Question about Russian Commando Options

[Emin96]

Hello everyone

Can anyone explain me this picture




how is possible that Russian Commando have Building Capture upgrade.why is taked that decision

thanks in advance

[MedX]

In 1.85 the VDV Trooper can now capture buildings and VDV RPG Trooper can now switch to thermobaric rockets.

This post has been edited by MedX: 29 Dec 2014, 13:03

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Hooo boy...
This actually changes quite alot. Well VDV is gonna be an even bigger pain in the ass. Can they still not target air?

[MedX]

Can they still not target air?

right, they still can't attack aircraft

[Serialkillerwhal...]

Don't the VDV replace Orlov's conscripts?

Without this, how'd he capture?

This post has been edited by Serialkillerwhale: 29 Dec 2014, 20:57

[Nemanja]

I think that VDV was supposed to be used only via General Power.

[Havoc]

Don't the VDV replace Orlov's conscripts?

Without this, how'd he capture?

Orlov will have Spetsnaz instead of conscripts and VDV raid as GP. Doesn't make much sence to me, because VDV is essentially a Marine corps equivalent, i.e. better trained grunts.

[{Lads}RikerZZZ]

Orlov will have Spetsnaz instead of conscripts and VDV raid as GP. Doesn't make much sence to me, because VDV is essentially a Marine corps equivalent, i.e. better trained grunts.

It means that you can use them to more effect, either capping enemy structures, or going after tech buildings that's your enemy may have locked down.
It makes the units more versatile, which I'm very much in favor with.
Its just gonna be a pain to kill them

[MARS]

Orlov will have Spetsnaz instead of conscripts and VDV raid as GP. Doesn't make much sence to me, because VDV is essentially a Marine corps equivalent, i.e. better trained grunts.

VDV are airborne troops. As such, it is reasonable to use them as part of a call-in ability, rather than as a unit that simply walks out of your barracks.

[Lizvne]

One more question. The new Advanced munitions upgrade is still not applicable to them?

[The_Hunter]

One more question. The new Advanced munitions upgrade is still not applicable to them?

Nope its not they get all their abbilties from the get go.

[HMS Warspite]

I think this is one of General Orlov's (Russia for 1.85) to-be gimmicks?

EDIT: emin96, I didn't know you designed the Cerberus for Empires & Allies. I quit that game long time ago.

This post has been edited by Nanako Dojima: 31 Dec 2014, 9:36

[Mcbob]

Orlov will have Spetsnaz instead of conscripts and VDV raid as GP. Doesn't make much sence to me, because VDV is essentially a Marine corps equivalent, i.e. better trained grunts.

*Army Rangers. Marine and Army infantry training is not much different; the former being overhyped and overrated to the point of hyperbole. Rangers are both highly trained and airborne capable more so than rank-and-file Army and Marines.

[Havoc]

*Army Rangers. Marine and Army infantry training is not much different; the former being overhyped and overrated to the point of hyperbole. Rangers are both highly trained and airborne capable more so than rank-and-file Army and Marines.

I actually meant that both are separate branches of armed forces and are supposed to act as a vanguard for the ordinary infantry. I know that VDV have higher physical requirements and training standarts than Russian army and accents on operating with little support, but my knowledge is rather lacking regarding US forces.

[Emin96]

I think this is one of General Orlov's (Russia for 1.85) to-be gimmicks?

EDIT: emin96, I didn't know you designed the Cerberus for Empires & Allies. I quit that game long time ago.

i played long time ago that game but unfortunately its closed because game was infected by hacking and its closed

[HMS Warspite]

i played long time ago that game but unfortunately its closed because game was infected by hacking and its closed

I see...

R.I.P. Empires and Allies. Not that I care about it (I used to, but I was more of a Mafia Wars person), but still, figured I'd give respects, even though it's late. Better late than never.

On-topic: While Spetsnaz already have Capture Building, VDV having Capture Building makes for a neat gimmick for Orlov. Watch your back, ECA. "Watch. Your. Back." -Valeera Sanguinar, Hearthstone, 2013-present (2014 in your area, 2015 in my area)

[Emin96]

I think this is one of General Orlov's (Russia for 1.85) to-be gimmicks?

EDIT: emin96, I didn't know you designed the Cerberus for Empires & Allies. I quit that game long time ago.

The Cerberus wasnt designed by me.Every empires allies models and texturing work go to ZYNGA i put my self for make better images just for signature

i removed it

[teslashark]

Orlov will have Spetsnaz instead of conscripts and VDV raid as GP. Doesn't make much sence to me, because VDV is essentially a Marine corps equivalent, i.e. better trained grunts.

The VDV is merely a different branch of the real world Russian military, like a second land army, so they have their own grunts and their own spetz. Maybe in the future the unit names would be switched around?

This post has been edited by teslashark: 2 Jan 2015, 12:48

[MARS]

Again, why should they be switched around? The VDV is basically a whole branch dedicated to airborne operations. As such, it makes perfect sense to deliver these guys by plane as part of a general power, rather than producing them out of your Barracks. Spetsnaz on the other hand is an umbrella term for Russian special forces and we will call them that because we don't want to nail down every tiny detail, thus you can use your own imagination as to whether the ones you use in-game would be army, navy, airborne, FSB, MVD or whatever. It's the exact same reason why we simply called the ECA special forces 'Commandos' so that you don't get clutter from distinguishing them into Paras, SAS and Royal Marines.

[teslashark]

Again, why should they be switched around? The VDV is basically a whole branch dedicated to airborne operations. As such, it makes perfect sense to deliver these guys by plane as part of a general power, rather than producing them out of your Barracks. Spetsnaz on the other hand is an umbrella term for Russian special forces and we will call them that because we don't want to nail down every tiny detail, thus you can use your own imagination as to whether the ones you use in-game would be army, navy, airborne, FSB, MVD or whatever. It's the exact same reason why we simply called the ECA special forces 'Commandos' so that you don't get clutter from distinguishing them into Paras, SAS and Royal Marines.

They are not very dedicated, but more like privileged - in 1993, VDV grunts fought the Russian army on the streets, acting as the private army of VDV commander-in-chief Vladislav Achalov (who is also by no means an airborne specialists but a jack of all branches). During the second Chechen war, the VDV did not paradrop to combat zones in most battles. In recent wars which the new VDV commander Vladimir Shamanov took part in, he considered grunts from the army and the reserve under his command "his" team.
If the VDV should arrive by air, we can assume they entered the map by air.

This post has been edited by teslashark: 3 Jan 2015, 4:19

[Lizvne]

Spetsnaz on the other hand is an umbrella term for Russian special forces

Ah, Wikipedia quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spetsnaz. I believe wiki is not particularly well describes the topic.

Teslashark is right.
Spetsnaz is an elites who are not rank-and-file mass produced infantry. The VDV itself have spetsnaz branch. I couldn't even find their numbers by the way. Closest thing to Spetsnaz as for now are Alexander's Shock troopers.
Calling advanced infantry "Spetsnaz" is just plain wrong from language standpoint. Better-kind-of-infantry troops can be called some other way.

Oh, and by the way. Green Berets, who are "US VDV" are produced from barracks.

[Nemanja]

Ah, Wikipedia quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spetsnaz. I believe wiki is not particularly well describes the topic.

No actually it describes it very well,it is just that you have to actually pay attention to what are you reading.
Spetsnaz basically means Special Forces,so when you say that it means you weren't specific which ones.

[MARS]

Also, likening the Green Berets to a 'US VDV' is not exactly accurate either. Army Special Forces are also very much airborne capable (like pretty much ALL modern special forces), but beyond that Green Berets are also experts at unconventional/guerilla style warfare, special recon, subversion and counter-terrorism. A better point of comparison would be the 101st/82nd Airborne, except that the VDV aren't merely an airborne unit, but a whole airborne branch. Naturally, asymmetrical conflicts like those of the present may still see the deployment of airborne forces in a way that isn't exactly airborne, but that's only due to the fact that airborne units are also more rapidly deployable and tend to be above the usual standard when it comes to their fighting capabilities. But the point is, -we- chose to depict them in the way that is most representative of their intended role, the one they are famous for, which is jumping out of a giant cargo plane together with a bunch of combat vehicles and tearing shit up in the enemy's rear echelon whereas our use of the term Spetsnaz for Orlov's upcoming units basically translates to 'these guys are tacticool Russian special forces' and we decided to -only- call them Spetsnaz so that the realism nerds would not ask us to distinguish them as GRU, Alfa, Vympel and whatever else there is - because they -can- be whichever one you -want- them to be in your game.

[teslashark]

Also, likening the Green Berets to a 'US VDV' is not exactly accurate either. Army Special Forces are also very much airborne capable (like pretty much ALL modern special forces), but beyond that Green Berets are also experts at unconventional/guerilla style warfare, special recon, subversion and counter-terrorism. A better point of comparison would be the 101st/82nd Airborne, except that the VDV aren't merely an airborne unit, but a whole airborne branch. Naturally, asymmetrical conflicts like those of the present may still see the deployment of airborne forces in a way that isn't exactly airborne, but that's only due to the fact that airborne units are also more rapidly deployable and tend to be above the usual standard when it comes to their fighting capabilities. But the point is, -we- chose to depict them in the way that is most representative of their intended role, the one they are famous for, which is jumping out of a giant cargo plane together with a bunch of combat vehicles and tearing shit up in the enemy's rear echelon whereas our use of the term Spetsnaz for Orlov's upcoming units basically translates to 'these guys are tacticool Russian special forces' and we decided to -only- call them Spetsnaz so that the realism nerds would not ask us to distinguish them as GRU, Alfa, Vympel and whatever else there is - because they -can- be whichever one you -want- them to be in your game.

The wikipedia page on the VDV is very undersourced, but anyway...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Airborne_Troops
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Russian_...rces_within_VDV

The US-sorta-VDV is probably the MC, and now they do less island hopping and LCAC deloyments than ever. How about the 82nd Infantry Division? They stopped jumping from planes and almost from helis. French Paratroopers are almost exclusively truckborne - even as they are exclusively called the "Para". VDV doing jumps is not the most iconic thing about them.
The only thing your on-site realism nerd demands is to name the T0 infantry VDV Grunts and the GP deployment infantry VDV Spetz. It's a given they are the elite - AMONG - all the VDV troopers, not borrowed from other branches.

[MARS]

Airborne units doing less para-droppy stuff nowadays is due to the fact that most conflicts they're involved in nowadays are asymmetrical and counter insurgency. These units are still very much airborne-focussed, but they are no longer being used as such -at this time in reality- because there isn't much use for them to be dropped behind enemy lines (in conflicts that no longer have lines) to disrupt supply lines or capture strategic objectives until your main force arrives. It's true that airborne units usually derp around on the ground in trucks nowadays, but that's only due to current day necessity, because their main forte is not required for this current kind of conflicts, but on the other hand, they're still above average fighters who you'd -want- to have around in a hostile environment. But ROTR depicts a classic conventional war between state militaries. As such, battle lines exist, ground control is a thing and airborne units are used in an actual airborne context once again, even though US Airborne divisions in Afghanistan or VDV troops in Chechnya aren't doing that in RL nowadays because it's a whole different kind of war they're in.