Can't Survive against the Evil Dr.Thrax on Hard challenge, same as above Options

[FabulousPug]

I've managed to beat Townes in my 2nd try! 2 things that propelled me to victory: Early eastern supplies and HOWITZERS. Finally Ironsides artillery shines!

I strarted with 3 dozers at once, 2 were left in the base doing usual stuff and one was appointed to circumvent possible enemy garrisons and defenses and to arrive to the eastern suppy pile. To get any use of it I needed fast money so again, well placed supply building with 3 trucks constantly moving in cirles through it was optimal, and the cash income was enough to get my base up and running plus a war factory to produce 2 AA tanks and something to defend against infantry.
This is because the all the air attacks were going there, as I painfully realized the first time, in addition to some infantry squads; they also might garrison nearby buildings and shoot at supply trucks, so the war factory can be used to produce a garrison-clearing vehicle to deal with that, along with repairing your tanks and trucks.
I didn't manage to hold it in both tries, but it was enough to allow me a stedy development of the main base.

Now in the main base, I've built the line of defences in an arch starting left of the suppy pile and building to the right, ending near the dark civilian building at the border of the map. The defences were all anti-tank except one anti-inf. I've also built one anti-if to the right of the supply pile on the road, and one to the right of the vehicle-auto-repair buulding to deal with some infantry and a possible Burton attack respectively.

To manage to defend myself from armored blobs coming at me, I selected Howitzers as my first GP and build one as soon as I had funds, so the enemy long range stuff can be dealt with. Then I made more Howitzers with 3 AA tanks to deal with both the tank blobs and possible air attacks (which came only after my expansion was destroyed).

I found my infantry to be lacking here, as they're expensive and the point-laser-defense on Laser Paladins just deflects missiles and kills them if too close. Would only work in masses, bur due to their costs and the small time window to prepare defenses, infantry didn't cut it for me


Later when the particle cannons are about to fire, there's a trick to divert them where you want - they will always target your Superweapon if you have it. So if you have one, all you have to do is constantly repair it with a dozer, avoidind the beam when it comes near; this way all 3 particle beams will fire on the same thing and will do nothing but damage the Cluster Missile. If you don't want to use the Cluster, it's no problem as long as you can repair it constantly, although I've used it on his Particle Cannons along with Grenade Drop lv.3 which removed all 3 of them very nicely.
After that is just a matter of tanks and howitzer production to attack and finnish him.

I hope it helps, good luck

EDIT
For the earlier question, by Predator Drone I meant the stealth drone-tank which can also detect stealth.

This post has been edited by FabulousPug: 6 Nov 2015, 23:56

[RodentDung]

Wow you are becoming a master of general warfare. I expected this battle to be very hard without mines to stop his powerful tanks.

I will try using the howitzers like you say.
When I was China I also noticed his use of the photon lasers was wasted on strong nuke silos.

I don't trust Townes. If I had a daughter and she brought home Townes as her date, I would call the police and recommend they sterilize the predator.

[Lobo Solitario]

Sorry, no Ironside-specific Townes tips - tbh I don't remember ever playing this matchup. Unfortunately Townes' main weakness is that he hardly uses any AA outside his base, so helicopters can make short work of his attack forces - but since Ironside doesn't have any, you'll need some other trick.

Keep an eye out for Burton - he likes to sneak in along the raised highway and enter your base through the ramp on the right.

Apart from the brutal ground attacks he's going to be sending groups of laser commanches, which really chew up ground targets.

For a quick economy boost, at the far end of the map, squeezed in between Townes' base and the top edge of the map, there's a set of oilfields and tech buildings. You might be able to sneak some rangers in here in an air transport if you're careful, by skirting the very edge of the map. As far as I know he only sends some infantry here, so you might even be able to hold it all match.

[Rohan]

Juhziz has some pretty nasty AA, so you can't generally leave your planes on patrol without them getting shot down sooner or later, but there's a lot of space for hit & run attacks and airstrikes before his units reach your base.

That bomb terrorist has no mobile AA to protect his tanks and Topols so that is his weak point.

As far as I know, Juhziz never builds AA Units when playing on Medium and Hard Difficulty. It's a challenge bug. So, on those difficulties, focusing on aircraft more is a good strategy.

[FabulousPug]

I actually saw two AA tanks from Juhziz on hard but that's all he ever had. 4 planes are enough imo, cause it's suicide to attack his bases with Ironside's weak planes anyway. Attacking his northern base can be done this way, though it will use up a lot of resources for rebuilding planes, and the southern base can't be penetrated unless having like 4 full airfields constantly bombing.. Though playing as Laser general this could be a viable strategy because of point laser defense on his planes.. just a theory. Leang's black planes could also drop bombs safely when upgraded but they do too low damage vs buildings and are more of support units anyway, I guess.
I love this thread, I could discuss tactics all day with people here.

[RodentDung]

For the bomb terrorist, good old-fashioned troops & tanks in a big battlegroup pushing into enemy territory is the key to success. Just have to use guard mode instead of 'attack to' so buildings (mines) will be destroyed too.

Yes discussing tactics is a very good thing to do.

Now I will face the fanatical laser freak again. Wish me luck.

As for the northern oil derricks and utility buildings, he has very heavily garrisoned condominiums blocking the way there. I plan to fight my way up there using infantry and tanks but that will be a late game project using carefully planned bite & hold tactics to defend against his ongoing infantry & tank attacks coming off the ramps.

You said Townes doesn't use mobile AA so I will try to make an airfield. I"m concerned about his photon lasers which could melt an airfield before I get the expensive cluster silo made as a decoy for the lasers.

FabPug, how did you get rid of the hundreds of tanks up on his plateau? As China I kept nuking them but that is a bit cowardly I think so I prefer to use a ground attack to reduce his base this time.

EDIT:

Okay I just tried doing an airplane strategy against Townes. I lost within 10 minutes or less when his Paladins crushed my base. His photons never even had time to charge up before I lost. The first airplane I made was shot down immediately by his troops so I used the next planes over my base directly and they good work. I made about 8 turrets on the ground for defense plus some infantry but I don't think his armor even noticed them cause his microwaves turn them off. Turrets are useless in this battle. I think only the war factory stuff can defend with any chance.

This post has been edited by RodentDung: 7 Nov 2015, 20:15

[FabulousPug]

Turrets are good but for the first attack or two try to get a howitzer ready. Just one or two howitzers can turn back the attacks because his tanks and microwave/railguns arty will clump together in the spot below a bridge to the north of your base. Howitzers do area damage and just need some meat shield so they don't get attacked. Turrets are built as money allows just to hold enemy forces still. 2 AA tanks by the Howitzers, behind the turrets we enough to kill off all his air attacks. I wouldn't recommend planes early because it's expensive, the Black Widow isn't effective vs Paladind and Avengers (yes, he did send his laser AA tanks at me), and the $1800 planes are even more expensive - IMO, a $1500 Howitzer is much better and doesn't take up much micro-time.

For late game, bomber planes could be good to demolish some buildings like war factory or strategy center, though I can't tell for sure as I've never tried it this way. What I can tell is what happened to me - his Laser Turrets never actually got online! Even when I was storming in with my armies, they were just sitting there, black and idle, so only the Laser Designator turrets (his other defence type) and his tanks were fighting me.

This is similar to Granger not bothering to do something about his power outage. Fine strategists they are, beating at us who only got a dozer and a puny command center while they possess a million buildings and troops.

[RodentDung]

Townes base is designed to turn on lasers where needed and keep them offline when not needed. He has too many lasers to keep powered up. If you find his lasers are off, either he is using lasers somewhere else to defend or you destroyed too many power plants using cluster bombs or something. When I fought him using China and Alex, his lasers always worked so it was impossible for me to bomb him with planes. When I was China, I nukes his laser turrets so maybe I helped him by reducing his power need. I'm going to try and win this battle conventionally with troops and tanks after I have a secure base with many defenses. I will make drop zones and a few factories making stuff non-stop, then launch a huge attack with much destruction and fighting.

I will try again today using howitzers for defense instead of planes. Hopefully I will have Townes in a paddy wagon on his way for some intense tasering by my interrogation team. After electrotherapy, maybe we will hire him to yell insults and complaints at enemy generals while I am fighting them.

[FabulousPug]

You're probably right I did dump a cluster on him.

Have you ever tried to go for the northern supply pile? I did try it once but my dozer was killed so I gave up on it. It could be possible to take both northern and eastern supply piles to get some fast cash, although a lot of time and resources would be spent at early game.. main base could easily fall due to lack of proper defenses.

I'd gladly put some screenshots if it would help, but currently I'm switching my internet provider and the for a few days from now I won't have a connection. Right now my old phone is the only thing linking me to the net x_x

This post has been edited by FabulousPug: 8 Nov 2015, 0:32

[Lobo Solitario]

As far as I know, Juhziz never builds AA Units when playing on Medium and Hard Difficulty. It's a challenge bug. So, on those difficulties, focusing on aircraft more is a good strategy.

Weird, I could swear he's used it against me before - maybe I'm mixing up difficulties, as there isn't much difference between easy and hard for Juhziz.

You said Townes doesn't use mobile AA so I will try to make an airfield. I"m concerned about his photon lasers which could melt an airfield before I get the expensive cluster silo made as a decoy for the lasers.

EDIT:

Okay I just tried doing an airplane strategy against Townes. I lost within 10 minutes or less when his Paladins crushed my base. His photons never even had time to charge up before I lost. The first airplane I made was shot down immediately by his troops so I used the next planes over my base directly and they good work. I made about 8 turrets on the ground for defense plus some infantry but I don't think his armor even noticed them cause his microwaves turn them off. Turrets are useless in this battle. I think only the war factory stuff can defend with any chance.

Yeah, I think you'd have trouble using planes as the primary defense against Townes - you just need too much time, space and money to get enough of them to be effective. Helicopters are a lot easier as you only need one production building and you can mass them easily - or for the infantry general a few helixes full of rocket troops can slaughter most of the stuff that Townes throws at you. He does garrison plenty of missile soldiers, so the space your aircraft can maneuver in is limited. FabulousPug's howitzer option sounds much better.

I wouldn't recommend planes early because it's expensive, the Black Widow isn't effective vs Paladind and Avengers (yes, he did send his laser AA tanks at me), and the $1800 planes are even more expensive - IMO, a $1500 Howitzer is much better and doesn't take up much micro-time.

For late game, bomber planes could be good to demolish some buildings like war factory or strategy center, though I can't tell for sure as I've never tried it this way. What I can tell is what happened to me - his Laser Turrets never actually got online! Even when I was storming in with my armies, they were just sitting there, black and idle, so only the Laser Designator turrets (his other defence type) and his tanks were fighting me.

Agree that planes aren't cost-effective here. I find helicopters better as even when he does send Avengers it's normally only one or two at most, and they're less dangerous to your airforce than the Paladins and railgun artillery are to your ground units.

I've noticed that the laser turrets don't seem to work now too, although I haven't investigated it too thoroughly. In the original ZH they used to turn on by sections to not overload his power plants - I think the idea was that you should rush him from all sides at once so he wouldn't be able to turn them all on, although in practice that's too much effort compared to just nuking a hole in his defenses or taking out his power grid. Maybe the scripting got messed up somewhere along the way when the map was changed to Shockwave.


This post has been edited by Lobo Solitario: 8 Nov 2015, 17:01

[Rohan]

Also Ironside's Stryker (The repair vehicle) can actually clear garrisoned buildings.

[RodentDung]

I tried a howitzer strategy and it also failed in about 10 minutes. The howitzer is expensive to get so I only had 2 laser turrets (cheaper & sees burton) with 2 soldiers inside, 2 phalanx and 2 AA tanks, 1 howitzer and a few troops and a couple of Wraith tanks for defense when he attacked and steamrolled. The howizter couldn't damage his units at all so it ended up with AA tanks pecking away at his paladins for no damage and so he basically steamrolled for free. Not sure what to try. Turrets get shut off, AA and Wrath tanks gets destroyed easily but the AA tanks are vital for his steady chopper attacks but they can't damage other units, and the howitzer only did 1 millimeter of damage to an enemy tank's health bar each shot so they would take forever to kill anything. The Wraiths were destroyed before they could do anything even with that rocket upgrade which is supposed to help.

Mammoths are the only thing left to try but are expensive so I might only get 1 made by when he attacks. If I make no turrets at all it will help with money but leave the front naked to attack except for a few infantry I could put down to delay.

[FabulousPug]

Try an AT turret or two and possibly some concrete slabs positiones so they would be attacked first
Don't build laser designator turrets, Burton doesn't come that soon if at all, and infantry are just too expensive plus their rockets get shot down.. The turrets should serve primarily to shield the howitzers behind. If you didn't try an expansion you should as it helps immensely early in the game.
I absolutely don't want to sound like ordering you to do as I say, please don't get that feeling.
Personally I would loose every time had I not went for that expansion. And I never encountered his burton either.
At the beginning of attacks I had 2 howitzers and 1 AT turret, and they did manage to defend with some micro with Howitzer shooting. But then, I did have 2 supply collection operations so I was able to produce more turrets and howitzers in main base + 2 AA tanks at my expansion to delay its destruction.

He usually attacked with just 2 either choppers or stealth planes and just 2 AA Tanks repelled them, gained veterancy and were more effective from there on (they did not get targeted often so I guess that's how they survived until veterancy).

I can only agree that laser paladins are too stronkkk, give them an AA laser turret and they're the most OP thing ever u.u

edit - oh and I did had a dozer repairing the turrets all the tim even in middle of battle.

Idk what else to add, I know, Paperside is rarely good at challenges but if we complete it on hard, we should get medals!

Another edit:
Seems like many challenges are bugged, maybe dev team couldn't solve scripts or something as mentioned. For exaple, in addition to Granger-no-power there is also Kwai attacking with very few tanks, infantry attacks are as in ZH, almost no other tanks other that few emperors and b.masters, but after some time he stops producing units completely making it just too easy while set to hard difficulty. o.O

This post has been edited by FabulousPug: 10 Nov 2015, 0:18

[RodentDung]

I was thinking the turrets are too expensive cause they are 300 for the base plus 1000 for the turret plus another 1000 or whatever for a powerplant so 2300 is enough for something else.

Kwai is a paper tiger. He is extremely weak in Shockwave which is weird. The original game made him strong on hard level but shockwave on hard makes kwai easy. I thought it was a money shortage after his supply dump runs out, but he has a hacker group and an internet cafe also making profits. This is a mystery. We still have to fight the camouflage terrorist who is tough in shockwave and the Tigress chinese woman who is incredibly powerful.

Maybe you are ready to crush people online now. You've reached elite status in the world of Generals.

You are ready to fight the greatest enemy of all which is yourself.... I mean the people online.

[FabulousPug]

I get overzealous in competition, eating myself up for every mistake and I mostly can't help it even when I know the other guy plays it like 5 years online more than me x_x

Anyway, I faced the stealth guy and won in the first attempt. He's pretty much the same as in ZH, differences are Frog artillery and rocket troopers popping around the base. Puts up a decent fight but not as strong as Thrax that's for sure. Next is Tao, didn't try it yet.. gonna be a pain to kill his nuke arty without choppers.

[RodentDung]

I beat the stealth thug with the chinese generals. It wasn't hard except for his scud and his underground tunneling attacks and the anthrax bomber which melted my base when I was Leung a few times.
His vehicles are dangerous in the first half of the battle until the bombers are in place and some gatling guns and AA tanks to stop that deadly anthrax bomber. That bomber is just as bad as a scud launch cause it kills everything on the ground and the gatling guns were destroyed by his buggies from long range so they could fly in. But Thrax is about 20 times stronger than the stealth thug. Thrax has the mail order advantage.

For the nuke general, you need to space out your base to accept the nukes without a problem. He has 6 nukes active I remember. The 2 left side nukes you can attack with ground forces but the 4 right side nukes need some GP weapons like grenades and A10s to destroy because it takes longer for ground forces to get there. You don't need cluster silos for that battle cause he's quite weak except for the nukes. Just use bombers and tanks to destroy his nuke trucks. And AA tanks to stop his choppers.

For online play, it is best to train yourself not to be angry about losing. That is just ego. After you lose, just sigh and say "Hai hai". That is Japanese and it means 'okay no worries' and people say that when other people or children are complaining loudly. And people online find out exploits and cheats that you don't know, so you even smart people lose because they don't want to cheat. Just don't play cheaters twice.

This post has been edited by RodentDung: 11 Nov 2015, 6:30

[FabulousPug]

I'll try the Tao challenge today. My plan is to space out building and defenses to slow down enemies while my Bradley group does the killing. Howitzers will be places on the northern hill to defend vs nuke artillery, the giant bunker there will destroy the rest. With 3 supplies and 2 oil derricks from the start, there should be little he could do to cripple me. Once again A10, bombs and MOAB will be taking out nuclear silos. Planes will be the bomber ones, to finish off his nukes and to clean stationary stuff on the way to his base, after that a tank aassault will crush everything red on the minimap.

I faced Tao as Leang on hard and it wasn't difficult, all he did was fire off a nuke and destroy 2 defensive buildings.

edit:
Before I forget to add; indeed, you have spoken wisely. Only times I truly have fun online in any game is when I don't care about winning, just to do my best and have fun.

another edit:
Tao was crushed as planned. Taking over all the resources around allowed me to produce whatever I wanted so I went with very few defenses, but turned my 3 war factory towards his attackers. While his Nuke cannons we shooting at my defences, some quick bradleys with hellfire drones drived close to eliminate them (or planes picked them off in the middle of the map). AA wasn't even needed, the Wraith and Bradley missiles did the job. It is possible to destroy his Nuke Silos without him even firing once, I did it using planes on the 3 in his main base after his AA defense was bombed and the 2 on the right side were taken care by planes+GP.
Could be good to just take out his Propaganda asap to cut him off nuke cannons for good - he didn't rebuild it. It's probably one of the easier challenges cause of the enormous amount of suplies close to the base and his weak attacks, the only trick is to bomb his nukes. When I was Leang, he actually launched his 1 nuke somewhere on the hill area, the fat bunker there suffered minor damage and a helicopter was destroyed - AI syndrome

This post has been edited by FabulousPug: 13 Nov 2015, 2:04

[RodentDung]

Sounds like you crushed Tao with ease. He is quite powerful if he gets his momentum up. I lost twice to him using other generals before beating him. He managed to roll off his 6 nukes on my base and his nuke trucks finished the job while choppers hung around adding to the grief. You got him early though. I almost feel sad he wasn't allowed to play at all.

Maybe you are gonna have an easy time of it until you meet the deadly Tigress who is about equal to Thrax for danger but she has more resilience I think cause Thrax's base doesn't have much depth but hers does.

[Rohan]

When I was Leang, he actually launched his 1 nuke somewhere on the hill area, the fat bunker there suffered minor damage and a helicopter was destroyed - AI syndrome

That's a bug in Tao's challenge. He will always fire one nuke in that area. So, don't build anything there.

[FabulousPug]

Tao's weakness is he doesn't send almost any armored units like tanks, his air can be repelled easily and his nuke trucks are unprotected. Unlike Tao, Thrax sends just. about everything he has all the time.. And. becaise of so much money all for yourself, even 3-4 dozers can constantly build stuff, including lots of planes to chew up his defenses and nuke silos.
Leang is next; I already had a feeling she's one not to be taken lightly.

EDIT:
Alright! The Paperside emerged victorious in all his challenges! As he has no rivals atm, he will return to his job as a developer of high tech papers which would hopefully endure 2 more shots before they're dead.
So, to deal with Leang I've bult 2 Clusters asap to keep her Gaia off my neck. I didn't expand, but built a modest base with lots of AA tanks by the Command Center and some Howtzers to kill attackers on the hill and the bridge. When I had several supply drop zones, I pushed with lots of stuff produced constantly from 2 war factories, to take the map and build war factories all over to support the push. After a MOAB cleaned the entrance to her base, the armor went in rampaging.
The next general was Alexander... VERY annoying challenge. Many Particle Cannons, pesky aircraft, chinook drops and very early "orbital bombardment" (the GP) were very frustrating to outlast. I gave up on tank assault tactics and instead again used an early Cluster combined with Grenades drop and A10 to take out her superweapons. After that I just bombed her to death, using Burton to snipe everything left (he actually outranges her defences with S&D strategy). The biggest problem against Alex is her very early Comanche rush right before the orbital tungsten shell bombardment (don't remember the exact name of it), which is hard to defend against at this point. The only way I managed it is to build a barracks with the first dozer and captured the 3 neutral AA turrets along the coast to kill the choppers... the bombing remained an irritation on my base till the end.

I'm thinking of Granger as my next general to try on Hard... I like planes cause perfect airstrikes look so cool. Also, I don't think he's perticulary powerful in general's challenges because of weak defences and awful armored units.
If I remember correctly... Thrax is his first challenge.... ....

This post has been edited by FabulousPug: 13 Nov 2015, 19:50

[RodentDung]

Golly you have become a god. You beat Leung. She is about the equal of Thrax, unless you can destroy her Gaia and have enough AA to stop the masses of choppers. The Alexander woman attacks with those choppers before you can even start. It is a cheapshot but you have to take it. Her base is very poorly defended so she is one of the weaker generals because she relies on the lasers and the narrow space for movement as defense.

Granger will be fun for the challenge. He is, I think, very weak compared to the strong Chinese and Alexander clans. Even his planes are weaker than some others but he has an absolutely deadly B1 bomber strike from off-board. I don't think the B1 bomber can be shot down even by many AA. Also he has one of the hated missile trucks - Hurricane. Against Thrax he might do okay if you get those planes and choppers out in big numbers. He has no tanks or mines so you fly or you die.

[FabulousPug]

Are you planning to go on a Hard challenge crusade as Granger or some other general?
I've beaten Thrax with Granger on Hard already, but it was far from easy..
I didn't destroy his Palace even and without stealthy choppers I'd be doomed. They were very useful as defense and could also attack the easter arms dealer. But the final assault was difficult cause Granger has so weak ground vehicles and Thrax's AA is formidable so that aircraft wasn't as useful as for defense. The only great thing is that Hurricane arty which did most of the killing while ecerything else on the ground was serving as a meat shield lol..

edit
I think I'll stick with Granger till I'm done. Probably the most frustrating challenge (after Thrax ofc) will be Leang. Since Granger has only weak missile-based AA it will be tough to defend. Choppers are also easy targets for her AA even without power in her base so I'll have to stick with super-fragile ground forces and lots of hurricanes. I find Hurricanes to be unbelievably good vs any group of enemies. His main battle tanks would. be good if their missile attack would be automatic, but as it is, it's useless cause there is no time to micro this in a big clash... Granger seems to be a very defensive faction in challenges...

I've tried the Salvage general vs Leang on hard; it was tough but I've succeeded in the end. Has some nice artillery which is similar to Howitzers but imo much better - can fire on the move and is cheaper.
Once I tried Infantry gen vs Granger and it was very hard to penetrate his base with infantry or vehicles because of his Tornado bombers; was a very long match (I didn't use superweapons).

Alexander blonde is imo the easiest one to use to complete all challenges because she can defend against everything and can strike where ever she wants (bombing GP, Enforcers, cheap and effective superweapons), Alpha Auroras really suck in Shockwave but other stuff is great.

Playing as the Stelth dude was interesting. stealthy bikes are great as defense vs artillery, and I like his stealth rocket snipers which were a great help at destroying some of Tao's nuclear silos.
I did also try with Kwai vs Thrax on Hard, and compared to Paperside, his tanks actually crushed the green postman it wasn't even funny.

Still I didn't find out which would be my favorite general, but close come the blonde and the stealthy guy.

This post has been edited by FabulousPug: 16 Nov 2015, 18:25

[RodentDung]

I think the same. Alexander is the easiest to play and the Chinese generals like Kwai are much easier at beating Thrax.

I haven't tried the evil terrorists yet. I think I tried the explosives one briefly but lost.
I like the Leung faction. But Alexander is my favorite for sure.

[FabulousPug]

From what I understand in this thread, Salvage general would very much suit your playstyle. He has really nice armored vehicles especially the Basilisk heavy tank, an equivalent to Overlord, one could say. Add the super Quad Tanks to that and you already have a formidable mix that can take on almost anything. Also has great artillery units. And probably the bast AA defences with great groud defense. You should cert ainly try it! Feel kinda OP

[RodentDung]

From what I understand in this thread, Salvage general would very much suit your playstyle. He has really nice armored vehicles especially the Basilisk heavy tank, an equivalent to Overlord, one could say. Add the super Quad Tanks to that and you already have a formidable mix that can take on almost anything. Also has great artillery units. And probably the bast AA defences with great groud defense. You should cert ainly try it! Feel kinda OP

Okay I will try Salvage. I've never played that clan. Basilisk tanks and quad tanks sound like my style for sure. What are you playing now? Did you finish the campaign as Granger?

This post has been edited by RodentDung: 1 Dec 2015, 3:40