the Avenger. It should still be destroyable, just not as easily as it can now. 2 Avengers rend 3 Scuds useless, currently.

This post has been edited by Alias: 26 Jan 2010, 6:40

[n5p29]

Errrm... no?

why not? nuke cannon shells also can't be destroyed.
scud launchers and nuke cannon both requires generals point, but scud launcher is like tomahawk with jerky locomotor. the only good thing is it can switch the payload (which didnt help much). and, for artillery missiles avenger lasers are really annoying. more annoying than gattlings.

[Destiny]

...really...do we HAVE to go back to the basic mechanics of how each faction works? Damn.

[ΓΛPΤΘΓ]

Seriously GLA aren't meant to have the brute strength of China. If you want extremely powerful arty or unit, go China. As Alias stated, make SCUD missile to withstand more hits in the air is a better way than to change the whole game to make GLA a brute strength faction.

[n5p29]

who said I want GLA become brute faction? is just changing the SCUD missile impenetrable makes GLA become brute?
anyway, I also agree wth alias. adding more healthpoints to the missiles will be good, but how about make the SCUD missiles can't be lasered by avenger? (note that I'm talking about avenger PDL, not avenger anti-air laser like townes have)

[Destiny]

If the SCUD gets that treatment all ballistic missiles should.

[Frostyarmy]

Why use scuds when you have Rocket buggies and battle buses?

[Alias]

That's the exact point. We're trying to make them more viable.

There's no point having a unit in the game that doesn't get used because it's useless due to a few issues that can be fixed.

[Shiro]

Why use scuds when you have Rocket buggies and battle buses?

That's the exact point. We're trying to make them more viable.

There's no point having a unit in the game that doesn't get used because it's useless due to a few issues that can be fixed.

Exactly.

This post has been edited by KamuiK: 26 Jan 2010, 23:02

[Frostyarmy]

It is a viable unit i would use a scud or two in my tunnels and have rocket buggies and battle buses on the outskirts.

its just wiser to use rocket buggies there light flexable and fast.
even if they lack the damage nesscary to do something , in large groups they can turn battles around
also about topels why not just put them in guard mode around your base that way they automaticly are in set up mode and when a enemy comes close BANG .




This post has been edited by Zhao: 26 Jan 2010, 23:18

[Erik]

Because the missile is slow and wont hit shit?
Because its weak?
Because it will undeploy after one shot because of some bug?
Because an avenger can simply zap it down like nothing?