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Rise of Europe
Nidmeister
post 23 Jun 2009, 15:59
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Which is why Russia would in fact be going in for the ECA airfields.
If they allow for European dominance in the skies, they would be laying their ground force at risk.
And the Berkut is infact rather powerful, I havent been able to playtest for a while, but afaik its counterparts, the Raptor and the MiG don't have any mounted cannons, they have to rely on their own payload and fly back to rearm. If the Berkut uses up its payload it can still use its cannons to mow any remaining threats down.
On top of that, it doesn't go down easily at all, and it even has a barrel roll feature to throw off incoming fire. It can practically fly past a gattling cannon almost unscathed.

This post has been edited by Nidmeister: 23 Jun 2009, 15:59


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CommanderJB
post 23 Jun 2009, 16:07
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We know that the European War opened with a mass Russian air raid carried out by strategic and tactical aviation against ECA defence assets. The key targets attacked were airfields, with the Russian general staff having concentrated their available resources into a largely successful attempt to deny the ECA their mainline air-superiority assets in order to allow the armoured columns (whose heavy AA is not the world's most readily mobile) to advance under air cover. One could even credit this air superiority (forcing the ECA to rely on artillery for ranged support) and the resultant availability of strike aircraft (which Russian forces then utilise in the pattern of 'cab-rank' airstrikes to aid their advance) with a large share of their victories, including Berlin. However, given a finite number of bombers and a limited range, what are you going to prioritise - frontal interceptor bases or rear-echelon transport wings?

This post has been edited by CommanderJB: 23 Jun 2009, 16:09


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Pickysaurus
post 23 Jun 2009, 16:17
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QUOTE (Nidmeister @ 23 Jun 2009, 12:59) *
Which is why Russia would in fact be going in for the ECA airfields.
If they allow for European dominance in the skies, they would be laying their ground force at risk.
And the Berkut is infact rather powerful, I havent been able to playtest for a while, but afaik its counterparts, the Raptor and the MiG don't have any mounted cannons, they have to rely on their own payload and fly back to rearm. If the Berkut uses up its payload it can still use its cannons to mow any remaining threats down.
On top of that, it doesn't go down easily at all, and it even has a barrel roll feature to throw off incoming fire. It can practically fly past a gattling cannon almost unscathed.


Requires marcoing though, which isn't always as easy as it sounds. I find the machine gun pretty limited, it seems to fire once and go back to base.


QUOTE (CommanderJB @ 23 Jun 2009, 13:07) *
We know that the European War opened with a mass Russian air raid carried out by strategic and tactical aviation against ECA defence assets. The key targets attacked were airfields, with the Russian general staff having concentrated their available resources into a largely successful attempt to deny the ECA their mainline air-superiority assets in order to allow the armoured columns (whose heavy AA is not the world's most readily mobile) to advance under air cover. One could even credit this air superiority (forcing the ECA to rely on artillery for ranged support) and the resultant availability of strike aircraft (which Russian forces then utilise in the pattern of 'cab-rank' airstrikes to aid their advance) with a large share of their victories, including Berlin. However, given a finite number of bombers and a limited range, what are you going to prioritise - frontal interceptor bases or rear-echelon transport wings?


I see, nobody knows the lore like the creators I8.gif
I guess the Russians have an advanced bombing airforce, which just isn't featured in ROTR (unless there happens to be a campaign)


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Nidmeister
post 23 Jun 2009, 16:25
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QUOTE (Pickysaurus @ 23 Jun 2009, 13:17) *
Requires marcoing though, which isn't always as easy as it sounds. I find the machine gun pretty limited, it seems to fire once and go back to base.

No micro required, you just click the icon along the command bar.
Not from my experience, it will keep firing at aerial targets, not so sure about ground targets.
If it stops, then you re-issue the attack command and it will carry out the cannon fire again.
It may be a pain, but it's still something that other superiority fighters lack.

This post has been edited by Nidmeister: 23 Jun 2009, 16:25


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Pickysaurus
post 23 Jun 2009, 16:55
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QUOTE (Nidmeister @ 23 Jun 2009, 13:25) *
No micro required, you just click the icon along the command bar.
Not from my experience, it will keep firing at aerial targets, not so sure about ground targets.
If it stops, then you re-issue the attack command and it will carry out the cannon fire again.
It may be a pain, but it's still something that other superiority fighters lack.


The way i play (vZH style) you give you planes an attack or defend order and move up your ground forces...
Although I am very air-power oriented. I work in waves rather than individual aircraft

This post has been edited by Pickysaurus: 23 Jun 2009, 16:56


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Nidmeister
post 23 Jun 2009, 17:04
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Yes, but you can still select a group of Berkuts and move them past enemy lines almost unscathed with a click of a single button, and the cannon still gives the Berkut the edge. The mod is not designed to fit around your playing style, or anyones for that matter. My argument here bieng that the Berkut is not in fact a weak aircraft, and Russia can still win air superiority.

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Pickysaurus
post 23 Jun 2009, 17:52
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QUOTE (Nidmeister @ 23 Jun 2009, 14:04) *
Yes, but you can still select a group of Berkuts and move them past enemy lines almost unscathed with a click of a single button, and the cannon still gives the Berkut the edge. The mod is not designed to fit around your playing style, or anyones for that matter. My argument here bieng that the Berkut is not in fact a weak aircraft, and Russia can still win air superiority.


Alright, well you have your opinions of the Berkut, and I have mine.
I didn't say it was suppose to fit my playing style. I just find it hard going to have to select the plane to have it dodge missiles. Guess it works out overall in the balance of things though. In the current BETA that's the only actual missile defence russia has.


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Destiny
post 23 Jun 2009, 18:44
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QUOTE (Nidmeister @ 23 Jun 2009, 21:04) *
My argument here bieng that the Berkut is not in fact a weak aircraft, and Russia can still win air superiority.

You're correct here, a Berkut going head-on with a Raptor one-on-one _usually_ means downing both fighters...and we know which faction cares for their...err...parachutes.


Edit: Uhhh...I sense Rise of Europe is trying to zombify itself and bite Rise of the Reds 8Ip.png

This post has been edited by Destiny: 23 Jun 2009, 18:50


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beefJeRKy
post 24 Jun 2009, 1:54
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The Russian Air Force is actually quite powerful but unfortunately not cost effective at all. If anything, their rotary craft was where it's at. The Hind and Hokum can make for a versatile (and deadly) combo but once again, it will cost you.
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post 24 Jun 2009, 2:03
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QUOTE (Pickysaurus @ 23 Jun 2009, 14:17) *
Requires marcoing though, which isn't always as easy as it sounds. I find the machine gun pretty limited, it seems to fire once and go back to base.

I see, nobody knows the lore like the creators I8.gif
I guess the Russians have an advanced bombing airforce, which just isn't featured in ROTR (unless there happens to be a campaign)


IIRC Rusia didnt hit all airports, as UK still has some of them operational, but i can remember if they were secret ones or something

It will be interesting to know how is the situation in France, Spain and Portugal as they are the part of Europe most distance from Rusia, then again i assume the Spanish aircraft will crash themselves again duh_worm.gif


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Shock
post 25 Jun 2009, 18:47
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when totally true to the real world it's not realistic to say that Russia took out all European jet airpower, but it's good enough for the fiction in the mod.


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Overdose
post 26 Jun 2009, 3:26
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We never implied all of the fixed wing aircraft were destroyed. However, enough of them were lost for them to stop being a commodity and are now used very sparingly. Although there are old aircraft locked up in bunkers, most of the pilots are dead as well. There are cases though of retired military pilots granting their services to the Resistance. This is however beyond the scope of what's playable in the game.


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Shiro
post 26 Jun 2009, 13:01
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Interestingly you posted a new possible tech building, a capturable airport, with this wink.gif Anyway as the story went on in Z:H, when China defeated the GLA, why did they leave Europe alone later on?
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Overdose
post 26 Jun 2009, 17:21
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http://rotr.swr-productions.com/storyline.php

Has the answers you seek.


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Shiro
post 27 Jun 2009, 14:55
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Seems like I overwent it then, have to read it now. Thank you Overdose.
Edit: Seems like I found an interesting mistake in the part after the first picture:
[...]NSAU member states do not trust themselves[...] This is hard if you cannot trust yourself, is it not?^^

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CommanderJB
post 27 Jun 2009, 19:38
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That's not a mistake, it's entirely intentional; I'm sure Overdose, who wrote it, will settle this himself, but as I understand it the general idea is that the South American states have deep political differences which mean that they are unlikely to allow peacekeeping troops from each other into their own territories. The preferred option, then, is Russia, who has a strong military-technical and trade relationship with many of them, plus considerable military resources to spare.


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Shiro
post 28 Jun 2009, 0:34
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Well, when I though it should be 'each other' instead of 'themselves', I was probably mistaken. If it was indeed intentional, I am sorry.
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Overdose
post 28 Jun 2009, 2:07
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It is exactly as JB has put it. You are however correct it should have been 'each other'. I apologize. My first language is very different from english and sometimes there are little errors that slip by unnoticed.


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BlitzGeneral
post 28 Jun 2009, 4:29
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QUOTE (Overdose @ 25 Jun 2009, 23:26) *
There are cases though of retired military pilots granting their services to the Resistance. This is however beyond the scope of what's playable in the game.


My fanfiction sense is tingling.
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oo6red
post 28 Jun 2009, 6:20
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QUOTE (Nidmeister @ 23 Jun 2009, 4:59) *
If the Berkut uses up its payload it can still use its cannons to mow any remaining threats down.

Perhaps it is something already reported, but I have had an issue where aircraft still patrol the skies, completely unarmed. I guess this makes sense for the SU-47, with its cannon, but the same thing happens with F-22s and MiG-1.44s as well.

QUOTE (CommanderJB @ 27 Jun 2009, 8:38) *
as I understand it the general idea is that the South American states have deep political differences which mean that they are unlikely to allow peacekeeping troops from each other into their own territories.

This seems likely, as even now South American states tend to have major differences. Any organisation like UNAS would compound these issues, to be sure.


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Suvorov
post 28 Jun 2009, 16:17
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I have never had this problem... wierd huh.gif

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Shiro
post 29 Jun 2009, 12:54
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This is quite an annoying bug, because it sometimes happens the Raptor fires its missiles but not its laser designator (which is a dummy weapon). But it never happened for me with the MiG.
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