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SWR Productions Forum _ China Strategies _ Generals Challenge as Leang vs Juhziz

Posted by: KamuiK 14 Aug 2009, 13:14

Inspired by Rocksilvers thread, I played the Generals Challenge as several Generals against Juhziz, and I think it was most difficult with Tank General Kwai and Special Weapon General Leang, and the latter I did not win with.
So has anyone ideas how to defeat Juhziz with Leang?

Posted by: Alias 14 Aug 2009, 13:18

Spam and spam and spam and spam Red Guards. The range advantage really makes a difference, especially since most of what Juhziz initially attacks you with has zero range.

Posted by: Shock 14 Aug 2009, 13:54

Quite inventive, that red guard spam strategy I8.gif

Anyway, a solid strategy, just like with Kwai, is going for an airforce.

Blacksharks > everything he sends at you.

Posted by: Alias 14 Aug 2009, 14:01

QUOTE (Shock @ 14 Aug 2009, 19:54) *
Quite inventive, that red guard spam strategy I8.gif
It was my main Leang strategy whenever I played her, I'm sure you know that. 8I.gif

Posted by: Destiny 14 Aug 2009, 15:38

QUOTE (Alias @ 14 Aug 2009, 17:18) *
Spam and spam and spam and spam Red Guards. The range advantage really makes a difference, especially since most of what Juhziz initially attacks you with has zero range.

Perhaps throwing in a few 'Naders would help if you could afford it.

Posted by: Shock 14 Aug 2009, 16:01

QUOTE (Alias @ 14 Aug 2009, 12:01) *
It was my main Leang strategy whenever I played her, I'm sure you know that. 8I.gif

Yeah although like the RA3 PK spam it's not meant to be, and as you know, such things won't last I8.gif

Posted by: Alias 14 Aug 2009, 16:32

QUOTE (Destiny @ 14 Aug 2009, 21:38) *
Perhaps throwing in a few 'Naders would help if you could afford it.
No, waste of money.
They have no advantages over the Red Guards.
More range? No.
Attack air? No.
Slower firing? Yes.
Weaker in general? Yes.

The SMALL_ARMS damage caused by the Red Guards is almost on level (against tanks) as the anti tank weapon the Grenadier has, and is better against light vehicles.

Posted by: ComeOn225 14 Aug 2009, 17:02

Yep, it's hard.
What I'll do is to rush them with Burritos (for taking out defense and vehicles) and Troop Crawlers (for finding stealth units)
Ravages tanks SUCKS!!! 8Ip.png

Posted by: JJ 14 Aug 2009, 17:06

All you need are Blacksharks, really.

Posted by: ComeOn225 14 Aug 2009, 17:08

QUOTE (Shock @ 14 Aug 2009, 5:54) *
Quite inventive, that red guard spam strategy I8.gif

Anyway, a solid strategy, just like with Kwai, is going for an airforce.

Blacksharks > everything he sends at you.

Uh-huh, I'll agree to that, too. Juhziz don't have any air defenses except those stealth stinger sites...
And you can mow that down with Razors (Kwai) or Phoenixs with MiGs following behind it...

Posted by: ComeOn225 14 Aug 2009, 17:10

QUOTE (ComeOn225 @ 14 Aug 2009, 9:08) *
Uh-huh, I'll agree to that, too. Juhziz don't have any air defenses except those stealth stinger sites...
And you can mow that down with Razors (Kwai) or Phoenixs with MiGs following behind it...

And when i mean "mow", I mean burn.

Posted by: KamuiK 14 Aug 2009, 17:22

So I played again and could win by spamming Buratinos with White Napalm upgrade and steath detection units (the Grenadier Tank Hunter's special ability is very useful for this). Red Guards were not really useful, and neither were Ravage Tanks.
So my tactic was as follows:
Build some Sentinel defences against TopolM rockets, Grenadier Tank Hunters against slow moving units and try to get Buratinos with White Napalm asap, then go both the northern and southern way to destroy his main base, in the meanwhile it should be possible to destroy his SCUD storm with airforce, then finish him. Never forget to check the way for pesky demotraps.

Posted by: Destiny 14 Aug 2009, 21:19

If you could afford to get more arty-ish units...perhaps like the Hammer you could start firin' randomly and kill some demotraps I8.gif The problem I see is that the AI has a habit of sending stuff down the bridge.

Posted by: Shock 15 Aug 2009, 1:14

At random fire the Buratino is more effective at killing those traps due to the long and widespread barrage.

Hammers are just always lovely to use, the feeling of power that moving around those giant cannons give is unbeatable.

Posted by: KamuiK 15 Aug 2009, 1:55

They indeed are. However, I tried some other things as well, and spamming TOS-1 Buratinos with the assistance of Grenadier Tank Hunters, Support Crawlers and Black Sharks has proven to be the most effecient way to destroy Juhziz's main base. The biggest problem is how to destroy his SCUD Storm after all, as once the timer expieres, you can say 'Fare well!' to your base. So getting loads of Black Sharks on the most southern route to destroy his Command Center and SCUDy is the best way to kill him. Juhziz has the strange habit to not rebuild his Command Center all too often. Also, the best way to destroy his nothern support base is the Napalm Strike Lv3, directly followed by again Buratinos and Black Sharks.
Last thing: his ZSU AA vehicles are in groups of 2 or 3 VERY effective, so do not use Black Sharks or Phoenix against them.

Posted by: Alias 15 Aug 2009, 4:11

If the Red Guards weren't working you were doing something wrong, when I've got a spare half hour I'll try and do it, as I remember winning the whole thing practically with just Red Guards last time I tried it.

(You can get replays from Generals' Challenge, right?)

Posted by: Zhao 15 Aug 2009, 6:10

tbh i never found that to be that diffcult spam the most OP units , MG infantry , Stealth detection (flying overlord ) blacksharks biggrin.gif
EDIT : Would not try that on .96 though I8.gif

Posted by: KamuiK 15 Aug 2009, 13:34

QUOTE (Alias @ 15 Aug 2009, 2:11) *
If the Red Guards weren't working you were doing something wrong, when I've got a spare half hour I'll try and do it, as I remember winning the whole thing practically with just Red Guards last time I tried it.

(You can get replays from Generals' Challenge, right?)

First thing: sorry for being blunt but I do not give a damn on your opinion and you know that.
Second: MG Red Guards were down before I could give them the attack order, since Juhziz's BRDM vehicles took them out pretty fast, and I had not enough artillery ready to counter them.

Posted by: Alias 15 Aug 2009, 13:45

Even though I haven't played ShockWave for a few months, I have around four years ShockWave experience and more than two and a half years of online experience. While I'm certainly not the 'best' player, I have been noted by others for my creativity. Whether you respect my 'opinion' or not, you shouldn't disregard my advice.

I'm simply giving you (as of the current version), the most effective early game Leang tactic against any opponent. Unless something has mysteriously changed in the Generals Challenge since the initial 0.95 release, Juhziz isn't going to have BRDMs out before you have a ludicrous horde trained (once you get to this stage losing a few here and there is nothing).

Do note when I said spam, I mean spam. At least 2 (3 or 4 even) Barracks as early as possible and pumping out those Red Guards non-stop. Against a GLA opponent they are by far the most cost effective early game solution for both defence and offence.

Posted by: KamuiK 15 Aug 2009, 13:57

That comes from being overall sleepy, I am sorry. I did not notice the fact about when you say 'spam', you meant to pump out hundreds of Red Guards. That is likely due to the fact I do not use that many Red Guards, but rather vehicles (the only infantry unit I really spam as China and any Chinese General are internet drying Hackers).
Edit: I have a save state of the game where Juhziz is almost defeated, HOWEVER I have no clue how to get a replay, maybe because I saved and loaded a few times during the game.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 15 Aug 2009, 15:12

QUOTE (KamuiK @ 15 Aug 2009, 10:57) *
That comes from being overall sleepy, I am sorry. I did not notice the fact about when you say 'spam', you meant to pump out hundreds of Red Guards. That is likely due to the fact I do not use that many Red Guards, but rather vehicles (the only infantry unit I really spam as China and any Chinese General are internet drying Hackers).
Edit: I have a save state of the game where Juhziz is almost defeated, HOWEVER I have no clue how to get a replay, maybe because I saved and loaded a few times during the game.


The save is probably why.

If the option to save reply isn't on the post-game carnage report then you can't.

Posted by: KamuiK 15 Aug 2009, 15:53

Yeah, it is likely because there is no option how to save the replay otherwise, and going into the replay screen did not give me the last replay as the Generals Challenge but something else sadly.

Posted by: Shock 16 Aug 2009, 13:22

Generals challenge cannot be saved into replays, just like the campaign missions, period.

Posted by: KamuiK 16 Aug 2009, 13:27

I said that already. However nice someone comfirms it. Seems like I have to make do with tthe fact I cannot show my success.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 19 Aug 2009, 16:39

I played this challenge last night.

I could't get my MG Red Guard to properly defend my base as suggested here. So I chose the airforce option. Blackshark with assault upgrade can take down anything that comes at you, but it's good to have a few tanks to deal with the occasional anti air.
When attacking the base I relied mainly on artillery and a few tanks, dragon tanks and a support crawler to defend them, as well as a blackshark to take out the hordes of terrorists that he sends.
The smaller northern base was easy picking once I used some of my generals powers to wipe out sections of the minefield.

Posted by: KamuiK 19 Aug 2009, 22:02

Same for me. My startup went pretty good, but then came lots of suicide units and later TopolM's, Rocket Marauders and other stuff. The main problem for me is how to get enough money in the short time and the relativly small build space you have, also (a bug?) that almost the whole map is black fogged instead of the transparent one so you have to guess where his defenses are when doing the first strike against his base. AND his SCUD storm of doom.

Posted by: EddJimyDD 25 Aug 2009, 1:50

Had anyone tried to build far from the command center?? The only thing he points with the scud storm is the command center based in my observations.

Posted by: ka1000 25 Aug 2009, 5:05

he normally always aims at your most expensive group of buildings/units but since it's such a cramped space to build it's possible it looks as if he always fires at the cc.

i for once never had any trouble fighting juhziz as any other general. you just have to endure his scudstorm one time and then you just keep spamming gen powers to eliminate it before it builds up/recharges again. the rest is a piece of cake really, since his units are generally piss weak.

Posted by: KamuiK 25 Aug 2009, 13:53

QUOTE (ka1000 @ 25 Aug 2009, 3:05) *
you just have to endure his scudstorm one time

I endured it 3 or 4 times, as I had nothing else to do tongue.gif But yeah, one time at least the SCUD Storm will hit, since it has on buildup (a bug?) a recharge time of 5 min instead of the 30 minutes it has after that.

QUOTE (ka1000 @ 25 Aug 2009, 3:05) *
since his units are generally piss weak

Not to my knowledge, Juhziz has some of the most versatile and strong units a conventional arsenal can offer.

Posted by: Destiny 25 Aug 2009, 14:49

IIRC massed...err...those...err...Flak-thingies can seriously kill a lot of stuff. People, vehicles, tanks, fighters, helicopters etc.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 25 Aug 2009, 15:56

Yeah his anti-air/anti-infantry units are immensely powerful. Combine that with the annoying range of rocket buggies and you've got a recipe for disaster.

Sometimes you can kill the SCUD storm before it fires first time, but you got to be lucky tongue.gif

Posted by: KamuiK 25 Aug 2009, 16:57

Has anyone noticed that the Dozer seems to not be able to detect Juhziz's Advanced Demotraps?

Posted by: Pickysaurus 25 Aug 2009, 17:08

QUOTE (KamuiK @ 25 Aug 2009, 13:57) *
Has anyone noticed that the Dozer seems to not be able to detect Juhziz's Advanced Demotraps?


I thought Dozers only disarmed, you needed to detect them with another unit?

Posted by: KamuiK 25 Aug 2009, 17:22

AFAIK Dozer's can see AND disable mines, however I might be wrong about this.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 25 Aug 2009, 18:37

QUOTE (KamuiK @ 25 Aug 2009, 14:22) *
AFAIK Dozer's can see AND disable mines, however I might be wrong about this.


Just looking through the Generals game manual, it says Dozers clear minefields. Nothing about stealth detection. They can however see booby traps (like the ones strapped to Oil Derricks)

Posted by: EddJimyDD 26 Aug 2009, 0:01

What if relying in air force works?? You could build you air fields far away well protected and send spammed MiGs to assault the stinger sites one by one. Or you could send them in pairs and then have tank support as the fire could kill the RPG troopers in stinger sites. Or send loads of blacksharks with assault upgrade in group with MiGs.

Posted by: Pickysaurus 26 Aug 2009, 0:09

QUOTE (EddJimyDD @ 25 Aug 2009, 21:01) *
What if relying in air force works?? You could build you air fields far away well protected and send spammed MiGs to assault the stinger sites one by one. Or you could send them in pairs and then have tank support as the fire could kill the RPG troopers in stinger sites. Or send loads of blacksharks with assault upgrade in group with MiGs.


I'm not saying that won't work, but it's not very cost effective.

Posted by: EddJimyDD 26 Aug 2009, 0:13

So try to protect the internet center and build some hack vans at the start of the game.

Also, Topol Ms give me a lot of problems. Have any strategy against them?

EDIT:Found it of. Using a group of four sentinel cannons can take out the missiles while airforce takes the Topol Ms down. 8chi.png

Posted by: KamuiK 26 Aug 2009, 2:47

QUOTE (EddJimyDD @ 25 Aug 2009, 22:13) *
So try to protect the internet center and build some hack vans at the start of the game.

You mean midgame. Also that does not work so fast since one has too low money to do that, and if you spare the money for Hackers and their equipment, you are toast before you know it. In the meantime Juhziz will have build up this SCUDy. The greatest problem on the map is the low money compared to many fast attack waves.

QUOTE (EddJimyDD @ 25 Aug 2009, 22:13) *
Also, Topol Ms give me a lot of problems. Have any strategy against them?

Either any kind of Airforce or Dual Gatling tanks which kill the missile while driving forward and then kill off the TopolM itself with tanks or Grenade Tank Hunters.

Posted by: EddJimyDD 27 Aug 2009, 22:24

Hey!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I won!!!!!!!!!!! Blowed up his two bases!!!!!!!!! boom8.gif It is REAL!!!!!!!
Next and last challenge is Granger!!!!!!!!
I´ll post my strategy later when i have free time. 8chi.png

Posted by: Casojin 3 Sep 2009, 10:16

I think using Leang is not hard. Mined bunker and Buratino are highly effective against his suicide units and his tanks. MiG can take care of his Topol quite effectively and During the attack, just bombard him with your long range artillery before moving in with vehicles and heli to hold position before advancing further. SCUD storm can be dealt with by using Black Lotus or General Powers (Nuke + LVL3 Artillery = Superweapon killer). Concentrate on his southern base. Northern one can be cleared using aircrafts or General Powers later.

The hard part is to find an effective defense position since the map is all covered with black shroud.

Posted by: KamuiK 3 Sep 2009, 13:52

You only overlooked the fact that Leang has no nuclear weaponry at all (if you mean the temple of gaia, ok). Also, the main problem still is the money on the map compared to several fast attack waves. Getting to the oil derricks without being hit at all is a matter of luck. Also, where do you build your airfield without it being in range of his TopolM?

Posted by: Pickysaurus 3 Sep 2009, 21:32

QUOTE (KamuiK @ 3 Sep 2009, 10:52) *
Also, where do you build your airfield without it being in range of his TopolM?


I built mine just in front of the command centre, no TopolM's got it. Just the SCUD storm T.T

Posted by: EddJimyDD 4 Sep 2009, 23:47

QUOTE (KamuiK @ 3 Sep 2009, 5:52) *
You only overlooked the fact that Leang has no nuclear weaponry at all (if you mean the temple of gaia, ok). Also, the main problem still is the money on the map compared to several fast attack waves. Getting to the oil derricks without being hit at all is a matter of luck. Also, where do you build your airfield without it being in range of his TopolM?


You should get a crawler and a gattling tank with your ravage tanks when your defenses are up. The crawler will detect demo traps and tanks will get them down.

Posted by: JJ 5 Sep 2009, 12:23

Better, get an outpost, it detects and kills at the same time.

Posted by: EddJimyDD 5 Sep 2009, 19:09

Using a dozer to disarm demo traps near crates helps a lot for crates not to blow up to unreachable terrain.
Maybe some of this tips help in with the tank general.

This may sound strange here but I can´t defeat Juhziz with nuke general. Can someone help me?

Posted by: KamuiK 5 Sep 2009, 19:36

Nuke vs Demo huh? Make a new thread for that. I will try it in the meantime.

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